House of Commons Hansard #71 of the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was maid.

Topics

Employment Insurance ActGovernment Orders

1 p.m.

Bloc

Kristina Michaud Bloc Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for her speech. I know that she has been working incredibly hard on this file.

A very touching video on this subject has been shared in recent weeks. I also heard from a great-aunt who had cancer that recurred twice. She had to go back to work against the advice of her doctor because she had no more income. She is not the only one in this situation. Many others are in the same boat.

We must show some humanity and empathy. As my colleague said, the government has a second chance to get it right by supporting her bill. I would like her to tell us again why it is so important to her.

Employment Insurance ActGovernment Orders

1 p.m.

Bloc

Claude DeBellefeuille Bloc Salaberry—Suroît, QC

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for her question.

It is true that this cause is very important to me because it is about equity and correcting an injustice. We are talking about workers who left their jobs not for the fun of it, but because of a serious illness. We must give them the assurance and the financial means to make rent, buy food and medications, and fight the illness so they can return to work.

Statistics show that 59% of workers need an average of 41 weeks off work. The Bloc Québécois believes it is very reasonable to extend EI sickness benefits from 15 weeks to 50 weeks.

Employment Insurance ActGovernment Orders

1 p.m.

NDP

Alexandre Boulerice NDP Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for her speech, her interventions and her commitment to this issue, which is vital, in every sense of the word, to thousands of people in Quebec and across Canada.

The NDP has long supported expanding EI sickness benefits to 50 weeks. We have spoken about this a lot and asked a lot of questions. This is an issue we will continue to support because it is the right thing, the humane thing and the compassionate thing to do.

However, I have to wonder why the Liberal government stubbornly wants to cap these benefits at 26 weeks, when science, evidence and experience shows that people need at least 40 to 45 weeks, and sometimes even 50 weeks. Why do the Liberals have such a hard time listening to people?

Employment Insurance ActGovernment Orders

1 p.m.

Bloc

Claude DeBellefeuille Bloc Salaberry—Suroît, QC

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague from Rosemont—La Petite Patrie, who I know cares a lot about this issue. That is a very good question.

Perhaps the government is listening to the employers' lobby, which is concerned. It is important to point out that the EI program is not a subsidy and is not funded by the government. It is funded by employers and workers. It is also possible that insurance companies are calling the minister to say that this is going to cost them a lot of money.

I think it is a matter of balance. The idea is that our EI program fairly and equitably gives workers what they need to overcome their illness. The Parliamentary Budget Officer said it, and it has been documented. The most compelling evidence comes from Marie-Hélène Dubé, a cancer survivor, who collected a record number of signatures, over 615,000, from Quebeckers and Canadians who also believe that this is necessary, who are telling the government to open its eyes because people need 50 weeks of benefits to overcome an illness.

Employment Insurance ActGovernment Orders

1 p.m.

Conservative

Colin Carrie Conservative Oshawa, ON

Mr. Speaker, I brought this up a bit earlier. We are debating Bill C-24 today, but it seems that we always get a reactive measure by the government. It seems that it is not doing anything proactive. I mentioned to one of the member's colleagues earlier that the government does not seem to have a plan for coming out of the pandemic.

The Bloc has been very good at looking into where the challenges are, and the member mentioned employment insurance and health care. How important is it for the government to bring forth a plan to get out of the challenges we are having in the pandemic and put forth a budget as soon as possible?

Employment Insurance ActGovernment Orders

1 p.m.

Bloc

Claude DeBellefeuille Bloc Salaberry—Suroît, QC

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for his question. He is right.

Right now, they are in crisis management mode, but with vaccines coming on line fast, it is important to plan and prepare for recovery. The Bloc Québécois has given that a lot of thought. We are hoping for a truly green, feminist and eco-friendly recovery that takes Quebec's interests into account.

My colleague can count on the Bloc Québécois because we have already made suggestions, and all we need to do now is make sure people know about them. If the government listens to us, Quebec will be well served.

Employment Insurance ActGovernment Orders

1:05 p.m.

