House of Commons Hansard #280 of the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was budget.

Topics

Industry, Science and TechnologyCommittees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

April 17th, 2018 / 10:05 a.m.

Liberal

Dan Ruimy Liberal Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC

Mr. Speaker, I have the honour to present, in both official languages, the 11th report of the Standing Committee on Industry, Science and Technology, entitled “Broadband Connectivity in Rural Canada: Overcoming the Digital Divide”, in relation to the motion adopted on Tuesday, March 27. I am also proud to announce that it is a unanimous report.

Pursuant to Standing Order 109, the committee requests that the government table a comprehensive response to this report.

Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner's ReportRoutine Proceedings

10:05 a.m.

Conservative

Candice Bergen Conservative Portage—Lisgar, MB

moved:

That the report of the Ethics Commissioner, entitled “The Trudeau Report”, tabled on Monday, January 29, 2018, be concurred in.

Mr. Speaker, I will be sharing my time with the hon. member for Calgary Shepard.

I am rising today to speak to the former ethics commissioner's report called “The Trudeau Report”, which found that the Prime Minister had breached the Conflict of Interest Act in four separate ways.

Regrettably, at this point, I have just 10 minutes to speak, even though there is so much to be said. Let me start by summarizing why we are here and what has happened to get us to this point.

Two Christmases ago, right after the election, Christmas holidays were here and the Prime Minister dropped off the radar. This was a Prime Minister who had just been elected on a campaign of openness and transparency, but he left for somewhere and would not tell anyone where he went. If he had just been away on a holiday, maybe on a beach somewhere, he probably would have told the media and Canadians that he was on a holiday with his family, but for some reason he was incredibly secretive and did not want anyone to know where he had gone on his Christmas holiday.

Some enterprising members of the parliamentary press gallery tracked down the Prime Minister and found out he was in the Bahamas. No doubt egged on by the Prime Minister's secrecy over the whole thing, these journalists kept digging. It turned out the Prime Minister was not just in the Bahamas at a resort somewhere that he had paid for, having a little holiday with his family. He was hanging out on a billionaire's beautiful island, a private Caribbean island owned by the Aga Khan.

The Aga Khan does some very good work. He presides over organizations such as the Global Centre for Pluralism, which has had associations and dealings, financial and otherwise, with the Government of Canada for decades. Again, the Aga Khan does very good work in Canada and around the world, but that is irrelevant to the point we are discussing today. The point is that the Aga Khan, a good individual who does very good work for Canadians, gets a whole lot of money from the Government of Canada to do this work, and the Prime Minister of Canada was on his island accepting a free vacation from him.

What the report told us is that this was not the first time the Prime Minister had taken a free vacation from the Aga Khan on the island. In fact, during Christmas 2014, prior to being Prime Minister, he was there for a holiday. In March 2016, family members were there for a holiday. Then during Christmas 2016, there was the private island holiday yet again. Wow, what an amazing so-called friendship to have. That is the other interesting thing about the report. For a year, the Prime Minister was saying that this was a holiday accepted from a very good friend, but the Ethics Commissioner's report told us that in fact they had not had contact for 30 years. He just seemed to be a wonderful, long-lost old friend whom the Prime Minister was somehow reacquainted with after he became Prime Minister, while the Aga Khan was doing a whole bunch of business with the Government of Canada.

The point is, and that is most likely why the Prime Minister and his staff took such a posture of great secrecy, that we have ethics rules in place that are meant to prevent prime ministers, ministers, or even parliamentarians without executive responsibilities from doing things that put them in a conflict of interest. These are things like accepting free vacations from those who do multi-million dollar transactions with the government, accepting free rides in their private helicopters, not recusing oneself from discussions where the opportunity exists to improperly further the other person's interests, and failing to arrange one's own affairs in a manner to avoid those conflicts of interest. Those were the exact four areas where the Prime Minister broke the ethics rules. These rules are in place to stop a prime minister from doing this, but in a very shameful, historic ruling, we have seen our own Prime Minister break these four specific rules.

That is why my hon. friend the leader of the official opposition wrote to Mary Dawson, the then Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, asking for an investigation of the Prime Minister's conduct. That is why the Ethics Commissioner in turn conducted an investigation and produced a thorough 66-page report called “The Trudeau Report” on the Prime Minister's vacation. That is why the Ethics Commissioner reported her findings that the Conflict of Interest Act had been violated in four separate ways.

Let us keep in mind that the Conflict of Interest Act is a law. For anybody who said that the Prime Minister did not break the law, he did in fact break the law. The Conflict of Interest Act is a piece of legislation that our government brought into effect. It was passed here in the House of Commons. It is in law, and the Prime Minister broke that law. There is no way to sugarcoat or whitewash it. Mary Dawson's investigation confirmed what any sensible and reasonable observer would have said, that the Prime Minister's free luxury vacation on a private Caribbean island owned by someone with dealings with the federal government simply did not pass the sniff test.

