Debates of Nov. 25th, 2021

Resuming Debate on the Order Respecting the Business of the House and its Committees

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Madam Speaker, congratulations on your reappointment as the Assistant Deputy Speaker.

I have heard a lot of comments today about what is happening here in this House. I just want to say that at this moment the effects of this ongoing pandemic are playing out on the backs of women and children: women who are nurses going into their second year of keeping Canadians alive in crowded hospitals, with no break, and in fact their backs are breaking; parents who need to send their kids out, and are worried about getting COVID.

As we think about why this matters, we must show leadership so that we do not contribute to one more case, one more hospital visit or one more ICU bed. Will the hon. members of this House support this hybrid model to show that we are doing everything we can for people, to stop this pandemic?

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Madam Speaker, I would love to discuss that with my new colleague from Port Moody—Coquitlam. However, she is about to vote for a motion that would prevent us from interacting here, so she has kind of burned herself.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Madam Speaker, it is an honour to rise in the House today. I will start by congratulating you on once again securing the very important position of Assistant Deputy Speaker. You certainly have shown that you are very capable of controlling this extremely chaotic room from time to time and I congratulate you on that.

This being my first opportunity to rise in the House since the election, I want to thank the people of Kingston and the Islands for sending me back to this place to continue to be their voice and to represent them. It is a true honour. I have been elected a number of times, both to this House and our local Kingston City Council. The feeling of knowing that I have the support of my constituents to represent them is truly humbling. I am very grateful for their support in sending me back here.

It is quite interesting that we are having our first debate on how the House should participate over the next number of months as we get through the rest of this pandemic. I will say I am quite surprised to learn the position of the Bloc Québécois members on this. They have always been very progressive with respect to the need to have proper measures in place to protect not just MPs, but more importantly the staff and administration of this House, so to see their position on this today is surprising for me.

However, I am certainly not surprised by the position taken by the Conservatives. This has been an ongoing thing for them. They always seem to be one step behind as it relates to public opinion and the need to take care of Canadians. At the beginning of the pandemic, we saw they were the last to put on masks, probably begrudgingly. They certainly did not want to do that. They complained about vaccines not being ready. The member for Calgary Nose Hill said on a number of occasions that we were not going to have vaccines until 2030, which was not the case.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Oh, oh!

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

I hear the member for Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan heckling me.

It has been said many times that I was the only person in this House from the Liberal bench for a number of months. I may have been the only person physically here, but I certainly was not the only person participating. The Conservatives are laughing as though there is some kind of difference between participating virtually and physically here. We passed rules that said all privileges were extended to those who were participating virtually. Indeed, people from all parties participated virtually throughout that time.

I will get back to my point about what I experienced and the lack of seriousness the Conservatives have taken toward this pandemic. When I sat in this House, from time to time I would hear explosions of laughter coming from the opposition lobby, as if they were having a party or something back there. They just have not taken this pandemic seriously from the beginning and it is showing today in their position on this and some of the rhetoric that we are hearing—

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, NDP, Carol Hughes]

I know members are anxious to participate in questions and comments, but this is not the time right now, so I would ask them to jot their thoughts down.

The member has over 16 and a half minutes left for his speech. I would ask members to allow him the respect they would want when they are speaking. I hope the tone in the House will be reduced to allow the member that respect.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Madam Speaker, thank you for that.

Of course, we have the most recent event, the creation of the freedom caucus, or whatever it is called across the way, of those who are fighting for the liberties of Parliamentarians or Canadians or whatever it is that really serves no purpose, other than to instill distrust, cross the line into conspiracy theory and promote policies that are not proven or based on science. That is what we have seen from the Conservative Party.

When we add up every position that the Conservatives have taken and where they are, refusing to say how many people are vaccinated, and we look at it holistically, there is not a single Canadian out there who actually thinks the Conservatives are taking the matter of the pandemic seriously. I think that is extremely clear.

I cannot understand why Conservatives do not just want to be upfront and provide the number of people who have been vaccinated. Why would they not want to do that? This is about showing leadership. The member for Calgary Nose Hill stood up and encouraged everybody to get vaccinated. Why do they not start talking about who is vaccinated on that side of the House? They would not even do it during the election when they were asked openly and publicly.

How can someone be a leader if they are not willing to, at least as a party, come forward and say they are making it a requirement that if someone wants to be a candidate in the upcoming election, they have to be vaccinated? Every other party did it except for the Conservative Party and the freedom caucus or the liberty caucus or whatever they have created over there to continue to promote conspiracies.

