House of Commons Hansard #35 of the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was chair.

Topics

Fisheries and Oceans—Main Estimates, 2020-21Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

10:20 p.m.

Liberal

Bernadette Jordan Liberal South Shore—St. Margarets, NS

Madam Chair, we are working to use the best available science when making decisions with regard to management and Atlantic Canada DFO has documented the impacts of the grey seals on the fish stocks in the southern Gulf of St. Lawrence and British Columbia. We are working with partners in doing more science to evaluate the impact of harbour seals and sea lions—

Fisheries and Oceans—Main Estimates, 2020-21Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

10:20 p.m.

NDP

The Deputy Chair NDP Carol Hughes

The hon. member for West Nova.

Fisheries and Oceans—Main Estimates, 2020-21Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

10:20 p.m.

Conservative

Chris d'Entremont Conservative West Nova, NS

Madam Chair, I thank the minister for being here tonight especially at this late hour here in Nova Scotia. I want to take moderate livelihood and put it to the side just for a moment.

When did the minister receive her first briefings on illegal lobster activity in St. Mary's Bay?

Fisheries and Oceans—Main Estimates, 2020-21Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

10:20 p.m.

South Shore—St. Margarets Nova Scotia

Liberal

Bernadette Jordan LiberalMinister of Fisheries

Madam Chair, I would say that I have been having briefings with my department on illegal fishing right across the country since I was first appointed as minister. I am not really sure where my hon. colleague is going with this.

Fisheries and Oceans—Main Estimates, 2020-21Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

10:20 p.m.

Conservative

Chris d'Entremont Conservative West Nova, NS

Madam Chair, the question revolves around the previous minister of DFO, Mr. Thibault. He said for a number of years there has been illegal lobster activity going on in St. Mary's Bay.

When that was first brought up to the minister? I know she has written letters for illegal activity in her own riding prior to becoming minister. When did she first start talking about this within the department?

Fisheries and Oceans—Main Estimates, 2020-21Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

10:20 p.m.

Liberal

Bernadette Jordan Liberal South Shore—St. Margarets, NS

Madam Chair, with regard to illegal activity, recognizing that first nations have a right to a moderate livelihood fishery, as well as to an FSC fishery that happens in St. Mary's Bay. CMP officers have been active there in removing traps that were not tagged or did not meet qualifications. Of course, I would have had briefings on that very early on when I was appointed minister.

Fisheries and Oceans—Main Estimates, 2020-21Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

10:20 p.m.

Conservative

Chris d'Entremont Conservative West Nova, NS

Madam Chair, the minister was just saying there were routine inspections of lobster traps in St. Mary's Bay over the weekend.

Can she give us idea of how many traps were pulled and what the findings were?

Fisheries and Oceans—Main Estimates, 2020-21Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

10:20 p.m.

Liberal

Bernadette Jordan Liberal South Shore—St. Margarets, NS

Madam Chair, I will say to the hon. member I do not have that information in front of me. I know that CMP was on the water on the weekend. I know there were traps pulled, but I do not have the exact numbers.

Fisheries and Oceans—Main Estimates, 2020-21Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

10:20 p.m.

Conservative

Chris d'Entremont Conservative West Nova, NS

Madam Chair, according to the CMP officials in the paper, during their patrols they observed several issues of non-compliance under the Fisheries Act. Some of them included untagged, unapproved and tampered lobster tags, using female crabs for bait and non-conforming traps.

Does “non-compliance” mean they are illegal traps?

Fisheries and Oceans—Main Estimates, 2020-21Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

10:20 p.m.

Liberal

Bernadette Jordan Liberal South Shore—St. Margarets, NS

Madam Chair, if a lobster trap does not meet requirements, it will be seized by CMP. There are specific requirements for all traps in order to make sure they have things like the right escape hatches. Those are all things the CMP officers will be looking for as they are looking at traps.

Fisheries and Oceans—Main Estimates, 2020-21Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

10:20 p.m.

Conservative

Chris d'Entremont Conservative West Nova, NS

Madam Chair, the officials also stated that there is an ongoing investigation into the matter.