Many have looked at the value of these three vacations. They are probably valued at close to $700,000. When we look at the value of not only the vacation itself but the RCMP time that was used for this vacation, which the Prime Minister has refused to pay back, it is close to $700,000. Can members imagine a minister of the crown receiving an envelope of cash with $700,000 in it from somebody who is dealing with that minister? It is like that individual saying, “Here is a free gift of $700,000 cash”, when that minister is making decisions regarding the work this individual was doing. The fact that this is basically what our Prime Minister did is reprehensible. The fact that he refuses to take responsibility for it is even more irresponsible. It goes to show how the Prime Minister has failed Canadians in his dealings. He has been unethical and has shown such horrendous judgment time and time again.

The Ethics Commissioner also unearthed that the Prime Minister and his family accepted similar vacations when he was the leader of the third party, and that his wife, children, and their whole host of friends accepted a third vacation in March 2016.

We thank the former Ethics Commissioner for her work and her analysis on this serious issue. The report and the public discussions about it have exposed a serious concern for us as Conservatives and I think for the entire House of Commons.

When we read the report that addressed the unethical and illegal vacation, we learned that during this Caribbean sojourn, the Prime Minister and the Aga Khan exchanged gifts. He received a present during a gifted vacation. Talk about piling it on. It is kind of like the nesting dolls that get piled on one after the other. We keep opening up the doll and there is another doll and then another. However, this is not very dollish at all; in fact, it is probably the opposite.

What kind of gifts are we talking about? My colleague, the hon. member for Saskatoon—Grasswood, himself a skilled journalist, sought to get to the bottom of the mystery and placed a question on the Order Paper to find out what kind of gifts the Prime Minister received from the Aga Khan. It would seem that the same PMO staff who first handled the communication of the Bahamas trip fielded this question. This is what we heard back from the government: basically, no disclosure. The Prime Minister said that he had disclosed all gifts to the Ethics Commissioner as part of the examination.

The bottom line is that the Prime Minister did not disclose the illegal gifts. He said he received a bag. We do not know if it was a duffle bag that one might get at Winners or a Louis Vuitton bag worth many thousands of dollars. We do not know because the Prime Minister will not tell us. The Prime Minister has to disclose gifts under a certain amount, but these illegal gifts that he received he has not had to disclose. When we have asked him time and time again, he has refused to.

The concern in this legal gap is not Mary Dawson's fault and it is something that needs to be addressed in the Conflict of Interest Code. With that, we need to get to the bottom of the gift exchange, and we need to close the loophole so that this does not continue.

Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner's ReportRoutine Proceedings

10:15 a.m.

Winnipeg North Manitoba

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons

Madam Speaker, I am somewhat disappointed in the official opposition in the sense that what is really important to Canadians is what is happening in their everyday lives in communities across our country.

The Prime Minister has complied with the commissioner. Mary Dawson did an outstanding job looking into the matter. We responded. We appreciated the fine work Mary Dawson did, and we continue to want to move on and recognize what is important to Canadians.

On the one hand, we can see that Canada's middle class continues to grow and get healthier, which gives us more strength in our economy. We see some of the tangible examples, such as the hundreds of thousands of jobs that have been created and some of the social programming that has been put forward.

As this government has focused on what Canadians want the government to do, the opposition has continued its preoccupation with character assassination, whether it is the Minister of Finance, the Prime Minister, or anyone else they believe they can point a finger at and say is a bad person. They can continue those personal assassinations. We, on the other hand, will continue to fight for the middle class and those aspiring to be part of it and those who are being challenged.

Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner's ReportRoutine Proceedings

10:15 a.m.

Conservative

Candice Bergen Conservative Portage—Lisgar, MB

Madam Speaker, what Canadians have seen for the last two years is a Prime Minister who continues to fail them. He made promises during the campaign, and when he was elected, he abdicated and reneged on every single one of those promises. We have never in the history of this Parliament seen a Prime Minister convicted of breaking four ethics laws.

The Prime Minister, and the Minister of Finance as well, are increasing taxes on Canadians, failing our energy sector, and failing the men and women in Canada who work in our natural resources sector who do not have Aga Khan billionaire friends to give them free island vacations worth $700,000. Canadians are working hard every day. They do not have two full-time nannies paid for by the taxpayers. They do not have trips abroad where, thankfully, they are being fools, like the Prime Minister made a fool of himself on the India trip.

The Prime Minister is using Canadian taxpayers' dollars. He is using his position to advance himself. He is using his position to promote himself. Canadians are saying that it is time the Prime Minister stopped acting like a fool.

Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner's ReportRoutine Proceedings

10:15 a.m.

NDP

Rachel Blaney NDP North Island—Powell River, BC

Madam Speaker, I thank the member for bringing up this very important issue.

The reality is that in the last election, the Liberals said that they were going to do things differently, that there was going to be more transparency, that there was going to be more accountability. However, what we are seeing is a serious loophole, which is that when they are given illegal gifts, they do not have to report them.