This is a motion that is really about ensuring that everybody can participate. The member for Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, who spoke before the member for Calgary Nose Hill, said that anybody who contracts COVID needs to be at home recovering. It is as though he is unaware of how this disease is spreading. Those who are double-vaccinated can actually contract the disease, continue to spread it and not even know that they are doing it because they have been vaccinated. There are a lot of people out there who can physically continue to participate but do not want to spread this disease.

For example, let us look at the member for Beauce. This member has not been able to participate in the election of the Speaker, the throne speech or any of the debates up to this point, or participate in a vote.

[The Deputy Speaker, Conservative, Chris d'Entremont]

We have a point of order from the member for Mégantic—L'Érable.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the rules are clear. We are not allowed to talk about a member's presence or absence in the House, but that member has done so several times.

[The Deputy Speaker, Conservative, Chris d'Entremont]

I believe the member is aware that he is not supposed to do that.

The member for Kingston and the Islands.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Mr. Speaker, on that point of order, I was not talking to his presence in the House right now. I was speaking to the fact that he has made it well known that he cannot come to Ottawa and participate in Parliament.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

Mr. Speaker, he said the member was unable to be in the House to vote. In other words, he referred to the member's presence or absence in the House. I would ask that he pay attention to what he is saying and take care to avoid making such statements about my colleague.

[The Deputy Speaker, Conservative, Chris d'Entremont]

Again, the member knows that he cannot say indirectly what he cannot say directly.

The hon. member for Kingston and the Islands.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I actually checked the voting record and saw that he did not vote, so I assumed that he was not here. I apologize if that did not get across to the member, but that is how I know for a fact that he was not here, because the voting record does not reflect it.

In any event, the point is that if there are members out there who cannot participate because perhaps they have come into close contact with somebody who has tested positive and are waiting for the results to ensure that they are not going to be somebody who continues to pass along the disease, then it is important that we provide opportunities.

The member for Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes likes to talk about how we are doing things differently and work environments are changing. Canadians are getting back to work; they are wearing masks. That is, I guess, how he defines work environments being different, but there are a lot of people out there who are still working from home and in the workplace in a hybrid format. It is nothing new. The member suggests almost that this is something foreign, as though other people are not out there doing this. There are a lot of people who are out there doing this.

I think of my neighbours, for example, who are continuing to work from home three days a week and go into the office the other two days. It is very common for workplaces to establish practices like these in order to ensure that people can continue to participate and to do their jobs.

I have two children. One is just able now to be vaccinated and the other is not. What if I happen to, even though I am doubly vaccinated, catch COVID? Members certainly would not want me to come around here, and I certainly would not want others to come around here if that were the case and it happened to anybody else. If that does happen and I happen to catch COVID, even though I am doubly vaccinated and still totally able to function in my duties from a physical perspective, why would we not extend the ability for me to be able to do that virtually? That is all that this motion is talking about.

I have heard the previous two speakers talk about accountability, as though it is not possible to hold ministers to account. I heard the member for Calgary Nose Hill go after one of my colleagues a few minutes ago, saying that he is not doing his job. The irony of all this is that those who are participating virtually are probably doing a lot more actual legislative work in the virtual world than they were before we had this hybrid Parliament.

We had committees meeting every single week, even on constituency weeks.

[Some hon. members]

Hear, hear!

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Now the members opposite are applauding that, and that is good, so why is it that they are against this virtual Parliament and having an opportunity to see this continue? That is the whole point. The whole point is to provide an avenue to enable people to continue to do their job.

I am really happy to see that there are at least some Conservative colleagues who would agree that members on this side of the House are doing their jobs and are working, because for the member for Calgary Nose Hill to suggest that any member of the House was not actually working during the pandemic because they were not able to physically be here is an insult not just to any particular member of this House but to people across Canada who were working virtually from home, as we saw thousands and thousands of people doing when we were directed to stay home whenever and if possible.

I do not appreciate the suggestion that colleagues are not doing their jobs. Despite the fact that I do not see eye-to-eye with Conservative members quite often, I would never suggest that they are not working. Maybe they are not doing what they are supposed to be doing, but they are certainly working and they think that they are doing their job, so it is just as important.

