Debates of Feb. 14th, 2022

Motion That Debate Be Not Further Adjourned

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, with respect to the consideration of Government Business No. 8, I move:

That debate be not further adjourned.

[The Speaker, Liberal, Anthony Rota]

Pursuant to Standing Order 67.1, there will now be a 30-minute question period.

I invite hon. members who wish to ask questions to rise in their places or use the “raise hand” function so that the Chair has some idea of the number of members who wish to participate in this question.

The hon. member for Barrie—Innisfil.

[John Brassard, Conservative, Barrie—Innisfil, ON]

Mr. Speaker, let me begin by expressing profound disappointment on the part of the official opposition for what is effectively a hammer being dropped on a very important bill, limiting debate and limiting parliamentary scrutiny.

Last week, we proposed what I thought was a reasonable amendment to the motion. The amendment would have allowed an expedited process of parliamentary scrutiny and would have allowed timely and thorough examination of this bill.

The challenge we have is that we are seeing this pattern when it comes to dealing with legislation. We have a two and a half billion-dollar bill that is being supported by all sides. That makes it even more important that we provide scrutiny by having the committee look at this and be able to provide reasonable amendments if required and, more important, have the minister come to committee to answer the questions of parliamentarians. After all, that is our job. It is our job to provide oversight on spending.

I will remind the Speaker as well that the Senate is not even sitting this week so there is really no reason for this bill to be rushed. Therefore, we have an opportunity to look at the bill and provide some reasonable amendments.

Given all of the circumstances we are dealing with, including that the Senate is not sitting and the fact that it has all-party support, can the minister give me one coherent reason why we would need to rush this bill at this point and not have parliamentary oversight over this piece of legislation?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

Madam Speaker, I agree with the member opposite that this is a very important bill. I believe the member understands the reasons, but I want to make sure everyone knows those reasons.

Rapid tests have become extremely important for millions of Canadians over the last few weeks. Once we started not only procuring them but delivering them in October 2020, which is obviously more than a year ago, we increased by five times the number of rapid tests that we were able to deliver in December, which was multiplied again by four times the number of rapid tests delivered in January. That is 20 times more tests, but the demand is increasing. The supply chains are strained and we need to be there.

Therefore, this bill must go forward. I welcome the advice and guidance that we will be hearing throughout the day.

[Alain Therrien, Bloc, La Prairie, QC]

Madam Speaker, I have talked with just about everyone here, and it seems to me that people support the bill.

Rapid tests are important, but so are the parliamentary way of doing things and the democratic process. All the parties agreed that we could do this quickly without rushing anyone, could let people ask questions and try to get answers to those questions, but now the government is rushing us and breaking down open doors with a closure motion. The other parties were willing to move this bill through quickly, but only if they were given time for dialogue.

My question is simple: Why are the Liberals refusing to have that dialogue in committee, for example, and that debate in the House? Why the rush?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

Madam Speaker, I am very pleased to hear my colleague from La Prairie talking about dialogue. We are going to be having one all day with many hours of important discussion. There will be other debates to follow, because we are only at second reading for this bill.

I have had a lot of discussions over the past few weeks with my counterpart from Quebec, Mr. Dubé. Thanks to those discussions and our co-operation with Quebec, we were able to deliver 35 million tests for Quebeckers alone in January, just a few weeks ago. Those deliveries will continue. With this dialogue also comes a responsibility to continue providing federal government support to the millions of Quebeckers who need it.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Madam Speaker, our hearts go out to the hundreds of Canadians who have passed away as this pandemic continues, and we know we have a responsibility as parliamentarians to move very quickly on this. As we know, our leader, the member for Burnaby South, has been pushing for rapid tests and immediate procurement of them for some months, but we know with this bill we also need to make sure there is parliamentary accountability. Our health critic, the member for Vancouver Kingsway, has been foremost in the House calling for a clear accountability schedule.

Can the minister confirm formally today that the government will be reporting every six months to Parliament with full disclosure on the number of tests purchased, where they have been distributed and the effectiveness of the program? Can he confirm that now?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

Madam Speaker, the answer is yes. That is in part thanks to the advocacy of the member for New Westminster—Burnaby. He is a strong leader in his caucus. In fact, I have been engaged with many other leaders in B.C. over the last few days and weeks, as elsewhere in Canada. Those rapid tests, as the member mentioned, are essential to keep fighting the virus, and I welcome his input and the input of his entire caucus.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Madam Speaker, when the will and support are there from the chamber, we can very easily get things passed such as important legislation. I think of legislation that we passed late last year, and here we have before us legislation that would enact literally hundreds of millions of dollars toward rapid testing. There is absolutely no doubt that this is important legislation, given the very nature of the debates we have been witnessing, especially last week's concurrence report that was brought up to prevent some debate from taking place.

