House of Commons Hansard #37 of the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was chair.

Topics

Canadian Net-Zero Emissions Accountability ActGovernment Orders

1:35 p.m.

Conservative

Dan Albas Conservative Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC

Mr. Speaker, how can the Liberals claim that this bill offers more transparency and accountability when his government has not been transparent whatsoever on the costs of their carbon tax and whom, ultimately, that costs? The member for Carleton calls it the “carbon tax cover-up”.

Would the member be open to seeing amendments at committee stage toward ensuring that socio-economic and fiscal impacts as a part of any action plan should be included so consumers know exactly who is paying the bill, in what part of the region and in what sectors?

Canadian Net-Zero Emissions Accountability ActGovernment Orders

1:35 p.m.

Liberal

Ryan Turnbull Liberal Whitby, ON

Mr. Speaker, I always find the hon. member's questions helpful in clarifying where the government stands. This framework for accountability does provide numerous points in time, such as monitoring, an advisory board or advisory function. There are reporting requirements. Many aspects of the legislation provide a container for accountability on our plans, targets and reporting on progress. We can continue to evaluate our progress toward defined targets. We really need this to ensure that any governments that come into power are bound to climate targets and take this crisis seriously.

Canadian Net-Zero Emissions Accountability ActGovernment Orders

1:35 p.m.

Bloc

Monique Pauzé Bloc Repentigny, QC

Mr. Speaker, I must say that a lot of what the member for Whitby said in his speech was music to my ears. He is obviously aware of all the damage that global warming is doing to the environment and human health.

However, since he talked about two billion trees, if we overlook the fact that that none of them have been planted yet, those trees would reduce greenhouse gases by 30 megatonnes by 2030, while the Trans Mountain project with its barrels of oil would increase greenhouse gases by 620 megatonnes by 2030. I get the impression that the left hand does not know what the right hand is doing.

Canadian Net-Zero Emissions Accountability ActGovernment Orders

1:35 p.m.

Liberal

Ryan Turnbull Liberal Whitby, ON

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member's question comes up often in some of the debates on this topic. I understand that this is a challenging issue that requires a full-court press from all stakeholders at all levels of government. It requires us to transition entire industries and move toward essentially all of us changing the way we live, purchase, govern and do business. Every part of our existence is going to have to change for us to fully address and get to net-zero—

Canadian Net-Zero Emissions Accountability ActGovernment Orders

1:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Deputy Speaker Conservative Bruce Stanton

The hon. member for Timmins—James Bay.

Canadian Net-Zero Emissions Accountability ActGovernment Orders

1:40 p.m.

NDP

Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON

Mr. Speaker, this debate and discussion is so vitally important. Where I am feeling somewhat cynical is that I was elected 16 years ago when Stéphane Dion brought in his bill that would have clear targets and Canada would meet them. He even names his little dog, Kyoto, after the program. Year in and year out the emissions continued to rise, and emissions are predicted to continue to rise in the oil and gas sector.

The Prime Minister is pushing Joe Biden to move on the Keystone XL pipeline, while the Liberals put $12.6 billion into Trans Mountain. How can they expect Canadians to take them seriously, that they actually will get to net zero, when they continue to subsidize the industry to such a massive extent?

Canadian Net-Zero Emissions Accountability ActGovernment Orders

1:40 p.m.

Liberal

Ryan Turnbull Liberal Whitby, ON

Mr. Speaker, I share my hon. colleague's concerns.

The way I look at it is we are attacking this problem from many different angles at the same time. It is not as simple as saying we can cut off support immediately just as, to the same degree, we cannot phase out single-use plastics overnight. There are times, transition, stages and phases of this work. We have to be respectful of workers in the oil and gas industry and those industries just as much as we need to support all other aspects of this problem that need to be addressed.

Our government has stepped up and provided a really holistic plan with some very ambitious targets. I think the—

Canadian Net-Zero Emissions Accountability ActGovernment Orders

1:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Deputy Speaker Conservative Bruce Stanton

We are going to take one more question and response.

The hon. member for Fredericton.

Canadian Net-Zero Emissions Accountability ActGovernment Orders

1:40 p.m.

Green

Jenica Atwin Green Fredericton, NB

Mr. Speaker, for the record, I agree that this should not be a partisan issue. I do not want to feel like a little green mosquito, just trying to pick away at this. I want the government to succeed. I want to be excited by climate legislation.

