Debates of April 20th, 2020

COVID-19 Pandemic

[Marie-Claude Bibeau, Liberal, Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food]

Madam Chair, our government is determined to keep all workers in the food industry safe. This is absolutely a challenge right now. Some food processing plants, meat packers in particular, have seen a huge reduction in their slaughter capacity. In some cases, they have even had to suspend operations for 14 days to allow their workers to self-isolate.

We are following the situation in in Alberta, Ontario and the rest of the country very closely. We are looking for the best ways to help the pork, poultry and beef sectors.

[Jeremy Patzer, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

Madam Chair, at $40,000, the Canadian emergency business account is proving insufficient for livestock producers. For example, one pork farmer told me that even if he could qualify for CEBA, it would buy him feed for his hogs for maybe two days. Hog prices themselves have crashed by 20% since March 25, as COVID-19 is disrupting supply chains.

The risk of a supply chain failure increases as this pandemic drags on. Is the government going to announce a program geared specifically to agriculture?

[Marie-Claude Bibeau, Liberal, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

Madam Chair, we are aware of the challenges facing the agriculture sector right now, and this includes producers, ranchers and processors. This is one of the reasons we injected an additional $5 billion into Farm Credit Canada. Furthermore, $2 billion has been granted in loans so far, to help them better manage their cash flow.

I assure the member that we will continue to look at different financing options and mechanisms to help them.

[Jeremy Patzer, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

Madam Chair, we are hearing that farmers do not qualify for the CEBA program, because they do not earn a salary. The agriculture minister has also stated that changes to business risk management programs to assist farmers are still on the table.

Will the minister tell us if enhancements to BRM programs are being discussed and when can we expect an announcement?

[Marie-Claude Bibeau, Liberal, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

Madam Chair, I assure the member that discussions are under way with the provinces. I talk to my provincial counterparts at least once a week, and risk management programs are obviously on the agenda. These programs exist. I know that producers want these programs to be improved and to be made more flexible. We are working on this. I suggest that producers apply so that they can benefit from the programs.

[Jeremy Patzer, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

Madam Chair, medical professionals and researchers across Canada are actively calling on the government to test for antibodies so we can figure out where we are in terms of our herd immunity. When will Canadians start getting tested for antibodies?

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Madam Chair, in fact the whole field of serology testing is a complex one. We are lucky to have many professionals and academics who study virology and serology in this country. We are working with them now to design a national serology strategy.

It is a caution to Canadians and the member opposite that this is the silver bullet out of the COVID-19 situation. Very little still is known about immunity and what demonstrates immunity in a particular person's blood. However, we are very excited to get started with this and will have more to say about it in the near future.

[Jeremy Patzer, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

Madam Chair, there are about 53 or 55 tests waiting for approval through Health Canada in regard to testing for antibodies. I am wondering where we are with the approval process on those particular tests.

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

Madam Chair, the Health Canada approval process is expedited, but as I said, we are focused on making sure that nothing is approved that would give false positives or false negatives to Canadians. As one can imagine, that would be extremely dangerous.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Madam Chair, Denmark and other countries have decided not to help companies that use tax havens.

In Canada, the House of Commons is taking unprecedented measures to provide income support to individuals and businesses. We obviously agree with this, and we are happy to be able to make suggestions on how to improve those measures. In exchange, however, we expect everyone to collaborate.

Unfortunately, large companies like Toronto's big banks are not collaborating, because they are avoiding tax by using tax havens, which enable them to get out of paying the taxes they owe. Sadly for us, what they are doing is perfectly legal.

I would have liked to ask the government if it is planning to make the use of tax havens illegal, but we are coming out of a briefing with the Minister of Finance in which he seemed to close the door on that idea. Why?

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Minister of Middle Class Prosperity and Associate Minister of Finance]

Madam Chair, I thank my parliamentary colleague for asking that question and suggesting ideas. Right now, as we know, the government is investing billions of dollars in fighting tax evasion and tax havens. In the last few weeks, we have decided to focus on workers and Canadians with our emergency economic response plan.

