Debates of Oct. 18th, 2018

Corrections and Conditional Release Act

[Harold Albrecht, Conservative, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

Mr. Speaker, a pilot project was recently announced that indicated there would be a needle exchange program available in certain prisons across Canada. One of those prisons is in my area, in the Waterloo region. It is the Grand Valley Institution for Women.

We know the correctional officers at these facilities are very much opposed to the idea of a needle exchange program, and that they were basically not consulted on having the program implemented. Now that we have the body scan and a zero drug policy in prisons, will the Liberals finally discontinue their misguided needle exchange program?

Also, I would like the member to tell me if the Union of Canadian Correctional Officers was consulted on Bill C-83 as it relates to the safety of our correctional officers, who serve Canada so well in the work they do.

[Karen McCrimmon]

Mr. Speaker, I agree with the member. The work correctional officers do is something that is probably underappreciated by a great number of Canadians. They work very hard, and their days are very demanding.

When we talk about issues like needle exchange we are trying to look at things based on harm reduction, on safety and on the evidence we have seen. This is an issue that will require more discussion in order for people to feel comfortable with the decisions being made.

However, when we are basing the decisions on science, on evidence and on the overall safety of institutions, we think it is the right way forward.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Mr. Speaker, if offenders walk into our prison system with a bachelor of offences and walk out with a Ph.D. of offences, then our prison system has failed them.

We know that administrative segregation has caused deaths in our prison system. Of course, we are talking about the case of Ms. Ashley Smith. I would like the parliamentary secretary to explain the key differences between administrative segregation and the SIU system we are proposing.

[Karen McCrimmon]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member has identified the crux of the matter. This is transformational change away from administrative segregation, where offenders were in their cells for 22 hours a day, with no access to programming, to visitors or to mental health treatment.

We know that 70% of the inmates in our institutions today suffer from some kind of mental illness. We feel that if we do not address these mental health concerns before inmates are released back into society, their chances of successfully rehabilitating back into society will be much diminished.

That is why we made this transformational change toward a structured intervention unit, where people still have access to the rehabilitative training that will give them the best chance for a better future.

[Harold Albrecht, Conservative, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

Mr. Speaker, my question will be very short and the answer could be even shorter. Has the government consulted our correctional officers on the implementation of the bill as it relates to their safety?

[Karen McCrimmon]

Mr. Speaker, all I can say to answer that is I have not been part of that process, but I can get back to the member with an answer to his question.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I will be sharing my time today with my remarkable colleague from Cariboo—Prince George. I use the word “remarkable” because the word “incredible” has been overused for him recently.

I am proud to speak today to Bill C-83, which amends the Corrections and Conditional Release Act and another act. This is also known as another case of Liberals putting interests of criminals ahead of everyone else, with little thought put into it. It should not be confused with Liberal Bill C-71, or Bill C-75, or Bill C-28, or any other myriad number of bills in which they have put criminal rights ahead of those of regular citizens.

We all know the horrific story of the case of Ashley Smith and her unfortunate death. That never should have happened within our prison system, and the government should make moves to prevent situations like that from recurring. However, it should not impose a poorly thought-out, outright ban on segregation.

There are some good parts to the bill and I congratulate the government on it. I support the idea of body scans to prevent contraband and drugs coming into prisons, but it should be extended to everyone entering the prison, not just certain people. I also like that it gives more consideration to indigenous offenders.

But, and it is a big but, there are a few key points in the bill that would directly impact the safety and security of our corrections officers and those who need segregation for their own safety. This is another example of the government's obsession with making criminals' lives easier while making our front-line officers' jobs more dangerous.

I want to talk about the reality of the most common use of segregation. Inmates who commit crimes in prison do not always get the segregation. Very often, it is the victims who are segregated to protect them from those inmates. It is often used as a means of ensuring the safety of the targeted inmate from further assault, often because the target does not want to name the inmate who assaulted them. This means the assaults continue and the inmate who went into a segregation unit has to eventually reintegrate somewhere else in another unit or institution, or even in another region in the country.

It is relatively uncommon that segregation is ordered as a disciplinary sanction. In fact, most inmates view segregation time as a holiday rather than a consequence, especially since they must receive all their possessions, such as a television and their other belongings on their property card, within 24 hours of admission.