However, with all due respect, this is not it for me. The member talked about the catastrophic changes we are facing and the grief that we are feeling because of this. Is 10 years before we start looking at actual accountability an adequate response to this?

I think about the youth who are constantly contacting my office and the ways they are feeling about this. They are looking to the government to be bold and to provide really concrete actions today.

Canadian Net-Zero Emissions Accountability ActGovernment Orders

1:40 p.m.

Liberal

Ryan Turnbull Liberal Whitby, ON

Mr. Speaker, in no way do I think the hon. member is a green mosquito. I honestly feel like she is a partner on an issue about which we all feel passionately. I really value her perspective.

It is a point well taken. I have heard from numerous other members that they are looking for a target to be set for 2025. Bills in the House only get stronger through debate. I value that perspective and I see your point. Hopefully as we move forward, as the points are debated, we will move to improve the bill even more.

I am quite excited about it. It is a step forward, for sure, but I understand your concerns.

Canadian Net-Zero Emissions Accountability ActGovernment Orders

1:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Deputy Speaker Conservative Bruce Stanton

I would just remind hon. members to direct their comments to the Chair. Using the third person works very well for the House, as members know.

Resuming debate, the hon. member for Beaches—East York.

Canadian Net-Zero Emissions Accountability ActGovernment Orders

1:40 p.m.

Liberal

Nathaniel Erskine-Smith Liberal Beaches—East York, ON

Mr. Speaker, as we live through these difficult times and face the COVID crisis, we have to direct our energies to the crisis in front of us. However, we cannot forget about the climate crisis that looms large. We have to bring that same sense of effort and determination to address it.

When thinking about addressing that crisis, I look at it through three lenses: ambition, accountability and action.

The bill before us, Bill C-12, the Canadian net-zero emissions accountability act, is about accountability but also about ambition. I want to start with what is very good in the legislation on ambition, which is the commitment to net zero by 2050.

In the last Parliament, I was lucky to join two other colleagues from the Green Party and the NDP to call for a climate emergency debate in the wake of the IPCC report on 1.5°C. I introduced a bill on net zero by 2050 in the House. I was very happy to see that in our platform and the throne speech. Now it is realized as a commitment in this legislation.

In the purpose clause, the legislation says the purpose is “to promote transparency and accountability...in support of achieving net-zero emissions in Canada by 2050”. Importantly, in the preamble, the IPCC is explicitly cited. The IPCC concluded, “achieving net-zero greenhouse gas emissions by 2050 is key to keeping the rise in the global-mean temperature to 1.5°C above pre-industrial levels and minimizing climate-change related risks.”

Of course, 2050 is a long time away, so we need to turn that long-term ambition into short-term practical action and we do so in the course of the legislation by way of five-year milestone targets. That is important. We talked about carbon budgets in our platform. It is important for everyone in the House to support the bill going to committee. When it gets to committee, I am certainly interested in hearing from experts about the difference between the carbon budget process and the milestone process that our government has proposed. It is very important that we not just talk about net zero by 2050, but look at shorter-term milestones and targets as well. That is an important ambition.

When it comes to accountability, it is important to highlight a series of positive measures in the legislation.

We first see progress reporting, a requirement of one progress report per milestone at least two years before the milestone. We see a requirement to table assessment reports and an important requirement for the government to table an emissions reduction plan in Parliament to tell the public how we will meet these shorter-term targets and get to net zero by 2050.

We also see a requirement for an expert advisory body that is to not only advise the minister but report annually to the minister and the minister must respond in a public fashion. These are important accountability mechanisms. We see a requirement for annual reports from the finance minister on how the government is taking key measures to manage financial climate risks.

Last, we see a requirement for an independent environmental commissioner tasked with examining and reporting on our progress and holding us to account if we fail to meet the necessary progress.

I started with the positives, but let me speak to some of the challenges. Before I get to the challenges, when I speak of accountability ambition and action, this is not an action plan. For anyone looking at this plan, saying we are speaking about the importance of climate change and asking where the action is, this is not the action plan. We have seen significant action over the last five years, and I can get into the details of that. We have seen projected 2030 emissions between 2016 and 2019 go down 25% because of the policies we put in place, but this is fundamentally about accountability and brings with it a commitment to greater ambition.

