Debates of May 30th, 2018

Bill C-47—Time Allocation Motion

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the parliamentary committee members worked very hard over the past few weeks to complete their report and propose a number of constructive amendments. Out of respect for their work, those members would like us to have an opportunity to speak with a collective voice on the value of their work, so that the Canadians government's renewed leadership on the international stage could produce real results.

We are very grateful for and proud of the important work done by the parliamentary committee. Now we look forward to speaking with a collective voice on the value of that work so that it may lead to meaningful changes in how Canada can be useful and active on the international stage.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I remember that, when we were first elected, there was some consternation over an agreement we had for arms going to Saudi Arabia. The Prime Minister stood in the House and said that we would honour previous agreements, as a change of government should not change the legal requirements that we have signed onto as a government.

Now that we are looking at Bill C-47 in a new light, how can we make sure that Canadian defence equipment is being used for humanitarian purposes?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to congratulate my colleague for his hard work and his interest in this very important issue. I know how committed he is to the agenda, which makes a lot of sense for Canadians and for Canada in the world.

I want to take this opportunity to quote a very important view, the view of Christyn Cianfarani, president and CEO of the Canadian Association of Defence and Security Industries, or CADSI. She said:

Canada's accession to the UN ATT will further enhance our very strong defence export regime and raise the bar globally for other countries whose defence export control processes are not up to Canada's very high standards. The treaty places additional burdens on countries that export small arms and military equipment, to ensure the weapons are not diverted to third parties or misused by the actual recipients.... This is in part why CADSI called on the government last year to accede to the UN ATT.

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Red Deer—Lacombe, AB]

Mr. Speaker, here we go. This is the fourth time allocation we have had in the last two days. I think it is now at 38, with the government at its current pace, but the night is still young. I am sure we will have a couple more.

I could not be happier to see time allocation moved on Bill C-47. This bill would actually do nothing to reduce the trafficking of firearms. I know that it is well-intentioned. I know that it is the United Nations' intention to do this. However, for the same reason that criminals in Canada do not register their guns or buy their guns legally, international gunrunners are not going to be complying with the United Nations Arms Trade Treaty. They are not going to be complying with all the entry and exit requirements that are now going to be foisted upon manufacturers and those in the shipping business of legal firearms, which are hopefully going to make their way into the hands of law-abiding citizens. The reality is that this is another bill that is a make-work project by the United Nations, which, of course, any Liberal government in the past has been all too happy to follow.

I am going to ask the minister a direct question. Syria has used chemical weapons extensively. It has been ostensibly proven that the Syrian government has used chemical weapons on its own people, but it is now chairing the conference on disarmament. Given that this is just one of the instances in the track record of the United Nations, why is the minister rushing headlong into another United Nations agreement?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

Mr. Speaker, Canada has the privilege of being a country that has demonstrated to the rest of the world that peace and security lead to development. We want to show the rest of the world that this is a vision and an agenda that can be useful for other countries as well. I am sure the hon. member is also aware that the current government's actions in Syria, the Middle East, and around the world are focused exactly on that.

Peace and security equals development. That is why acceding to the Arms Trade Treaty matters so much. It must be done, now that we have had the opportunity to listen to the important advice of many witnesses and the important work of parliamentary committee members. We should all be delighted that not only have we worked very hard over the last few weeks, but now we are going to build on that work and lead Canada and the rest of the world to higher standards when it comes to peace and security, which equals development.

[Kevin Sorenson, Conservative, Battle River—Crowfoot, AB]

Mr. Speaker, again I stand in this place tonight disappointed. I guess the government realizes how little it has done throughout the year and now wants to rush through some of this legislation.

My constituents who are law-abiding gun owners in Battle River—Crowfoot know that Bill C-68, the long gun registry, was originally one of the reasons I got into politics. I want them to know that the government's priority tonight, before we break for summer, is to give the United Nations, not Ottawa, which would have been bad enough, the ability to make gun laws for my law-abiding farmers and ranchers, and also to take certain measures that, as we heard from the minister, the Liberals hope would show the world that we are leaders in the world if we just buy into this UN piece of legislation.

We are seeing two bills this year. We are seeing this one, Bill C-47, which the Liberals have moved closure on, but we are also seeing Bill C-71, which is basically a companion-type legislation. The Liberals bring both bills together, because they want to have power over law-abiding firearm owners.