We are going to keep improving it, and we are going to keep talking with our hon. colleagues to find solutions.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Madam Chair, I would like to remind the minister that the money brought forward is to fight tax evasion, which is illegal. I was talking about tax avoidance, which is being used legally by the big banks. I will give a figure that goes quite a way back, to 2007. The big five Bay Street banks alone saved $2.7 billion, just in 2007, by using completely legal tax havens.

That is still going on, but we no longer have the numbers. At the time, the banks were required to disclose this information. Following the crisis of the last decade, that requirement was dropped. Tax avoidance through tax havens was legalized by obscure regulations in the federal Income Tax Act. It was not even legislation passed in the House, just regulations that were added later. These regulations are in section 5907 and are potentially inconsistent with the act. Using tax havens for such purposes is really not consistent with the act.

To correct the situation, the government does not even need to bring the matter before the House; it only has to amend its regulations to restore a little justice. As we know, Ottawa provides the banks with a great deal of assistance. Just look at the billions of dollars in cash or the possible repurchase of devalued assets.

Why is the government not instead prohibiting them from avoiding taxes through tax havens?

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Madam Chair, once again, I thank my hon. colleague for his suggestions.

At this time, we have really focused on developing an economic response plan to help workers and Canadians in this crisis situation. I will have a discussion with the Minister of Finance so that we can find solutions as we move forward in this time of crisis.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Madam Chair, I thank the minister for her response.

For millions of taxpayers, it is important to restore some fairness. These measures are unprecedented, and there will be a lot of debt. Those who have the means to contribute must do so and stop fleeing to islands in the south with a golden parachute.

My question is about a completely different topic, the housing agreement with Quebec. To my knowledge, this agreement is yet to be signed. The money in this agreement would obviously be huge for Quebec. Would the government be willing to give a little, sign the agreement and transfer the money, if it is still available?

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, Minister of Families]

Madam Chair, the hon. member has raised an important question with respect to the bilateral housing agreement between Canada and Quebec.

We are working very hard through our officials and making sure that we strike an agreement that, of course, reflects the unique desires, structure and formula that Quebec has asked us to consider. We are finding ways to do that while also remaining true to the national housing strategy and National Housing Act.

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Madam Chair, the government announced last week that it would implement a rent abatement program for small and medium-sized enterprises, which the NDP was calling for. That was last week and there are still no details.

My constituency office is in a plaza that has a lot of other businesses, including a gym, a hairdresser studio and a clothing store. They cannot meet their rent. It does not matter; the landlord is demanding it. My neighbours, people in my riding and those small businesses that are suffering, they are scared that they are going to lose everything.

We know that small businesses are the heart of our economy. Will the government roll out its offer to small businesses to save these key enterprises?

[Mary Ng, Liberal, Minister of Small Business]

Madam Chair, that is a really important question. The member is absolutely right. Small and medium-sized businesses are the heart of our communities. One of the most significant expenses that they take on is their rent.

We have announced that we are going to provide assistance. However, this is an area of responsibility of our territorial and provincial partners. We are in active discussions and we want to make sure that this important support goes out to small businesses across the country.

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Madam Chair, I have also heard from a lot of seniors in my riding, and I know my hon. colleague from Hamilton Mountain has been working with the minister, asking for supports for seniors to come through. They are facing increased costs for groceries, for delivery, for their prescription drugs, and they are on fixed incomes. The government has said that they are getting the GST and that it has done enough for seniors because they are receiving their money, but the constituents in my riding are saying that they are not, that they are suffering and need help right now. Will the government use the existing OAS/GIS benefit structure or the CERB to provide additional supports and benefits to seniors who are in most need?

