House of Commons Hansard #31 of the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was quickly.

Topics

Old Age Security ActGovernment Orders

9:50 p.m.

Kingston and the Islands Ontario

Liberal

Mark Gerretsen LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons (Senate)

Mr. Speaker, I found it interesting that the member, as she reflected on the Harper years, referenced back to things like tax-free savings accounts and registered retirement income funds, all stuff that well-off seniors can afford. I do not know many low-income seniors who are tapping into the tax-free savings accounts. Yes, the Conservative Party certainly does have a history of being sure to take care of those who are well off.

Nonetheless, I took great issue with her comment that the NDP is somehow having to come up and cover up mistakes. The NDP is actually the only party that has been participating over the last two days in moving forward with legislation to get things into people's hands, and to get legislation passed for the betterment of Canadians. The New Democrats have actually been participating in making that happen.

This member identified the problems and the urgency of moving quickly, but then in the same breath asked why the NDP is supporting us to move quickly on this. She is being hypocritical in her approach to this, and I cannot help but think that is just for partisan interest.

Old Age Security ActGovernment Orders

9:50 p.m.

Conservative

Shelby Kramp-Neuman Conservative Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON

Mr. Speaker, I will certainly be the first to acknowledge how helpful the minister has been. The technical briefing was wonderful. With no disrespect, there has been no reluctance for us to move forward. Seniors that have built this country deserve for all of us to move forward together.

Old Age Security ActGovernment Orders

9:50 p.m.

NDP

Richard Cannings NDP South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member made a comment wondering why the NDP is always running around fixing Liberal mistakes. Well, it is because the NDP is focused on one thing, and that is helping Canadians. When the pandemic first hit, people were suffering. It was the NDP that pushed for supports for seniors and people with disabilities. The Liberals were not there and the Conservatives were not there. It was the NDP that was pushing for that.

If the pandemic has taught us one thing, it is that we have the ability in the House to make decisions to help Canadians, and we have the capacity to do that. One thing that would really accomplish that, which would go a long way to help seniors and people with disabilities, is a guaranteed livable basic income. We have a private member's bill on that, Bill C-223, which is on the docket.

I am wondering, if Conservatives care about seniors, if they will support that bill.

Old Age Security ActGovernment Orders

9:50 p.m.

Conservative

Shelby Kramp-Neuman Conservative Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON

Mr. Speaker, I do not think it has ever been in question whether we care for seniors. That is 100% not debatable.

We can all recognize that we are in a historic and quite an alarming moment in Canadian history. I can speak for all Conservatives when I say it is really important that we continue to look at and consider everything that will improve the lives of all of our Canadian seniors moving forward.

Old Age Security ActGovernment Orders

9:55 p.m.

Bloc

Sébastien Lemire Bloc Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC

Mr. Speaker, I listened to the speech by my colleague from Hastings—Lennox and Addington, and I took notes, especially when she was talking about recognizing the dignity of workers.

The Bloc Québécois made its position very clear during the election campaign: We want old age security to be increased by $110 a month starting at 65. We will not create two classes of seniors. We want to be sure to increase seniors' purchasing power because everything costs more now, including groceries and housing.

My question for my Conservative colleague is this: Does she think that the Liberals are being stingy?

Old Age Security ActGovernment Orders

9:55 p.m.

Conservative

Shelby Kramp-Neuman Conservative Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON

Mr. Speaker, what I will suggest here is that the focus of tonight's debate is on C-12. The principle and simplicity of this bill speaks to the necessity of it and our rationale was that although we have no reason to delay, we certainly wanted a timely, thorough study on it.

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9:55 p.m.

Conservative

Michael Kram Conservative Regina—Wascana, SK

Mr. Speaker, in the hon. member's speech, she mentioned some of the mental health implications of the pandemic on seniors in particular.

I wonder if she could share with the chamber, what should the government be doing differently, and what could the government have done differently, to minimize some of the mental health impact of the pandemic on seniors?

Old Age Security ActGovernment Orders

9:55 p.m.

Conservative

Shelby Kramp-Neuman Conservative Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON

Mr. Speaker, I know, for example, that we we are waiting on the three-digit hotline. It is in the works and we are just waiting and waiting. I do not know where it is, but the sooner we find out, the better.

There are so many seniors, and actually those in all demographics, who are suffering right now. The mental health of Canadians is at an all-time low, and there has never been a more pressing time to act on the three-digit hotline.

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9:55 p.m.

