Debates of Nov. 24th, 2020

Fisheries and Oceans—Main Estimates, 2020-21

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Madam Chair, we welcome Oceana's fisheries audit, and we will be reviewing its recommendations, but our government has made several key investments that are already showing progress toward sustainable fisheries and strengthening our oceans' protections.

The department is continuing to complete rebuilding plans for priority stocks. Since 2018, DFO has completed rebuilding plans for six of these 19 stocks, and a further two have improved to the point that they are no longer in the critical zone. For the remaining priority stocks without rebuilding plans, DFO has specific fisheries management measures in place. These measures are going to ensure that the limited fishing of the stocks does not compromise the rebuilding.

We know that the fisheries rebuilding plans are important, and that is one of the reasons why we put them in the modernized Fisheries Act. We are going to continue to work to make sure that we are rebuilding stocks.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Madam Chair, federal fishing regulations have severely restricted access and opportunities for salmon fishing in B.C., especially around Vancouver Island, by using anglers as scapegoats in an attempt to look like salmon are being protected. Well-recognized organizations such as the Sport Fishing Advisory Board, which has worked with DFO for decades, recommended mark-selective fisheries, which would have a near-zero impact on stocks of concern yet would provide opportunity and economic relief in the area.

Can the minister provide an estimate of how much revenue has been lost due to the closure of the public recreational fisheries on the west coast in 2019-20?

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Madam Chair, our government acknowledges the challenges being faced by Pacific salmon fishery participants, including recreational anglers. We are also carefully considering requests for a mark-selective hatchery-origin chinook and mark-selective fishery opportunities. Further consultations are planned to seek input on benefits and costs of these approaches as well as further discussions.

As I said earlier, this is not something I am averse to. It is something in which we want to make sure that we have the right path forward, and that is what we are working on.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Finance and to the Minister of Middle Class Prosperity and Associate Minister of Finance]

Madam Chair, I will begin my 15 minutes of questions with the minister on the issue of the moderate livelihood fishery.

Obviously, in Nova Scotia in recent months, this issue has been the subject of much coverage and controversy. When I speak with those who are members of indigenous communities who want to exercise their right to a moderate livelihood, it is clear that they rely on the law we adopted in Canada in the treaties of the 1760s. Of course, the right was embedded more fully and with some more clarity in the Marshall decision of the late nineties.

One of the things I find to be a major source of frustration is that when I talk to people independently, either indigenous fishers or commercial fishers, a lot of them want the same things. They have grown accustomed to fishing alongside one another. They both, for the most part, recognize the existence of the right to take part in a moderate livelihood fishery. I find it frustrating because my career before politics was in litigation, where two sides would come together completely in disagreement on virtually everything, yet we would often come to a resolution.

In the present instance, I hear that there is an appetite to recognize a moderate livelihood, but it is peppered with fears. There are sincerely held fears among commercial fishers about the ability to practice their fishery, because they are worried about the conservation outcomes that may arise if there is increased effort placed on the fishery. They are subject to rules that have been built up over decades. There are people in my office saying that they want to support increased participation among indigenous fishers, but they are worried for their livelihoods.

I am curious if the minister can offer some comfort or commentary around the subject of conservation and the importance that she, as minister, will place on that very important principle as any kind of a framework is developed to implement the right to a moderate livelihood.

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Madam Chair, at DFO every decision we make is based on conservation. It is the number one priority. We want to make sure that the fishery is sustainable for the long term, for generations to come.

I will say that this is a goal shared by commercial harvesters as well as indigenous fishers. This is something that we all agree on. What we need to find is the path forward. I understand that, in coastal communities, our commercial harvesters are worried for their livelihoods.

We need to make sure that we are not increasing fishing efforts. That is one of the top priorities for me, as well as making sure that conservation objectives are met. These are tricky negotiations, as I have said. They are full of bumps along the way, but we are committed to making sure that we find the path forward to implement the moderate livelihood fishery, address the concerns of commercial harvesters, make sure conservation is the number one priority and that there is not an increased fishing effort.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

Madam Chair, I will shift gear slightly, though I will remain on the subject of conservation.

As the minister knows, I represent two coasts within my constituency: the eastern shore of Nova Scotia and the Northumberland Strait. On the Northumberland Strait is a marine refuge that protects juvenile American lobster stocks. On the eastern shore there has been some discussion in recent years about a proposed marine-protected area, or at least an area of interest for potential conservation going forward.

I have had many conversations with the minister about the area off the eastern shore. One of the questions that I receive from local fishers, particularly with the lobster fishery, is whether a proposed marine-protected area would be designed to protect the ocean for the fishermen or from them. It has become clear to me over the course of the conversation that there is no limitation that would be placed on the lobster fishery, but I am curious.

Can the minister talk about the importance of community engagement and consultation, so that we do not implement any kind of a conservation measure against the will or interest of the community?