I think we have to come back to the basics here of accountability to Canadians. We have to stop having government members trying to say that everyday Canadians are interested in other things besides this. This is about the ethics of the leader of our country.

I would ask the member to talk a little bit about why this loophole is so huge and why the government is not taking steps to close it.

Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner's ReportRoutine Proceedings

10:15 a.m.

Conservative

Candice Bergen Conservative Portage—Lisgar, MB

Madam Speaker, I think we have seen a pattern with the government. Its members seem to find every loophole they can so they can use them to their advantage. We saw them do this very early on after the election, when the ministers were doing fundraisers with stakeholders. They were raising hundreds of thousands of dollars with the very same people they were working with in their ministerial portfolios. This was after the Prime Minister had said that they should be arranging their affairs in a manner that could bear the strongest scrutiny. They said that there were no rules that forbade them from doing that. We asked why they were not obeying not just the letter of the law but the spirit of the law. Honestly, if the Liberals would just follow the spirit of the law of the Ethics Commissioner's request, we would not have this problem.

If we did not have a Prime Minister who thinks he is entitled to all the fancy holidays and everything paid for by taxpayers, and anyone else he can take advantage of, we would not have this problem. However, we have the same old Liberals in government who are constantly trying to advance their own interests. Yes, we have to close this loophole to ensure that the Liberals do not find ways to take advantage of these kinds of things.

Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner's ReportRoutine Proceedings

10:20 a.m.

Conservative

Tom Kmiec Conservative Calgary Shepard, AB

Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the opposition House leader for concurring in this report and basically presenting the case for why it is important to have debate today on the Prime Minister's ethical breaches. It is not just us saying it. It is the Ethics Commissioner saying it.

Before I go on, Madam Speaker, if I could have your help on this, I will move an amendment to the motion at the end of my speech. If I am given the warning of one minute, I will be happy to move it then.

We are here today because of what's called “The Trudeau Report”. It was made under the Conflict of Interest Act and the Conflict of Interest Code for members of the House of Commons. It was tabled before the House in late January. Within it, we found that the Prime Minister, in fact, was guilty of breaking the ethical standards set in law.

It is not a spirit thing. It is not something the opposition would like to see. It is not something that members outside of the House believe is important. It is literally an act of Parliament that was passed, with guidance documents, which the Prime Minister signed, provided to all of his ministers. In the report, the Ethics Commissioner found that the Prime Minister broke four specific parts of the act.

Before I continue, I will also mention that I believe it is the first time a prime minister, in the history of Canada, has been found guilty of breaking not just any law but the ethics rules that all of us have to abide by, including members of the government. The front benchers and the members of the cabinet have to live by the rules. It is even worse that the person who is supposed to lead them, the person who is supposed to represent all of them, the Prime Minister, broke these rules. What kind of example does it set for the rest of the cabinet ministers when their own leader breaks the rules and shows no contrition whatsoever about having done so and makes no amends whatsoever to fix the matter?

There is a saying, “Every day brings forth its own sorrows.” That is a Yiddish proverb. I had my own sorrow on Sunday and Monday when all my flights kept being cancelled and I could not get here, but today I believe it is going to be the sorrow of the Prime Minister, because he is in a particular situation where he has done nothing to address his ethical lapses.

I am old enough to remember that this is indeed the same old Liberal Party of Canada, the same old people who are involved. I remember Adscam. I remember the Gomery inquiry. Justice Gomery did a fantastic report at the time. We are having a repetition of the same ethical lapses of 10 to15 years ago. It is absolutely ridiculous that we find ourselves here today. I also think this is the first time we have had concurrence in an Ethics Commissioner's report to the House that highlights the ethical lapses of the Prime Minister.

There are five things a Toronto Star article mentioned that I think draw attention to the importance of having this debate today, because ethics do matter. We cannot just wash it over. Ethics do matter.

The Aga Khan did not meet the definition of a friend under the law. The Prime Minister broke the rules on gifts. The flights that were taken were an issue. I am going to go into that just a little bit more, because the Ethics Commissioner went into the details of what the Prime Minister's lawyers were saying in an interpretation of the law that I think most Canadians would find absolutely ridiculous. Finally, the Prime Minister failed to recuse himself from talks that gave him an opportunity to further the interests of the Aga Khan.

The investigation started because the former chair of the ethics committee wrote a letter. It was the member for Red Deer—Lacombe, a Conservative member of Parliament, who pointed out to the Ethics Commissioner the potential ethical breaches in the behaviour of the Prime Minister. I remember that at the time, that side of the House, including very specific parliamentary secretaries, were saying that this was not an issue. They were asking why there was a focus on a vacation trip when we should be focusing on jobs, the economy, and all these other things.

