House of Commons Hansard #415 of the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was area.

Topics

Bill C-55—Time Allocation MotionOceans ActGovernment Orders

12:15 p.m.

Winnipeg North Manitoba

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons

Mr. Speaker, it is important to recognize that, including today, there are only 25 more sitting days scheduled in the calendar. It is interesting that the New Democrats say that time allocation is bad, even though when they were in opposition and prioritized a bill and said they wanted it to pass, they supported time allocation.

Within government, there is very important legislation we have to get through in the next 25 days. Would my colleague, the minister, be able to provide his thoughts on how important it is that we continue to pass legislation all the way to the end and that the expectation of Canadians is that we do not just coast through but continue to recognize the important legislation and allow it to be passed? Just because there are only 25 days to go does not mean that we should sit back and not do anything. There are things that need to be done, and as a government, we should be prepared to do them. Would my colleague not agree?

Bill C-55—Time Allocation MotionOceans ActGovernment Orders

12:20 p.m.

Liberal

Jonathan Wilkinson Liberal North Vancouver, BC

Mr. Speaker, I certainly agree with my hon. colleague. There are a number of pieces of legislation before this House that it is very important to Canadians across the country, from coast to coast to coast, we move forward with and ensure are implemented effectively. Certainly Bill C-55 falls into that category.

The ability to ensure that we are able, on an interim basis, to protect areas of great ecological and biological significance is very important in a world where biodiversity is in decline and the impacts of climate change are increasingly prevalent. We need to move forward in a way that allows us to ensure that the future of the environment is a clean one for our children and our grandchildren.

Bill C-55—Time Allocation MotionOceans ActGovernment Orders

12:20 p.m.

Conservative

Phil McColeman Conservative Brantford—Brant, ON

Mr. Speaker, I can recall in the last Parliament the shouting and the disapproval of the members across the way when our government was using time allocation, and the member from Winnipeg was one of them. The Liberals' promise to Canadians in the last election was to do government differently, but that has proved false on many fronts.

That being said, the issue of there being 25 days left only illustrates the fact that the current government's legislative agenda has been so weak over its period in office as a four-year majority government that now the Liberals have to force through in 25 days legislation that should have been dealt with in the first two or three years, or certainly prior to the last six months.

The minister claims that this is essential. The amount of consultation with people outside committee is almost nonexistent on this bill. How does the minister justify the promise that the Liberals were going to do things differently, when we are looking at time allocation for the 79th time?

Bill C-55—Time Allocation MotionOceans ActGovernment Orders

12:20 p.m.

Liberal

Jonathan Wilkinson Liberal North Vancouver, BC

Mr. Speaker, I would invite my hon. colleague to review the record. This government has achieved far more, from a legislative perspective, in three and a half years than successive Harper governments were able to achieve over the course of a decade.

Let me again return to the facts, something I know my hon. colleague sometimes likes to avoid. Bill C-55 was introduced on June 15, 2017. There were five total days spent at second reading and three total days at third reading. There were nine House committee meetings. There were eight Senate committee meetings. In the fisheries committee, five amendments to the bill, proposed by Conservative, Green and independent members, were adopted by the House in April 2018. In the House committee, the members heard from 36 different witnesses. The bill spent over a year in the Senate, in part because of delay tactics by the Conservative Party. It was first read on May 26, 2018, and was sent back to us two weeks ago.

This is a very important bill for us to ensure that we are moving forward with an agenda that allows for the protection of areas of ecological significance on a go-forward basis to ensure that we will have a strong environment and a strong economy in the future.

Bill C-55—Time Allocation MotionOceans ActGovernment Orders

12:20 p.m.

Conservative

Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC

Mr. Speaker, for Canadians listening in, and indeed those in the gallery, Bill C-55 is about interim marine protected areas. The Minister of Fisheries, Oceans and the Canadian Coast Guard as well as the Minister of Environment would have the ability, in the absence of science, to immediately designate a marine coastal area a marine protected area. The concern is that in the absence of consultation, it could do this.

Today we are talking about closure. We have had it 71 times, as my friend from Courtenay—Alberni corrected me. Perhaps I was being too light on our Liberal friends across the way.

