Debates of Nov. 24th, 2020

Fisheries and Oceans—Main Estimates, 2020-21

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Madam Chair, as I have said, we have had to take very difficult measures to protect the salmon species. We will continue to take measures. We have seen a rapid decline. It is alarming and concerning to see what is happening with the wild salmon stocks in B.C. We know these measures are difficult for recreational fishers. They are difficult for everybody, but they have to be taken to make sure—

[The Deputy Chair, NDP, Carol Hughes]

The hon. member.

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Red Deer—Lacombe, AB]

Madam Chair, I forgot to mention at the start that I would like to split my time with the member for West Nova. Am I at the halfway point already?

[The Deputy Chair, NDP, Carol Hughes]

The member can ask a very quick question of the minister.

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Red Deer—Lacombe, AB]

Madam Chair, what do the minister's constituents tell her, especially those with active knowledge in commercial fisheries, about pinnipeds, their abundance and their effects on fish stocks? The minister was the chair of the fisheries committee and a member of the committee. Numerous reports, by members of Parliament from all parties, came to the same conclusion unanimously that pinniped control is needed.

Where is the minister on this issue?

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Madam Chair, we are working to use the best available science when making decisions with regard to management and Atlantic Canada DFO has documented the impacts of the grey seals on the fish stocks in the southern Gulf of St. Lawrence and British Columbia. We are working with partners in doing more science to evaluate the impact of harbour seals and sea lions—

[The Deputy Chair, NDP, Carol Hughes]

The hon. member for West Nova.

[Chris d'Entremont, Conservative, West Nova, NS]

Madam Chair, I thank the minister for being here tonight especially at this late hour here in Nova Scotia. I want to take moderate livelihood and put it to the side just for a moment.

When did the minister receive her first briefings on illegal lobster activity in St. Mary's Bay?

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, Minister of Fisheries]

Madam Chair, I would say that I have been having briefings with my department on illegal fishing right across the country since I was first appointed as minister. I am not really sure where my hon. colleague is going with this.

[Chris d'Entremont, Conservative, West Nova, NS]

Madam Chair, the question revolves around the previous minister of DFO, Mr. Thibault. He said for a number of years there has been illegal lobster activity going on in St. Mary's Bay.

When that was first brought up to the minister? I know she has written letters for illegal activity in her own riding prior to becoming minister. When did she first start talking about this within the department?

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Madam Chair, with regard to illegal activity, recognizing that first nations have a right to a moderate livelihood fishery, as well as to an FSC fishery that happens in St. Mary's Bay. CMP officers have been active there in removing traps that were not tagged or did not meet qualifications. Of course, I would have had briefings on that very early on when I was appointed minister.

[Chris d'Entremont, Conservative, West Nova, NS]

Madam Chair, the minister was just saying there were routine inspections of lobster traps in St. Mary's Bay over the weekend.

Can she give us idea of how many traps were pulled and what the findings were?

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Madam Chair, I will say to the hon. member I do not have that information in front of me. I know that CMP was on the water on the weekend. I know there were traps pulled, but I do not have the exact numbers.

[Chris d'Entremont, Conservative, West Nova, NS]

Madam Chair, according to the CMP officials in the paper, during their patrols they observed several issues of non-compliance under the Fisheries Act. Some of them included untagged, unapproved and tampered lobster tags, using female crabs for bait and non-conforming traps.

Does “non-compliance” mean they are illegal traps?

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Madam Chair, if a lobster trap does not meet requirements, it will be seized by CMP. There are specific requirements for all traps in order to make sure they have things like the right escape hatches. Those are all things the CMP officers will be looking for as they are looking at traps.

[Chris d'Entremont, Conservative, West Nova, NS]

Madam Chair, the officials also stated that there is an ongoing investigation into the matter.

Will the minister tell us when exactly the investigation is going to be complete, will charges be laid and will she commit to making that investigation public?

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Madam Chair, as my hon. colleague well knows, I cannot comment on ongoing investigations into anything. That would be inappropriate, and I will leave it at that.

[Chris d'Entremont, Conservative, West Nova, NS]

Madam Chair, we hoped we would have an idea of how long this might be going on. Everybody in the world who has access to Internet saw the traps that were pulled and the article in The Chronicle Herald. I hoped the investigation could happen quickly.

How many routine patrols has the minister ordered over the last number of months?

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Madam Chair, I do not order C&P officers to do their job. They are law enforcement officers who work outside of the minister. I do not direct them in any way, shape or form. They are professionals who know what their job is and they do it well.

[Chris d'Entremont, Conservative, West Nova, NS]

Madam Chair, I will move on because I have so many questions and not enough time.

In testimony at committee the other night, when the minister was asked about the definition of “moderate livelihood”, she said she did not have one, that it was something to be decided on by the community she was dealing with. We have an ATIP on a moderate livelihood gap analysis with 21 pages of the 23 pages blacked out. Could you table that document for folks to see?

[The Deputy Chair, NDP, Carol Hughes]

I would remind the member he is to address all questions and comments through the Chair.

The hon. minister.

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Madam Chair, with respect to the definition of “moderate livelihood”, that is not something the Government of Canada is going to impose on first nations. That is determined by the first nations communities. Every community looks at this differently. We want to ensure we work with them in the negotiation process to address what a moderate livelihood is to them.

The last thing a first nations community wants is the Government of Canada dictating to it what it think a moderate livelihood should be.

[Chris d'Entremont, Conservative, West Nova, NS]

Madam Chair, the minister already has a definition. Her department did a gap analysis on it. We have a document with 21 pages blacked out. Therefore, it would be nice for the sake of transparency that we see what those are.

I have a quick question about Mr. Surette. The minister said that she was consulting with the industry. Which industry members suggested Mr. Surette?

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Madam Chair, with respect to Mr. Surette, what I said was that a number of ministry representatives wanted to see someone they could talk to outside of DFO. That is what we have put in place with Mr. Surette. He is, as the member for West Nova knows, a very well-respected member of the community. He is someone who has a knowledge of fisheries issues and he will be a valuable asset to us as we move this file forward.

[Chris d'Entremont, Conservative, West Nova, NS]

Madam Chair, commercial fishery districts 33 and 34 are opening next Monday. Why did the department ask for an interim report well after that season got under way? Why would it not have asked for that before?

Can the minister table the terms of reference from Mr. Surette?