Conservative

Ziad Aboultaif Conservative Edmonton Manning, AB

Mr. Speaker, I have said this before in this place, but I seriously doubt that the government has a plan to get Canada out of the pandemic. I listened to the question that came from my colleague earlier, and the question is legitimate: Does the government have a plan, or has it been reactive rather than proactive? I believe there is a serious problem, and I believe the government does not have a plan. I wish I was joking.

Bill C-24 is another bill in the long line of bills that I have started calling “fixer-upper bills”. I am sure members can guess what I am implying here, but in case they cannot, I will explain.

The government, in its mad rush to get supports out to Canadians last summer, passed a ton of bills that, even more so than usual for the government, were poorly written messes that did not properly establish programs. The CEWS, for example, is the poster child for this problem with the government. It took the government over three tries to get this program to a usable state. Let us imagine that. If we were playing baseball, for example, the umpire would have called the government out by now. The government is—

Employment Insurance ActGovernment Orders

1:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Deputy Speaker Conservative Bruce Stanton

I want to interrupt the member momentarily. We have a point of order from the hon. member for Oshawa.

Employment Insurance ActGovernment Orders

1:05 p.m.

Conservative

Colin Carrie Conservative Oshawa, ON

Mr. Speaker, I always hate to interrupt a colleague, but I think the member was so excited to speak to the bill that he forgot to mention he will be splitting his time with the member for Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon.

Employment Insurance ActGovernment Orders

1:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Deputy Speaker Conservative Bruce Stanton

I thank the hon. member for Oshawa. We will confirm with the hon. member for Edmonton Manning if that was his intention.

Employment Insurance ActGovernment Orders

1:05 p.m.

Conservative

Ziad Aboultaif Conservative Edmonton Manning, AB

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague from Oshawa. Indeed, I will be splitting my time with my colleague.

As I said, if we were playing baseball, the umpire would have called the government “out” by now. That is not all. Even CERB, EI, had multiple changes, which is the main part of this bill after all. Canadians have been relying on those programs over the course of the pandemic. It is no surprise that the Liberals did not have them down pat. One would think that by now they would get it, or at least after three or four tries, but it seems we are still dealing with the same dilemma.

We know how the government loves to put things off to the last minute, and it has become what I call a “piecemeal” government. We see this again, with these new suggestions for implementation. Am I shocked? Of course, not. The mentality of the government to leave everything to the last minute, even its agenda, is well and good during normal years. We experienced that in the 42nd Parliament, and we see the same thing happening right now.

However, now we are dealing with a pandemic. Everything is an emergency and is taken with a different approach. We must be aware that we cannot do things the regular way. This is a time when governments need to be more proactive and determine how to get the best results from the best plans. The only words that come to my mind with what the government has come up with now is “not good enough”.

While obviously I do not agree with my Liberal colleagues on most things, I would have thought that we would agree that Canadians needed us to get this right the first time. This is the bottom line. We need to get it right the first time, not the second, third or fourth time. I have no idea why this is happening.

Now we have the highest unemployment rate in the G7. It is not acceptable for the government to get those programs wrong again and again. The government has to stop to think about what is going on and why we are facing these experiences again and again every time it comes near a new law or legislation.

As of January 2021, 213,000 Canadians lost their jobs due to the pandemic. That number is huge. Those 213,000 people are relying on us to get this bill right and get proper legislation passed that will serve them and help them carry on with their lives. Canadians do not expect us to keep screwing it up, not the first time, the second time or the third time, nor leave it to the very last minute by not planning properly.

The failures add up. For example, high school students cannot have money now for university. University students cannot find jobs after they graduate or pay for their tuition. Young Canadians who are looking to start their careers are facing barriers as tall as the CN Tower. New Canadians, who only arrived in our country last year or this year, are also struggling to find jobs and starting their lives here.

What has the Liberal government been doing all this time? It has not been getting support programs right the first time; it has not been getting it right the second time; and the money, of course, was delayed getting out the door. After all, it takes four months just to send Bill C-14 to the finance committee and now we find out that we do not have a budget this March either. It has been two years without a budget. This has broken the record as far as how we do finance in the country.

