House of Commons Hansard #384 of the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was elections.
The Assistant Deputy Speaker Liberal Anthony Rota
I believe that the hon. member for Winnipeg North was talking about relevance. I will be honest with you. Through this whole debate, there has been nothing relevant to Bill S-6.
The hon. member for Carleton seems to be going in a different direction. However, I will let him bring it back to Madagascar. I am sure it has something to do with Bill S-6.
The hon. member for Carleton.
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON
Mr. Speaker, this debate is about fiscal evasion with respect to taxes on income, which is a matter of corporate ethics. I was raising the issue of corporate ethics with respect to SNC-Lavalin, which stands accused, with formal charges, of over $100 million in fraud and bribery.
Earlier today at committee, the Liberal chair tried the same trick the member across the way just deployed to silence me from speaking out on this very issue. This is a finance issue, and I am talking about the conduct of the finance minister. That minister refused to testify in the finance committee today precisely because he was afraid to answer why he was talking about justice and law enforcement with SNC-Lavalin two weeks after the independent and non-partisan director of public prosecutions had decided that the company was not entitled to receive a special deal to avoid prosecution and trial. When I raised that question, the chair slammed his gavel. When I raised it again, he shut down the meeting.
Kevin Lamoureux Liberal Winnipeg North, MB
Mr. Speaker, I rise again on a point of order. It is about relevance. The member seems to be upset about something that took place in the standing committee. I would suggest that he go back to the standing committee and raise a point of order if he is not happy with what took place there.
Today we are talking about Bill S-6, and I would ask the member to reflect on the content of Bill S-6.
The Assistant Deputy Speaker Liberal Anthony Rota
The hon. member for Winnipeg North does have a point with respect to this. The argument is very much about an activity that took place outside of this chamber. I will remind the hon. member for Carleton that what we are debating today is Bill S-6.
The hon. member for Carleton.
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON
Mr. Speaker, you are indeed wrong. It happened at the finance committee, which is not outside of this chamber. It is a creature of this chamber.
I will continue, and I will advise our friends—
Kevin Lamoureux Liberal Winnipeg North, MB
Mr. Speaker, on another point of order, you asked the member to be relevant. You reflected on it being a standing committee. The member then stood in his place, and in essence, challenged your ruling by saying that he was going to continue the way he was speaking.
I would ask the member to understand that if he has an issue with the standing committee, the most appropriate thing for him to do is to go—
The Assistant Deputy Speaker Liberal Anthony Rota
Order. I will stop this now. It is turning into a debate. Again, the point of relevance does come into play. I will leave it to the hon. member for Carleton to hopefully come back to Bill S-6 and talk about the treaty with Madagascar.
We have a point of order from the hon. member for Timmins—James Bay.
Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON
Mr. Speaker, I just want to say, on behalf of the New Democratic caucus, that I have enormous respect for the work you do. I think you have a very difficult time at times, so we want to thank you for the work you are doing, and we certainly support you in most of your decisions.
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON
Mr. Speaker, there is no doubt that the government would like to silence voices speaking out against it at this time. We have seen that over and over. We know that the Liberals, particularly that member, are prepared to ramble on about any subject under the sun whenever they get the opportunity. The member has never been concerned about relevance except when we talk about things he does not want Canadians to know.
We are on that subject right now. The finance minister and the Prime Minister do not want the former attorney general to speak about what she knew and what they tried to force her to do with respect to SNC-Lavalin. The Liberals shut down a finance committee today to avoid tough questions on that subject. Now this member, who speaks for the government, is trying to shut me down, because he does not want any more debate or discussion on this issue.
If they want relevance, I will tell them about relevance. This treaty is supposed to be about fiscal evasion with respect to taxes on income, but it is about more than that. It is about who the government is working for. We have seen a pattern with the current government of crony corporatism and favouring the powerful and moneyed elite.