Will the minister tell us when exactly the investigation is going to be complete, will charges be laid and will she commit to making that investigation public?

Fisheries and Oceans—Main Estimates, 2020-21Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

10:25 p.m.

Liberal

Bernadette Jordan Liberal South Shore—St. Margarets, NS

Madam Chair, as my hon. colleague well knows, I cannot comment on ongoing investigations into anything. That would be inappropriate, and I will leave it at that.

Fisheries and Oceans—Main Estimates, 2020-21Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

10:25 p.m.

Conservative

Chris d'Entremont Conservative West Nova, NS

Madam Chair, we hoped we would have an idea of how long this might be going on. Everybody in the world who has access to Internet saw the traps that were pulled and the article in The Chronicle Herald. I hoped the investigation could happen quickly.

How many routine patrols has the minister ordered over the last number of months?

Fisheries and Oceans—Main Estimates, 2020-21Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

10:25 p.m.

Liberal

Bernadette Jordan Liberal South Shore—St. Margarets, NS

Madam Chair, I do not order C&P officers to do their job. They are law enforcement officers who work outside of the minister. I do not direct them in any way, shape or form. They are professionals who know what their job is and they do it well.

Fisheries and Oceans—Main Estimates, 2020-21Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

10:25 p.m.

Conservative

Chris d'Entremont Conservative West Nova, NS

Madam Chair, I will move on because I have so many questions and not enough time.

In testimony at committee the other night, when the minister was asked about the definition of “moderate livelihood”, she said she did not have one, that it was something to be decided on by the community she was dealing with. We have an ATIP on a moderate livelihood gap analysis with 21 pages of the 23 pages blacked out. Could you table that document for folks to see?

Fisheries and Oceans—Main Estimates, 2020-21Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

10:25 p.m.

NDP

The Deputy Chair NDP Carol Hughes

I would remind the member he is to address all questions and comments through the Chair.

The hon. minister.

Fisheries and Oceans—Main Estimates, 2020-21Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

10:25 p.m.

Liberal

Bernadette Jordan Liberal South Shore—St. Margarets, NS

Madam Chair, with respect to the definition of “moderate livelihood”, that is not something the Government of Canada is going to impose on first nations. That is determined by the first nations communities. Every community looks at this differently. We want to ensure we work with them in the negotiation process to address what a moderate livelihood is to them.

The last thing a first nations community wants is the Government of Canada dictating to it what it thinks a moderate livelihood should be.

Fisheries and Oceans—Main Estimates, 2020-21Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

10:25 p.m.

Conservative

Chris d'Entremont Conservative West Nova, NS

Madam Chair, the minister already has a definition. Her department did a gap analysis on it. We have a document with 21 pages blacked out. Therefore, it would be nice for the sake of transparency that we see what those are.

I have a quick question about Mr. Surette. The minister said that she was consulting with the industry. Which industry members suggested Mr. Surette?

Fisheries and Oceans—Main Estimates, 2020-21Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

10:25 p.m.

Liberal

Bernadette Jordan Liberal South Shore—St. Margarets, NS

Madam Chair, with respect to Mr. Surette, what I said was that a number of ministry representatives wanted to see someone they could talk to outside of DFO. That is what we have put in place with Mr. Surette. He is, as the member for West Nova knows, a very well-respected member of the community. He is someone who has a knowledge of fisheries issues and he will be a valuable asset to us as we move this file forward.

Fisheries and Oceans—Main Estimates, 2020-21Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

10:25 p.m.

Conservative

Chris d'Entremont Conservative West Nova, NS

Madam Chair, commercial fishery districts 33 and 34 are opening next Monday. Why did the department ask for an interim report well after that season got under way? Why would it not have asked for that before?

Can the minister table the terms of reference from Mr. Surette?

Fisheries and Oceans—Main Estimates, 2020-21Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

10:25 p.m.