A report from CBC that came out last April quoted the Ontario Public Service Employees Union as saying that segregation isn't the deterrent it once was, because the maximum time inmates can spend in segregation has been halved and increased privileges for those in segregation mean that inmates are no longer as skittish about being sent there. It also confirmed that in fact there are not enough segregation units, at least in Ontario, because most are being used by inmates who have mental health issues.

That is the provincial system, but it correlates to the federal system as well. It leaves violent inmates out in the general population, where they can continue to commit assaults against other inmates and corrections officers themselves.

Another CBC report quotes an officer as saying, “Where [the more violent inmates] used to be in separate containers, now they're all in one bag, and we're just waiting for one to go off. And that sets the rest of them off and you end up with murders, stabbings, slashing, and officer injuries higher than ever.”

Another officer is quoted as saying, “The inmates, they can get away with a lot more than they used to in the past, and that contributes to the growing violence and the crisis in corrections.”

As I mentioned, with previous changes to segregation policies the maximum time in segregation has already been cut in half. Also, the increase in privileges available to those in segregation means it is not as strong a deterrent as it used to be. All removing segregation does, especially disciplinary segregation, is soften reprisals for bad behaviour. Inmates know there is one less tool for correctional officers to use to maintain order and ensure their own safety and that of other inmates.

A CBC report from September 2017 indicated that the stricter limits on segregation have led to a massive upswing in inmate assaults. Between 2012 and 2017, the number of violent repeat offences after leaving segregation increased 50%.

Statistics released recently for corrections in Ontario show close to 800 reported incidents in 2016. By halfway through 2017, the last time we had the numbers available, there were almost as many violent incidents in our prisons. The report quotes Jason Godin, president of the Union of Canadian Correctional Officers, who pointed out that segregation is a tool for a reason and that restrictive policies only transfer the problem of violence.

The creation and integration of structured intervention units makes violent and non-violent inmates equal, regardless of the quality of their conduct while they serve their time. They get access to four hours per day outside their cells from the structured units, and they also get two hours of “significant human contact”. This is going to require significant increases in resources for the officers, but there is no money set aside for this.

Now, every time someone is moved into segregation, or out of segregation for their two hours out in the open, it requires two officers to accompany them. That is for the safety of the officers, to ensure they always have enough manpower to protect themselves. Where is this money going to come from?

If we look at the government's departmental plan signed by the Minister of Public Safety, allowing for inflation it is actually cutting 8.8% of the funding to Correctional Service Canada over the next four years. Where is this money coming from?

I am sure the minister did not even look at the plan before he signed off on it, and I am sure my colleagues across the way have not read the plan either. It actually calls for a reduction in officers in Correctional Service Canada over the next years, but it is going to increase the workload and the costs of these units with what money? We do not know.

The officers themselves are left with one less tool that allows them to deter assaults and violence from taking place in the cellblocks. Corrections officers already face a host of challenges. Even though it is their choice to work in these jobs, keep in mind that these men and women are still in a prison themselves. They are subjected to the same environment that the inmates are.

Statistics from a 2018 report prepared for the Union of Canadian Correctional Officers show that between 60% and 65% of correctional officers report their work has a negative impact on their life away from work. A substantial proportion of correctional officers, about 75%, report that the psychological demands of their job have increased in the last five years. Nearly 55% of long-serving officers report that their physical ability to properly do their work is worse or much worse in the last few years. The report summarizes:

[T]here is a particularly poor fit between interest in work and the psychological and mental disposition of [the] officers...on the one hand, and the environment and working conditions set out and maintained by CSC, on the other. Such a poor fit cannot go on forever, nor be ignored, other than to the detriment of both the correctional officers...as well as public interest as embodied in CSC's mandate and social mission.

I want to look at an another area where the government has failed our corrections officers. They are one of the main victims of the Liberal Phoenix fiasco. Roughly 85% of corrections officers across the country have been affected by Phoenix. This is because many of them are shift workers with irregular schedules that require manual entry into the system, something the government could have prevented had it not botched the entire rollout.

In fact, the Treasury Board was specifically told this was a failure in the Phoenix system when it was doing the pre-testing, yet the government chose to ignore it, just like the President of the Treasury Board ignored the Gartner report when it advised not to proceed with Phoenix.