The concern all along has been that those who matter the most in our coastal communities, those who would be most impacted by marine protected areas, whether they are first nations or non-first nations, those who depend on those coastal areas for their livelihoods and way of life, are not being consulted or engaged adequately. We heard this time and time again.

Our Conservative senators put forth two amendments.

The first amendment would ensure that prior to the Minister of Fisheries, Oceans and the Canadian Coast Guard designating an interim marine protected area by ministerial order, the proposed order would be posted on the minister's website, and a 60-day comment period would be provided for. Written notice given to jurisdictions whose lands or interests may be affected by the proposed order would also be provided for in this amendment. This sounds reasonable. The rationale for this amendment came out of the Bill C-55 consultations, which did not include Nunavut. The senator from Nunavut said that consultation on Bill C-55 was not happening. He said:

The lack of a requirement of express permission for the adjacent province...to proceed with an establishment of an MPA has been interpreted by the Government in Nunavut as an act of bad faith, given the ongoing nature of the current devolution negotiations.

The second amendment, put forth by another Conservative senator, proposed to ensure that a certain level of detail, such as what we would be protecting, would be available to the public prior to the minister designating an interim protected area by ministerial order.

These are all things that came up in testimony. It is common sense.

Will the member be voting in favour of these common sense amendments from Conservative senators, or is it just because Conservative senators put them forth that the Liberals would vote them down?

Bill C-55—Time Allocation MotionOceans ActGovernment Orders

12:25 p.m.

Liberal

Jonathan Wilkinson Liberal North Vancouver, BC

Mr. Speaker, I would suggest that my hon. colleague read the bill in detail. There are requirements for consultation in the bill, significant and active consultation, as well as public documentation associated with the consultations on the geographic range and the nature of what is being protected. This is already in the bill. To respond to the intent of some of the amendments put in place by senators in the other place, we have also added a proposed amendment to ensure that there would be transparency about what consultations took place.

With respect to the absence of science, it is a bit rich for a member of the Conservative Party, whose previous government gutted the scientific capacity of the Department of Fisheries and Oceans and Environment Canada in a deliberate manner, to be complaining about a lack of science. However, yes, within the context of the designation of interim protection, it would absolutely be informed by science. It would absolutely be informed by indigenous knowledge. It would absolutely be informed by consultations.

We are working to ensure that this important bill would allow us to move forward with interim protection for areas of ecological significance.

Bill C-55—Time Allocation MotionOceans ActGovernment Orders

12:25 p.m.

Conservative

Robert Sopuck Conservative Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB

Mr. Speaker, when I took my biology degree at university, I learned that an environmental statement without a number attached to it was completely useless. All we heard from the minister was basically a word salad.

Quantitatively, under the Stephen Harper Conservative government, sulphur dioxide and nitrous oxide went down and the amount of park land preserved across the country went up. Fish stocks were in great shape. Under our Conservative government, the 2010-2014 sockeye salmon run set records on the west coast. I will stand and defend the real, honest and measurable achievements by the Conservative government.

The difference between a Conservative environmentalist, which I am, and a left-wing environmentalist, like across the way, is that we actually believe in delivering real and honest results. Here are some measurable results. I know the minister does not want to hear numbers because he is not used to that.

In the first year alone under the Conservative Recreational Fisheries Conservation Partnerships Program, 94 habitat restoration projects were undertaken. This included 380 partners, 1,700 volunteers, the restoration of 2.4 million square metres of habitat and the enhancement of 2,000 linear kilometres of recreational fisheries habitats. Those are real numbers and real achievements by a real government that cared about the environment.

On the science, Sean Cox, a professor of fisheries from Simon Fraser University, an unbiased fisheries professor, said:

Looking at some of the previous testimony, there was a claim that there was overwhelming scientific proof that MPAs are beneficial and widely successful. I think that was misrepresentation of the actual science.

With respect to consultation with communities, what did the minister tell the communities, which are so dependent on these marine resources, they could expect under MPAs, apart from kicking them out of important fishing grounds?

Bill C-55—Time Allocation MotionOceans ActGovernment Orders

12:30 p.m.