Bloc

Jean-Denis Garon Bloc Mirabel, QC

Mr. Speaker, when we suggested some improvements to the short Bill C‑12, I heard some Liberal Party members talk about how making improvements is partisan. That explains a lot. I am starting to understand them more.

I can be slow to catch on, so I would appreciate it if my colleague could explain why, after seniors have endured 21 months of reduced benefits, it is partisan to ask for the payment to be adjusted as of March.

Old Age Security ActGovernment Orders

9:55 p.m.

Conservative

Shelby Kramp-Neuman Conservative Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON

Mr. Speaker, I think that the rationale for us wanting some additional explanation is to respect the process of this Parliament and of this place. We are not attempting to delay this, but attempting to have thorough, respectful dialogue.

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9:55 p.m.

NDP

Taylor Bachrach NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

Mr. Speaker, I am a little confused by the arguments against the use of the procedural motion that we talked about earlier. The member spoke very strongly in support of seniors. There are seniors in the riding that I represent, and across Canada, who are having their GIS clawed back. They need the funds that the bill represents, and they need those funds quickly.

Could the member explain and speak directly to those seniors in our communities and tell them why House procedure, or following what she understands to be House procedure, is more important than getting them the money as soon as possible so they can pay their bills?

Old Age Security ActGovernment Orders

9:55 p.m.

Conservative

Shelby Kramp-Neuman Conservative Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON

Mr. Speaker, I am happy to respond.

This is a result of poor communication and a lack of dialogue. Recognizing that this is time sensitive, there would be no obvious hold up or delay in the delivery of this. We are not talking weeks and weeks. We are talking about giving it the prudent time that it deserves, and I do not think that is asking too much. We are not delaying the bill.

Old Age Security ActGovernment Orders

10 p.m.

Conservative

Tracy Gray Conservative Kelowna—Lake Country, BC

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for Hastings—Lennox and Addington for her caring and professional leadership on this file.

One of the things that really impacted me during the member's intervention was the reference to the minister's briefing binder, which had a lot of the information regarding the issues with the original legislation, which we are trying to correct here today. She also referenced some constituents from her riding, and I have heard very similar stories in my riding.

I am wondering if the member can comment, based on what she saw in the briefing binder, on whether there would have been opportunities over the last 21 months to resolve this prior to today.

Old Age Security ActGovernment Orders

10 p.m.

Conservative

Shelby Kramp-Neuman Conservative Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON

Mr. Speaker, indeed, there have been so many comments. As I spoke with colleagues, there were so many seniors who had been approaching them.

When I first looked at the briefing binder, I thought, wow, is this normal? Am I allowed to see this? However, the fact is, it is available for everyone. Perhaps it is the rookie in me, but I could not believe it when I read that this could have and should have been dealt with months ago. So, that is the most frustrating part of this whole thing.

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10 p.m.

Bloc

Sébastien Lemire Bloc Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC

Mr. Speaker, I will be sharing my time with the hon. member for Terrebonne and, who knows, perhaps little Hadrien as well.

In my time as the member for Abitibi—Témiscamingue, I have heard from many seniors in my riding who are very frustrated about their financial insecurity. They can no longer pay their bills.

Seniors have been the primary victims of COVID‑19. They are the ones more likely to die and to suffer the repercussions of the coronavirus. By repercussions, I mean isolation, anxiety and loss of purchasing power.

In my region of Abitibi—Témiscamingue, much like in the rest of Quebec and Canada, there are seniors who continue to work, in spite of their advanced age. They are still working because they still need an income to live independently.

I remember one woman from Témiscamingue whose supplementary income suddenly disappeared when the schools in Témiscamingue were shut down for months because of the health measures. She could no longer make ends meet but still had to pay her mortgage and car loan, so she applied for the Canada emergency response benefit, the much-touted CERB, as did many other seniors.

She was in for a nasty surprise. A few months after she applied, her guaranteed income supplement was massively clawed back to cover the CERB she had collected. That was a significant hit to her income for months. She spent many long months in a state of anxiety, constantly worried because she could not cover her payments.

That is what I heard from one person in my riding and, sadly, hers is not an isolated case. There are tens of thousands like it all over Quebec and Canada.

The worst of it is that the Liberal government responded by insisting that every CERB dollar received by a senior would result in a 50% cut to their GIS. That is equivalent to a federal taxation rate of 50%. It is the rich who should be taxed at 50%, not the most vulnerable members of our society.

