Debates of Feb. 15th, 2022

Government Business No. 7—Proceedings on Bill C-12

[Eric Melillo, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank the member for Calgary Midnapore for splitting her time with me today and giving me the opportunity to join this debate.

I would like to say that it is a pleasure to join the debate today, and to some degree it is, but, unfortunately, it is also a bit frustrating to be here debating the bill before us considering the two years that have gone by since this issue was first brought to light for the Liberal government, which is now taking action to try to rectify it. However, there is some frustration there with the timeline. Of course, we are talking about seniors applying for CERB, reaching out for pandemic benefits and having their GIS clawed back as a result.

I will talk more about the direct issue at hand in just a moment, but I would like to lay out the groundwork a bit more and talk about why this is so important, especially right now with inflation rising at the rate that it is.

The cost of everything is going up. Everyday essentials such as gas and groceries are growing, especially in regions like mine in northwestern Ontario and across the Kenora riding, where the costs are usually higher than in many other regions in the country. It is getting harder for everyone to get by, particularly seniors, who are on fixed incomes and who have worked their whole lives to help build a country. They have paid into the system, but they are now not properly supported. They do not have the support they need in order to keep up with the rising costs of living.

Of course, throughout the pandemic, the government had great, new spending programs, and printed a lot of money for them, which added to inflation and caused the crisis we are seeing right now. The Parliamentary Budget Officer has confirmed that. The PBO has also said that the rationale for stimulus no longer exists, but that is a bit of a different discussion.

I would like to share what I have been hearing in my riding and across the country. When we look at groceries, food prices overall have increased by about 4%. I believe beef is up nearly 12% and bacon is up more than 19%. As I mentioned, it is not just groceries.

For home heating, natural gas is up 20%. In Canada and northern Ontario, home heating is certainly not a luxury. It is a necessity for seniors to be able to heat their homes. Just last week, the price of gas in Red Lake in my riding was hovering just below $1.70 a litre. Of course, this is in a region that is northern and rural, and many communities are considered remote. The people in Red Lake do not have the option to take other modes of transportation. They need to pay that cost.

A constituent of mine in Sioux Lookout recently shared his home heating bill with me, which showed that he was paying $70 a week in carbon taxes alone. In Sioux Lookout, heating is something that is not a choice, as we have to heat our homes, especially in the winter months when it gets much colder.

We have this cost of living crisis, this economic crisis, coupled with the health crisis of the COVID-19 pandemic. This is something that has hit seniors particularly hard. Many seniors are at an increased health risk and are more vulnerable to the virus than other Canadians, and for that reason, many seniors had to withdraw from some of their activities that they previously enjoyed.

Many seniors were not comfortable going to the grocery store or doing simple tasks with the threat of the pandemic out there, not to mention the fact that there is an emotional toll to all of this, which I think everyone has felt to some degree. I think every family has been touched with mental health challenges throughout the course of this pandemic because of isolation and not being able to see loved ones. Seniors in my riding have mentioned to me that it has been particularly difficult for them.

We have these two crises that have come to a head at the same time, and that is why many seniors reached out to the government. They looked to the government for support, applying for programs like the CERB to help get them through this difficult time with the rising cost of living and all the challenges COVID brought on.

Of course, these seniors were not expecting the government to claw back their GIS or have it eliminated entirely, and that is the heart of the concern that we are dealing with right now. It is why I am pleased to see the government is now taking some action to rectify that issue, but it has come frustratingly too late for many seniors across the Kenora district and across the country.

I do not have the numbers right in front of me, but there are not many issues that I hear about more in my constituency office, or in my Ottawa office, than seniors' issues with the cost of living and not being able to get by. I have been on the phone with many seniors in my riding.

I know many of my staff members have as well. Two in particular are Jordyn Ham and Madison McSweeney, who are working in the Ottawa office. I hope they do not mind me mentioning them here in the House. They have done an amazing job reaching out to those constituents, having conversations with them and helping them try to get through these difficult times.

It has been tough. It has been tough for us. We have had seniors come into our office in tears. They are frustrated. They are not sure how they are going to heat their homes or if they are going to be able to put food on the table, and it is clearly an issue that is of the government's creation. That is why the government must act to prevent another clawback, and that is why I am pleased to see the Liberals are moving forward on this.

However, I think it was the critic for seniors, the member for Hastings—Lennox and Addington, who noted that this has been an issue for two years, and we are now just getting to the debate. That should be frustrating to everybody in the House, and everyone should take issue with that.