I find it very amusing that the President of the Treasury Board justifies his meddling in the Davie supply ship contract on behalf of Irving as part of his job, but apparently it was not part of his job to act on the Gartner report on Phoenix, which, by the way, he commissioned himself.

The UCCO president has already called for help for its members because, like many public servants, they are renegotiating their mortgages and taking out loans to ensure they can keep a roof over their heads because of the pay problems. Unfortunately, we do not see an end in sight for those suffering from the Phoenix pay problems.

I want to talk about the government's priorities. I mentioned before that its priorities seems to be on criminals, not on average Canadians. Page 210 of last year's budget proposes $21.4 million for the mental health needs of RCMP officers and the same amount for the mental health needs of federal inmates. There are a lot more RCMP officers than there are inmates. For the average RCMP officer, the people putting their lives on the line every day and fighting for us, we have from the government $1,100 per officer for mental health. For prisoners, it is $1,400. Where is the justice?

Of 1,400 words in the CSC's much-ballyhooed mandate letter, the first time a corrections services lead has had a mandate letter, there were 24 words on victims and 52 on the workers. Those 52 words on the workers included such gems as, “I encourage you to instill within CSC a culture of ongoing self-reflection.”

There are the government's priorities in a nutshell: more money for criminals, less for the RCMP and for our valued officers in the prisons. Perhaps it is time for self-reflection on the issue.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I have heard the Leader of the Opposition say that he would have negotiated a better deal, but that same member could not even negotiate with his own caucus member, which resulted in the People's Party of Canada, so welcome to that.

Getting back to the facts, is the member opposed to body scanners in prison? Is that what I am hearing? He is opposed to body scanners in prison and is going to vote against this bill to make more equipment available for our prison officers. Is that what I am hearing on the other side?

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I serve with this member on committee. We generally get along. However, that is a silly question. Twice now he has sat in this House and listened to members on this side of the House say that they agree with the idea of body scanners. In fact, I sat here and congratulated the idea of body scanners, yet this gentlemen stands and asks why I am against body scanners. It is very clear he is not paying attention, just like the current government is not paying attention to the needs of our officers in the correctional services industry.

[Harold Albrecht, Conservative, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

Mr. Speaker, on this side of the House I am glad there is someone who is standing up on the side of victims, because clearly the other side is more concerned about the criminals than they are about the victims.

Previously today, on two occasions, I asked members of the governing party whether or not they had consulted with the corrections officers with respect to the implementation of this bill. The first time I received no answer. The second time I received an answer from the parliamentary secretary, no less, who said she was not sure. That concerns me. If the parliamentary secretary is not aware as to whether or not negotiations, or consultations at least, went on with the corrections officers' union, that is a huge concern.

I have a quote from the president of the Union of Canadian Correctional Officers, who said, “At...[the Regional Psychiatric Centre] we...had...100 assaults on staff in 12 months.” It is very troubling to me that our corrections officers are put in that kind of a situation where 100 assaults per year occur.

Does my colleague really believe that this idea of not allowing segregation will make our correctional officers more or less safe?

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Mr. Speaker, we have spoken to several correctional officers. Unfortunately, they do not want to come forward because they are afraid. That is one more reason why the current government should update the whistleblower act, as we have asked. The correctional officers made it clear that the statistics show that segregation is a tool that can be used. It is very clear that it had been used incorrectly in a couple of cases, and those cases should be addressed. However, our focus has to be on the protection of our CSC officers. They are under siege. They are having mental health issues. Nothing in this bill addresses them, but addresses the health and well-being of the prisoners. The mandate from the government continues to tell the head of the CSC to focus on the health and welfare of the prisoners, but not the officers themselves who are there protecting average Canadians. This bill has a couple of good things, but goes nowhere close to addressing the real issues we are facing today.

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

Mr. Speaker, I commend my friend from Edmonton West for his speech. I can truthfully say that I listen to every word of all of his speeches as they are so well done and well researched. He cites facts and figures. He is a very credible member of Parliament.

I am going to take a bit of a different approach here. I would like to ask my friend from Edmonton West what it is about the Liberal DNA that always blames the victims and never assigns personal responsibilities to the criminals themselves. To the Liberals, people are criminals because it is society's fault, it is how they were brought up or it is who they are. They never assign personal responsibility. We Conservatives believe in personal responsibility and accountability for one's actions. Can my friend from Edmonton West explain this Liberal mindset?