It is appalling and shameful, all the more so because the Liberal government was well aware of the situation thanks to letters the Bloc Québécois sent to the Minister of Seniors and the Minister of Finance in 2021 describing the awful situation that so many seniors found themselves in. It is appalling and shameful because the Liberal Party did not seem to care about the problem these seniors are facing. It took ages to respond even though it has known about this difficult situation since May 2021. That is nine months, and it is way too long.

That is why, despite Bill C-12's shortcomings, the Bloc Québécois will vote to support it because time is running out. Why did the Liberal government wait so long to act? At the very least, the federal government should be able to exclude emergency benefits from the calculation of the guaranteed income supplement payable for any month after June 2022. This will avoid further penalizing GIS recipients as of July 2022.

Bill C-12 is a first step in ending the negative impact CERB has had on the GIS, but it will be too late if it does not happen until July. GIS payments have been reduced since July 1, 2021. For several months now, this has weakened the already precarious financial situation of many seniors. The Bloc Québécois has urged the government to move up the end of its cuts by changing the wording of the bill from “June 2022” to “March 2022”. This change, which would have increased benefit payments more quickly for seniors affected by this problem, was refused, supposedly for IT reasons, which we obviously deplore.

What is more, Bill C‑12 does not contain the retroactive one‑time payment that was promised in the December 2021 economic and fiscal update for reductions that had already been made. The fiscal update read: “The government proposes to provide up to $742.4 million for one-time payments to alleviate the financial hardship of GIS...recipients who received CERB or the Canada Recovery Benefit”.

It is hard for us to understand where the Liberal government is going with this. I think that it is improvising at seniors' expense. I think that this Parliament is not doing enough for seniors. We could do so much more.

Because of the many obstacles that seniors have faced, I personally have decided to start a seniors advisory committee in my riding. Now more than ever, I feel the need to bring the voice of seniors in my region to the House of Commons, because for far too long, they have been the most vulnerable and the most neglected by the Liberal government.

I am speaking in particular of those in rural and remote areas, where people must travel great distances, where there is little or no public transportation, where services are limited and, in some villages, non-existent.

Parliament is not doing enough for our seniors. We must be generous to our seniors. With their intelligence, tenacity, and the taxes they paid, they built everything that we use today: our houses, roads, bridges, hospitals, schools, factories, neighbourhoods and city centres. Our great-grandparents, grandparents and parents who are still living directly or indirectly built everything we own and made us everything we are. This pride has been weakened, and unfortunately that reflects how vulnerable our seniors are today.

We must cherish them and show greater appreciation for them. That is what the Bloc Québécois wants for seniors. That is why the Bloc Québécois is concerned with the quality of life they deserve to have. Seniors were hit the hardest by the pandemic and have received the least amount of support from the federal government.

That is why the Bloc Québécois, through our critic for seniors, the member for Shefford, launched a petition to ensure that our seniors have a decent quality of life. I invite everyone to consult the member for Shefford's Facebook page to link to this petition and to sign it.

That is also why the Bloc Québécois has proposed a series of measures to improve the standard of living for the people who built Quebec, in every single one of our regions, and to bolster their purchasing power. In Parliament, the Bloc Québécois raised the urgent need for legislators to increase old age security by $110 per month for all seniors 65 and older. Furthermore, the Bloc Québécois rejects any attempt to create two classes of seniors through age-based discrimination. Lastly, archaic and discriminatory provisions must be abolished from the Pension Act.

Surviving spouses of pensioners whose marriage or common-law relationship took place after the age of 60 or after retirement are not eligible to receive their late spouse's pension. The Bloc Québécois is calling for these discriminatory practices to be repealed. These provisions are an affront to the dignity of seniors who worked, for example, within the federal public service or in the Canadian Armed Forces. Quebeckers want seniors to enjoy a retirement that reflects the lifelong work they put into helping their families, communities and nation flourish. That is exactly what the Bloc Québécois wants.

This cannot be overstated: Health is Quebeckers' top priority. More than anything else, the pandemic showed us how important it is to strengthen Quebec's health care system. Service cuts in our health care centres this summer made it clear that the consequences of Ottawa's chronic health care underfunding will outlast the end of the pandemic. Ottawa needs to pay its fair share so people who are suffering can access quality health care and so our dedicated health care workers can get reinforcements and the working conditions they deserve.

The federal government needs to increase health transfers, no strings attached, to cover 35% of health care services, as Quebec and the provinces are unanimously demanding. The Bloc would also support home care by means of a tax credit. Quebeckers expect higher health transfers, and the Bloc Québécois has made that its number one issue.

Prices have been rising since 2021. Inflation is the highest it has been in over 35 years. Food prices have gone way up. Housing costs too. This is catastrophic for all lower-income seniors.