We have seen everything come in at the last minute. Last minute does not come without mistakes. Last minute does not come with proper results.

We know what the government has been doing. It has been sitting back, twiddling its thumbs and introducing bills that, honestly, Canadians never asked for and certainly do not want at this time, such as Bill C-22 and Bill C-19. Instead of debating bills on which Canadians are relying, ones that would fix programs that Canadians have been counting on getting fixed, the government has been debating, for example, a bill that would prepare the government to call an election during a pandemic and a bill that would lessen the penalties for violent offender rather than the bills that can support Canadians to get jobs, to get their lives in order and, of course, to get the economy back in order.

It is a very dark picture. It is very sad that Canadians do not get the support they need, but criminals, for example, face lesser penalties. The PMO is clearly lives in some sort of bizarre world to think that this is the way to go.

That is just begging the umpire to point to the government and say, “You are out”. I seriously cannot reiterate enough just how much of a disappointment this has been. The government does not have a plan for economic recovery. The support programs that the Liberals created have been without economic recovery. The programs have to be amended time and time again and that delay causes Canadians to suffer because it takes longer now to get needed support out to them. The list goes on and on.

Canadians cannot afford to wait around for the Liberals to finally get the programs in working order. They cannot afford to wait for vaccines to trickle in slower than a snail. They cannot afford to wait for the government to finally present us with a plan so our country and our fellow Canadians can start to recover from the effects of this pandemic. Canadians simply cannot wait.

When the government waffles and delays for months then suddenly introduces the bill, trying to rush it along, it is simply not right. It means we get poorly created programs that need to be taken back to the drawing board. It means there is a lack of transparency and accountability that we would normally afford a bill. It means that Canadians get stuck with an even longer—

Employment Insurance ActGovernment Orders

1:15 p.m.

Conservative

The Deputy Speaker Conservative Bruce Stanton

We are at the end of our 10 minutes.

Questions and comments, the hon. member for Kingston and the Islands.

Employment Insurance ActGovernment Orders

1:15 p.m.

Liberal

Mark Gerretsen Liberal Kingston and the Islands, ON

Mr. Speaker, I have listened intently to the last two Conservatives speak and neither of them spoke to the substance of this bill. The bill is an act to amend the Employment Insurance Act. All the Conservatives did was talk about the failings of the government. It is as though they were sent here to talk about whatever they wanted, but just not about Bill C-24.

I listened to the member for Chilliwack—Hope for 10 minutes. He spent a total of 15 seconds talking about the bill. That member did the same thing. If any Canadian is watching the deliberations today, it is quite clear why this is being passed so quickly. It is because nobody, including Conservatives, has anything to contribute to the actual substance of the bill.

Employment Insurance ActGovernment Orders

1:15 p.m.

Conservative

Ziad Aboultaif Conservative Edmonton Manning, AB

Mr. Speaker, when there is no substance in what the government is doing and how the government has been handling this whole thing, how can the Liberals expect anyone to talk about it? There is no substance there for us to talk about.

That is what has happened right now. The Liberals are leaving everything to the last minute. They have been dragging their feet on everything. In business, they just correct the mistakes they make.

Therefore, if the Liberals were to trace their mistakes in the last year on every bill, what do they expect the opposition to say? They need to look at themselves and ask why they are introducing bills without substance. Every time, they confuse Canadians and they confuse policy-makers. That is why we are having this problem. That is why the member opposite is hearing opposition members speak in that fashion.

Employment Insurance ActGovernment Orders

1:15 p.m.

NDP

Heather McPherson NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB

Mr. Speaker, my colleague spoke about the supports for students. He would know that there are a number of post-secondary institutions in my riding, like the University of Alberta, which has suffered pretty devastating cuts from the provincial government recently. However, one of the things I have seen with the federal administration is that it has promised supports for students and recent graduates, but has not has not brought them forward.

In the fall economic update, the Liberals talked about the bare minimum of taking interest off of student loans, and they still have not done that. They agreed to my unanimous consent motion over 100 days ago to put a moratorium on loan repayments for recent graduates. They, of course, have not done that either.