However, ethics matter, especially in leadership. Role models Canadians look toward for ethical decision-making, who are leading the country, should be held to the highest possible standard. More so, they should set the bar even higher for themselves and do so in a very public manner. When they cannot even meet the bar they set, and they cannot even meet the bar set by the House of Commons itself, it becomes a matter the House should consider through concurrence in the report.

In that report, the Ethics Commissioner said,

There was nothing unusual, unforeseen, or unavoidable about this trip. [The Prime Minister] was well aware, given his previous stay on the island in 2014, that private transportation was needed to reach the Aga Khan's private island.

One of the points the lawyers tried to make was that actually, this ethical breach, which the Ethics Commissioner said was a violation of the law, was unavoidable. The lawyers claimed that there was no way to plan around this. The RCMP needed to do it.

The Prime Minister knew in 2014 that if he went to this island, it would be exactly the same situation. The Ethics Commissioner said it was unavoidable, that he should have known better. The Prime Minister contravened sections 5, 11, 12, and 21 of the act. The Ethics Commissioner found that he failed to meet the general duty found in section 5, because he vacationed on the Aga Khan's private island.

Section 11, which is the purpose of my amendment, deals with the gifts that were received during this trip. The Prime Minister accepted hospitality and gifts and the use of the private island that personally benefited him. He never cleared it with the Ethics Commissioner ahead of time. He just did it, and after the fact, he claimed that he had learned a lesson and that it probably will not happen again. How can we trust that? He showed no contrition. He made no attempt to modify the law to live up to the higher standard he set for cabinet ministers.

Section 12 prohibits ministers and members of their families from accepting travel on non-commercial charter or private aircraft. By the way, the lawyers quibbled over the definition in French and English, aircraft versus avion, in the report. That does not cover helicopters. I find it absolutely ridiculous that the Prime Minister would instruct his lawyers to make that type of defence, but it is in the report itself. Any Canadian can read it and see it in black and white.

The Ethics Commissioner said,

[The Prime Minister] contravened Section 12 when he and his family accepted travel provided by the Aga Khan on a private aircraft. The travel was not required as part of his official duties, the circumstances were not exceptional and he did not seek the prior approval of the Commissioner.

Last, “the Prime Minister contravened Section 21 when he failed to recuse himself from two discussions during which he had an opportunity to improperly further the private interests of” the Aga Khan.

As the opposition House leader has said, the Aga Khan Foundation and the Aga Khan himself do a lot of good work, charitable work, all around the world. It is not incumbent upon the Aga Khan to recuse himself. It is incumbent upon the Prime Minister to recuse himself. He is the person responsible for ensuring that he does not find himself in a conflict of interest. All members of cabinet have to live up to this higher standard, a higher standard set not only by the Prime Minister but also by the House of Commons through the ethics legislation that was passed in 2006, with mass party support. We all agreed at the time that the ethical bar had to be raised, and indeed, it was raised.

It is interesting that now we find ourselves in this situation, 12 years after that truly historic and monumental piece of legislation came down. It was the first piece of legislation put forward by the Conservative government in 2006. It set forth new ethical rules that all members of Parliament, cabinet ministers, and the prime minister were expected to live up to.

The Prime Minister has failed to live up to those standards, and now we find ourselves today concurring in a report from the Ethics Commissioner to draw the attention of Canadians to the Prime Minister's lack of ethical standards and his complete inability to show any contrition or make amends or propose modifications to the rules to ensure that this will never happen again. It may quite easily happen again.

There is also the issue of the gifts. We do not know what the illegal gifts were. As the opposition House leader said, members of Parliament and Canadians have a right to know what they were.

I see that my time is up. I would like to move the amendment I spoke of at the beginning of my remarks. I move:

That the motion be amended by deleting all the words after the word “THAT” and substituting the following: the report of the Ethics Commissioner, entitled “The Trudeau Report”, tabled on Monday, January 29, 2018, be not now concurred in, but that, pursuant to section 28(13) of the Conflict of Interest Code for Members of the House of Commons, it be referred back to the Commissioner with instruction that he amend the same to include recommendations to close the loopholes in the Code, as well as the Conflict of Interest Act, that allowed the Prime Minister to withhold from the public the nature of the unacceptable gifts he received from the Aga Khan because the public registry includes only acceptable gifts within the meaning of section 14 of the Code and Section 11 of the Conflict of Interest Act.

Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner's ReportRoutine Proceedings

10:30 a.m.

NDP

The Assistant Deputy Speaker NDP Carol Hughes

The amendment is in order.

Questions and comments, the hon. member for Laval—Les Îles.

Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner's ReportRoutine Proceedings

10:30 a.m.

Liberal

Fayçal El-Khoury Liberal Laval—Les Îles, QC

Madam Speaker, the easiest thing to do is to criticize someone, especially when that person is achieving something the previous government was unable to achieve.

I would like to remind my colleagues in the other parties that they do not see what the Prime Minister has achieved, with his historical investment in infrastructure to create jobs and grow the economy, protecting the environment, lifting hundreds of thousands of children out of poverty, shifting Canada's name from the bottom line to the highest international levels, and putting Canada on the front line of the G7.