The Liberal Party is on the wrong track. Its only solutions are totally inadequate one-time payments. It also chose to create two classes of seniors by increasing OAS only for those 75 and up. That is unacceptable. In closing, let me reiterate: Parliament is not doing enough for our seniors.

Old Age Security ActGovernment Orders

10:10 p.m.

NDP

Richard Cannings NDP South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC

Madam Speaker, the member for Abitibi—Témiscamingue mentioned tax unfairness. It is starting to dawn on me that there is a bit of a pattern forming here. We have a government that did not act to help seniors who were having their GIS clawed back. The government went after the poorest of Canadians who applied for and received CERB because they were told to, and then the Liberals clawed that back. They went after small businesses in the last Parliament, and yet they are letting the wealthiest of Canadians and big corporations off the hook. The NDP has put forward the idea of having a wealth tax for people with assets of over $10 million. There are the CEO benefits they get. There just does not seem to be any appetite to go after the people who have actually done very well in this pandemic.

I am wondering if the member would support the NDP in calling for that tax fairness to make sure the wealthy pay their fair share and to stop going after the little—

Old Age Security ActGovernment Orders

10:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès) Liberal Alexandra Mendes

I have to give the hon. member time to answer.

The hon. member for Abitibi—Témiscamingue.

Old Age Security ActGovernment Orders

10:10 p.m.

Bloc

Sébastien Lemire Bloc Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC

Madam Speaker, I am always on the lookout for any opportunity to increase seniors' purchasing power. There are always measures and traps in what the NDP presents, so I will remain vigilant.

Let us put ourselves in the shoes of a senior. We have all visited seniors' homes in our ridings, and we have all received phone calls from seniors who are sure there has been an error because the amount on their pension cheque has changed by 34¢ or 6¢ or 8¢. Seniors are forced to count every last penny because their purchasing power has decreased significantly over the years. I say this again in all sincerity. I think the government is being cheap when it comes to seniors, and that has to change. It is a matter of dignity.

Old Age Security ActGovernment Orders

10:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès) Liberal Alexandra Mendes

The hon. member for Mirabel.

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10:10 p.m.

Bloc

Jean-Denis Garon Bloc Mirabel, QC

Madam Speaker, I believe you have the wrong riding and you meant to recognize the hon. member for Trois-Rivières.

Old Age Security ActGovernment Orders

10:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès) Liberal Alexandra Mendes

Yes, that is right. I apologize. The hon. member for Trois-Rivières.

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10:10 p.m.

Bloc

René Villemure Bloc Trois-Rivières, QC

Madam Speaker, you are forgiven.

I appreciate what my hon. colleague from Abitibi—Témiscamingue said. All parties agree that seniors are important. I often say that we are trying to replace speed with due diligence, but perhaps he would agree with me that there has been neither speed nor due diligence when it comes to this bill.

Old Age Security ActGovernment Orders

10:10 p.m.

Bloc

Sébastien Lemire Bloc Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC

Madam Speaker, I can see how you could get the member for Mirabel and the member for Trois-Rivières mixed up. I must admit that I confuse the two as well sometimes.

I thank my colleague from Trois-Rivières for his excellent question. Obviously, it is duly noted. I would remind members of what may be the most egregious part of the bill. It does not fix the entire issue of seniors, as it is only a small step. However, why does it not specify March 2022 as the date? That would be so simple.

Instead, the government is putting things off another three months by postponing increasing seniors' purchasing power until July. Seniors who are already affected by the pandemic, who cannot see their loved ones, who cannot spend time with their grandchildren, and whose mental health has already suffered over the past few years are anxious enough without this added major financial stress. The wealthy are not the ones going through this hardship. They are not the ones who are counting—

Old Age Security ActGovernment Orders

10:15 p.m.

Liberal

The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès) Liberal Alexandra Mendes

The hon. member for Nunavut for one last question.

Old Age Security ActGovernment Orders

10:15 p.m.

NDP

Lori Idlout NDP Nunavut, NU

Qujannamiik, uqaqtittiji. I want to express that the member for Abitibi—Témiscamingue and I have some similarities, including taxing the rich and not the poor, that he supports passing the bill, that we have bilingual constituents and that the second language of our constituents is English.

In the rollout of this program, I wonder if the member would agree that bilingualism also needs to include indigenous languages like Inuktitut and other ones for first nations and Métis so that seniors who want to access programs can understand them and make sure they have access to the important supports that this bill would provide.