Since the Liberals took office, there has been a massive spike in reported lobbying activity. That is because the government has become the leading decision-maker on who gets what money. Businesses increasingly understand that the way they get ahead in this Liberal economy is not by having the best product but by having the best lobbyist.
Lobbyists managed to secure $400 million in handouts for Bombardier, a company that then laid off its workers, shipped the jobs to America and sold the IP to Europe. Europe got the IP. America got the jobs. Canadian taxpayers got the bill. Why did the Liberals do it? If the Canadian taxpayer did not kick in, the Bombardier-Beaudoin family would have lost control of the company. It would have had to issue more shares, which would have diluted its interest and brought it below 50%. Therefore, $400 million Canadian tax dollars from working-class people was used to protect the interests of feudal billionaires who wanted to maintain control of this company.
Why did the Liberals want SNC-Lavalin to get off these charges? It is a Liberal-linked corporation, which gave over $100,000 in illegal money to the Liberal Party and has lobbied the current government and its members over 100 times since.
The richest Canadians are paying $4.6 billion less. Those who inherit wealth and massive fortunes from ancestors, as the Prime Minister did, are able to shelter their money in special vehicles. The finance minister introduces tax changes that go after plumbers, pizza-shop owners and farmers, but interestingly, do not touch his family business, Morneau Shepell.
The Liberals set up an infrastructure bank that guarantees against losses for large construction companies in large public procurement projects so that all the risk is with taxpayers and all the profits are with the private-sector corporations.
That is the crony corporatism that drives the current government. Instead of relying on free enterprise, the Liberals want government control. Instead of meritocracy, they favour aristocracy. Instead of businesses making it by having the best products, they make it by having the best lobbyists. Instead of those same businesses obsessing over customers, those businesses have to obsess over pleasing politicians. That is the Liberal economy they are building. They are building an economy of political insiders, where people get ahead through their connections and where those with money turn that money into power and turn that power back into yet more money.
That is exactly the kind of crony corporatism we must end. When we do, we will replace it with a meritocracy driven by free markets, where we favour the challenger over the incumbent, the underdog over the fat cat, and everyday Canadians ahead of the interests of those on the inside track.
The Assistant Deputy Speaker Liberal Anthony Rota
Before I move to questions and comments, I will note that from the start of this debate, Bill S-6 was supposed to be the topic of discussion. Debate has gone far and wide. Normally, we allow members discretion. I assume they have a different path for their argument and that they will bring it back to Bill S-6. I ask the hon. members to ask questions and give answers about Bill S-6, the item we are debating.
Questions and comments, the hon. member for Winnipeg North.
Canada–Madagascar Tax Convention Implementation Act, 2018Government Orders
Winnipeg North Manitoba
Liberal
Kevin Lamoureux LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons
Mr. Speaker, what Bill S-6 does, in good part, is take away barriers for investment in trade. The government has taken a very aggressive approach regarding world trade and tax agreements like this to enable Canada to have a stronger, healthier economy. That will give strength to our middle class.
Now to the question for my colleague across the way. The member who spoke before him talked about whether we should stop debating this proposed legislation, since all parties in the chamber are supporting it. She asked the government why we could not just let the bill go through so that we could debate other issues, perhaps those that the member across the way would like to talk about.
Would he not agree with me and his colleague, who spoke just before he did, that we should allow the bill to pass so that we can change topics?
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON
Mr. Speaker, we are members of Parliament and we have the right to speak to legislation before it passes. The government would do well to stop trying to ram legislation through without proper debate. That is exactly how we got into the problem with SNC-Lavalin in the first place.
Earlier today, I was told at finance committee that I could not ask about SNC-Lavalin because the deferred prosecution agreements are not a financial issue and do not belong in discussions at the finance committee. That is funny. Why were they in the budget if they are not a financial issue?
Liberals keep telling us what is relevant and what is not so that we will not look at what they do not want us to see. Our job is to hold them accountable. It is not to heap praise on the Prime Minister, who had nothing but praise heaped upon him his entire life. We are not here to be his cheerleaders. We are here to hold him accountable, and we will not apologize for doing so.
Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON
Mr. Speaker, I take to heart your comment that we should be speaking about the bill, which is about Madagascar.
I have never been to Madagascar and I am probably not likely to go there, but I am concerned about the offshore tax havens that are protected by the Liberals. They may be in Madagascar but are more likely to be in the Cayman Islands and warmer climates.
In the KPMG case, in which a fraud scheme was set up so that billionaires would not pay tax, the government allowed KPMG not to be held accountable. Imagine if ordinary Canadian citizens did not pay their taxes. The government would come down on them like a ton of bricks, just as they do in going after single mothers in my riding over child tax benefits. Furthermore, not only did the government not prosecute KPMG: it picked a KPMG representative to be the treasurer of the Liberal Party. I guess Liberals just thought he did business so well.
This leads me to the question regarding SNC-Lavalin. The government wrote a get-out-of-jail card for one company and slipped it into an omnibus bill that we were not given the opportunity to properly debate. Members of Parliament were not aware that this get-out-of-jail card had been written at the behest of SNC lobbyists, but SNC lawyers were already aware that this legislation was ready to go and so they went to the independent public prosecution.
Canada is not Madagascar. We tend to think we are not a banana republic. However, this kind of shoddy backroom deal with friends certainly makes us look less than credible as a G7 country.
I would like to ask my hon. colleague what he thinks about this pattern of Liberal corruption involving lobbyists and insiders.
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON
Mr. Speaker, the member's question is very relevant. This is a Prime Minister who was found guilty of breaking the ethics legislation four times by accepting hundreds of thousands of dollars in free vacations from someone who was seeking grants from the government. This is a Prime Minister who skipped out on his parliamentary duties to do paid speaking engagements at which he forced charities and school boards to give him their money to do a job he was already being paid to do as a member of Parliament. This is a Prime Minister who brags about a family fortune he inherited, and who kept that fortune in a tax-preferred trust fund that allowed him to avoid declaring the trust fund income on his personal income tax.
That is the kind of Prime Minister we have. It is not surprising that someone who comes from that privileged background, who has enjoyed all of those benefits and has profited privately from his public life, would seek to make profit for those around him. That is why he has favoured the SNC-Lavalins, the Bombardiers and all the other crony corporatists that he is helping.
Marilyn Gladu Conservative Sarnia—Lambton, ON
Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to rise today to speak to Bill S-6 regarding an agreement between Canada and Madagascar.
I will support Bill S-6 because I think it is good for Canada to have agreements with other countries.
I would like to talk about the agreements that were signed while the Harper government was in office and compare them to what the current Liberal government has done. I will talk about the impact on my riding and a few other things.
To start, having agreements with other countries is a good thing. In this case, we are trying to prevent double taxation and fiscal evasion between Canada and Madagascar. If I look at the number of trade agreements that were signed under Stephen Harper, I see 43 trade agreements with huge significance in terms of economic benefit to Canadians. If we compare that to Bill S-6, which seems to have a very small impact, we can see that the government is focusing on things of lower priority.
Where is the focus, for example, on NAFTA? This is an agreement between Canada and the U.S. that has huge economic implications for us, but this agreement still has not been ratified on either side. We still have tariffs of 20% on steel and 10% on aluminum, and that situation is impacting businesses in Canada, especially in my riding. Sarnia—Lambton has a manufacturing base. These kinds of tariffs actually cause jobs to move to the U.S. I would think that the government would have a concern there and spend more time on that issue than on talking about the offshore impacts here in Madagascar.
Again, the CETA accord was negotiated but has not been signed yet by any of the 13 countries. Where is the government's effort to get that in place? It would have a huge economic benefit to Canadians if we could get that going. On the CPTPP, there is not much to say, except that the Prime Minister made a lot of countries angry when he went over there. We are still waiting to see the economic benefit of that agreement.
While I think it is good to have agreements in place, there has to always be a concern about priorities and about working on the things that have the largest impact first.