Another thing I have been hearing from seniors in my riding is that they need a guarantee. Seniors need to know that this payment will not be taxable. They need to know that further changes and solutions the government actually comes up with are going to have the effect they need. I think there is a bit of distrust, given what has happened previously, and I have been heartened by what I have heard here today in the debate. I think most people in the House tend to be on the same page, and I hope that will give some level of comfort to the seniors in the Kenora riding as well.

With the limited time I have, I just want to make it incredibly clear that these seniors are not tax cheats. They are not people trying to game the system. They are struggling and facing such a hard time in their lives, after paying into the system and doing everything right to try to provide for themselves. It is incredibly important that we move forward to give them the support they rightly need.

To seniors who may be watching or following the debate, I want them to know that the Conservative Party has not forgotten them. The Conservative party is going to have their backs, and we are going to be continuing to advocate for them to ensure that the government follows through and that the government does not claw back any further benefits.

I appreciate the opportunity to contribute to the debate today, and I am looking forward to any questions or comments that my colleagues might have.

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of National Revenue]

Mr. Speaker, the member spoke well, as he always does. He is one of the youngest members in this House, if I am not mistaken, but he is also one of the most thoughtful I have had the chance to work with.

That is why I was surprised, when he spoke about inflation, that there was no reference made to the global situation and putting inflation in a global context, the way the pandemic, for example, has impacted supply chains around the world and the effect that has had for countries like Canada, in terms of inflation. I know the member will make reference to quantitative easing and the impact that has had, but at best, according to most economists, that impact has been minimal, in terms of inflation in Canada.

Why not focus on the global reality, in terms of its impact on inflation?

[Eric Melillo, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

Mr. Speaker, it is an important question. There is no question that what is happening globally is to a degree playing out here in Canada as well. I think everyone can agree with that. However, as the Parliamentary Budget Officer confirmed, the stimulus spending that the government carried out contributed drastically to the inflation we are seeing in Canada, and the greatest rise in inflation that we are seeing is in items that we produce right here in Canada, such as natural gas, beef and pork.

I understand the member is coming from the global perspective, but I do think it is important to note that in a lot of ways the cost of living crisis is very much a homegrown problem.

[Marilyn Gladu, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

Mr. Speaker, one of the things that I was concerned about from a process point of view was that the Liberals wanted to just whiz through all the parliamentary processes to get this thing done. The Conservatives brought forward quite a reasoned amendment through the member for Hastings—Lennox and Addington to say that we agree and that we want to see the seniors get this money as soon as possible, so let us get to committee, have the Minister of Seniors there to answer all the questions and then move forward right away. Does the member agree that this would have been a reasonable compromise for all of us to agree to?

[Eric Melillo, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

Mr. Speaker, that is an important question. The short answer is yes, absolutely, that would be a reasonable compromise.

In my view, it is not the job of the opposition or any members of this House to prioritize the government's legislation. That is the government's job, and unfortunately, despite having this issue brought to its attention two years ago, the government was quite slow to act to address it. It had time to call an election in between, and unfortunately that is why we are still debating it here today.

To the member's question, I absolutely would agree that the amendment that was brought forward would be very positive and strong, and I hope that we will see all members in the House support that reasonable proposal.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the member referenced how his riding is specifically in the north and is remote and rural. I imagine that this GIS clawback on seniors in his riding would have had even more significant impact on these Canadians, who are really left to obtain their necessities in their local communities. I am hoping the member can elaborate on that and even provide more context as to the struggles that his citizens, seniors in particular, have faced throughout this pandemic.

[Eric Melillo, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate that question from my colleague because it is something I was hoping to mention in my speech, but I neglected to do so.

It was very difficult for seniors in my riding. Given that we are living in a rural northern area, there are limited services. It was more difficult for many seniors to be able to connect to government sites through the Internet. Of course, CRA phone lines were jammed with calls from many seniors across the country, so it was quite difficult, and being in the northern remote region of the Kenora district made it that much more difficult.

[Greg Fergus, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister and to the President of the Treasury Board]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to inform you that I will be sharing my time with the hon. member for Scarborough—Agincourt.

I am very pleased to participate in this debate, but I must admit that I am wondering why we are debating this motion tonight when we could quickly take action. If there is one time when members should be unanimous, it is this evening on this bill.

We are here to debate Bill C-12, an act to amend the Old Age Security Act to provide a guaranteed income supplement exemption. I would like to explain this to the Canadians who are watching at home. Usually when we study a bill, it involves a rather complex process. To make amendments to a law, often many changes are needed here and there. We must be certain of the changes to be made. In this case, it is very simple.