Liberal

Jonathan Wilkinson Liberal North Vancouver, BC

Mr. Speaker, I would be more than happy to put this government's environmental record alongside that of the Harper Conservative government, which gutted the Fisheries Act, gutted the environmental assessment process, had no plan with respect to climate change, oversaw significant declines in biodiversity, did nothing to implement the Species at Risk Act and gutted the scientific capacity of the Department of Fisheries and Oceans and Environment Canada.

With respect to marine protected areas and other effective area-based measures, those are moving forward to ensure we can protect, on an interim basis, areas of high ecological value. We obviously are in ongoing discussions with local communities to ensure they will benefit from these mechanisms as well.

Bill C-55—Time Allocation MotionOceans ActGovernment Orders

12:30 p.m.

Conservative

Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC

Mr. Speaker, I want to thank our hon. colleague from Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa for the work he has done, not only in this session but in previous sessions. He is, as he said, a stalwart in the conservation world. He lives, eats and breathes this. Therefore, it is shocking when we have a colleague across the way wanting to disparage Conservatives on our conservation record.

When we did the studies on the Fisheries Act and any fisheries-related policy, because we would think that all of those protections were decimated, it was interesting that not one witness who came before the committee, including the environmental groups, could provide any details or proof to show that any changes previously done by the former Conservative government in the Fisheries Act and the Environmental Protection Act resulted in the loss of fish and fish habitat. They could not provide any, and that is the truth. That was prior to our hon. colleague coming on to this file, so I will forgive him for that lack of knowledge.

However, our hon. colleague is a knowledgeable person, and I have great respect for him. When we talk about species at risk such as chinook salmon, Atlantic salmon and northern cod, could our hon. colleague give any demonstrable data as to how the Liberals' record in the last three and a half years has increased any numbers of fish or fish habitat?

Bill C-55—Time Allocation MotionOceans ActGovernment Orders

12:30 p.m.

Liberal

Jonathan Wilkinson Liberal North Vancouver, BC

Mr. Speaker, as I said, an enormous amount of work has been spent on a range of environmental files, not the least of which being species at risk.

My hon. colleague knows the conversations that are going on with respect to the protection of South Mountain and Boreal caribou.

With respect to chinook salmon, we have fixed and upgraded the Fisheries Act to restore loss protections from what was done in 2012 under the Conservative government. We announced just recently, with Premier Horgan in British Columbia, $142 million for salmon habitat restoration. We are working with the University of British Columbia on a symposium to address issues around prey and predators with respect to seals and sea lions. We have put in place fisheries measures aimed at protecting threatened Fraser River chinook salmon stocks.

We have a comprehensive approach in this case, and in every case, for addressing the threats and for looking to rebuild stocks over time.

Bill C-55—Time Allocation MotionOceans ActGovernment Orders

12:35 p.m.

Green

Elizabeth May Green Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank the Minister of Fisheries for commenting on other actions.

I support Bill C-55, but I cannot support the continual use of time allocation. We have seen a steady increase in its use in this place. It was shocking when it happened under the previous government. I have bemoaned this over and over again.

The reality is that a government with a majority of seats can treat Parliament as if it is basically a nuisance. The debate in this place is not about improving legislation or actually about doing our work as members of Parliament, but rather just somehow wasting time. That does a disservice to this place.

It was probably not the hon. member's decision to place time allocation on this legislation. I beg the Liberal majority to stop using time allocation over and over again. It has now become the normal procedure instead of the rare exception.

Bill C-55—Time Allocation MotionOceans ActGovernment Orders

12:35 p.m.

Liberal

Jonathan Wilkinson Liberal North Vancouver, BC

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. member for her support of this legislation, which is extremely important in ensuring we are protecting the environment on a go-forward basis.

I certainly agree with her that it is important we have time to debate and discuss issues in the chamber. I would simply reiterate that a significant amount of time has been spent at second and third reading, at committee and in the Senate over the course of the past two full years on the bill. The issues have been canvassed broadly and deeply, and we intend to move forward.