I am sorry to say that either those members do not see it the way they should, which means they are blind, or they have to open their eyes more, be realistic, and tell the truth to the Canadian people.

Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner's ReportRoutine Proceedings

10:30 a.m.

NDP

The Assistant Deputy Speaker NDP Carol Hughes

I just want to remind members to please respect the person who is speaking. I am sure the person who will be answering the question is quite capable. If others have questions and comments, please stand to be recognized.

Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner's ReportRoutine Proceedings

10:30 a.m.

Conservative

Tom Kmiec Conservative Calgary Shepard, AB

Madam Speaker, ethics matter, especially when it is the Prime Minister who is leading the cabinet and who has been given this immense responsibility and privilege to serve as the Prime Minister. Ethics do matter.

The member talked about infrastructure. It is interesting. The Parliamentary Budget Officer has said that half of the money comes from the Harper era, and none of the money appears inside the budget. This great accomplishment does not appear in the government's own budget document.

On child poverty rates, the member must know that the government's own numbers go back to 2014, including two years of the Harper era government, which was the only government, going all the way back to the Chrétien time, that actually reduced child poverty rates. It can be looked up at Statistic Canada. It is right there.

Finally, on the G7, international stature of Canada, I will remind the member of the Prime Minister's laughable, ignorant, arrogant, prideful trip to India, where he embarrassed our country and all Canadians.

Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner's ReportRoutine Proceedings

10:30 a.m.

NDP

Pierre-Luc Dusseault NDP Sherbrooke, QC

Madam Speaker, I thank my colleague for his speech.

He touched very briefly on the Prime Minister's desperate attempt to justify his trip and claim that, according to his lawyers, he did not violate section 12, which mentions airplanes. The English and French versions actually say two different things. The English version uses the word “aircraft”, I think, and the French one uses the word “avion”, which means airplane. Obviously, he went with the version that suited him when he justified his trip and the use of a private helicopter on the grounds that a helicopter is not an airplane. He went with the French version, claiming that, when the two versions differ, the one that makes the most sense or best captures the legislative intent takes precedence.

He is trying to convince Canadians that, when he was planning the trip, he read section 12 of the Conflict of Interest Act before agreeing to go on the trip, saw the words “aircraft” and “avion”, and decided to go with the French version and accept the trip on the grounds that he was complying with section 12. That is an act of true desperation.

What are my colleague's thoughts on that?

Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner's ReportRoutine Proceedings

10:35 a.m.

Conservative

Tom Kmiec Conservative Calgary Shepard, AB

Madam Speaker, I want to thank my colleague, who belongs to another party but sometimes sits with me on the Standing Committee on Finance. He is perfectly correct. The word in question appears on page 55 of the English version, which is the only one I have here, since I left the French version at my office. He is correct that the French says “avion” and the English says “aircraft”. The Prime Minister should have known that there is a difference. It seems he asked his own lawyers to say it was all right because the act did not contain the word “helicopter”. He thinks that he can take the Aga Khan's helicopter on a private vacation with his family and accept a gift from the Aga Khan, who has business dealings with the Canadian government. It is utterly preposterous for the Prime Minister to instruct his own lawyers to advance that argument. Indeed, the Ethics Commissioner's report mentions that very defence, namely that the act does not mention the word “helicopter”, so it was all right for him to accept. This shows that the Prime Minister has a total lack of judgment.

Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner's ReportRoutine Proceedings

10:35 a.m.

Winnipeg North Manitoba

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons

Madam Speaker, as in the past, I always believe it is such a privilege to stand inside the chamber and participate in debates. Today is no exception to that.

However, I am somewhat disappointed in both opposition parties and their desire to try to deal with an issue that has been dealt with already. It is interesting. We have that unholy alliance across the way, the New Democrats and the Conservatives, who are convinced that the best way to attack this government is not to talk about fiscal policy, not to talk about social policy, but rather to look at ways they can attack the individual, go after the person. We have witnessed that time and again.

Canadians have an expectation of what takes place inside this beautiful chamber. They expect us to talk about laws, about budgets, and about our priorities for Canadians. If they review the speeches given inside the chamber, they will find that only one party has been consistent in addressing the important issues that Canadians want us to debate and address inside the chamber. It is not the Conservatives and it is not the New Democrats. It is the Government of Canada, the Liberal caucus, the backbench MPs to the ministers, that is addressing those very important issues.

Those members want to talk about credibility of an individual and this report. They want to make things as personal as possible, this whole character assassination of sorts. Let me remind members across the way that this government has been open, transparent, and accountable to Canadians. The Prime Minister demonstrated that even before he became the Prime Minister of Canada.

Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner's ReportRoutine Proceedings

10:35 a.m.