In terms of the fiscal evasion of taxes, we saw the paradise papers and the Panama papers, but where is the follow-up on that by the Canada Revenue Agency? To me, the amount that could be at risk in Madagascar is a very small amount compared to what is in those papers. We have seen no follow-up, and that is a definite concern.
In terms of avoidance of double taxation, I can certainly speak a lot to the issue of double taxation because we have seen double taxation happen all the time with the Liberal government. Most recently, this week I held a press conference to talk about the tax on a tax on a tax on medical cannabis. In this case, the government put in place a 2.5% tax on the producers after all the deals were signed, an additional tax, and then the provinces have an excise tax of 7.5%. On top of that, there is the GST. There is a 15% tax on what is prescribed by doctors for people who are suffering from pain, vulnerable people with medical conditions.
This is not the first time the Liberal government has decided to target the vulnerable with taxation. We saw this happen with the disability tax credit. In the past, 80% of people with type 2 diabetes or conditions such as autism or mental health disorders, such as being bipolar, were able to take advantage of that disability tax credit. The Liberal government got involved, and then 80% of people were not eligible. In fact, the reason for that change was to try to make them ineligible for the retirement disability pension, which had built up to about $150,000 per person. The government was attempting to claw that back.
It is not good to try to double-tax our own citizens, and to be focusing on the double taxation in Madagascar compared to the double taxation that is happening in Canada does not seem to be the right priority.
It is always good to try to get more tax revenue. It is very important. In order to get tax revenue, we have to take advantage of the opportunities that present themselves.
As an example, with respect to Sarnia—Lambton, the government would receive $4.3 million in tax revenue every year if the ferry border crossing at Sombra was repaired. However, two years ago now, the border crossing was broken by the Coast Guard's operation of an icebreaker when the ice was too thick, crushing the border crossing. It has not been fixed. There has been a lot of time wasted and a lot of economic job loss on the Canadian side. All of the restaurants and services located there went out of business. On the U.S. side, the restaurants have gone out of business.
There was an outcry to multiple ministers in Canada. One would think that the Minister of Public Safety, whose CBSA organization was getting this $4.3 million worth of tax revenue, would have done something. It was only going to be $2 million to fix the border crossing and the government is spending $80 billion on the Gordie Howe bridge, so it is surprising to me that the public safety minister chose to do nothing.
The Minister of National Defence had combat engineers in my riding. I was told that if it was in the national interest to have a border crossing opened, it could be done out of the budget of Minister of National Defence, and he also refused. The member for Milton, the former minister of transport, indicated there was a contingency fund there that could have been put in place, but the current minister told me that this was not the case and that he could not do anything. The Minister of Infrastructure and Communities refused to help.
We even appealed to the Prime Minister's Office. In fact, it is really disturbing to me that when the Marine City mayor, congressman Paul Mitchell, senators from the state of Michigan and the U.S. ambassador to Canada appealed to the Prime Minister's Office to reopen this border crossing, nothing was done. In this example, there was an opportunity for payback in less than a year, in terms of paying to fix the Sombra ferry crossing and getting the revenue, yet the government did not take advantage of that opportunity. That was wrong.
It is currently in litigation, so the crossing will remain closed and the economic opportunity to use that border crossing is lost.
People question the seriousness of the government on the NAFTA agreement. If the government really wants to do business with the United States and will not even spend $2 million to open a border crossing, there is a question about the government's priorities.
That is certainly something we have been talking about as we study Bill S-6 and think about the government bringing this forward as a priority when we know there are other huge issues. There is a huge loss of jobs in some sectors, such as the oil and gas sector, and what about the forest products sector? We know the government has done nothing to address the problems with the tariffs on softwood lumber. This is something we have been talking about since the Liberal government was elected in 2015, and still there is no resolution to this issue.
While it is great to have an agreement between Canada and Madagascar and it is fine to address issues there, hopefully that will be leveraged to take advantage of all of these other priorities that are being ignored while we are discussing this particular bill in the House today.