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I wish I could explain the Liberal mindset. Experts have tried and they cannot figure it out. However, I will comment on the Liberals' focus, the wrong focus.

I have the Correctional Service Canada department plan. It lists about 40 or 50 priorities. Not one single priority of the current government lists any safety issues for our corrections services officers. There is not one to protect them. However, there are 50 or so to improve the lives of inmates. That is wrong.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to start off this intervention by setting the situation we are faced with today.

Imagine a time when we call murder a “bad practice.” Imagine being at a point in time where we cannot use the word “illegal” for those who cross our borders illegally. It is now “irregular”. Imagine our government of day actually paying convicted terrorists $10.5 million for pain and suffering. Imagine a time when our government reaches out to a terrorist who, at one point, bragged about playing soccer with the heads of those he fought against, an ISIS terrorist, who bragged at one time about playing soccer with the heads of those they captured and decapitated.

I offer this because this is where are at, at this point. We see, time and time again, the government, our colleagues across the way, continuing to go on, “merrily, merrily, life is but a dream”. It goes down the way, all rainbows and sunshine. It is hug-a-thug.

Imagine a time when we are moving a convicted murderer, one who had been sentenced for society's most heinous crime of kidnapping and killing an eight-year-old, to a healing lodge part way through their sentence, not behind bars, but having a key to their own condo, if you will, free to come and go as they please within that area. Imagine a time when we always err on the side of the criminal rather than that of the victim.

Imagine a time when a convicted murderer can claim PTSD from the murder that he committed and receive treatment for PTSD before veterans and first responders.

That is where we are with Bill C-83. Before our colleagues across the way say, “The Conservatives are so against these body scans and different elements of this piece of legislation”, we are for providing the tools for our front-line workers every step of the way so that they can be safe. We are for providing victims and their families the rights and the tools so that they can remain whole, so that they are not revictimized at every step of the way.

Bill C-83 is about abolishing segregation. Oftentimes in the movies and in prison slang, segregation is referred to as “the hole”. Maybe that is how we got here. Maybe that is how this came to be. The Liberals, in the ways they dream things up, actually thought it was a hole we were putting people in. That is not true. It is a cell, no different than others.

As a matter of fact, somebody who spent a long period of time in segregation, one of our country's most notorious serial killers, Clifford Robert Olson still managed to take advantage of the situation. A reporter who visited him at one point remarked that he was healthy, that he even had a tan. Here is a guy who raped and murdered children in my province of British Columbia, and maybe even in other areas.

Segregation is not just for the safety of our front-line officers. It is also for the safety of those who are incarcerated. One of our colleagues mentioned that in interviewing somebody who has been incarcerated and spent a majority of their time in segregation that they preferred that, that they knew if they were out in general population that they probably would not last very long.

I actually would like to name some of the folks in our prison system who are housed in segregation and who the government is proposing to allow out of segregation, such as Paul Bernardo who has just been denied parole again. He is known to have lured young women, torturing, raping and murdering them with his then girlfriend, Karla Homolka. He actually murdered her own sister. Other inmates in segregation are Robert Pickton, who is a serial killer in my province of British Columbia, Renee Acoby, John Greene, Andrew Gulliver and Christopher Newhook.

Again, as I mentioned earlier, there is probably one of our most notorious serial killers, Clifford Robert Olson. I had an opportunity to speak with some of the arresting officers in his case and those persons who were charged with guarding him in his cell. He bragged incessantly and wanted to talk about those crimes. He was diabolical. He was sick.

Segregation provides a disciplinary administrative tool that both keeps those who are incarcerated protected, but also protects front-line workers. Is that not what we are here to do, protect society and those who have been charged with protecting society, keeping them safe both physically and mentally?

Through the course of my work in building Bill C-211 and then getting it passed in June of this year, I worked closely with correctional services. Very often, correctional guards and correctional officers are not seen as first responders, yet they perform those duties every day. They are seeing the worst of society at their very worst, while providing medical and life-saving treatment almost on a daily basis. They also have to guard those individuals and their safety is always at risk. Imagine being a guard in charge of a unit and there are 40 of society's worst criminals, yet that guard is alone.

