Debates of May 30th, 2019

Foreign Affairs

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Foreign Affairs is responsible for the delivery of consular services to Canadians abroad. When Canadians are arrested or detained abroad, one of the core principles of Canada's consular services is to ensure that they are treated fairly, in accordance with the rights and standards of the host country.

Protecting consular clients' privacy is paramount. Consular officers are required to comply with the parameters established under the Privacy Act. That is why the government can often only share very limited information with the public in consular cases.

As the Prime Minister and the Minister of Foreign Affairs have very clearly stated, the Government of Canada is not only following but is very engaged in the case of Andre Gauthier, who was extradited from Oman to the United Arab Emirates.

The parliamentary secretary for consular affairs has already advised the House that consular services have been provided to Mr. Gauthier and to his family throughout this case. The Minister of Foreign Affairs and her parliamentary secretary are personally engaged on this case. They have both spoken directly with the family to reassure them of our continued support and our vigilance on this case.

Further, the parliamentary secretary has spoken directly with senior-level foreign officials. She continues to receive frequent updates on Mr. Gauthier's case. In addition, the Consulate General of Canada in Dubai has been engaged on Mr. Gauthier's case from the very outset and is actively working on it. Our officials in the UAE are in close contact with local Emirati authorities.

As the member indicated, Canada has a strong and positive relationship with the United Arab Emirates. We respect, as well, the sovereignty of its legal system. In this context, Canada will continue to convey our humanitarian and compassionate concerns regarding Mr. Gauthier's situation to the Government of the UAE.

In closing, I would like to emphasize that the safety and security of every Canadian is of the utmost importance to the Government of Canada, as is ensuring that the rights afforded by foreign jurisdictions are fully respected in cases that involve our citizens, including Mr. Gauthier.

The Government of Canada's efforts and our diplomatic engagement on this case will continue to focus on these issues as we hold his family, his friends and the people who love him in our hearts and our minds, as we engage in this important case.

[Richard Martel, Conservative, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I respect what my colleague opposite said. We know one thing for sure though: during Mr. Gauthier's extradition from Oman to Dubai, there was a 24-hour period during which there was no news. Nobody knew where he was.

Now his family is desperate. Let me reiterate that this has been going on for some time. We must support his family. That is extremely important.

Can the government promise me that it will take the necessary measures as soon as possible and implement an action plan to bring André Gauthier back home?

I would also like to know if the government is in a position to initiate good negotiations with the United Arab Emirates.

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to begin by recognizing the work that the member for Chicoutimi—Le Fjord is doing on this case. It is tough work for a member of Parliament to represent his constituents well, and I believe he is doing a very fine job at that. The Minister of Foreign Affairs and the parliamentary secretary have been impressed with his care and concern. We thank him for that.

We will continue to follow this case extremely closely. It is important that we use our good relationship with the UAE to discuss Mr. Gauthier's situation in a frank and open manner, and to advocate for his rights to due process under their law, under local law. Government of Canada officials endeavour to work in collaboration with the Emirati government in Mr. Gauthier's best interests.

Finally, the Minister of Foreign Affairs and the parliamentary secretary responsible for consular affairs will continue to raise and bring attention to this case with their counterparts until he is safe.

Transport

[Sheri Benson, NDP, Saskatoon West, SK]

Mr. Speaker, I am again asking the federal government to help provide safe, accessible and affordable transportation to the people of Saskatchewan.

The Saskatchewan Transportation Company is an important issue for the people in my home province. Many people, particularly from rural and indigenous communities, are unable to travel to see loved ones, to go to work, to go to school, to do business or to access medical care following the closure of STC and the pullout of Greyhound service in Saskatchewan.

This is one of my last opportunities to press the government in the House before the end of Parliament, so I am doing what I have been sent here to do: share the experiences of my constituents, give a voice in Parliament to their concerns and advocate on their behalf to get something done.

Abigail Murphy, a woman living with a disability who cannot drive, stated that “the demise of STC has meant the demise of my independence and severely affected my self esteem and the freedom to visit my family.”

Valeria Middleton said, “So now I'm almost a senior and there is no public transportation to get me to those increasingly frequent doctor appointments, I don't see family much anymore and if I was able to financially, I would seriously consider moving to Saskatoon—but who can afford the rents there?”