When it comes to CRA, one of the concerns I have is that we are not taking action on the Auditor General's report. We are very sad about the passing of the Auditor General, but if we recall the results of his report, we know that on average people have to call four times and wait 110 minutes to get an answer from CRA, and a third of the time the answers they get are wrong. I have personally seen all kinds of mean-spirited letters sent to my constituents from CRA, basically threatening to put them in jail. These are hard-working, taxpaying people, and there are very small amounts of money at risk. The amount of money we are talking about in offshore accounts for tax avoidance is far superior to that, and it seems to me that there are already 70 CRA employees in a position to work on this specific sort of thing. Perhaps we should increase our focus on going after the people hiding their taxes in the millions of dollars range rather than the hundreds of dollars range.
Canada–Madagascar Tax Convention Implementation Act, 2018Government Orders
Winnipeg North Manitoba
Liberal
Kevin Lamoureux LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons
Mr. Speaker, my colleague's friend and colleague, the Conservative member for Calgary Nose Hill, spoke on the legislation for 10 minutes. For about nine minutes, she pleaded with the government to actually pass the legislation. She challenged why we are debating the bill now. There are many other things that she wanted to debate. I have heard from the opening remarks of Conservative Party members that they are supporting the legislation. In fact, all members of the House are supporting the legislation, yet the Conservative Party wants to continue the discussion. Why is the Conservative Party, which is enthusiastically supporting the legislation, choosing to continue the debate? It is the only party putting up speakers.
On the other hand, the member tried to say the EU agreement was a part of the trade agreements under Stephen Harper, yet then she challenged the government as to why we have not signed off or seen the other countries sign off on the EU agreement. She is criticizing us for not finalizing it, yet she is taking credit as if Harper did finalize it. There are inconsistencies within the Conservative caucus today. I am wondering if she could provide clarification on both of those points.
Canada–Madagascar Tax Convention Implementation Act, 2018Government Orders
Some hon. members
Oh, oh!
The Assistant Deputy Speaker Liberal Anthony Rota
I want to remind the hon. members that when the Speaker stands he does say questions and comments. It is up to the individual to make the statement he or she wants.
The hon. member for Sarnia—Lambton.
Marilyn Gladu Conservative Sarnia—Lambton, ON
Mr. Speaker, the parliamentary secretary is talking about something that is very dear to my heart. As an engineer, I am all about efficiency. One of the things that drives me crazy in the House of Commons is that when we do show up with a bill and everyone is seen to agree to it, then we proceed to discuss it for days. Then we send it to committee where we do not amend it because everyone is in agreement and we proceed to send it on and on. There are opportunities for efficiency.
Why does the government not change the Standing Orders? The reason we debate the way that we do is that this is what the Standing Orders say we need to do. It is within the government's control to change that and make it more efficient. Certainly I would be a fan if it changed the rules. We would definitely abide by those more efficient rules. I encourage the parliamentary secretary to take that forward to his government.
As to the member's other question, the Harper government did all the heavy lifting on the CETA. There is no doubt about that. The Minister of Foreign Affairs showed up to do the final cry before the signing of it and that was fine as well, but now it is not ratified by 13 countries and there are protests. What is the government doing to manage that? This is a very important agreement and it is important that it gets ratified. What actions are the government taking to make sure it puts those fires out?
The Assistant Deputy Speaker Liberal Anthony Rota
We are going to break for question period. The hon. member for Sarnia—Lambton will have two minutes for questions when we return.
Elizabeth May Green Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC
Mr. Speaker, February being Black History Month, I think it behooves all of us to reflect on the enormous contributions to this country of Canada from members of the black community.
I look back in my riding to the extraordinary history of Salt Spring Island, where some of the earlier settlers moving in among the Coast Salish people were African Americans, some of whom were escaped slaves. For a while one of the largest population of settlers were black Canadians.