Bill C-55—Time Allocation MotionOceans ActGovernment Orders

12:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Assistant Deputy Speaker Liberal Anthony Rota

It is my duty to interrupt the proceedings and put forthwith the question necessary to dispose of the motion now before the House.

The question is on the motion. Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

Bill C-55—Time Allocation MotionOceans ActGovernment Orders

12:35 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

No.

Bill C-55—Time Allocation MotionOceans ActGovernment Orders

12:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mr. Rota) Liberal Anthony Rota

All those in favour of the motion will please say yea.

Bill C-55—Time Allocation MotionOceans ActGovernment Orders

12:35 p.m.

Some hon. members

Yea.

Bill C-55—Time Allocation MotionOceans ActGovernment Orders

12:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mr. Rota) Liberal Anthony Rota

All those opposed will please say nay.

Bill C-55—Time Allocation MotionOceans ActGovernment Orders

12:35 p.m.

Some hon. members

Nay.

Bill C-55—Time Allocation MotionOceans ActGovernment Orders

12:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mr. Rota) Liberal Anthony Rota

In my opinion the yeas have it.

And five or more members having risen:

Call in the members.

(The House divided on the motion, which was agreed to on the following division:)

Vote #1315

Oceans ActGovernment Orders

1:15 p.m.

Liberal

The Assistant Deputy Speaker Liberal Anthony Rota

I declare the motion carried.

Motion No. 167—Instruction to the Standing Committee on Public SafetyPoints of OrderGovernment Orders

May 13th, 2019 / 1:20 p.m.

Liberal

John McKay Liberal Scarborough—Guildwood, ON

Mr. Speaker, I rise in my capacity as the chair of the public safety and national security committee.

The hon. member for Lakeland made an intervention last week. Regrettably, I had no notice of the intervention, and I would have preferred to bring my point of intervention after hers, but it is what it is. The hon. member was concerned about the pace at which Motion No. 167 was proceeding through the committee. I want to offer some observations with respect to that particular motion.

It was, in fact, referred to the committee on May 30, 2018, which is roughly a year ago. I would just note that the language of the motion was that it should be “instructed” to undertake, which I would note is not an obligation to undertake. Nevertheless, the committee did hear from the hon. member fairly shortly thereafter, on June 12, as she presented her concerns on Motion No. 167.

Subsequent meetings were held on October 16, October 18, October 23 and October 30. Then, through November and December, the committee was seized with other committee business, namely supplementary estimates, Bill C-83 and a variety of other things. This is an extraordinarily busy committee with private members' bills, private members' motions, supplementary estimates, main estimates and government business.

The first consideration of a draft report occurred on December 4, and then subsequently on March 20. After hearing all of the witnesses and the intervention by the hon. member for Lakeland, receiving four briefs, hearing 19 witnesses and having seven meetings, there is significant disagreement in the committee as to what the report should say, not only the body of the report in recitation of the testimony but also the recommendations. I would be remiss if I did not note that there is significant disagreement in the committee.

In addition to all of the above, I would just note, as you, Mr. Speaker, are considering the hon. member's intervention that, one, the referral is not a mandatory referral, and if the Speaker does do an intervention, I would like that to be taken into consideration; two, this is a very busy committee; three, there is very significant disagreement in the committee as to the way forward; and four, there is consequence to the continuous disruptive nature of House business. Just this motion alone takes all committees off their business, and of course, like all of the other committees, we have suffered the consequence of all these motions.

As due consideration is given to the motion by the hon. member for Lakeland, I would ask that those things be taken into consideration as well.

Motion No. 167—Instruction to the Standing Committee on Public SafetyPoints of OrderGovernment Orders

1:20 p.m.

Liberal

The Assistant Deputy Speaker Liberal Anthony Rota

I will take that under advisement.

The House resumed from May 10 consideration of the motion in relation to the amendments made by the Senate to Bill C-55, An Act to amend the Oceans Act and the Canada Petroleum Resources Act.

Oceans ActGovernment Orders

1:20 p.m.

Liberal

The Assistant Deputy Speaker Liberal Anthony Rota

I wish to inform the House that because of proceedings on the time allocation motion, Government Orders will be extended by 30 minutes.