In the French version of the bill, only five lines were changed. Those five lines will change our tax system to eliminate a problem for seniors. All political parties in the House of Commons recognize that this problem must be fixed.

My wonderful colleague from northern Ontario just expressed his approval. Earlier today there were speeches by Bloc Québécois members who indicated their support. The NDP members have said they support it. I cannot figure out why we are still debating this motion. We may even end up straying from the topic because some of the parties like playing political games.

We really have to meet the needs of Canada's seniors. That is why I am urging my opposition party colleagues, especially the Conservative and Bloc Québécois members, to approve this. I hope that, once they have read these five lines, they will give their approval so we can get on with it.

We know how we got to this point. The pandemic hit. Unfortunately, some seniors who had been working part time or full time to earn extra money had to stop working. The pandemic caused problems for everyone in Canada. People lost their jobs overnight. Everyone did their part to stop the spread of the virus.

They had access to some substantial programs that we created to support Canadians and our businesses. They received money from the Canada emergency response benefit, or CERB.

As my colleagues know, our public pension benefits and the guaranteed income supplement are calculated every year based on income received the previous year. These people will unfortunately be affected by this change, but amendments will solve this problem.

I want to take a moment to explain exactly how it works. As many of my colleagues have already pointed out, these people will be penalized for this tax year, and we do not want that to happen, as we have heard from many people who have contacted our offices. We need to address this issue, and that is exactly what we are proposing to do.

That is why I think it is important for us to take swift action, and that is what I am prepared to do. It is almost 7:40 p.m. eastern time. If everyone were to agree right now that no one else will speak to this bill, we could proceed directly to the vote. That would be a good thing for Canadians and would reassure them that we are finally going to fix this issue. The bill is a short one, with just five lines.

That is why I think we need to take action, and I hope to convince my colleagues to join me.

I want to be clear and remind everyone what Bill C‑12 will do. The bill will prevent the guaranteed income supplement and allowances from being reduced come July. That is it. This bill will stop a problem from happening. We all agree that pandemic-related benefits should not be considered income for the purposes of calculating the guaranteed income supplement. If we all agree, that is what Bill C‑12, a bill that is five lines long, will do. It is short, simple and clear. Let us get moving.

We are moving quickly because we know that these supports need to be put into place quickly. As I have already mentioned, the system changes that are needed would be put into place by our incredible public servants, who are going to make sure that this happens in time.

Seniors who have had to access these benefits to make ends meet during a public health crisis might be penalized because their Conservative and Bloc representatives are incapable of setting partisanship aside and are trying to thwart the process. That would be unfair.

Once again, this should not surprise my colleagues. Unfortunately, the Conservatives have shown every step of the way that they are not there for Canadians, despite what the member who rose before me said:

“We have your backs.”

That is something the Prime Minister often says. If the Conservatives want to borrow our words, I encourage them to also get on board with how quickly we want to take action.

On behalf of seniors, I hope my Conservative and Bloc Québécois friends will join us in supporting this motion without amendment, so we can deliver for seniors who need this support, seniors who have given so much throughout their lives.

I know my colleagues support seniors. I encourage them to join us in getting this bill passed quickly so we can be there for Canadians.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague down the way for asking the right questions. Why are we doing this tonight? Why are we having this debate when we know what the right thing to do is? It is to support our seniors as quickly as possible.

How did we get here? When we think of the CERB being put into place, it is because of the tools we had as a federal government through employment insurance. Some of the characteristics of the employment insurance programs, such as income testing, found their way into the program that we delivered at rapid, lightning speed through our departments, and now we are doing the right thing. That test did not work for seniors who were supplementing income, so we have to do the right thing by seniors.

I agree with the hon. member that we should be getting to the vote now. We should not be delaying this on behalf of our seniors.

Could the hon. member reflect on how quickly we did what we did using the tools we had through employment insurance to create a new program? Now we are pulling that back since it was not exactly employment insurance, but the CERB emergency response we did.

[Greg Fergus, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Mr. Speaker, we are not perfect, but we try our best. We came up with many innovative ways to help support Canadians. I would like to thank the opposition parties, because during the beginning of the crisis, they were also there and Parliament did its best in supporting Canadians. I am very pleased to be part of a government that proposed these ideas and took on the best ideas of the opposition.

We are, I hope, coming near the end of this pandemic. We all hope that. However, we are not quite there yet; we are still in it. We have an opportunity to help seniors right now, and I ask my hon. colleagues across the way to once again join hands and do what we did at the front end of this pandemic and support our seniors. There are five simple lines that we can adopt to make this happen.