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Minister of Middle Class Prosperity and Associate Minister of Finance]

Madam Chair, we do care about seniors, and we want them to know that they are not alone during these very unprecedented times. As members know, to help protect the financial security of seniors, our government passed several new measures, including providing a supplementary payment under the GST credit for those with low and modest incomes, of close to $400 per adult and $600 per couple. We also reduced mandatory withdrawals from registered retirement income funds by 25%. This will help preserve RRIF assets during this volatile market. Allowing any new taxes owing to be deferred until August 31 and extending the deadline to file income taxes until June 1 are other measures.

We will continue to work toward helping seniors during this very difficult time.

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Madam Chair, I am also hearing from the local councillors in the city of London. Their municipal budgets are under immense strain. They have been doing amazing outreach work through phone calls several times a week. They are talking to small businesses, the not-for-profit sector and charities, and all those amazing people who are doing incredible work in our municipalities, but if they do not get financial help soon, they are really going to suffer. We know that these municipal governments cannot run deficits. They cannot just go forward, so without the assistance the municipalities across Canada will get, they are going to have to cut those vital services, and that is the last thing that people in the city of London or across this country need.

Will the government give immediate help to transit agencies and offer a financial backstop to municipalities to make them eligible for the wage subsidy?

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Minister of Infrastructure and Communities]

Madam Chair, we understand how challenging the situation is right now with municipalities, including transit authorities. Public transit is incredibly important. We know that because so many of our essential workers rely on public transit to get to their jobs. I have spoken with many mayors, heads of transit authorities, and the Federation of Canadian Municipalities, and we understand their concerns. We also need the provinces to be part of these conversations, but we are working to support them. Of course, infrastructure investment is part of that. It is incredibly important that we continue to build good public transit.

[Tom Kmiec, Conservative, Calgary Shepard, AB]

Madam Chair, my questions are for the Minister of Small Business and Export Promotion. I want to return to a question I asked her in question period regarding the Business Development Bank of Canada and Export Development Canada. Again, I would like to know the total loan value, as of yesterday or the last few days, for both of those institutions and what is that, year to year, against how many loans they have given out. The BDC now notes on its website that it is between $15 million and $60 million, so I am hoping an intrepid exempt staffer may have emailed the minister with that answer.

[Mary Ng, Liberal, Minister of Small Business]

Madam Chair, I will have to commit to returning with more details. What I can is this. As part of COVID-19, the billions of dollars that we have unleashed in capital, while guaranteed by BDC and EDC, are actually provided directly through financial institutions, such as the banks and credit unions, because they exist all across the country. The speed with which that vast network can get money out to our businesses was essential, so the role for BDC and EDC during COVID-19 is to provide those guarantees, but the delivery of the loans themselves is through the financial institutions.

[Tom Kmiec, Conservative, Calgary Shepard, AB]

Madam Chair, I would like to thank the minister for being so gracious. She extended that courtesy to the member for New Brunswick Southwest, so I was hoping she would extend it to me as well. I will expect that in the next few days.

The CEBA has a different metric, which is 0% interest on the commercial loans being provided. The ones provided through the BDC are actually commercial-rate loans for some of the larger producers in Alberta.

We are already seeing a 400,000-barrels-per-day reduction in production, and some forecasts say that the production in Alberta and western Canada will go down by one million barrels per day. We saw the incredible drop in the price of WTI today, but they expect it will bounce back tomorrow just a little bit.

For the BDC and EDC, I would like to know what definitions and timelines will be used to determine which businesses and operators will qualify for the loans.

[Mary Ng, Liberal, Markham—Thornhill, ON]

Madam Chair, for COVID-19, there has been a vast liquidity put out into the marketplace, and those loans can be available through financial institutions. The larger loans that are not the $40,000 interest-free loans are available at commercial rates. The purpose here is that the companies themselves have a working relationship with their financial institutions, and those financial institutions are best capable of serving their clients to provide them with that lending support. That lending support is significantly guaranteed by the Government of Canada, which makes it more available.