Could the member talk a little about the supports he sees for students and things we really have not seen the government do?

Employment Insurance ActGovernment Orders

1:20 p.m.

Conservative

Ziad Aboultaif Conservative Edmonton Manning, AB

Mr. Speaker, of course, the University of Alberta campus is in her riding, and there are many students there.

The member is absolutely right. We have seen virtue signalling from day one by the government. The Liberals make those big announcements, but, again, there is no substance. They are empty promises. If we cannot provide help and support to students now, when will we do it? If we cannot provide or offer them any certainty about the future, about jobs after they graduate or about the support they need to pay their tuition, how can we expect that the future for our future generations will be in the right order?

The member is absolutely right. The notion for the government is big promises, no delivery. It over-promises and under-delivers. It is unfortunate that this is the way, and only the government has answers for that.

Employment Insurance ActGovernment Orders

1:20 p.m.

Conservative

Raquel Dancho Conservative Kildonan—St. Paul, MB

Mr. Speaker, I want to follow up on the intervention of the hon. member for Kingston and the Islands, which I found it very strange. The Conservatives are talking about jobs and economic recovery. This bill exists because there are no jobs and there is no timeline for economic recovery. Therefore, I am not quite sure how he sees those as unrelated.

My question for my hon. Conservative member and colleague is this. There is a sunset date in Bill C-24 of September 25, 2021, so these benefits would not exist after that, yet there is no plan on how to get the jobs back. These benefits would not be needed. Could the hon. member comment on that?

Employment Insurance ActGovernment Orders

1:20 p.m.

Conservative

Ziad Aboultaif Conservative Edmonton Manning, AB

Mr. Speaker, again, we are facing the same symptoms. All these announcements are in place, but there is really no timeline for any of them to be me. This is just another sign of virtue signalling by the government. The Liberals are preparing for an election and they are not going to implement any of those ideas or bills. They are going to let the bills die through time. Unfortunately this is the new way of doing business in the country as far as government services and business go, and that is very sad.

Employment Insurance ActGovernment Orders

1:20 p.m.

Conservative

Brad Vis Conservative Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC

Mr. Speaker, it is such a great day to be debating in the House of Commons. Before I begin, I want to give a big shout-out. I have been in Ottawa for a while, and I think all House of Commons staff are doing an excellent job of keeping us fed and making sure that our system works for the well-being of Canadians. I really felt that this week. They are doing a great job.

Now I will get to Bill C-24.

Bill C-24 would increase the maximum number of weeks available to workers through EI, with up to a maximum of 50 weeks for claims established between September 27, 2020, and September 25, 2021. It would also change rules for self-employed workers who have opted into the EI program to access special benefits. This legislation would allow them to use their 2020 earning threshold of $5,000, compared with the previous threshold of $7,555. Also, it would fix the Liberal-caused loophole in the Canada recovery sickness benefit for international leisure travellers.

The Conservative Party is supportive of Bill C-24. These changes are necessary and long overdue. We must get help to Canadians in need whose jobs have been eliminated as a result of the government-mandated restrictions and closures in response to the pandemic. Lockdowns are still in place in many parts of the country, and businesses cannot get back to normal even though they are working incredibly hard to do so.

My constituents in Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon are frustrated. They cannot go to church. They cannot earn an income the way they want to. They cannot live their lives the way they want to either.

The Conservatives' track record in this Parliament is strong. We have been behind pandemic assistance for Canadians throughout the entire COVID-19 period. We supported Bill C-13 one year ago, in March 2020. It brought in the Canada emergency wage subsidy for small businesses, a one-time additional payment under the GST/HST tax credit, temporary additional amounts to the Canada child benefit, a 25% reduction in required minimal withdrawals from registered retirement income funds, and the Canada emergency response benefit.

Last April, we supported Bill C-14 and Bill C-15, which improved the wage subsidy and implemented the Canada emergency student benefit. In July it was Bill C-20, to extend the wage subsidy. In September it was Bill C-4, for a CERB extension, the Canada recovery benefit, the Canada recovery sickness benefit and the Canada recovery caregiving benefit. In November it was Bill C-9, the emergency rent subsidy and wage subsidy expansion.

