House of Commons Hansard #142 of the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was spending.
Philip Lawrence Conservative Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON
Mr. Speaker, the Auditor General is an incredibly critical part of our democracy. When an individual calls the Auditor General's integrity into question, which happened just now in the House, it is an attack on our democracy. Simply put, her only offence was not supporting and endorsing Liberal waste.
Will the minister apologize?
Diane Lebouthillier LiberalMinister of National Revenue
Mr. Speaker, our colleagues on the other side of the House can talk about what a waste it was to implement the 13 programs that we put in place during the pandemic, but on this side of the House, we can say that we saved lives.
I am certainly not going to apologize for saving lives and neither is our government. The worst part is that the Conservatives are willing to play politics with children's pain and dental programs. It is a real shame.
Philip Lawrence Conservative Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON
Mr. Speaker, it was not the opposition who called out $32 billion in waste. It was the Auditor General.
My question again is a simple one. Will the minister retract her comment calling into question the independence of the Auditor General, yes or no?
Diane Lebouthillier LiberalMinister of National Revenue
Mr. Speaker, as I mentioned earlier, the CRA does not agree with the Auditor General's calculations concerning recipients who were not eligible for the wage subsidy.
The CRA's actual audits indicate that compliance with the subsidies was high and that the Auditor General's figure is exaggerated. That is not the Auditor General's fault. We all know that she was pressured by the opposition to produce this report. Political games notwithstanding, let us not forget that the wage subsidy saved the economy.
Luc Berthold Conservative Mégantic—L'Érable, QC
Mr. Speaker, nowhere in the Auditor General's report does she question the time she needed to take to produce this report. Nowhere in the report does she accuse the opposition of pressuring her to produce this report.
However, to hide her incompetence, today the Minister of National Revenue questioned the integrity of the Auditor General of Canada in her report on pandemic spending.
Will she apologize immediately, yes or no?
Carla Qualtrough LiberalMinister of Employment
Mr. Speaker, we absolutely respect the Auditor General.
She absolutely agreed with us that we met the objectives of this plan. We kept Canadians safe, we put money in their pockets quickly and we avoided significant economic and social harm.
Luc Berthold Conservative Mégantic—L'Érable, QC
Mr. Speaker, it was this Parliament that asked the Auditor General to investigate pandemic spending and the way the government managed the pandemic. It was this Parliament that asked her to get to the bottom of this. It was not the opposition.
However, today in the House, the Minister of National Revenue had the nerve to hide her incompetence at managing the crisis by throwing accusations at the Auditor General of Canada and questioning her integrity.
There is just one thing left for the minister to do, and that is to stand up and apologize to the House.
Diane Lebouthillier LiberalMinister of National Revenue
Mr. Speaker, I have tremendous respect for the Auditor General. The opposition is the one impugning her.
Our government made the crucial decision to support businesses and workers during the pandemic—
The Speaker Liberal Anthony Rota
Order. It is hard to hear the answer.
I will ask the hon. minister to start over, but first I would ask all members to calm down a little. I know Christmas is coming and everyone is excited, but I would like everyone to calm down and take a little time to think about that.
Diane Lebouthillier Liberal Gaspésie—Les-Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC
Mr. Speaker, let me just say that I have total confidence in the Auditor General and she has my utmost respect.
Our government made the crucial decision to support people and businesses during the pandemic. We created 13 programs. We saved lives, and I will never apologize for saving lives during the worst time this country has known, worse even than the Second World War.
Monique Pauzé Bloc Repentigny, QC
Mr. Speaker, COP15 is under way in Montreal, and the Prime Minister, who could not be bothered to go to COP27, will be one of the few heads of state, if not the only one, to make an appearance. What is he going to say?
He will say that biodiversity is a treasure, that it is threatened by human activity and that we have a responsibility to do more to protect the world's wildlife. He will look serious and solemn, and he will wait for the applause.
If he wants to be taken seriously for once, why not announce an end to oil exploration off the coast of Newfoundland?
Jonathan Wilkinson LiberalMinister of Natural Resources
Mr. Speaker, it is very significant that COP15 is being held here in Canada. It is very important to protect nature and biodiversity around the world. We have done a great deal on that here in Canada. We have invested to protect land and marine areas, and we have also promised to plant two million trees.
It is very important to be a global leader in protecting nature, and Canada is stepping up.
Monique Pauzé Bloc Repentigny, QC
Mr. Speaker, Canada's oil is bad for the planet. It contributes to global warming and harms biodiversity. Oil exploration and production have devastating impacts on such animal species as the right whale and corals as well as on plants. This is nothing new to anyone here: Ottawa continues to act as though it is business as usual. Biodiversity is great and important for the planet, but oil is more important to Canada.
Will the Prime Minister be honest enough to admit to COP15 participants that Canada is harming biodiversity?
Jonathan Wilkinson LiberalMinister of Natural Resources
Mr. Speaker, it is very important to protect nature and biodiversity, and Canada is a leader in this area. It is also important that my colleague understand that we are undergoing an energy transition and that we must have a prosperous economy for the future. We have a plan to protect nature and to fight climate change but also to ensure a strong and prosperous economy for the future.
Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB
Mr. Speaker, the government is attacking the Auditor General's independence in order to cover up its own incompetence.
More than $30 billion went to ineligible recipients; that is, people who did not meet the criteria of the programs. When the Auditor General called this out, the government's response was to criticize the work of a strong, independent professional whom the Liberals, in fact, appointed.
Will the Minister of Revenue apologize to the Auditor General and agree to accept all her recommendations?
Randy Boissonnault LiberalMinister of Tourism and Associate Minister of Finance
Mr. Speaker, we respect the Auditor General and welcome her report. However, let us take a look at some of the—
The Speaker Liberal Anthony Rota
I just want to remind the hon. members that the rules are that they ask the question and then they wait. They do not keep asking the question over and over again.
The hon. minister, from the top please.
Randy Boissonnault Liberal Edmonton Centre, AB
Mr. Speaker, let me state once again that we thank the Auditor General for her report and that we respect her work, but let us look at what her report said. The pandemic benefits prevented an increase in poverty that would almost have doubled without our investments, and they helped the economy bounce back from the effects of the pandemic. CERB allowed 8.9 million Canadians to be supported through the depths of the pandemic, and the wage subsidy kept 5.38 million people on the payroll.
We have already recuperated $2.3 billion. The system will continue to work, and we will continue to have the backs of Canadians.
Rosemarie Falk Conservative Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK
Mr. Speaker, the Auditor General did take a look, and more than $30 billion in payments went to ineligible applicants. We know in this House that the Auditor General is a respected officer of Parliament. It was Parliament that asked for the report from the AG. The minister is now calling into question the independence of the AG. Will the minister apologize?
Carla Qualtrough LiberalMinister of Employment
Mr. Speaker, we thank the Auditor General for her report. We worked closely with her to make sure she had all the data she needed to make her findings, and we are also working hard on the post-payment verification to ensure that we work with individual Canadians. Over 150,000 Canadians have already worked out agreements with CRA for payment, and we will continue methodically pursuing this work until it is done.
Rosemarie Falk Conservative Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK
Mr. Speaker, that definitely was a non-answer. The Liberals say they worked with the Auditor General, but they will not accept the recommendations from the Auditor General. Will the Minister of National Revenue stand up and apologize for her remarks, which seem to be that her government does not trust the Auditor General and the work that was done?
Randy Boissonnault LiberalMinister of Tourism and Associate Minister of Finance
Mr. Speaker, our government trusts and respects the work of the Auditor General. Let me just share with members—