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Madam Chair, when it comes to marine-protected areas, we know the ones that are the most successful are the ones built from the ground up with the communities, making sure there is active engagement. The Eastern Shore Islands area of interest encompasses exceptional coastal habitats, home to a very diverse range of marine species. I remain committed to a broad and inclusive process focused on the conservation of this remarkable area.

Our next step is to meet with the commercial fishers and other community members on the eastern shore to discuss and carefully consider their priorities for the area. We are committed to continuing to work with local communities to effectively conserve this unique place for those who make their living there.

One of the reasons we need marine-protected areas is to make sure we have fishing for generations to come. This is not to stop fishing; this is to make sure it is sustainable for the long term.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

Madam Chair, during the previous Parliament I had the privilege of serving as the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Environment and Climate Change. In that role, I spent a lot of time working on conservation and came to learn about a massive potential extinction event when it comes to our biodiversity across the planet. Over the past 50 years alone, two-thirds or more of the world's wildlife has vanished. The Minister of Fisheries and Oceans has a responsibility to protect biodiversity within our oceans. In particular, on the east coast with the North Atlantic right whale and on the west coast with the southern resident killer whale, I am curious if the minister can offer insight as to what measures we will be implementing so these national treasures will remain here for generations long after we are gone.

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Madam Chair, with respect to the North Atlantic right whale, we have taken measures to make sure we protect this iconic species. I would like to say this was done in collaboration and co-operation with harvesters, environmental stakeholder groups and communities. Making sure we protect this species was important to all of us. We put some pretty stringent measures in place this year and I am happy to say there were no entanglements of right whales in Atlantic Canada. That was extremely beneficial. We know it has been a challenge for a number of our coastal fishermen, but this is something we have developed in collaboration with them. We are going to continue to work with them this year to see what happens and how we can best move forward addressing their concerns.

Making sure we are addressing the concerns around ghost gear is another big initiative we have put in place. There is far too much ghost gear in the ocean. We have put funding in place to collect that gear. We are working with our fishers to make sure that gear is retrieved so there will be no further entanglements. We are going to continue to work to make sure we protect the North Atlantic right whale.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

Madam Chair, of course in Nova Scotia the seafood sector is going to remain an important economic driver going forward. Pre-pandemic, I was thrilled to see a major investment in the Halifax international airport that was going to have a serious expansion of the air cargo logistics park to seriously increase the export capacity of seafood from our waters to kitchen tables all over the world. One of the things I have seen is when one deals with folks in the seafood industry, whether producers, harvesters, processors, whoever it may be, those who are able to adapt and innovate within their businesses are often able to create a new product or improve the delivery of existing products in a manner that allows them to hire more people in our communities and keep jobs in rural Nova Scotia. Can the minister comment on the importance of the Atlantic fisheries fund to allow those working in the industry to grow their business and keep more of our kids at home?

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Madam Chair, the Atlantic fisheries fund is a real success story. It was so successful that we have actually expanded it to include Quebec and B.C. as well. This is a fund that is available for fishers and producers to innovate their businesses in order to scale up or do value-added. We know there is a huge market for our seafood products around the world. We want to make sure we are doing everything to we can to support the industry as we grow our fish and seafood sector.

COVID-19 took its toll on the industry, but I am very proud of the investments we made there as well with the seafood stabilization fund. We were able to provide money to processors who were able to better provide freezers and cold storage, which was a gap we had seen. We wanted to make sure that they had the ability to invest in PPE and all of the measures they needed in order to keep their workers safe during the pandemic.

We are going to continue to work with industry to make sure we are supporting them, so that our wonderful fish and seafood products can go around the world.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

Madam Chair, conservation of our wetlands and waterways is extremely important. I have been fortunate to work alongside members of the community who have been working on river restoration projects along with West River, for example, in Sheet Harbour, and along the St. Mary's River throughout the District of St. Mary's and elsewhere.

These are beautiful watersheds that could be enjoyed for recreation, and once had the ability to actually host sport fishing for Atlantic salmon. As a result of a number of factors over time, the sustainability of the salmon populations in these rivers has been severely diminished. Through the work of these associations, we have seen serious returns of salmon populations, in particular during the previous Parliament. Through the coastal restoration fund, a multi-million dollar investment saw each of these rivers have restoration work completed. I recently took a tour with some of the members of the St. Mary's River Association.

I am curious to hear the minister's thoughts as to whether these kinds of investments could one day see a return of a recreational salmon fishery on rivers on the Eastern Shore and the District of St. Mary's in my riding of Central Nova?

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Madam Chair, it is interesting that my hon. colleague brought up Atlantic salmon and the challenges they are facing with regard to habitat degradation. We have seen the same problems on the west coast with the wild Pacific salmon. Investing in coastal restoration is extremely important. The habitat for salmon, both on the west coast and the east coast, is critical to making sure that we are able to grow those populations of fish so that we have a future fishery. I have met with a number of anglers and salmon enthusiasts in Atlantic Canada about ways forward.