I notice that the minister who is to shepherd this bill through the House tonight is not even here for the debate, or maybe I am not supposed to say that. However, it is unfortunate that another minister is doing standby duty for someone else tonight.

I would ask him to comment on the two pieces of legislation dealing with firearms, and why it is so vitally important that we move on this so quickly.

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I am very glad to see my colleague here in the House tonight. Earlier, I had the impression that our Conservative colleagues wanted to adjourn the House. It is, therefore, very comforting and promising to see them sitting late tonight with us. We enjoy their company. We value their hard work. It would be very unfortunate if we had to adjourn the House.

I commend the member for staying and sitting late tonight. We indicated earlier today that we value the Conservatives' presence and enjoy their work. We do not want to adjourn the House. We want to continue the hard work of members in this place, as well as build on the hard work of parliamentary committee members in the last few weeks and months.

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the Minister of Families about Canadian arms exports to foreign countries.

Since the time of Joe Clark as Canada's foreign affairs minister, there has been a departmental regulation that clearly states that Canada must not sell arms to a country if there is a risk that this country will use the arms against a civilian population.

Since this departmental regulation has been around for years, why did the government sign the permit to export arms to Saudi Arabia?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I want to commend and thank the member opposite for his work. He asked a highly relevant question. This is exactly why we are now working even harder on the parliamentary committee's recommendations.

This bill will make it easier for the Canadian government to ensure that its efforts on the international stage focus as much as possible on tying peace and security to development. This is why we are counting on the support of the NDP, which indicated its support during the election campaign, for Canada's accession to this UN treaty. I look forward to seeing the NDP's support for the Canadian government's efforts in the coming minutes or hours.

[Robert-Falcon Ouellette, Liberal, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to dispel a myth that has been put forward in the House. The ATT does not affect domestic gun control regulations. It does not create a registry of conventional weapons. Nothing in the ATT prevents lawful use of sporting firearms for legitimate purposes, such as sport shooting or hunting, and neither does it hinder the legitimate trade in conventional arms.

The Arms Trade Treaty's preamble recognizes very clearly legitimate trade and lawful ownership and the use of certain conventional arms for recreational, cultural, historical, and sporting activities where such trade, ownership, and use are permitted or protected by law. The ATT does not apply to domestic trade in arms.

I would also like to note that Canada is the only G7 or NATO not to have signed the ATT. Note that the U.S. and Turkey have signed, but not ratified it. I wonder if the minister could speak to how some of these myths are being perpetrated in the House.

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

Mr. Speaker, it is always a delight and an honour to sit next to an MP such as the one from Winnipeg Centre. He demonstrates a tremendous ability to indicate to Canadians and to members of the House the value, the depth, and the intensity of this type of work. I congratulate him.

He mentioned something I forgot to mention, which I would hope members of the opposition, in particular members of the Conservative Party, would know. Canada is the only country not to have signed or ratified the Arms Trade Treaty among all of the G7, NATO and OECD countries. This is an anomaly, according to many experts, that we need to correct.

Let me make that even clearer with a short quote from an expert. Anna Macdonald, director of the Control Arms Secretariat ,said:

The Arms Trade Treaty is about the international transfer of arms and ammunition between countries and territories that import, export, transit, and transship. It's not about domestic gun ownership.

[Alupa Clarke, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to address the member for Québec, whose riding borders mine. They are both very beautiful ridings.

The minister said something that deeply troubled me. It is one of the Liberals' recurring themes. He said that Canada was back on the world stage; however, we never left it. We simply have a different public policy, a different understanding, and a different approach.

I do not see how they can claim that we left the world stage when we signed 47 international treaties and we sent the Canadian Armed Forces to Kandahar on one of the most dangerous missions. It was a great success. My brother went there in 2006 to fight the Taliban and then al-Qaeda.

I do not understand how they can say that given that we established the free trade agreement with the European Union. If that is not an international commitment, I do not know what it is. As I often say in the House, according to the Liberals' rhetoric, they have a monopoly on virtue.

I would like to know if the Liberals are going to move another time allocation motion this evening or if we are going to start a serious debate of their proposed legislation.