Does the minister not agree, given the very nature of the importance of rapid testing and that provinces, territories and stakeholders are calling for more rapid tests, that Ottawa has to step up to the plate and provide these badly needed tests, especially when we think of our small businesses, individuals and people who are in such high need today? We have witnessed that in particular over the last two and a half months.

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

Madam Speaker, he is entirely right. These rapid tests were delivered in large numbers to the provinces and territories for the purposes he mentioned. They would also be delivered directly to chambers of commerce, the Canadian Red Cross and community organizations that have direct and strong links with Canadians in their communities across Canada. They have been extremely useful since October 2020. Provinces and territories, in the last few weeks, have asked for enhanced quantities of these rapid tests, which is great news. We must continue to support them in their important and sometimes difficult efforts to deal with and fight the virus.

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

Madam Speaker, it is always nice to rise and speak in the House, but I would rather be debating something other than a gag order.

What is happening once again this morning is that the government has decided to shut down debate on a bill that will cost billions of dollars.

Let us be very clear. On this side of the House, we are in favour of purchasing rapid tests, and I think it is safe to say that all parliamentarians agree on that. For more than a year and a half, we have been pushing the government to purchase and develop rapid tests to give people more tools, so they can get on with their lives, despite the pandemic we are facing. We have no problem with that.

What we have a problem with is the $2.5 billion we are talking about spending. Parliamentarians must at least have a chance to carefully examine each expenditure. As my Bloc Québécois colleague said earlier, that is our job, and we must do it properly.

We are also surprised by the sense of urgency. Why the rush to act immediately? There is no hurry. First of all, the bill, as drafted, is retroactive. This proves that we have already started to act, so there is no immediate urgency.

Better still, if by chance this motion is adopted with the complicity of others, the bill will be passed around 2 a.m. or 3 a.m. I say bravo and thank you, but it will have to go to the Senate, and the Senate is not sitting this week. There is no urgency.

Why is the government creating yet another crisis?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

Madam Speaker, my esteemed colleague, whom I very much like, mentioned the word “urgency” several times, and this is indeed an urgent matter.

We are in the middle of a COVID-19 pandemic with the omicron variant, which is filling hospital beds in Quebec and elsewhere in Canada. The provinces and territories need more rapid tests now, in addition to the ones they received over the past few weeks and months.

I completely agree that the Canadian government needs to be accountable. Again, I note the commitment we are making with the NDP member for New Westminster—Burnaby to report back every six months. Full reports on the cost, numbers and usage for the rapid tests will be released. Again, I congratulate him on his contribution.

We have all day to talk about this in a meaningful way.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Madam Speaker, I must say, parenthetically, that I sat on the health committee for the last two years and my hon. colleague, the member for Calgary Nose Hill, a year and a half ago, was hammering at the need for this government to provide rapid tests. Here we have a bill before us, a two-section bill, that would allow this government to provide rapid tests to Canadians, and the Conservatives are saying, “We have to hold this up.” I do not understand their position.

However, my question is about the numbers. In my talks with department officials, they confirmed that this $2.5 billion would purchase about 400 million rapid tests. To put that in context, Dr. David Juncker, the department chair of biomedical engineering at McGill University, estimates that with the highly transmissible omicron variant Canada would require as many as 600 million to 700 million tests per month and then two tests per person every week once the wave subsides.

Considering how important testing and tracing is, because we cannot treat what we do not measure, can the hon. minister tell us if this is anywhere near the number of rapid tests that this country is actually going to need to help get Canadians out of this pandemic?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

Madam Speaker, my colleague is right: We cannot fight what we do not know or do not measure. That is one important reason, as he alluded, we need rapid tests and, obviously, the additional PCR molecular tests that we have been using for many months. These are complementary tools. We had the delivery of 140 million rapid tests in January, and in addition to that we have been delivering rapid tests to chambers of commerce, small and medium-sized businesses, community organizations, the Canadian Red Cross and many other partners across Canada. This is key, as the member rightly said, towards measuring and appropriately fighting the impact that COVID-19 has on our society.

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Madam Speaker, one of things that we have begun to talk about in the House over and over again is democracy. I think it is incredibly important, when we understand exactly what is going on outside, that people are frustrated with the democratic leadership from across the aisle here. If we do not begin to address these things, if all we do is pass motions that the minority government wishes to have passed, then we are not honouring the democratic process and I take significant umbrage with that. I think that is inappropriate and not what I was elected to come here for. I would really like to hear the hon. minister speak on that.

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

Madam Speaker, I will take this wonderful opportunity to say that we are all privileged to be leaders in this democratic process. We will have an entire day today to speak about this particular bill.

