House of Commons Hansard #27 of the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was ndp.
Navdeep Bains Liberal Mississauga—Malton, ON
Madam Chair, we have supported, through the wage subsidy, more than 60,000 resource workers. This is a testament to the diversity of our sectors, and more importantly, the support for this key sector.
Marc Dalton Conservative Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC
Madam Chair, as has been stated by other colleagues in the House, I am glad to see the bill come forward to implement long-overdue changes to these COVID-related relief programs. As the saying goes, it is never too late to do the right thing.
In this case, I worry that the very long time it has taken the government to do the right thing is in fact too late for thousands of small businesses across our country and in my riding. While the wage subsidy has been helpful, for many owner-operator businesses the real problem has been ongoing fixed costs. Many of them have received no help thus far with their rent, either because their landlord would not participate or, in the case of several businesses in Maple Ridge, because their landlord could not participate.
Properties owned by municipal agencies were excluded from CECRA. At those daily 4:30 p.m. calls organized by the health ministry, we all remember those, I asked for the municipal exclusion to be removed. Officials said that they would look into it. My local mayors said they were open to it, if it were not for the exclusions.
Over 700 people in my riding signed a petition to remove the exclusions. It was initiated by Sally and James with Sushi Ebenezer and Temptations Salon, owned by Lisa. Everyone was on board except for the government.
Why have these exclusions remained for so long? After nearly eight months of pleading from tenants, residents and me, will the minister confirm that this completely unjust exclusion is removed in the new program?
Chrystia Freeland LiberalDeputy Prime Minister and Minister of Finance
Madam Chair, let me start by thanking the member opposite for his truly heartfelt question, a question that, to me, reflects real knowledge of his community and real advocacy for his community. I really respect that and I am grateful for the input.
In terms of the measures that we are going to be voting on tomorrow, together we can all be really proud that once we have passed this legislation, Canada will have a set of measures that are mutually reinforcing, that will be in place until the summer, that support businesses and support Canadians, and that I think are second to none anywhere in the world.
We will have done our job helping Canadians to get through. That is what we need—
Marc Dalton Conservative Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC
Madam Chair, what I am hearing is more waffling, not an answer to the question I asked.
I look forward to finally seeing some of those tenant applications coming back approved after eight months of rejections. That is the issue with these programs and has been since day one. They get rushed through this place, and within days, if not hours, inadequacies are quickly pointed out.
I wonder if the minister could advise what the most likely complaints are that I can expect to hear from my struggling local business about this program?
Mary Ng LiberalMinister of Small Business
Madam Chair, I want to share some comments from a couple of businesses.
Aphrodite's café, says, “We are not completely out of the woods yet, but without these programs like rent support, I would have had to close my doors almost immediately.”
Eby Manor milk states, “It is important that we are able to hire staff. We have hired a number of part-time staff and it is because of the Canada emergency wage subsidy.”
This legislation is going to help businesses like this. I am really glad we are getting support so we can pass the legislation.
Marc Dalton Conservative Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC
Madam Chair, while we are on the topic of reading emails and communication, I will read one myself.
This is from a local business that says, “Here at PMP, we are fortunate to be working, but like everyone else, struggling to stay COVID-free in our offices, our shops and our sites. We just got informed yesterday that PMP is subject to a CRA audit in the middle of a pandemic. We find this highly inappropriate even though we recognize the need for CRA to do its job. Our thinking is simply that now is not the time. As you know, we employ a ton of people and are working hard to keep everyone employed, so going through an audit in the middle of a pandemic is very unsettling.”
Why are the Liberals so opposed to the motion we passed, with the support of the opposition parties, for businesses like Pitt Meadows Plumbing?
The Deputy Chair NDP Carol Hughes
That was not quite a short question. I will get the minister to respond very briefly because there is no time left.
The hon. minister.
Diane Lebouthillier LiberalMinister of National Revenue
Madam Chair, our government is acting quickly and decisively to help Canadian workers and the organizations that they work for.
Kenny Chiu Conservative Steveston—Richmond East, BC
Madam Chair, let me start by expressing my appreciation to the Liberal government's ministers for finally staying up late in debating Bill C-9 to help Canadians. Unfortunately, throughout this ongoing pandemic, Canadians have been done a grave disservice by the federal government: a government that openly claims to be doing everything possible to help Canadians except, when this is closely examined, it is far from the truth.
Instead of effective help, what the people have heard are grandiose aspirations and empty promises. Instead of efficient support, the people have received confused and poorly implemented programs, like the original rental assistance and the initial proposal for the emergency wage subsidy. Instead of genuine assistance for all, the Liberals wanted an unprecedented power grab. Even with the limited oversight Parliament had been constrained to, WE, in upper case, found the true purposes and goals of that opportunity the Liberals saw.
Why is doing it right and optimally so important? Why is focusing on the future not enough to let us forget about the untrustworthy past? It is because, as in life, there is only one chance to do it right.
Many businesses in my riding of Steveston—Richmond East had no choice but to permanently close because of ill-timed or poorly implemented flawed policies. There is no future for them and little for their employees. When both CECRA and CEWS were pushed through the House of Commons, opposition parliamentarians stepped forward and proposed corrections and changes. Some of these were adopted, but so many others fell on deaf ears. We called upon the government to fix the rental assistance in April. That was almost seven months ago, and it has taken until now to see change: over a month after the previous and flawed program expired.
Members can imagine if this meeting we are having now took place seven months ago. The Conservatives have been advocating for incentives to help Canadians get back to work for equally as long, and we have brought solutions to the table to help small businesses, which are the backbone of our economy. Now, we once again find ourselves in the same situation, where the government is announcing programming and telling Canadians it will help, and the opposition parties are requesting more measures to effectively help Canadians and to efficiently assist our small businesses.