It also kicks the can down the road too far. I mentioned turning that longer-term ambition into short-term action. While this is a very strong framework for accountability, there is a significant “but”. That is because this act, as structured, provides the first milestone target as 2030. What this means is that the first progress report would not be required until no later than December 31, 2027.

Clearly, we need a more urgent and credible reporting timeline to meet the act's goal of transparency and accountability. There are a few ways of answering this challenge, in my view. A number of environmental organizations and colleagues have proposed that we move up the first milestone from 2030 to 2025. This would mean that an initial progress report would be required by the end of 2022, and there is some sense in this. Very smart environmental advocates have called for this solution to address the challenge that I have described.

There is another way of addressing this challenge, though. When we look at science-based ambition, we have a 2050 target in this bill, a net-zero, science-based target from the IPCC, and we could have a science-based 2030 target in this bill as well.

What does a science-based 2030 target mean? We talk about net zero by 2050, but the IPCC also tells us that, on that pathway to one and a half degrees, the world needs to be 45% below 2010 levels by 2030. What does that mean in a Canadian context? In 2010, our emissions were 691 megatonnes, and 45% below that is 380. That should be our minimum target.

If we look to the Paris Agreement and the fact we are a highly developed country, we might argue credibly that we actually ought to go further. At a minimum, on the science, the target for 2030 should be 380 megatonnes. If we establish that target in a science-based and serious way, then in the course of this act, we could provide for earlier progress reports.

I would certainly be comfortable with a strong science-based 2030 target. If we do not have a 2025 target, but a strong science-based 2030 target, I would certainly be comfortable with earlier progress reports in 2030, 2025, 2027. With those, this would be a very strong bill.

I have heard from other advocates that we could strengthen the advisory body's role in setting targets and in progress reporting. We could better ensure its independence. I have seen suggestions to require the minister to consider expert advice when setting targets. There are reasonable questions about capacity issues in the environmental commissioner's office to do this serious work.

This is the framework we are looking to. In the U.K., as an example, the climate change committee that was established through legislation in 2008 has great resources. We need to ensure any independent body standing up to do the accountability job has the necessary resources to do that job effectively.

As I mentioned previously, the difference between milestone targets and carbon budgets has also been raised with me. All these considerations will rightly be addressed by experts at committee, and I sincerely hope we see proposals from all parties and constructive work at the environment committee to improve this bill. It is a strong framework but it absolutely does need to be improved.

To close, I just want to emphasize that accountability and ambition are important, but at all times we must be guided by science. Our ambition must be set by science and this accountability act should be as robust as possible. Then of course everything depends upon serious climate action.

I know there are questions about impacts on the economy. This bill, in the preamble, recognizes the importance for the economy to move toward a clean transition, but this is really about jobs as much as it is about climate action for our kids.

We have made significant progress since 2015, so let us, united across party lines, build on that progress. Let us bring, as I say, the same determination and scale of response to the climate crisis that we have brought to the COVID crisis.

Canadian Net-Zero Emissions Accountability ActGovernment Orders

1:50 p.m.

Conservative

Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB

Mr. Speaker, I was initially concerned my friend's speech would contain unqualified praise for the government, but he stayed on brand and offered some criticisms. I appreciate that.

One of the frustrations for me in our debates about climate change is that we spend relatively so much more time talking about targets than about the action that will allow us to move toward those targets. We had a big discussion about which targets are appropriate for what year, but we also have to make decisions based on immediate actions and trade-offs.

He alluded to some of that, but I would like to ask him specific questions in that context. What does he think about supporting the deployment of greater nuclear technology? What does he think about supporting carbon capture and storage within the energy sector? Also, what does he think about doing more to support the development and export of natural gas as an alternative to the continuing use of coal in other countries around the world in conditions that are not up to the level even of coal use here in Canada?

Canadian Net-Zero Emissions Accountability ActGovernment Orders

1:50 p.m.

Liberal

Nathaniel Erskine-Smith Liberal Beaches—East York, ON

Mr. Speaker, speaking from Ontario, there is absolutely a continued role for nuclear, but new investments in nuclear, looking at the math, do not seem particularly cost effective.

When it comes to carbon capture and storage, every plan I have seen includes it, but there is no sense of the science behind what that means and how we actually realize it. At the moment, there is no credible plan for carbon capture and storage at scale to get us to where we need to get.