The president of the union of Correctional Services of Canada recently said that in his centre in the course of the last 12 months there had been 100 violent incidents against his officers.

I have also learned that the government is approving a needle exchange program where the guards are to give the inmates needles and spoons to cook drugs and then go back to their cells, unbelievably. There is no onus on the prisoners; when they come up for parole, they are not required to report that they had been using in prison. Therefore, yes, we do agree that we should have full body scanners, not only for prisoners or their guests, but also for guards. I believe that would make everyone safe.

How unbelievable is it that we are now going to give needles and cooking spoons? I do not mean ladles for cooking soup, but cooking spoons for drugs, to use drugs, then allow them to go back to their cells and expect a guard to go into the cell to do some form of administrative management or security search, not knowing whether there is a needle there with some form of bodily fluid.

When the union heard about Bill C-83, it sent letters to the minister outlining its concerns. Union representatives were worried about segregation and emphasized to the minister the importance of this tool for correctional officers. They brought up their concern over the prison needle exchange and suggested rather than doing that, the minister focus on the resources to treat inmates with infectious diseases instead. They came at this in a reasonable way and offered solutions, yet they were not listened to. They were pooh-poohed. As a matter of fact, the minister thanked them for their time and then went forward in crafting this bill.

We are against the bill as a whole. We are not against certain elements of it. I would urge the government and the minister to reconsider Bill C-83.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, I do not think the Conservatives are surprising anyone when they say they are against the legislation. They have this Stephen Harper mentality, that Conservative spin, as if they are tough on crime and they are the only defenders of victims. Progressive legislation of this nature would prevent future victims.

Some countries around the world recognize that certain things can be done To allow for a better system, and we see that, whether it is indigenous concerns through some of the changes being proposed, or body cavity checks through technology or screening or different courses that will be provided, even for those in segregation.

Most people would acknowledge that Bill C-83 is progressive legislation. We need to move forward on this. The Conservatives want to stay in the past. They believe that by standing on the hilltop yelling “We're for victims”, they will get the votes. They should look at this legislation, as well as how the world is evolving, and recognize this.

When will the Conservatives look at what other jurisdictions are doing to move progressively on this file?

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

Mr. Speaker, let us talk about the past. Something came up over the course of this summer. Let us talk about turning our eyes toward the victim. When the Prime Minister was accused of a groping incident 18 years ago, he had a chance to apologize. I will take no lessons from the member across the way.

I asked time and again of that member and all of his colleagues whether they shared the same sentiment as the Prime Minister; that female victims of violence might sometimes experience that violence, that situation, differently than their male counterparts. I have asked that of them and not one of them have answered that. Not one of them stood up for those victims of violence.

The Prime Minister failed to apologize and our colleague across the way continues to stand up for him. That is shameful.

[Matthew Dubé, NDP, Beloeil—Chambly, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for his speech.

In the speech I delivered earlier today, I was able to illustrate our concerns over the changes that are being made and the fact that administrative segregation is an abusive practice that has been overused.

I would like to focus on one aspect of my colleague's speech because he raised a very important point. Far too often, correctional officers are forgotten, for example when we look at the repercussions of PTSD on public safety officers. The committee tabled a unanimous report, and I know that the hon. member also made an effort to change this through his bill. I thank him and commend him.

Those are the positive things, and here comes the negative. I asked a number of my Conservative colleagues how we are supposed to ensure safety at the institutions when the Conservatives closed two penitentiaries when they were in power. What is more, their bill increased costs by $250 million in one year, and they made cuts of nearly $300 million between 2012 and 2015.

How do they reconcile the reality of the guards' safety with the reality of the cuts?

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I have the utmost respect for our hon. colleague across the way. In fact, I worked closely with him during the work on my Bill C-211. He knows I am passionate about ensuring that our part-time workers, our first responders get the help they need whenever they need it and for however long they need it, whether it be correctional officers, police officers, firefighters, dispatch officers, our veterans or our military personnel, those front-line workers who experience human tragedy every day.

I was not part of the previous government, but I will offer this. My hon. colleague should be focusing his attention across the way rather than on what was done in the past. Let us see how we can move forward and get the bill amended to include front-line officers.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Mr. Speaker, it is an honour to rise today to speak to this very important legislation.