Michele Kiss says that the end of STC has hurt her environmental business that relied on STC to ship it parts. She said they now are “making a 3-4 hour round trip to the city and back, costing paid employee hours and fuel,” or “keeping our equipment idle and jobs incomplete. It's inconvenient both ways.”

Many indigenous women are forced to hitchhike and are facing violence or discrimination as a result. One driver said two women she helped were “both recovering addicts who have, since December, been hitchhiking daily from a reserve” to seek medical treatment. When they tried to access a medical taxi, they were refused because they were addicts.

Marlene Bear picked up an indigenous hitchhiker who was inappropriately touched by the driver, who later became aggressive when she refused his sexual advances.

A stranded hitchhiker told CTV Regina, “I'm stuck on the highway at Grenfell, trying to get to my family for Christmas. I have minor hypothermia and almost died last night. Me and my dog are going to die out here and it's only getting colder.”

These are the experiences on the ground. People from Saskatchewan are isolated from family, cannot access medical treatment, are losing business, and face discrimination, harassment and potentially death while trying to travel between communities.

Many people hoped the Liberal government would be different. For that matter, where are my Conservative colleagues from Saskatchewan on this issue? There has not been one peep from these MPs on behalf of their constituents. Neither the current Liberal government nor Saskatchewan Conservative MPs are standing up for indigenous women, seniors and people who cannot travel independently.

The half-hearted measures, rhetoric and proverbial passing the buck the people of Saskatchewan get from this Liberal government, and the silence from elected Saskatchewan conservative MPs, is exactly the lack of leadership that led to the crisis on B.C. highways we have come to know as the Highway of Tears. Is that what it is going to take for governments and elected officials to take this seriously, a Saskatchewan highway of tears?

Why is the Liberal government failing to stand up and work hard to provide safe and affordable transportation to the people of Saskatchewan, as it has for people living in other provinces?

[Terry Beech, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Transport]

Mr. Speaker, we recognize the seriousness of the issue of reduced intercity bus service in western Canada that has resulted from Greyhound's exit, and we have offered funding to help address this problem. I appreciate greatly the constituents' specific concerns just raised by the member opposite. I encourage her and hope that she will share those stories with the premier of Saskatchewan as well as with the elected Conservative members in her province.

Our government would like to reiterate that it is the responsibility of provincial governments to economically regulate and support intercity bus services as they see fit. In fact, federal money is on the table and the member opposite's provincial Conservative government is refusing to use it to help the people of Saskatchewan.

Saskatchewan need only look to my province, British Columbia, which has already stepped forward and shown its willingness to partner with us to support intercity bus services within the province of British Columbia. Should the Saskatchewan government move to offer funding for a bus service to fill in the gaps left by Greyhound, the federal government will be there to support it.

In terms of the transportation needs of indigenous communities, as part of our October 31 announcement, we announced that we would offer direct support to indigenous communities that would want to launch a new service to meet their community's needs.

It is important to re-emphasize that private sector operators have taken substantial steps to expand their operations in light of Greyhound's exit, including in Saskatchewan. While these companies may not be able to match Greyhound's service capacity overnight, we want to avoid crowding out private sector entrepreneurs who are working hard to expand their businesses and provide services to Canadians.

Finally, we can assure the member that we remain committed to addressing this issue over the long term. We believe that the immediate funding will address the urgency of this issue. However, it is essential to come up with a sustainable, innovative and stable solution that works for an industry that has seen considerable long-term decline.

We look forward to developing a long-term solution. I appreciate the member's willingness and ability to bring the reality and seriousness of this situation to the House.

[Sheri Benson, NDP, Saskatoon West, SK]

Mr. Speaker, my hon. colleague and I have had this conversation in the House before. I want to reiterate that I really feel that what the federal government has offered is too little, too late. It has been a short-term, half measure for what is an issue of equity and safety for the people of Saskatchewan. The private sector has not stepped up and will not step up.

The Liberal government is doing what many previous governments, Liberal and Conservative, have done before: When the going gets tough and people need their help, governments throw up their hands, say they have tried to act, blame things on everyone else and walk away.