In answer to my friend on the question about action versus ambition, of course we need both. I mentioned we have had significant action over the last five years and that we need more of it, but we also need the right level of ambition. The machinery of government moves slowly and it moves toward an end goal. If we do not get the goal right, then all of that work will have been for not.

As a baseball player for much of my life, if I am told it is a five-inning game or a nine-inning game, I manage my bullpen differently, so let us get the innings right.

Canadian Net-Zero Emissions Accountability ActGovernment Orders

1:55 p.m.

Bloc

Julie Vignola Bloc Beauport—Limoilou, QC

Mr. Speaker, when I was a teacher, I often saw students who had problems and knew the solutions, but could not solve their problems because they did not know how to go about implementing the solution.

This bill is a step in the right direction, but is does not identify how the objectives will be achieved.

Is there a concrete, down-to-earth action plan to go with this bill?

Canadian Net-Zero Emissions Accountability ActGovernment Orders

1:55 p.m.

Liberal

Nathaniel Erskine-Smith Liberal Beaches—East York, ON

Mr. Speaker, this is not an action plan, nor should it be construed as one. When we talk about ambition, accountability and action, this is an accountability bill that sets out important ambitions that will require the government to act, but it should not be construed as an action plan.

I mentioned the U.K. We know that since it established its Climate Change Act 2008, which stood up an accountability framework, it has moved much more quickly than we have. Accountability matters.

Canadian Net-Zero Emissions Accountability ActGovernment Orders

1:55 p.m.

NDP

Laurel Collins NDP Victoria, BC

Mr. Speaker, it seems from the member's words that he cares deeply about addressing the climate crisis, so it is confusing to me that he would stand behind a bill that puts off accountability for 10 years.

What is also confusing is that the member said this is not a climate action plan. Where is the government's climate action plan? This bill gives the government an additional nine months after royal assent to create that plan, yet in its throne speech it said it would table a climate action plan to exceed 2030 targets immediately.

In what definition of “immediately” does it take a year to get this kind of action plan? How does the member stand behind the Liberal government and its inaction?

Canadian Net-Zero Emissions Accountability ActGovernment Orders

1:55 p.m.

Liberal

Nathaniel Erskine-Smith Liberal Beaches—East York, ON

Mr. Speaker, this is a frustrating question in some respects in that it suggests there has been no action. The actual numbers in the report from Environment Canada show that in early 2016, projected 2030 emissions were 815 megatonnes. If we fast-forward to early 2019, that same report is showing it at 592 megatonnes. It is absolutely not where we need to get, but for the first time in my lifetime we have a government that has acted in a serious way on the most important issue of our time.

To suggest that we need to stand where we are and do no more is wrong, but to suggest there has been inaction is equally wrong. Yes, we need to do more. I mentioned we need to improve this bill, but of course I stand behind it at second reading. I am asking for it to be improved at committee.

Canadian Net-Zero Emissions Accountability ActGovernment Orders

1:55 p.m.

Bloc

Denis Trudel Bloc Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC

Mr. Speaker, my colleague seems quite enthusiastic. He talks about the government's commitments and actions.

There is a group in Quebec called Mothers Step In. These are mothers and grandmothers who are very worried about climate change and rightly so. They even have a manifesto calling on the federal government to adopt a coherent plan to help meet targets and enshrine them in the bill on climate.

The government has good targets, but if it is so certain it will achieve them then why not include them in the bill as this group is asking for?

Canadian Net-Zero Emissions Accountability ActGovernment Orders

1:55 p.m.

Liberal

Nathaniel Erskine-Smith Liberal Beaches—East York, ON

Mr. Speaker, there is a target in the bill. It is net zero by 2050. As I articulated in my response, I think we should have the big numbers we see from the IPCC of 2030 and 2050 as the timelines, and then five-year commitments in the interim. Having a science-based 2030 target established in this legislation is absolutely something I would support.

Community SupportStatements by Members

1:55 p.m.

Green

Paul Manly Green Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC

Mr. Speaker, as Canadians prepare to buy holiday gifts for their family and friends, I urge them to think local, shop local and support the local small businesses that support our communities.

For some people, tomorrow is Black Friday; for others, it is Buy Nothing Day. I urge everyone to buy nothing from Amazon this holiday season. During this pandemic, Amazon earned massive profits, but it does not pay fair wages, and it has not paid its fair share of taxes in Canada or anywhere else. That is why I am adding my voice to those of the Progressive International coalition in saying it is time to make Amazon pay.