We have had political leadership and breakthroughs from women like Jean Augustine and Rosemary Brown, but I want to reflect on a dear friend of mine from Nova Scotia, who was one of the pioneers in Canada for achieving a place in the nursing profession for black women.
Clotilda Yakimchuk, from Sydney, Cape Breton, was consigned by environmental racism to be unable to rent anywhere but between the steel mill and the coke ovens, but she is and was a pioneer. She was the first black woman through the Nova Scotia school of nursing and she is a member of the Order of Canada for her many achievements. Happy Black History Month.
Linda Lapointe Liberal Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
Mr. Speaker, winter has been extremely tough this year in Quebec, with bitter cold, heavy snowfall, freezing rain and more. Winter in Quebec may be a burden for some folks, but in my riding, there is something for everyone at our many winter festivals.
Boisbriand's snow festival was a huge success. The big slide in the shape of a whale was quite popular. Rosemère's winter carnival went very well, even though it was a little cold. The sun was out, and everyone was delighted to be there. Saint-Eustache's snow festival is always a big hit. Everyone loved it, especially the evening percussion show, with drums that lit up. The Deux-Montagnes winter carnival organized by the Lions Club was a major success, as always.
These wonderful events would not be possible without the immense support of many volunteers. I would like to thank all the volunteers who took part in all these winter festivals, which bring joy to the people of Rivière-des-Mille-Îles year after year.
Recognizing Outstanding Quebec EntrepreneursStatements By Members
Conservative
Alain Rayes Conservative Richmond—Arthabaska, QC
Mr. Speaker, the Cercle des grands entrepreneurs du Québec has grown. Six new members joined the select group of accomplished business people.
I would especially like to congratulate Alain, Bernard and Laurent Lemaire, co-founders of Cascades. I know the Lemaire brothers well. I am proud to say that they got their start in 1964 in Kingsey Falls, which is in my riding, Richmond—Arthabaska.
Their business grew from one small mill into a multinational empire that now employs over 11,000 people. Still headquartered in that same wonderful municipality, population 2,000, their business is doing Quebec and Canada proud. Alain, Bernard and Laurent are much more than great entrepreneurs and pioneering members of Quebec's business community. They are also mentors to the decision-makers of tomorrow, generous philanthropists and very involved in our community. They support countless athletic, cultural, economic, heritage, community and health causes.
I would like to congratulate them on their many accomplishments.
Ramesh Sangha Liberal Brampton Centre, ON
Mr. Speaker, I am proud to be part of the celebrations of Black History Month, harnessing diversity and multiculturalism in this month of February.
Today, I am even more proud to recognize and highlight the contributions by a Brampton community stalwart, Madam Marjorie Taylor. With an everlasting smile on her face, she is the epitome of volunteerism. Some of her major achievements include serving as president of the Kiwanis Club and United Achievers' Club. She is the recipient of the Queen Elizabeth II Diamond Jubilee and H. Franklin Parker awards, and ultimately conquered the Brampton Citizen of the Year award in 2015.
Brampton is blessed. Canada is blessed to have someone like Marjorie to grace its shores. Long live Marjorie.
Fin Donnelly NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC
Mr. Speaker, the Fraser River is one of the greatest wild salmon rivers on the planet.
The stretch of the river from Hope to Mission, known as the Heart of the Fraser, sustains almost 30 species of fish, critical habitat for chinook, chum and pink salmon, and endangered white sturgeon.
Recently, Fisheries and Oceans Canada ordered the owners of Herrling and Carey islands on the Fraser River to take corrective measures after they allegedly destroyed fish habitat. These islands provide key rearing habitat for millions of juvenile salmon before they migrate to the ocean. These salmon are essential to our economy, ecosystem and west coast way of life. They are also the primary food source for endangered southern resident killer whales. To protect these whales, we must protect and restore Herrling and Carey islands.
Canadians want their government to take immediate action to protect, conserve and restore these islands, the Heart of the Fraser and the entire Fraser watershed.