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux Liberal Winnipeg North, MB

For the hecklers from the New Democrats, when the NDP was the official opposition, it resisted openness and accountability when it came to members of Parliament and what they should report to Canadians.

When the Prime Minister first became leader of the Liberal Party, one of the first initiatives he took, outside of dealing with the importance of Canada's middle class, was to ensure there would be more accountability and transparency in the chamber. I will remind my friends across the way how they responded to that. It was not very positive. It was not what Canadians wanted to hear. If they want to talk about saying one thing while in government and saying another thing while in opposition, or saying one thing when in official opposition, and how quickly things turn around, at least there is consistency with the Prime Minister and the Liberal caucus.

The example I am referring to is the issue of proactive disclosure. What did the New Democrats have to say about proactive disclosure? What did the Conservative Party have to say? When the Prime Minister was elected the leader of the third party, he stood in the House, not once or twice but on several occasions, to try to get the chamber to recognize that a higher bar needed to be met, and I remember because I sat right behind him. He said that one of the ways we could do that was through proactive disclosure. What was the response? Of course, as the third party it went well for us. When the then leader of the Liberal Party, now Prime Minister, asked for unanimous consent to raise that bar, the response was no from both the government of the day, the Harper bubble closed-door government, and the official opposition, the NDP party. We were saying that Canadians had a right to know some of the very basics with respect to how members of Parliament spent their taxpayer money. We were arguing for it be posted on the Internet.

Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner's ReportRoutine Proceedings

10:35 a.m.

Some hon. members

Oh, oh!

Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner's ReportRoutine Proceedings

10:40 a.m.

NDP

The Assistant Deputy Speaker NDP Carol Hughes

Order. I want to remind members one more time. This is the third time this morning already. I guess the two-week break was too much for some people. I want to remind members that someone has the floor. There is to be no going back and forth during the debate. The speeches are to be addressed to the Speaker. If members have questions or comments, when it is time for questions and comments, they can stand to be recognized.

The hon. parliamentary secretary to the government House leader may continue.

Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner's ReportRoutine Proceedings

10:40 a.m.

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux Liberal Winnipeg North, MB

Madam Speaker, members across the way say that it is about disclosure. They are right. In this aspect of my comments, it is all about disclosure. What did the government of the day, the Harper government, have to say? It said no. It did not believe in telling Canadians how it is members of Parliament were spending their money. The only ones that were worse than the Conservatives back then were the New Democrats.

What happened is that the leader of the Liberal Party, today's Prime Minister, said that even if the Conservatives and the NDP did not support it, the Liberal caucus would go it alone. We took the additional resources, which were scarce because we were the third party at the time, but it was important to the leader of the Liberal Party and we set up an internal system. The leader back then said that Liberal members of Parliament would participate in proactive disclosure.

It was the Conservatives and the NDP who said no, because of their unwillingness to participate if obligated. If the Liberal Party wanted to move forward on it, we had to create our own system. Now, a couple of months went by and we were into the summer. This was three or four years ago. The Conservatives had one of those road to Damascus moments, at least on the aspect of the importance of proactive disclosure. As the leader of the Liberal Party back then tried to explain to this chamber, yes, Canadians have a right to know. It is a fair expectation Canadians have in terms of knowing how members of Parliament are spending the hundreds of thousands of dollars we are individually given as members of Parliament, all of which are tax dollars, and that they have a right to know that. We applauded the Conservatives for changing their minds on it.

Of course, in order to get something done, we needed unanimous support. We still had the New Democrats refusing to give unanimous support to the issue. They fought it tooth and nail. It was not until we brought in an opposition motion, where they were literally embarrassed into supporting the idea and they had to stand up individually, that they changed their opinion. I believe that in the months and months that went by from when they initially said no, they realized, much like the Conservatives, that it was time to have proactive disclosure.

We were glad to have played a very important role in that, believing it provided more accountability and transparency to Canadians. The Prime Minister then said, once he became Prime Minister, that ministerial mandate letters would also become part of the public domain. That was something new. What would happen before was that the former prime minister, Stephen Harper, would say what he thought a department should do, that he would pass that on through a particular minister, and they were known as the mandate letters. Would they become public? It is hard to say, depending on the minister.

Let us think in terms of what the mandate letter is. It kind of captures the essence of what some of those important priorities are that a department should be moving toward. We have a Prime Minister, virtually from taking office, saying that these mandate letters are in fact going to be public. Whether it is from virtual day one of this Liberal cabinet to today, we have seen actions by this Prime Minister, by this cabinet, and by the Liberal caucus, because all my colleagues within the Liberal caucus understand the importance of accountability and transparency. We have strived to deliver that to Canadians.

Now, there is always room for improvement. We can always do better. Maybe that is a good segue into what it is we are debating today through this particular report.