We are going to continue to work with those communities and organizations to find the best way to make sure that we are addressing the concerns around the decline of Atlantic salmon as well. This is a priority for our government. We know that no species should become extinct or endangered. We want to make sure we are doing everything we can do bring back those extremely important populations.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

Madam Chair, the COVID-19 pandemic has changed everything about the communities that we live in, the way we work and the way that we live. During the last commercial fishing season, as a result of the timing of the pandemic in the spring, not far off from when my community goes to fish, there were a lot of people who had serious worries about their health and working closely on deck with others.

Obviously, record levels of benefits were extended to help people whose employment income or income from harvesting had been diminished. These new investments were put in place to help them get through a time of difficulty. Nova Scotia is seeing cases spike. There were 37 new cases announced just recently and it is trending, frankly, in the wrong direction. I encourage anybody watching this at home to follow public health advice.

Should cases continue to rise, would the minister be willing to continue to support commercial harvesters as they struggle to keep food on the table with the uncertainty that COVID-19 brings to their ability to earn a livelihood from harvesting seafood?

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Madam Chair, the fish harvester benefit and grant program delivered financial support that was much needed in our commercial fisheries. We recognized early on that with the measures we put in place as a government, they did not qualify because of the way that their enterprises were set up.

Our government has said we will continue to work to make sure that all Canadians are looked after. We are going to continue to do that as we get through this pandemic. As my hon. colleague said, people should be paying attention to public health guidelines, but right now we are very focused on making sure that we are working to address the concerns we are hearing in our communities and from those on our coastal waters. We will make sure that we are there to support our fishing sector.

[John Williamson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Madam Chair, I will be splitting my time this evening with the member for Abbotsford.

It was an interesting discussion that we just heard. The minister was much clearer tonight than she was at committee the other day on conservation being the number one priority of her department. That is good news. She also added today that her goal is no added pressure on the fishing industry. I think she was talking about the lobster industry, in particular.

How does she propose to do that when there are potentially many more entrants set to come into this important industry? There are no easy solutions, she said, but we would like to hear her answer.

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, Minister of Fisheries]

Madam Chair, since day one I have said that conservation is going to be our number one priority when it comes to the moderate livelihood fishery and Atlantic Canada. This is a goal we share with first nations as well as with commercial harvesters. I am never going to do anything that is going to challenge conservation. We need to make sure that the fishery is sustainable for the long term, and that is what we are going to do.

[John Williamson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Madam Chair, I appreciate that, but the minister did not answer the question.

With potentially so many more participants coming into this industry, she stated that she does not want to add pressure and conservation is her goal. How does she propose to balance all these competing interests to ensure the fishery remains healthy and viable in the years ahead?

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Madam Chair, we are currently negotiating with first nations to implement their fishing plans. As I have said many times, we do not negotiate in public. I cannot prejudge what the outcome of those negotiations will be. We are working with first nations to make sure that we implement their moderate livelihood right, but we also recognize that the commercial harvesters have concerns that we will be addressing as well.

[John Williamson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Madam Chair, is the minister considering quotas in the lobster industry?

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Madam Chair, no.

[John Williamson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Madam Chair, that is good.

Premium Brands Holdings Corporation, in its presentation to investors, says that the benefit of the Mi'kmaq coalition purchasing 50% of Clearwater is a “strategic long-term relationship for the sale of inshore fishery catches”.

Can the minister advise the House how her department plans to ensure that only in-season DFO-regulated lobster harvested in the inshore will be enforced?

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Madam Chair, our government welcomes a collaboration between industry and first nations to grow our Canadian seafood industry. This project represents a positive step in building strong partnerships between indigenous communities and the commercial seafood sector. We are continuing to work with all our partners in the seafood sector to promote sustainability and productive commercial fisheries across Canada.

This, of course, is a relatively new deal. We are still doing our due diligence on this new purchase, and we will continue to do the work we need to do to make sure that we are protecting the Canadian fishery.

[John Williamson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Madam Chair, the other day, the minister complained I was putting words in her mouth. She complained the leader of the opposition did the same thing tonight. I would ask the minister to get away from the talking points and answer these questions.

Last year, Parliament passed Bill C-68, which amended the Fisheries Act. Conservatives supported elements of these changes because they enshrined in the law two key principles: the owner-operator and the fleet separation policy. This legislation exempted first nations from these provisions. The proposed Clearwater buyout sees 100% of Clearwater's Canadian licences being held by FNC Holdings, a company 100% owned by two first nations, and those two first nations are exempt from the inshore fleet separation and owner-operator regulations of the act.

Will the minister put as a condition of her approval on the transfer of these licences, which she is entitled to do, that FNC Holdings will not be able acquire inshore fishery licences, contrary to the spirit of the law passed last year?

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Madam Chair, I am quite glad my hon. colleague brought up the Fisheries Act and the modernization of the Fisheries Act. Of course, that had to be done because the previous government, of which he was a member, absolutely gutted the Fisheries Act. It took away protection for fish and fish habitat. We put that back in.

With regard to owner-operator, this is something I have been committed to since the first day I was elected. We are working toward making sure we have those regulations in place. This is something that is critically important to our rural coastal communities. I am going to continue to work to make sure we address it.