This is very important. I hope my colleagues will be there to support this bill.

[Tracy Gray, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the member referenced that some people in the House only want to play political games, to use his words. It sounds like he feels the parliamentary process is a political game or that legislation going to committee is a political game.

Does he feel that no legislation should be going to committee or only some legislation should be going to committee? What does he base that opinion on and what is the rationale for his thoughts on what should be going to committee?

[Greg Fergus, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I am a really big believer in the parliamentary process. Usually, when we come to this place, we examine very complex pieces of legislation. It makes sense that we cannot always consider things as 338 people, so we send them to committee to be looked at. Those 12 people look very carefully at legislation.

The bill is just five lines. It is not going to take us a long time to figure this out. I am certain the members across the way have come to an assessment of where they are, because all their speeches have said they are going to support it. Why not get ahead of the game and bring security to our seniors to show them we all have their backs and want to get this passed right away?

[René Villemure, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I commend my colleague from Hull—Aylmer.

Even though we sometimes agree in principle, and even though we all agree that seniors need to be helped, I have the following question for him: Does he believe that an agreement, even in principle, precludes critical thinking? Should speed replace due diligence?

I am curious.

[Greg Fergus, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my friend from Trois-Rivières for his question. We work together at the Standing Committee on Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics, and it is a pleasure for me.

I agree, we must be very diligent. However, we are talking about five lines here. It is not complex. It is very simple. Not only do we all agree on the principle, but I am sure that we all agree on the text itself.

That is why I think that in this case, we can all unite to pass this bill immediately and provide reassurance to our seniors.

[Jean Yip, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Mr. Speaker, it is indeed a pleasure to join the debate in the House today on the traditional territory of the Algonquin Anishinabe people to discuss proceedings on Bill C-12, an act to amend the Old Age Security Act. The bill would exempt pandemic relief benefits from the calculation of the guaranteed income supplement, or the GIS, and allowance benefits, beginning in July 2022.

As members know, our government acted swiftly to be there for Canadians when the pandemic first hit our communities. Our number one priority was to make sure that all Canadians were protected. The Canada emergency response benefit was put in place very quickly in 2020 to help people avoid catastrophic income loss during COVID. The CERB and then the Canada recovery benefit did just that. It helped millions of Canadians. Some low-income working seniors relied on pandemic relief benefits, as they too were eligible and could not continue working. These are the people we are focused on today, like the seniors in my riding of Scarborough—Agincourt who have called my office with questions. This is the answer for them.

The Minister of Seniors heard all seniors across the country and she brought forward a bill, but these benefits are now, unfortunately, having an impact on some vulnerable seniors. We therefore introduced Bill C-12 to mitigate those impacts going forward. This is a simple yet very significant amendment. Bill C-12 understands that when this unpredictable global public health crisis hit and we rolled out pandemic benefits quickly, the benefits were not intended to impact monthly low-income benefits. We explained that they would be taxable income. However, low-income seniors were trying to make ends meet at the time of crisis.

I would say this is a non-partisan cause, and it is proactive, automatic and has spinoff benefits. This would help keep more GIS recipients on the provincial benefits they rely on as well. This is a point that means a great deal to seniors regarding dental and housing benefits in some provinces, like Ontario.

While we have committed to fully compensating those affected seniors with a one-time, automatic, non-taxable payment, the pandemic is not over. Seniors' livelihoods were affected in 2021 and now even into 2022. Seniors depended on the Canada recovery benefit, Canada worker lockdown benefit, Canada recovery sickness benefit and many other pandemic supports. Bill C-12 gives a chance to the parties opposite to help us restore some hope for seniors. This is a matter that we can all get behind. This is an opportunity for all members of the House to show that they do in fact care for the most vulnerable and for Canada's seniors who built this country.

Seniors want to see government respond to the issues raised by stakeholders and those who are affected. Some affected seniors only lost a small amount of GIS, while some were taken off entirely. There is a range of situations. That is why evidence-based targeted approaches are the right solution to compensating affected seniors.

Let us remind ourselves that every July, an individual's entitlement for the GIS or the allowance is reassessed based on the individual's income or the combined income of a couple, as reported on their tax return. July is fast approaching, so the timing on this is very important. Tax season has once again begun and the GIS will be recalculated this July. That is why we need to ensure the bill is passed immediately so that low-income seniors, like the ones in Scarborough—Agincourt, are not affected for a second or third time for that matter. I want to remind seniors to file their taxes to ensure that their benefits will continue.

Let me be clear. Parliamentary processes are important to this government. We respect the House, but we are also concerned for our seniors who are worrying right now. We ask all members to help us strike this balance. We can uphold the processes of Parliament and have the backs of low-income seniors.