We also have to look at what the difference is. I have heard on a number of occasions different people from the Conservative Party talk about the difference. They are trying to suggest that when members are physically here, they are more accountable or able to be berated more by the member for Carleton during question period. I do not understand what the difference is. I sat here for five months and I heard the questions and saw the answers come from ministers. Yes, very rarely, on occasion, there may have been an instance where somebody was not able to respond immediately because of a technical difficulty, but it was very rare. It rarely ever happened. If it happened one time per question period, I would say even that is a stretch.

It actually worked out very well, because of—

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Despite the fact that the Bloc is heckling me on this, members know that it is because of the incredible staff that we have here who set up that system to allow us to be able to work virtually. I mean, come on, at least we can applaud for the staff. Maybe not, and that is fine, but I appreciate the Liberal members for doing that.

In conclusion, for me this is very easy: This is about whether or not we are taking this pandemic seriously from the beginning right through to the end. As I indicated at the beginning of my speech, it is quite clear to me that the Conservatives have never taken this pandemic seriously. They have dragged their feet and have been dragged into every scenario, whether it was the voting application, whether it was the hybrid Parliament, whether it was shutting down Parliament to start with or whether it was putting on masks. No matter what we brought forward, there has always been opposition from the Conservatives to doing anything that protects the safety of Canadians and in particular those who work in this House and in this place. I think it is absolutely shameful that they do not think it is important to continue to extend these provisions so that people can continue to participate virtually and in person as we move forward through the rest of the pandemic.

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Kingston, ON]

Mr. Speaker, it is good to see my next-door neighbour back in the House of Commons.

My next-door neighbour gave a long list of ways in which my party and all the people on the Conservative side of the House have not been taking the pandemic seriously. I will not go through his long list again, but he mentioned mask wearing. Back when the Prime Minister refused to wear a mask, back when we were being told not to wear masks, I was the first member of Parliament to wear a mask in the House, and then they followed suit.

Therefore, in the midst of all the self-righteousness, will the member acknowledge that, far from being a leader, the Prime Minister was saying not to wear a mask at a time when at least one Conservative MP was wearing a mask. We also have them in our lobby, and we have rapid tests in our caucus, which the Liberals do not have. Can we stop hearing this self-righteous nonsense about how the Liberals take it seriously and the Conservatives do not? It is just untrue and he should acknowledge that.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I want to applaud the member. I brought this point up before when he was in the House. He has actually asked me this question before and, yes, congratulations to him, but it is unfortunate that his leadership could not have gotten behind the same idea. When we got behind wearing masks, it was a decision that all Liberal members were going to wear masks, full stop.

It is just like when the Conservatives were deciding, “Well, if you want to get vaccinated, you can, but if you do not, you do not have to. As I am the Leader of the Opposition, I probably should take a position on this, but I do not know if it is such a good idea and so I will let you guys decide what you want to do.” That is not leadership.

The member talked about leadership. Why did his leader not demand that everyone who wanted to run as a Conservative candidate in the election needed to be vaccinated?

I thank the member for putting on a mask and for doing the right thing. It is just unfortunate that his leader could not do it. Maybe it is time for him to become leader.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Mr. Speaker, this is my first intervention in the 44th Parliament, so I would like to thank the people of Berthier—Maskinongé for their renewed trust. I would also like to congratulate you on your re-appointment.

With respect to the matter before us, our hon. colleague said the Bloc Québécois has demonstrated goodwill and a willingness to collaborate from the start. Hybrid sittings were actually our idea, as members may recall. However, current conditions make it possible for us to be here in person and do our work the way it is supposed to be done. We are human beings, and we need to have conversations outside the chamber alongside parliamentary debate.

My hon. colleague seems to be neglecting another very important aspect too. Problems with interpretation for francophone members and House of Commons staff, who I imagine are listening to us back there and are very happy to hear me say this for their health and safety at work. I think we need to hold our sittings here whenever we can. If another epidemic wave were to emerge at the end of January or in early February or March, we would be able to meet quickly and adjust.

Is my colleague underestimating our ability to adjust?

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the conditions may have made it possible, but it does not mean that it is the right or the recommended thing to do. The conditions may have made it possible for us to get together and to be in the same room like this, but it does not mean that it is the safest way to do it. As a matter of fact, the recommendations would be that we not do so, and that is why this is happening.

Why do we want to wait until February or March? Why would we not have the provisions in place? My thought is that the vast majority of people are still going to be here. All the ministers will be here for question period, as indicated—

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

I guess the members opposite were not listening to the debate, because the House leader said that yesterday. This is about providing options for people based on safety and their own personal circumstances.