Issues come up. All prime ministers travel. When prime ministers travel, they do not travel alone. There is a security issue. Let us wake up the Conservative Party and talk about Stephen Harper. When Stephen Harper travelled, there was a security detail that went with him. That is part of being a prime minister. There has to be security. Believe it or not, there are individuals around the world who would like to cause harm to the office of the Prime Minister, so there is that need. When the Conservatives talk about the hundreds of thousands of dollars, the costs of security are very real, just like the costs of security for the House of Commons. There is a cost to seeing the RCMP officers and security individuals we have within this chamber. That is just modern-day democracy, and the way our parliamentary system works. To throw around numbers or point out these huge costs in tax dollars because the Prime Minister took a vacation is disingenuous. It is meant to get Canadians upset. That is the real purpose of it. What is it that the opposition members are really trying to do? They do not have anything to talk about.

I will get to some of the things that are important to Canadians which this government will continue to be focused on, but before I do that, I want to pick up on the question I had posed to the opposition House leader. Why do the official opposition in particular, with the support of the unholy alliance the New Democratic Party, want to continue to hit at the personal level?

I was in opposition for over 20 years. Most of my political career has been in opposition. Based on the experience I had in opposition, I can say that yes, at times we need to hold government accountable for some of the things that a minister, a prime minister, a premier, or even non-ministers do. We have independent agencies, such as the Ethics Commissioner, the Lobbying Commissioner, and Elections Canada. We have individuals who are far more independent in their thinking than the opposition parties are.

The current Conservative Party goes out of its way, because it does not have anything to say about the economy. It does not have anything to say with respect to the social programming this government has been introducing since it has been mandated. These are very strong, tangible things that I will go into. However, before I do that, members should recognize that the reason we are debating this report today is that it fits the Conservative agenda of let us not talk about substance or government policy; let us talk about who we can attack in the cabinet of the Liberal government or even at times non-cabinet members. That is what the Conservatives look for all of the time. They are consistent when it comes to that. I will use the words “character assassination”, because that is what it feels like at times.

We have these independent offices so that if opposition members have concerns, they can raise those concerns in addition to raising them on the floor of the House. If we look at the report that was issued by Mary Dawson, the independent commissioner, I think it is a good report. The report is based on a lot of information. I know when the issue first came up, when the Conservatives first raised it, and good for them for raising the issue, right away there were discussions with Mary Dawson, the independent officer of Parliament, and there was an investigation.

From day one, the Prime Minister was very clear. He said that he would work co-operatively with the commissioner and respond to any of her inquiries.

Opposition members continued to push the issue, which they can do so. They called for the report. They demanded the report. However, we did not tell Mary Dawson that she should release the report on such and such date. This is an independent office. If we were to do that, we would then be criticized for telling the independent office to provide the report by such-a-such date.

However, when Mary Dawson came out with report, what took place? Immediately after the commissioner's report was tabled in the House, the Prime Minister took responsibility. He went over and above what was being requested. The Prime Minister said that when he went on a vacation, he would advance that information to the office.

It was not as if there something was intentionally done to try to hide this. No one was trying to hide something. However, when people listen to the Conservatives, they would think there was a mass conspiracy. That is what the Conservatives want Canadians to believe.

The Prime Minister took immediate responsibility and took specific actions to address the situation. However, it was not good enough. The Conservatives saw the report, which we are debating today. Why? Because it does not fit the Conservatives' narrative of who cares about what is happening in our communities with respect to economics or social policy. All they care about is how they can attack the individual. Far too often I see that demonstrated, whether in question period or otherwise.

What were we supposed to debate today? The budget implementation bill. However, instead of debating that bill, we are debating an issue that is not new, that we have spent hours and hours of debate on. Instead of talking about the bill, the Conservatives want to regurgitate the same issue on which there is a report. The Prime Minister has taken responsibility. Therefore, one must question the motivation of the members across the way.

Right now we are not debating the budget implementation bill because of the Conservatives. However, I will give them credit as they have been able to convince the New Democrats that their approach on this issue is the best approach for debate in the House. It is almost as if the enemy of my enemy is my friend is the attitude of the Conservatives and New Democrats.

I have had many years of experience being on the opposition benches. Who knows, it could be four years, 10 years, but I hope to have a balance with the same number of years in government as in opposition. That is a hope, but it will be Canadians who make that determination. For those who are wondering, it was just over 20 years in opposition.

The joint opposition can continue to focus on the personalities. It can continue to focus on personal character assassinations. We, on the government benches, the Liberal caucus, will continue to focus on what really matters: Canada's middle class, those aspiring to be a part of it, and those who need a lifting hand. Those are the individuals we are here to represent, and we will do that day in and day out.

We will ensure there is more openness in government, more transparency, and more accountability. For those who are following the debate, they should not buy into what the joint opposition is saying, because we are moving forward on all fronts.

Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner's ReportRoutine Proceedings

10:55 a.m.

Conservative

Sylvie Boucher Conservative Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC

Madam Speaker, I thank my colleague for his eloquence. We are accustomed to his passionate speeches, but that passion is blinding him to what is really happening here.