Liberal

Bernadette Jordan Liberal South Shore—St. Margarets, NS

Madam Chair, it is important to note that an interim report is due at the end of December, but the final report is not due until March. Mr. Surette has been working on this for a while now. He has already had a number of meetings with commercial harvesters and with stakeholders. We have regular updates from him. I know that it is important that we get an interim report from him in December, and he is going to continue to do the work he needs to do in order for us to move this forward.

Fisheries and Oceans—Main Estimates, 2020-21Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

November 24th, 2020 / 10:25 p.m.

Vaughan—Woodbridge Ontario

Liberal

Francesco Sorbara LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of National Revenue

Madam Chair, it is great to see you again as we continue our conversation this evening. I will be sharing my time with the member for Saanich—Gulf Islands. I hope to speak for eight minutes or so because I have a question or two for the minister.

I am rising with a bit of nostalgia. It will be great to chat with my hon. colleague, the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans, as someone who now represents a very urban riding in Vaughan—Woodbridge but who grew up in a small town in northern British Columbia called Prince Rupert, and who still has family there and whose parents immigrated to Canada. My mother and her four or five sisters all, at one point in their lives, worked at a cannery, whether it was B.C. Packers or J.S. McMillan Fisheries or the co-op fisheries. Prince Rupert is known as the capital of halibut, as one sees when one drives into the town.

I have very many fond memories. I actually worked at a cannery growing up, and on the weekends my family would go out for a picnic along the Skeena River and go fishing for chum, sockeye, spring salmon or coho, and sometimes trout. It would be a very fascinating time.

I would like to echo some of the things that the minister has spoken about today, and let Canadians know about some of the great work that is being done at Fisheries and Oceans under the minister and this government.

Canadians know that climate change is real and we are witnessing impacts that are directly affecting Canadians and our coastal communities. With the longest coastline in the world, our oceans are home to diverse ecosystems that support not only marine life but Canadians across the country who depend on it. With warming temperatures, we are seeing warming waters and ocean acidification, which is leading to less oxygen in our waters.

These changes are threatening the health of the species that live in our waters, including our fisheries, which not only contribute to ocean biodiversity but to our ocean economy. Canada's commercial sea and freshwater fish landings is, on average, over $3.7 billion a year. Catches from our waters end up on dinner tables and in restaurants all across the country and, yes, around the world.

Supporting ocean biodiversity is helping to also support our economy. This is why it is imperative that we continue to invest in ocean protection and work with the provinces and territories with a renewed focus on collaboration to conserve this important resource. This is exactly what our government has been doing from coast to coast to coast. This minister is working with provinces and territories to ensure that our fisheries and oceans remain protected and healthy.

I want to first speak to the capacity building at DFO, undertaken by this government after being elected by Canadians, following the major and devastating cuts brought forth by the Conservative Party. When the Conservatives were in power, it was their mission to weaken science, to ignore science and to remove protections from our oceans and fisheries. They believed that by slashing science, this would help with project development.

On this side of the aisle, Liberals believe that we can still put in place strong protections and support industry development. An example of this is the Fisheries Act. In 2018, our government introduced Bill C-68 to modernize the Fisheries Act and restore lost protections to fish and fish habitat after the Conservative government gutted the act. Even more shameful, the Conservatives did this under the omnibus budget bill so that they could force changes through without due consideration from elected parliamentarians. It was so bad that four former fisheries ministers opposed the changes, two of whom were, notably, Conservatives.

Let me quote former Conservative minister, the Hon. Tom Siddon, who said:

The real scary part of this is that the one minister in Canada who has the constitutional duty to protect the fishery...is the Fisheries Minister. These amendments essentially parcel out and water down his fiduciary responsibility, to the point that...he can delegate his responsibility to private-sector interests and individuals....

He also said, “it’s appalling that they should be attempting to do this under the radar.”

However, I am proud to say that, in the last year, our government passed the renewed Fisheries Act that restored lost protections that were previously stripped by the Conservatives, and modernized it to include important inshore owner-operator policies, fish-stocking rebuilding provisions and more certainty for industry.