Canadians have received far fewer benefits than the hundreds of billions of dollars in extra debt the government has burdened on their, and future generations', backs. The finance minister earlier asked Her Majesty's opposition to consider which lane we are in. I can inform her that the government is not in the lane that will deliver the most effective and efficient results that our country deserves. In addition to traffic navigation, tonight the finance minister also wanted to teach us lessons in finance and philosophy.
Let me be clear. As I used to work in the software engineering business, I know that this is not a zero-and-one world: one can definitely chew gum while walking. Allow me to enlighten the hon. minister: What Canadians rightfully demand is assistance without a complete disregard and sell-off of their and their kid's futures. In other words, they expect smart, prudent and respectful use of their precious and very limited resources, and Her Majesty's loyal opposition wholeheartedly agrees and believes.
Will the government explain why it denied Canadian small businesses, entrepreneurs and workers the unanimous support of the Conservative motion to be flexible about increased CRA audits?
Mary Ng LiberalMinister of Small Business
Madam Chair, since the hon. member started talking about working late, I am really looking forward after this debate to joining the virtual trade mission I have going to Korea in another room here. We are all here today because I think we would agree with the member that supporting small businesses across the country is exactly what we are all here to do.
Gary Vidal Conservative Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK
Madam Chair, has the government done a cost-benefit analysis on how having rapid testing would act as an economic tool? For example, could rapid testing affect how workers who have time off because of being in contact with somebody would be able to go back to work sooner? Would it have an impact on the confidence of consumers in the retail and hospitality sectors? Would it have an impact potentially on businesses like the ones in northern Saskatchewan that rely solely on foreign tourism, like the outfitters, where revenues are near zero and the supports are not working for them? Would rapid testing change their outlook?
Navdeep Bains LiberalMinister of Innovation
Madam Chair, I just want to state some very important facts. Federal staff are making over 1,000 contact tracing calls daily in Ontario, and four federal labs are setting up and running support initiatives for provinces when it comes to lab-testing capacity with two more online shortly. What is really important to know is that since October 21, over 2.4 million rapid tests have been sent to provinces and territories and we think this is important when it comes to overall testing strategy.
Gary Vidal Conservative Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK
Madam Chair, Kevin Page, the former parliamentary budget officer and now president and CEO of the Institute of Fiscal Studies and Democracy, when talking about the release of mandate letters, said, “I do not think the government has been sufficiently transparent with Parliament and Canadians on the spending for COVID-19 fiscal supports”.
Does this statement by the former PBO trouble the Minister of Finance in the least?
Chrystia Freeland LiberalDeputy Prime Minister and Minister of Finance
Madam Chair, we are here for four hours tonight, answering questions of members from the opposite side of the House and across the country. That is democracy in action, and what I am really proud of is at the end of all of this, tomorrow, I hope that all of us are going to support these measures that are so important for Canadian businesses.
Gary Vidal Conservative Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK
Madam Chair, Mr. Page added, “Reporting on fiscal supports during the 2020 pandemic will fall far short of the public quarterly reports we saw during the 2009-10 fiscal stimulus response to the global financial crisis (yet the fiscal supports are at least 10 times larger)” today.
Does the Minister of Finance agree that better reporting would improve the ability to measure the effectiveness of the current programs, as well as Parliament's accountability role?
Chrystia Freeland Liberal University—Rosedale, ON
Madam Chair, some verdicts are already coming in on how Canada is doing. I want to point to a TD report, which describes “The Tale of Two Recoveries: Canada Versus the U.S.” Here is what TD said, “Perhaps the old adage [that when the U.S. sneezes, Canada catches a cold] should be rephrased to say, 'When the U.S. sneezes, Canada builds antibodies'.”
Gary Vidal Conservative Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK
Madam Chair, the current Parliamentary Budget Officer, Mr. Giroux, told The Hill Times last month that it has been much more difficult to get information out of the minister's office since Ms. Freeland assumed the role. Can the minister explain why the PBO would—
The Deputy Chair NDP Carol Hughes
I would remind the member that he is not to use the names of members in the House.
The Deputy Chair NDP Carol Hughes
Order. You are using up the time of the hon. member.
The hon. member for Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River.
Gary Vidal Conservative Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK
Madam Chair, in a report released earlier this week, Mr. Giroux and his team noted that the finance department had been providing a thorough public accounting every other week until August, but that practice ended when the Prime Minister prorogued Parliament.
In referring to many of the recent commitments, he said, “While the sum of these measures is significant, the amount of information that is publicly available to track this spending is lacking, thus making it more challenging for parliamentarians to perform their critical role in overseeing government spending and holding it to account”.
This lack of transparency is a matter of grave concern to the Canadian public. Will the Minister of Finance commit to restarting the biweekly updates?
Chrystia Freeland Liberal University—Rosedale, ON
Madam Chair, I would like to point the members here to another verdict on how Canada is doing in fighting the coronavirus.
The Economist this week has written a piece that calls Canada a “Northern light”. The Economist concludes that “among rich countries Canada has so far performed well” on both the economic and epidemiological fronts. That is the objective view of how we are performing.
The Deputy Chair NDP Carol Hughes
It being 11:28 p.m., pursuant to order made on Wednesday, November 4, the committee will rise and I will leave the Chair.
Income Tax ActGovernment Orders
The Assistant Deputy Speaker Carol Hughes
Pursuant to the order made on Wednesday, November 4, Bill C-9, An Act to amend the Income Tax Act (Canada Emergency Rent Subsidy and Canada Emergency Wage Subsidy) is deemed reported to the House without amendment.