This Liberal Party claimed to be pure as the driven snow. It said it wanted to do things differently. Now we find out that their idea of doing things differently is to revert to the era of the sponsorship scandal, and maybe worse. We will come back to that. How can a member of Parliament, whether Liberal, Conservative, or New Democrat, congratulate the Prime Minister on being the biggest spender and the least transparent and for meeting so many people that when he travels abroad, he becomes an international laughingstock? How can a member elected to speak for his or her constituents stand up in the House to defend this Prime Minister?

Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner's ReportRoutine Proceedings

10:55 a.m.

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux Liberal Winnipeg North, MB

Madam Speaker, I can do that very easily. What is happening is the member opposite is following the Conservative narrative. She is following, intentionally or unintentionally, I am not sure, the spin the Conservatives are trying to portray. It is a false narrative.

If this is just an issue of accountability and transparency, all the member needs to do is look at what the government has done in a very real and tangible way. If it is specifically with respect to the Prime Minister, I just spoke about the proactive disclosure. She should look at what the government has accomplished on that issue.

The Prime Minister has worked co-operatively. He has taken responsibility. It is time we talk about the economy. Perhaps we should be talking about the budget and social policy. The Conservatives are missing the boat by talking about something else, not wanting to change the topic.

Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner's ReportRoutine Proceedings

11 a.m.

NDP

Rachel Blaney NDP North Island—Powell River, BC

Madam Speaker, I certainly have never been told I belong to an unholy alliance. It has been an interesting day for me in the House.

For me, this is a relatively simple question, and I appreciate the amendment. It talks about something that is fundamentally important, which is that we fix this loophole. Therefore, I would like the member to explain why fixing this loophole is such a burden to the government.

Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner's ReportRoutine Proceedings

11 a.m.

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux Liberal Winnipeg North, MB

Madam Speaker, where do I start? I have talked about the NDP members tending to want to say one thing, while their actions do not necessarily follow what they are saying. The best example of that is on the proactive disclosure.

An amendment has been brought forward. We have a government that has made very clear its indications on how we can move forward in ensuring there is more accountability and transparency coming from this place. The government will take into consideration all those aspects.

If opposition members have ideas, I would encourage them to raise them. Whether it is during debates, including budget debates, or raising them in standing committees or with individuals on this side, there are all sorts of forums in which we can talk about good ideas to advance accountability and transparency. Our government genuinely believes in it.

Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner's ReportRoutine Proceedings

11 a.m.

Conservative

Dan Albas Conservative Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC

Madam Speaker, I certainly appreciate the member's contribution today to the discussion. When it comes to transparency, in the last Parliament the Prime Minister put forward a private member's bill and made it part of his electoral commitment. Then what did we see? The Liberals put forward legislation on access to information that had nothing to do with what they had promised.

In regard to the actual debate we are having today though, this is about the Ethics Commissioner. The member has said multiple times that we need to support and respect officers of Parliament, particularly the Ethics Commissioner.

When this motion comes to vote, will the member and his Liberal colleagues vote to send the report back to the commissioner for the purpose of closing the loopholes identified by the commissioner? An independent officer made recommendations. This would be about making the act better, not just for this Prime Minister and his cabinet but also for future governments. Will the member support closing those loopholes by supporting this amendment?

Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner's ReportRoutine Proceedings

11 a.m.

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux Liberal Winnipeg North, MB

Madam Speaker, the member made reference to access to information. He will know that the government, in a short term, in two and a half years, has brought substantial changes to access to information. It was the first real major overhaul of the legislation in over 30 years.

When there are ideas and thoughts that we can continue to move forward, the government has demonstrated a tremendous amount of good will, such as making public the mandate letters and introducing access to information legislation. Time and again, the government has moved the House forward on issues, even at times of resistance from opposition members.

Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner's ReportRoutine Proceedings

11 a.m.

NDP

Pierre-Luc Dusseault NDP Sherbrooke, QC

Madam Speaker, my colleague seems to be taking lessons from certain American politicians, and it is disappointing to hear him distort the truth and revise history as he sees fit and make wild accusations against his opponents. He spent 10 minutes talking about transparency and the fact that the Liberals have embraced proactive disclosure. He said there was some resistance.

I need to correct a few things my colleague said. The current system for disclosing expenses works consistently across the board; in other words, it applies equally to everyone. That is precisely what we were advocating for at the time. Under the current system, Financial Management Operations, which oversees members' expenses, has itself standards for the disclosure of information. I want my colleague to take note of that.

Also, he said at the beginning of his speech that this debate is unnecessary and a waste of time, and yet we are talking about a rather thick document in which the former commissioner of conflict of interest and ethics mentioned some very important things, particularly modernizing and improving the Conflict of Interest Act.

Is the member saying that there is no need to take time to talk about the Conflict of Interest Act in the House, in order to determine how to strengthen it and make it more effective and rigorous?