Not only is the Fisheries Act strengthened when it comes to fish protection, but there is a clear permitting framework for development projects to ensure that industries have the regulations they need to move forward when it comes to large and small projects.

I would also like to add that our Liberal government introduced further amendments to Bill C-68 last year, which included a ban on keeping whales in captivity and a ban on shark finning. Both these issues had previously been identified as individual private member's bills that the Conservatives were trying to block. Following royal assent, Canada became the first G7 country to ban shark finning, and that is something that Canadians should be proud of.

On top of making important changes to legislation, our government has been making investments and taking action to build science capacity at DFO. Most Canadians will remember that the former Conservative government made $100 million in cuts to DFO, eliminated 500 jobs, and muzzled scientists. In fact, it even closed seven of DFO's 11 libraries, which contain world-class research, and attempted to close down the Experimental Lakes Area, a facility that boosts leading scientific research regarding freshwater systems.

Since 2016, our government has hired almost 300 new science staff, and between 2016 and 2021, this government will have invested over $500 million in marine and freshwater science.

This is real progress. It is without a doubt that science underpins decision-making at DFO. Investments in science are important in ensuring that we have the information we need to protect our fish stocks, our coastal areas and our marine ecosystems. That is precisely why this Liberal government has made investments in science, not just at DFO, but across departments, a priority.

I also want to touch quickly on marine conservation. Protecting our oceans is important. It not only ensures that we are conserving ecologically significant areas to maintain biodiversity, but supporting marine conservation also means helping keep our fisheries healthy, which supports many of our coastal communities. It is in everyone's interest that we find ways to work with communities to protect our oceans.

Over the last five years under a Liberal government, Canada has protected almost 14% of our marine coastal areas, up from just under 1% under the former Conservative government. Indeed, this is something that Canadians should all be proud of.

I do wish to ask the Minister of Fisheries a question, going back to the province I was raised in. The Department of Fisheries and Oceans invested heavily to support the migration and improve Pacific salmon stocks. How much has been invested to support British Columbia salmon restoration and innovation? How is this improving Pacific salmon?

Fisheries and Oceans—Main Estimates, 2020-21Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

10:35 p.m.

South Shore—St. Margarets Nova Scotia

Liberal

Bernadette Jordan LiberalMinister of Fisheries

Mr. Chair, I want to thank my hon. colleague for his intervention and his speech. It was very good.

I will say our government has invested significantly in not only the B.C. salmon program, which we run in collaboration with the Province of British Columbia to restore habitat, but also the Big Bar landslide. This has been a significant investment for our government.

The landslide, which happened in July of last year, actually blocked the Fraser River salmon. We needed to make sure we did everything possible to address those concerns. Over $20 million has been invested to date to try to make sure that we see those stocks returning in the Fraser River.

We are going to continue to work in collaboration with first nations and the province to make sure that we are addressing the habitat restoration that needs to be done in coastal British Columbia. We know that is an integral part of making sure that we rebuild the salmon stocks. We are going to work with the provinces to make sure we do that.

Fisheries and Oceans—Main Estimates, 2020-21Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

10:35 p.m.

Liberal

Francesco Sorbara Liberal Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON

Mr. Chair, we know that gillnets are the most widely used and implemented salmon harvesting tool on the Fraser River both by first nations and commercial harvesters. Salmon stocks are of concern and sturgeon are incidentally encountered in gillnets targeting more abundant species. What is this government doing to help this species?

Fisheries and Oceans—Main Estimates, 2020-21Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

10:35 p.m.

Liberal

Bernadette Jordan Liberal South Shore—St. Margarets, NS

Mr. Chair, in 2019, the department implemented a substantial new fishery closure in southern British Columbia. This measure included a 42-day closure for all commercial nets, including gillnets, and a 27-day closure for the first nations food, social and ceremonial fisheries, including gillnets within the Fraser River. These decisions were taken as a precautionary approach, given the uncertain information. We were informed by consultations with all interested parties.

We know a lot more needs to be done to protect our wild Pacific salmon. We are going to continue to do that hard work to ensure we protect this stock.