The Conservatives have been there to support Canadians every step of the way. What we are not supportive of, though, is the Liberal government's blatant disregard for parliamentary process, their lack of respect for Canadian democracy and their incredibly poor ability to manage the legislative agenda of the House to ensure that we can move past the pandemic.

Two days ago, the member for Windsor—Tecumseh, who is the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Employment, Workforce Development and Disability Inclusion, popped into the HUMA committee and table dropped a substantive and constrictive motion for a prestudy of Bill C-24. Neither the text of the motion nor its intention was shared in advance. He ignored the proactive efforts of my colleague, the member for Kildonan—St. Paul, who had reached out to him as soon as Bill C-24 was tabled in the House.

The deadline at the end of the month, which the Liberals are trying to beat, is not some surprise that was sprung on them. To further illustrate that the right hand of the government does not know what the left hand is doing, the member for Kildonan—St. Paul had to direct the member for Windsor—Tecumseh to pick up the phone and talk to his House leader during committee because the motion he was attempting to ram through was no longer necessary. We had come to an agreement outside of his ham-fisted efforts.

Cross-party collaboration is more than possible. Think of all the time that could have been saved if the parliamentary secretary had attempted to engage himself in that process with committee members.

The Liberals love to complain that the opposition is holding up important legislation, yet here we are, in March 2021, debating necessary updates to legislation from September 2020. The Liberals knew for months that benefits would be expiring, but they failed to act until the last minute. They have repeatedly missed the mark on legislation for emergency supports, leaving thousands of Canadians behind.

A key component of this legislation is addressing the incredibly flawed Canada recovery sickness benefit. Because of the Liberals' disrespect for Parliament and their poor legislative drafting, a loophole was created that allows international leisure travellers to receive the CRSB during their quarantine. This is completely unacceptable. The CRSB is for individuals who must miss work because of COVID-19, not for subsidizing the quarantine period of international leisure travellers. This oversight is a direct result of the government's rushing legislation through Parliament because of its prorogation. It is outrageous that the Liberals waited months to fix their mistake.

If the government tried implementing the transparency it espouses to employ, so much headache would have been avoided. For instance, if the Liberals had tabled a federal budget at the beginning of March, this would have ceased to be an issue entirely. There is even a precedent by the government for including employment insurance updates in federal budget legislation. In 2018, the government proposed amendments to the Employment Insurance Act to implement a number of reforms related to the extension of parental benefits.

We have not seen a federal budget in 723 days. This is the longest period in Canadian history that we have been without one.

Even setting aside our criticisms, we cannot ignore how the non-partisan Parliamentary Budget Officer has repeatedly called out the government for its lack of fiscal transparency. In a PBO report issued on November 4, 2020, on supplementary estimates (B), we found out that the Department of Finance, which under Bill Morneau had been issuing biweekly updates to the finance committee during the first month of the COVID-19 pandemic, stopped providing this information once Parliament was prorogued and Morneau had resigned. We are talking about tens of billions of taxpayer dollars heading out the door under the guise of COVID relief measures, and the government has revealed precious little about where these dollars are going.

From the same November 4 report, the PBO underscored that our role as parliamentarians is being obfuscated and obstructed by the government. As the report notes, “While the sum of these measures is significant”, some $79.2 billion, of which 91.5% was related to COVID spending, “the amount of information that is publicly available to track this spending is lacking, thus making it more challenging for parliamentarians to perform their critical role in overseeing Government spending and holding it to account.”

There is no publicly available list of all federal COVID-19 spending measures. There is no consistency in the reporting on the implementation of these measures. There is less and less information being provided transparently to parliamentarians and the PBO. The government could not do a better job of keeping its finances secret if it provided everyone in the House with blindfolds.