I want to thank the people who shared their stories. I thank my constituent Stephanie Sydiaha and University of Regina professors Cindy Hanson and Joanne Jaffe, as well as all of those who have shared their struggles and stories about the loss of transportation by STC and Greyhound. I want them to keep up this work and keep the pressure on the government. I am on their side.

[Terry Beech, Liberal, Burnaby North—Seymour, BC]

Mr. Speaker, no relationship is more important than the one between the Government of Canada and indigenous peoples. Like our government, the provinces and territories have a lead role in this area.

That being said, we recognize the impact these reductions have had on indigenous communities, and we prioritize the safety of indigenous peoples. That is why we announced that we would provide support to indigenous communities affected by Greyhound's reductions. This support would be provided directly to indigenous communities and thus would not require a cost-sharing partnership with the provinces. It is something that can be acted on now.

We will continue to work with provinces and territories over the next year to develop longer term solutions to the intercity bus reductions. We hope this long-term approach, combined with the short-term funding, will respond effectively to Greyhound's reductions and demonstrate our commitment to ensuring that all Canadians have the access they need to transportation.

Justice

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Mr. Speaker, Admiral Norman is owed an apology by the Liberal Party leader. It is an absolute disgrace to the women and men who have served our country in uniform that the Liberal leader continues to refuse to apologize for trying to destroy the military career of an honourable gentleman. The fact the Liberal leader chose to run out of the House of Commons moments before the vote was taken on the motion by my hon. colleague from Milton speaks volumes to the character of the leader of the Liberal Party and those individuals in his party who still refuse to admit to the horrible wrong done to Admiral Norman. They are apology deniers.

I assure members of the Liberal Party that their shameful treatment of an honourable soldier has not gone unnoticed by soldiers and veterans. I was moved to tears, as was Admiral Norman, when he shared the story of a World War II veteran sending him $5, as that was what the veteran could afford, for the admiral's legal defence fund. It was necessary for members of the public to come to the aid of Admiral Mark Norman. The Liberal government was trying to bankrupt the admiral into submission by refusing to pay his legal bills, despite payment of the latter being the usual action taken when a Crown employee is party to legal action as a consequence of his duties as a public servant.

We live in a fearful time when someone of the stature of Vice-Admiral Mark Norman can be subjected to the type of political witch hunt he has been subject to by the Liberal Party. Given how hard the government is struggling to withhold evidence, the way it withheld evidence from Admiral Mark Norman's lawyers so that he could not properly defend himself, there must be something very terrible to be uncovered by the Senate investigation.

Political interference in an RCMP investigation and a court case is a slippery slope that no government in Canada should be sliding down. Canadians agree with Conservatives on this point. This is what some Canadians had to say in the May 22, 2019, edition of the Ottawa Citizen in response to its story on the Admiral Mark Norman Liberal scandal:

Your in-depth article on the two-year ordeal of Vice-Admiral Mark Norman, his wife and daughter was incisive and clearly showed how politics drove this outrage.

More telling, though, is that our prime minister is always ready with an apology, a tear and a hanky for any pedestrian issue that provides an opportunity for a media photo-op —except when he is directly responsible for the debacle that affected the reputation of an officer with integrity.

Not only is Norman due an apology and compensation, he should be at National Defence Headquarters as Chief of Defence Staff, replacing Jon Vance, who should join Michael Wernick (formerly of the Privy Council Office) in obscurity and retirement.

Those were the comments of Adele White of Ottawa.

Then there were the following comments by Bill Russell of Ottawa:

A frightening attempt to hide records. Thank you for the most recent instalment in the Vice-Admiral Mark Norman story. There are many disturbing aspects to the tale of his defence. The senior echelons of the Canadian military have clearly not covered themselves in glory.

One of the most offensive and frightening revelations—reported in December 2018 and mentioned again in David Pugliese’s most recent contribution—relates to the actions undertaken within the Department of National Defence to stymie attempts by the vice-admiral’s legal team to obtain information deemed relevant to his defence from departmental files. The conscious effort to hide references to Norman in the records is a great concern for anyone who believes that the proceedings were about “justice.” The tone of arrogance and self-satisfaction in the words of the senior officer who is quoted in a Dec. 18 Ottawa Citizen story —“Don’t worry, this isn’t our first rodeo. We made sure we never used his name. Send back the nil return.”—is chilling.