I come from a part of the country that has six penitentiary facilities in the immediate areas. It used to be seven before the former Conservative government closed one of them.

People in my riding take great pride in the work that our correctional officers do. We regard the work they do in their role of rehabilitating and reintegrating inmates into society to be an extremely serious one. From the guards to the parole officers, from program staff to medical professionals, correctional employees work hard around the clock, in challenging environments, to keep our institutions safe and to support effective rehabilitation, which ultimately protects Canadian communities.

Correctional officers and workers represent a professional workforce of nearly 18,000 employees, all engaged in the success of the corrections system and the fulfillment of the mandate of Correctional Service of Canada. That is complemented by the nearly 6,000 volunteers in the institutions and in the community, not to mention the elders, chaplains and many other unsung heroes. When people who have broken the law return safely to society and to our communities, that is a testament to their work and it is essential to the safety of our communities. Our number one priority is the safety of Canadians.

This summer, I had the opportunity to go on a tour of the closed facility in the Kingston area, the former Kingston Penitentiary. We had an opportunity to hear from various former and retired correctional officers. Through that tour, I learned a great deal about their dedication to our justice system, but also the many dangers they faced in the safety aspects of their jobs. That is why I applaud the efforts of the government and I am supportive of correctional employees and the work they do in ensuring the federal correctional institutions provide a safe and secure environment for staff and inmates.

Within the secure environment, effective rehabilitative interventions reduce the risk of reoffending and help keep our communities safe. The goal is to have fewer repeat offenders, fewer victims and ultimately safer communities. That is why the mandate letters to the Minister of Justice and the Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness include addressing gaps in service, particularly to vulnerable populations, including indigenous peoples and those with mental illness, throughout our criminal justice system.

The government has also demonstrated a commitment to rehabilitation through the reopening of prison farms, which I can attest is happening in my riding. Prison farms provide prisoners meaningful work at farms at the end of their sentences. Farms teach inmates skills in various agricultural fields, such as heavy machinery operation, food handling and dairy operation. Even if inmates do not go on to a career in agriculture, practical skills and certifications earned through farms will apply for future jobs. In fact, data demonstrated that prison farms increased the likelihood of employability once inmates were released.

The government has shown a commitment to improving our correctional system by making rehabilitation possible again and by enhancing the safety of prison workers. This is a new, bold approach to federal corrections. It will protect the safety of staff and those in their custody by allowing offenders to be separated as required, while ensuring those offenders receive more effective rehabilitative programming as well as interventions and mental health support.

Under this bill, the practice of administrative segregation will become a thing of the past. The corrections system will have a new tool to manage inmates who pose a safety risk in the form of structured intervention units, or SIUs. Inmates in SIUs will have at least four hours a day outside their cells, instead of the two hours under the current segregation system. They will have a minimum of two hours of meaningful interaction with other people, including staff, volunteers, elders, chaplains and other compatible inmates. They will have access to structured interventions to address the underlying behaviour that led to their placement in the SIU. These will include programs in mental health care tailored to their needs.

Offenders may be placed in an SIU when there are reasonable grounds to believe they pose a risk to the safety of any persons, including themselves, or the security of the institution. An inmate's assignment to the SIU would be subject to a robust internal review process. By the fifth working day after movement to an SIU, the warden would determine if the inmate should remain there, taking into account factors such as the inmate's correctional plan and medical condition.

I forgot to mention at the beginning of my speech, Mr. Speaker, that I will be splitting my time with the member for Toronto—Danforth.

If an inmate remains in the SIU, subsequent reviews would happen after 30 days by the warden and every 30 days thereafter by the commissioner of corrections. Reviews could also be triggered by a medical professional at any time. In fact, strengthening health care is a big part of the legislation. In an SIU, inmates would be visited by a registered health professional at least once a day.

Bill C-83 also affirms that the Correctional Service has the obligation to support health care professionals and their autonomy and clinical independence. The bill provides for patient advocacy services to help ensure offenders receive the health care they need. Clearly, an offender in good physical and mental health is more likely to achieve successful rehabilitation.