However, to its credit, the government has made some efforts to provide additional financial information. As the PBO noted in its February 24, 2021, report on the supplementary estimates (C), “Notable improvements include a complete list of Bills presented to Parliament to authorize spending for COVID-19 related measures”, which is information anyone could find on LEGISinfo, “and a reconciliation table between the Fall Economic Statement 2020 and the Estimates documents”. Still, as the PBO reminded us in February, “The frequency at which the Government provides an updated list of COVID-19 measures in one central document...and the inconsistency to which actual spending data on COVID-19 measures is made publicly available remain areas of concern.”

These are baby steps, but bigger leaps are needed from the government when it comes to fiscal transparency. We as parliamentarians depend on the government to provide us with accurate and timely information about federal finances. We cannot do our work of keeping the government accountable for its spending choices if it does not respect us enough to provide the necessary information to allow me and all of my colleagues to do our jobs effectively.

Again today, it is up to the opposition to correct the continued mistakes of the government. This is disrespectful to us as parliamentarians, it is disrespectful to this hallowed institution and it is disrespectful to the Canadian people, for whose tax dollars we are ultimately responsible.

Employment Insurance ActGovernment Orders

1:30 p.m.

Spadina—Fort York Ontario

Liberal

Adam Vaughan LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Families

Mr. Speaker, as a member of the HUMA committee, I would like to address some of the allegations that were raised. We often hear the Conservatives in particular and the opposition in general complain that government members on committees are puppets of the centre. However, when we act independently and in faithful ways with integrity to move committee business forward, we are told we should be checking in with the centre regarding the motions we present and the actions we take to process the business of Parliament. This is hypocritical and contradictory in a way, but I will let the opposition explain the inconsistencies.

When opposition members, in good faith, present us with a problem, why are they angry with us when we present the solution? I appreciate that timetables are urgent here, but critiques are much easier to lob than solutions. Solutions require drafting legislation and fitting it into a fiscal framework to make sure issues work. When they present us with a challenge to address, why are they mad when we address the issue? Why does the complaint suddenly turn to timetables instead of the fundamental principle at play?

Employment Insurance ActGovernment Orders

1:30 p.m.

Conservative

Brad Vis Conservative Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC

Mr. Speaker, what is unfortunate is that parliamentary secretary responsible for Bill C-24 is not standing up in the House and debating me on the very legislation he is meant to be responsible for.

Employment Insurance ActGovernment Orders

1:35 p.m.

Conservative

Dave Epp Conservative Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON

Mr. Speaker, I want to pick up on a metaphor that our colleague from Edmonton Manning introduced. He described Bill C-24 as another “fixer-upper” piece of legislation. I have personally lived in fixer-uppers and my family has embarked on a renovation project, to continue with that metaphor, but we did so with a budget.

Can my colleague comment on whether a budget document, properly presented to the House and passed by it, might help the government in presenting future legislation that would not require so many fixes?

Employment Insurance ActGovernment Orders

1:35 p.m.

Conservative

Brad Vis Conservative Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC

Mr. Speaker, indeed, like a lot of members of the House, I look forward to when the Government of Canada tables a federal budget so that the corresponding accountability that comes with a budget, and the fiscal planning that goes along with that, are presented to Canadians. Then they will have an idea of how their federal taxpayer dollars are being spent and what plans are actually in place to get our economy going and get people back to work.

Employment Insurance ActGovernment Orders

1:35 p.m.

Green

Paul Manly Green Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC

Mr. Speaker, EI reforms are long overdue. This is something we need to do, and to do permanently, not just temporarily.

Liberal and Conservative governments have used the EI fund as a surplus slush fund, and I am curious as to whether the member thinks the fund should be completely independent so that money paid into it by workers is insurance money that can only be used by workers. That way, we could expand programs and make them more accessible to all those who could really use help through EI.

Employment Insurance ActGovernment Orders

1:35 p.m.

Conservative

Brad Vis Conservative Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC

Mr. Speaker, I agree with the member for Nanaimo—Ladysmith that the way funds from employment insurance have been used by previous governments should not happen. Money put into EI by Canadians should be for Canadian workers when they need it, and if there are surplus funds, the money should be reinvested to support the fund when times are bad.