Thankfully, the moral compass of a more junior staff member, whose name is protected by a publication ban because of fears of professional reprisal for coming forward, was not skewed.

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of National Defence]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for his question during tonight's adjournment debate. This is not the first time this topic has come up during the adjournment debate.

It is important to reiterate that the charges against Vice-Admiral Norman have been stayed. As the Public Prosecution Service of Canada confirmed, every decision was made independently and no other factors were considered in this decision, nor was there any contact or influence from outside the PPSC, including political influence in either the initial decision to prosecute Mr. Norman or in the decision to stay the charges. We have said this a number of times in the House. Despite the opposition's efforts to raise this matter repeatedly, there was no political influence or any other kind of influence. We hope the opposition will respect the judicial process.

My colleague is well aware that the House unanimously adopted a motion to recognize Vice-Admiral Norman's service and to apologize to Mr. Norman and his family. The chief of the defence staff and Vice-Admiral Norman met last week and had a very cordial discussion.

With respect to legal fees, the deputy minister was very clear. She examined the current policy governing Vice-Admiral Norman's application for reimbursement of legal expenses. She shared her analysis with us, we agree with her and we are proceeding. Further information will be made available in due course as discussions are ongoing.

As we already addressed this matter in a previous adjournment debate, I would like to take this opportunity to speak about the investments and support our government is providing our men and women of the Canadian Armed Forces, unlike the previous government, which repeatedly cut the defence budget and veterans' services.

Our government has made real progress on the single most important element of our defence policy: taking care of our people. We established the Canadian Armed Forces transition group to improve military members' experiences as they transition to life after military service. We also rolled out the seamless Canada initiative to improve the coordination of services across provinces and ease the burden of moving for military members and their families.

We have also enhanced services and expanded access to military family resource centres, and I had the opportunity to learn more about them when I visited the centre in Gagetown, New Brunswick. Their staff is doing amazing work in providing all the necessary services to the women and men of the Canadian Armed Forces during their transition, particularly by helping them find housing and a family physician when they are posted to another military base.

We also expanded relocation benefits available for military members by updating the Canadian Armed Forces relocation policies. Furthermore, we enacted a retroactive pay increase for military members to ensure world-class compensation for our women and men in uniform.

Canadians can therefore be proud of the work accomplished by the members of the Canadian Armed Forces, whether it be responding to natural disasters, during overseas missions, providing search and rescue or defending our sovereignty. That is why taking care of our men and women in uniform has been of the utmost importance. The government and indeed all Canadians have a duty to recognize the incredible work and contributions of the members of the Canadian Armed Forces. We are very grateful for their work. We will invest as much as possible to ensure that our men and women in uniform have the tools and equipment necessary to do their jobs.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Mr. Speaker, finally, this is a letter from Joe Spence, from Ottawa:

I am a non-partisan person. I have voted for all three major parties in one election or another.

In October, I will be forced to vote against the Liberals because I want answers in the cases of Mark Norman and [the member from Vancouver—Granville]. The Liberals refuse to give me the answers, so I will have to vote for a party that I hope will.

I suspect that many people will be voting to get answers.

When will the Prime Minister apologize and have Vice-Admiral Norman reinstated as vice-chief of the defence staff?

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Mr. Speaker, as we have said many times in the House, General Vance and Vice-Admiral Norman recently had a cordial discussion. We will have more information in the coming weeks.

With regard to the legal fees, the deputy minister reviewed the policy in place and found that Vice-Admiral Norman's legal fees could be reimbursed, and that is what we will do.

What is clear is that we respect the judicial process. We do not have the right to interfere in that process. The Public Prosecution Service of Canada was very clear: there was no influence, including political influence, in the case of Vice-Admiral Norman.

[The Deputy Speaker, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

The motion to adjourn the House is now deemed to have been adopted. Accordingly, this House stands adjourned until tomorrow at 10 a.m., pursuant to order made Tuesday, May 28, 2019, and Standing Order 24(1).

(The House adjourned at 6:59 p.m.)