After the shopping mayhem is over, what I really want people to think about is Giving Tuesday. The non-profit sector provides valuable services to our communities. They deserve our support, now more than ever. I hope people will open their hearts and their wallets to help their favourite non-profit continue their important work.

Whitchurch-Stouffville MuseumStatements by Members

November 26th, 2020 / 2 p.m.

Liberal

Helena Jaczek Liberal Markham—Stouffville, ON

Mr. Speaker, I recently visited the Archaeology Alive exhibit at the Whitchurch-Stouffville Museum, winner of the 2020 Ontario Museum Association Award of Excellence in exhibitions. The exhibit focuses on the Jean-Baptiste Lainé site, a remarkable late 16th century indigenous community of 1,700 people that was situated in what is now in my riding of Markham—Stouffville.

The exhibit was developed collaboratively with the Huron-Wendat Nation of Wendake, Quebec.

I thank the Huron-Wendat Nation for its knowledge and dedication to this exhibit.

Working with indigenous communities will ensure that their histories are shared, so we will have a better understanding of the central role of indigenous peoples in Canada's history.

I send my congratulations to Whitchurch-Stouffville Museum staff and curator, Krista Rauchenstein. I had an amazing tour of the exhibit.

Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill RiverStatements by Members

2 p.m.

Conservative

Gary Vidal Conservative Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK

Mr. Speaker, earlier this month, Saskatchewan held municipal elections. Local leaders play a vital role in providing critical services to our communities.

Today I would like to recognize some from my riding: Jim Krushelnitzky of Pierceland and Gordon Stomp from Air Ronge will not be returning as mayors, after serving their communities for decades.

A few of the newly elected leaders in my riding are: Mayors Colin Ratushniak of La Ronge, David Krawetz of Big River, Joe Fike of Goodsoil, Julie Baschuk of Air Ronge, and Reeve Harvey Harriott of the Rural Municipality of Meadow Lake.

Some returning mayors are: Merlin Seymour of Meadow Lake, Duane Favel of Île-à-la-Crosse, Nick Daigneault of Beauval, Rod Fisher of Debden, Bruce Fidler of Creighton and Carl Lentowicz of Denare Beach.

There are so many more I would like to honour, and I appreciate everyone who put their name forward. I am grateful for the opportunity to work with all of them on behalf of northern Saskatchewan.

COVID-19Statements by Members

2 p.m.

Liberal

Rob Oliphant Liberal Don Valley West, ON

Mr. Speaker, as the COVID-19 second wave hits, it is more important than ever that Canadians take action to protect themselves, their loved ones and their neighbours.

We know the drill: We wash our hands, practice physical distancing and wear a mask. However, we can do more, we can be smart. The COVID Alert app works. It tell us when we have been close to someone who has tested positive. We can then get tested quickly and break the cycle of infection.

Some 5.4 million Canadians have already done so. They know their privacy is secure and their health is protected. It will only be truly effective if everyone is connected.

Recently, I initiated a friendly challenge with the great member of Parliament for Milton to see which of our ridings could get the most COVID Alert app downloads. We have already had a lot of success, and of course, Don Valley West is going to win.

I want to now encourage all my colleagues from both sides of the House to find creative and fun ways to promote the COVID Alert app. We do not often have the chance to save lives.

Ghislain RoyStatements by Members

2 p.m.

Bloc

Sébastien Lemire Bloc Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC

Mr. Speaker, today I want to acknowledge the involvement and dedication of Ghislain Roy who on October 28 received the Conseil du patrimoine religieux du Québec award of excellence in volunteering.

Since 2014, Mr. Roy has been the president of the Fondation Héritage whose mission is to create permanent funding to ensure the conservation of the St. Teresa of Avila cathedral in Amos.

Our cathedral needs major maintenance and restoration work costing millions of dollars. With a dedicated team, Mr. Roy has already obtained financial commitments to the tune of $1.8 million of which $600,000 comes directly from the community. The Roman-Byzantine architecture of Amos' cathedral makes it unique in North America.

We must acknowledge our heritage and work on keeping our monuments in place. Our grandparents, and my great-uncles in fact, worked on building the cathedral just a century ago. Now we need a financial contribution from the federal government.

At this point, I can only express my sincere disappointment that Ottawa has not responded to the many appeals from Ghislain Roy and his team. That must change now.