The bill represents a giant leap forward for our corrections system. The proposals are proactive and sensible, with public and institutional safety at their core. We should all want to ensure that federal correctional institutions provide a safe and secure environment, one that is conducive to inmate rehabilitation, staff safety and the protection of the public.

Eliminating administrative segregation and creating SIUs represents a landmark shift in our approach to corrections. I look forward to continuing to work with the government, with colleagues in the chamber, and the many people who work within the corrections system to continue advancing the objective of enhancing safety and security through effective interventions and treatment.

As I have said, nearly 18,000 corrections workers and 6,000 volunteers across the country do a remarkable job in what are often very difficult circumstances and harsh environments. They deserve to carry out their work in a safe and more secure environment and they deserve to be better supported in their goal of better correctional outcomes.

On all fronts, Bill C-83 would answer those calls. I call on all members of the House to join me in supporting the bill.

[Harold Albrecht, Conservative, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

Mr. Speaker, we heard our colleague reference the importance of our correctional officers and the work they do, and I could not agree more.

Earlier today, on two occasions, I asked government members whether meaningful consultations had occurred with corrections officers. To this point, after a number of hours, we have no answer to that. I wonder if my colleague could answer this. Was meaningful consultation entered into with correctional officers? We need to ensure that they are on side and that their safety is not put in jeopardy because of the bill's implementation.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Mr. Speaker, there is always a certain degree of consultation that goes on in the preparation of a bill, but the bulk of the consultation comes through a bill going to a committee and a committee doing its work, talking to the stakeholders, reporting back to the House and then going through the same process in the Senate.

After hearing what has been coming from the other side of the House, it is quite clear that the Conservatives believe in a justice system that involves locking them up and throwing away the key. On this side of the House, we believe in rehabilitation and reintegration into society. We know that the majority of people who go into a prison will come out on the other end one day and return to society. We want to ensure they are ready to come back into our society and be productive members of our communities.

[Matthew Dubé, NDP, Beloeil—Chambly, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I want to ask my colleague the same question I asked the minister. The answers remain incomplete, non-existent in fact. It is the notion of oversight and recourse.

If we look at the corrections investigator, the Canadian Association of Elizabeth Fry Societies, the John Howard Society, Senator Kim Pate, who has worked in this field for a very long time and knows far more than any of us about some of these important issues, all those intervenors agree on one thing. They agree that the bill and the current system lack any kind of ability to have any kind of recourse in the event that abuse takes place in solitary confinement. We know that is the case when we see the disproportionate representation of vulnerable Canadians or when we see the number of suicides committed while in solitary confinement.

My question for my friend is this. Does he truly believe that the warden and the commissioner having the final say on whether solitary confinement should continue is really any kind of proper oversight to ensure that mental health issues are being properly protected and that inmates are being properly rehabilitated? He spoke of those principles, and I agree with him, but I do not feel the bill would do anything to address that. Before we hear that component, we are not actually getting rid of solitary confinement. This SIU thing is just a smokescreen.

Understanding that it is still the same reality, should we not have a more robust review and recourse process in place?

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I will start by saying that I am very familiar with the Elizabeth Fry Society and the John Howard Society. I visited them when I was mayor of Kingston, in addition to visiting many other facilities. I saw the tremendous work they do helping inmates to reintegrate into our communities.

We are seeing a stark difference, which we quite often see in the House. The Conservatives are telling us that we are doing way too much, and the NDP are telling us that we are just not doing enough. At the end of the day, it is important that we put the right measures in place to give inmates the support they need to be rehabilitated and reintegrated into society, but at the same time, we need to make sure we are protecting, and have the right safeguards in place for, the people who are taking care of them.

It is a balancing act. I am looking forward to seeing how this comes back from committee, where some of the suggestions the member made can come forward and possible amendments be made. The deliberative process that we go through in the House is to fish out exactly the kind of questions he is talking about.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, could my colleague expand on why it is important that we bring forward legislation of this nature? There is indeed a high recidivism rate and, as much as possible, we want to allow for successful reintegration into society.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Mr. Speaker, it is important because Liberals believe in reintegration and successful rehabilitation of inmates.

We believe that the vast majority of people who go into a facility can be properly rehabilitated and reintegrated into society. However, the most important thing is to give the necessary tools to those who are rehabilitating our inmates so they can be successful at the rehabilitative process.