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I too want to say how lucky I am to be neighbours with my colleague from Beauport—Limoilou. We share a border, but we also share the same aspirations and make the same considerable efforts for our beautiful and great Quebec City region. I would also like to commend him on his previous service to his community through the contribution he made in the Canadian Armed Forces.

That being said, I have a suggestion for him. If he wants proof that the Canadian government and Canada are back on the world stage, all he has to do is take a little tour outside Canada to see how happy and grateful countries, citizens, and governments around the world are that Canada has most definitely returned to the world stage.

Barely two weeks ago, for the first time in its history, the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development, the OECD, one of the most credible organizations in the world when it comes to matters of social policy and economic development, held its meeting on social policy in Montreal. Before leaving, the OECD said it was proud of Canada because it has demonstrated how fiscal, social, and economic policies can serve everyone.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I was listening earlier to my friend and colleague, the member for Perth—Wellington, describe students handing in their homework late, something that I can very much identify with, because I used to be one of those students. I look at the actions of the Liberal government and see that kind of behaviour replicated, because it takes one to know one. I get a sense that the House leader's office has looked at the calendar and said, “My goodness, the due date is coming, we have to rush and make up for all of the inaction over the rest of the parliamentary year.”

That aside, we are debating time allocation on Bill C-47 and I want the minister to tell me why he is rushing through such a flawed bill, and why the bill does not have any provisions within it to track the exports of Canadian arms to the United States. That is of great concern, because as a result of what President Trump is doing in the United States, there is a very real concern that components of arms manufactured in Canada could be funnelled to countries that have gross human rights violations. Why is that aspect left out of the bill and why are the Liberals ramming it down Parliament's throat when it is so flawed?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to observe and witness, as many of our colleagues are doing, the interest of the NDP in this very important file. We look forward to the NDP's visible demonstration of support for this important bill.

We also know on this side of the House the importance of working collaboratively with our great neighbour, the United States. We know how important that economic, social, and military relationship is in the context of our close physical connection and our long history. To support the needs and ambitions of our middle-class families, to provide jobs for our families and growth for our communities, we need to work respectfully and efficiently with our great neighbour. That is exactly what the bill is about.

[Larry Maguire, Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

Mr. Speaker, it is my privilege to ask a question of the government tonight, but it is ironic to have to deal with a bill that is less accomplished than what we already have in place in Canada with regard to tracking and a number of other things. As my colleague from Durham noted in his speech to the House when the bill was first brought forward, the government is now all of a sudden in a big hurry to get the bill through the House after the bill sat on the shelf for 13 months.

Even in that time, the world knows that the rules we have in place in our Canadian system for tracking are far superior to what the UN has in its Arms Trade Treaty, yet the Liberal government members seem very satisfied to just put a bill through dealing with the same things. I do not know if they really looked at it. Why in the world are they passing a bill that is not even up to the standards that we already have in Canada?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

Mr. Speaker, we are grateful for the hard work of members of this House, including the one who just spoke and all of the members of the parliamentary committee. They have been very active and strongly supportive of the importance of this bill. We have come to a time when we need, first, to recognize that work and, second, decide on what to do with that important work. That is why we look forward to all members of the House having a say in the way forward.

Given the question, let me position Canada's role on the international stage. I will quote Madam Christyn Cianfarani, president and CEO of the Canadian Association of Defence and Security Industries. Those industries are very important when it comes to providing good jobs for middle-class families. She said, “Canada's accession to the UN ATT will further enhance our very strong defence export regime and raise the bar globally for other countries whose defence export control processes are not up to Canada's very high standards.” That says two things: first, that this is important for Canada and, second, that it is very important for the rest of the world.

Again, we are very proud of what we do for Canadians and equally proud of the significant benefits this brings to the rest of the world.

[The Deputy Speaker, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

It is my duty to interrupt the proceedings and put forthwith the question necessary to dispose of the motion now before the House.

Shall I dispense?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

No.

[The Deputy Speaker, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

[Chair read text of motion to House]

The question is on the motion. Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

No.

[The Deputy Speaker, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

All those in favour of the motion will please say yea.

[Some hon. members]

Yea.

[The Deputy Speaker, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

All those opposed will please say nay.

[Some hon. members]

Nay.