We have worked very hard and engaged with members from all parties on this very pressing matter from the very beginning. The Minister of Seniors engaged with her critics. From tabling this bill to technical briefings to second reading, we are ensuring that the bill goes through vigorous processes and analysis.

Just yesterday, although the minister was at the human resources committee to speak particularly on her mandate letter, she dedicated a significant amount of time speaking about Bill C-12 and answering any questions members had.

We did not just want to provide a quick fix. We wanted to ensure seniors would not be facing such a loss or reduction in benefits again. Bill C-12 would permanently exempt federal pandemic benefits from the calculation of GIS or allowance benefits, beginning in July 2022, which would prevent this from happening again. To be clear, the following benefits would be exempt: the Canada emergency response benefit, including any CERB amount paid under the Employment Insurance Act; the Canada recovery benefit; the Canada recovery sickness benefit; the Canada recovery caregiving benefit; and the Canada worker lockdown benefit. Once again, we are proposing this change to the OAS Act to ensure this problem never happens again.

Bill C-12 would make an important legislative change that would provide seniors with the certainty and peace of mind that, in the future, they would receive the GIS and allowance benefits to which they are entitled, without the need for a one-time payment. This bill is simple and understandable. I could easily read the bill to the House to showcase its simplicity. There is no fine print.

Moreover, this is not the first time an amendment would be made to the Old Age Security Act. In fact, it underwent its first big important amendment in 1966. That was the amendment that created the guaranteed income supplement, the very mechanism we are dealing with today in Bill C-12. The idea of this mechanism was always to support the lowest-income and most vulnerable seniors. We all agree that prioritizing them is the right approach. Seniors who took these benefits need a quick response to keep them confident that their financial security will be protected. This is what we are here for.

This is what I hope opposition parties will join us in doing today. All parties have already agreed that this is the most pressing or one of the top priorities for them because it relates to vulnerable, low-income seniors. This would mean to me that all members should explicitly show support for Bill C-12 and move it ahead quickly.

Seniors deserve nothing less than diligent and co-operative work in this regard. As parliamentarians and Canadians, we owe this to our seniors, and I hope we can all get behind Bill C-12.

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of National Revenue]

Mr. Speaker, our colleague has done incredible work over the years as the chair of the seniors caucus. I wonder if she could share with the House the way that work has informed her understanding of the bill and how the bill would impact seniors in her riding.

[Jean Yip, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Mr. Speaker, it has been a great honour to be the co-chair of the Liberals' seniors caucus. I believe this bill is important because we need to take care of our most vulnerable seniors. In my work in that caucus, we heard from so many seniors across the country. As I mentioned in my speech, it should be everybody's number one priority in the House to get this bill passed.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I echo the congratulations to the member for Scarborough—Agincourt for her work on the seniors caucus. Friday afternoons, when many MPs are thinking about weekends, she is still working on behalf of seniors.

Looking at details like this, the automatic payment portion is important. In my office, we get a lot of inquiries from seniors. Sometimes, when we ask them if they have applied for a benefit, they have not because they do not realize it is there, so guiding them toward automated processes like this might be able to help with other programs. Could the hon. member comment on that?

[Jean Yip, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Mr. Speaker, it is indeed important that affected seniors understand that this payment will go directly into their bank accounts. It is the easiest way for them to receive the payment.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons (Senate)]

Mr. Speaker, I want to thank the member for speaking about the impact this particular piece of legislation will have on Canadian seniors. At the end of the day, we need to get this bill passed quickly because it is absolutely critical that we get these measures in place for the next tax season.

I am wondering if the member could expand on the urgency of this and how important it is for constituents in her riding that this happens now, today, instead of waiting even another day or two.

[Jean Yip, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Mr. Speaker, it is indeed urgent. I have had many phone calls from seniors. When I visit seniors' residences, affected seniors mention it is important that they be able to receive the funds. I would urge all members in the House to put their support behind this bill.

[The Speaker, Liberal, Anthony Rota]

It being 8 p.m., pursuant to an order made earlier today, it is my duty to interrupt the proceedings and put forthwith every question necessary to dispose of Government Business No. 7 now before the House.

If a member of a recognized party present in the House wishes to request a recorded division or that the amendment be adopted on division, I would invite them to rise and indicate it to the Chair.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Mr. Speaker, I would request a recorded vote, please.

[The Speaker, Liberal, Anthony Rota]

Call in the members.

(The House divided on the amendment, which was negatived on the following division:)

Vote #29