More generally, we have the responsibility every day of looking after the health and safety of Canadians. That comes, in part, through those investments. These are big investments. We are speaking about $2.5 billion that the provinces, territories, and Canadians more broadly need now in order to avoid many more billions of dollars of social, economic and fiscal costs that COVID-19 has created for our society and will continue to if we do not have all the tools that we need to fight this crisis.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Madam Speaker, of course we hope that rapid tests will be available. The member for Burnaby South has been a strong advocate for increasing distribution to everyone and, as I mentioned earlier, the member for Vancouver Kingsway really pushed for greater transparency in Bill C-10.

Can the minister officially confirm whether a full report will be provided to the House every six months on how much money was spent, how many tests were purchased and how the tests were distributed?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

Madam Speaker, I confirm unequivocally that a report will be provided every six months on the important elements that the member just mentioned, and rightly so, namely, the dollar amounts, the number of tests and their use in the following months.

As he pointed out, this will be a way of ensuring that there is significant and necessary accountability on the part of the Canadian government on this issue.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Madam Speaker, I wonder if the Minister of Health could provide those following the debate with an explanation of what the federal government's role is, with respect to rapid tests. I think it is an excellent example of a team Canada approach where provinces, territories and communities are working with Ottawa to ensure that rapid testing is done.

Could the minister just go over the process of why the federal government is the governing body that is actually buying and procuring these rapid tests?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

Madam Speaker, I will say three things, briefly.

First, about the investments that we have made, $8 out of every $10 of the total economic support that has gone to businesses and workers over the past 22 months has been provided by the federal government's leadership.

Second, an additional $63 billion has been invested in protecting the health and safety of Canadians. That is in addition to other investments, such as the Canada health transfers that have obviously continued and even increased during COVID-19.

Third, the federal government's leadership is key when it comes to providing rapid tests, PPE, vaccines and therapeutics, such as the Paxlovid antiviral treatment that we now have in Canada. We are among the first countries in the world to have that. As a federation, we have an advantage, but also a responsibility when it comes to the leadership of the federal government. I am glad that all members of the house, certainly on this side, agree with the importance of that leadership.

[Scot Davidson, Conservative, York—Simcoe, ON]

Madam Speaker, the hon. health minister suggests that rapid tests have been important to his government. Two summers ago my colleagues and I in the Ontario Conservative caucus tested a rapid test that was widely available in the U.S. and Europe, but had not received approval by Health Canada after months of delays. We were condemned by the Prime Minister and state media. The article is there. Instead of picking up the pace on approvals, Health Canada tried to threaten me and punish the rapid test manufacturer.

If rapid tests are so important to the Liberal government, why has there been a constant pattern of delay and intimidation from it, instead of actually working to get more tests into the hands of Canadians?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

Madam Speaker, the member for York—Simcoe is asking why they are important to the federal government. Let me give two examples.

The first is from the regulatory side, which the member mentioned. Health Canada has approved dozens of rapid tests. These are not only antigen tests, but molecular tests. It has approved all sorts of other tests over the past months and years. Canadians expect Health Canada to do its job, which is to protect the health and safety of Canadians, by approving as many rapid tests as it can, but also by making sure that these tests are efficient and safe.

The second reason I can give to demonstrate the importance of rapid tests is as I mentioned. Before December, 2021, on average, provinces and territories were requesting about seven million rapid tests per month. We moved from seven million to 35 million in December, 2021, and then to 140 million rapid tests in January, multiplying by 20 the number of rapid tests available to provinces and territories, despite the fact that every other country on earth was fighting for these rapid tests.

We are doing the right thing, and we are doing it in exceedingly challenging global supply chain circumstances.

[Lori Idlout, NDP, Nunavut, NU]

Qujannamiik uqaqtittiji.

On January 6, the Government of Nunavut announced it would limit testing to preserve tests only for health care workers. By January 12, the federal government announced that 140,000 tests would be sent to Nunavut. Nunavut's population is more than double that.

Can the minister confirm more than 155,000 tests will be sent to Nunavut so that any resident requiring the test will be able to take it?

Qujannamiik.

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

Madam Speaker, I have a great relationship with Minister Main: my colleague, the minister of health in Nunavut. We have been working together really well, and I want to commend him and his government on their leadership and what they have done over the past few weeks and months. It has been critical for us to do that together, because the people in Nunavut are facing challenges that southerners are not always able to fully appreciate. I want to congratulate them for their collaboration and I would be glad to provide, through my team, more details on the exact numbers and circumstances in which rapid tests have been provided to the Government of Nunavut.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

Madam Speaker, it is great to see that we are using chambers of commerce as a delivery tool to get to the small businesses in our communities, so that they can continue to operate safely with their employees having access to rapid tests. The Guelph Chamber of Commerce has been able to distribute tens of thousands of tests in my community. It is a neighbour of ours, and on Wednesdays we see people picking up rapid test kits so their employees can be safe.

Could the hon. member talk about the use of chambers of commerce in our communities to help keep employees safe?