House of Commons Hansard #26 of the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was drug.

Topics

Opposition Motion—Amendment to the Constitution of Canada (The Saskatchewan Act)Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

12:20 p.m.

Conservative

Warren Steinley Conservative Regina—Lewvan, SK

Madam Speaker, I want to thank the member for Elmwood—Transcona for his support on this motion today. I heard him mention Biggar. When driving into the town of Biggar, Saskatchewan, there is a sign that says, “New York is big, but this is Biggar”. The hon. member can take this back to his relatives: it is a cute little sign. I have been through Biggar many times. Once again, people are still trying to make that connection to Saskatchewan, because it is a great province to be from.

Today, we will deal with this motion and I thank my colleague for his support, but I would also ask one more thing. If he does have friends in the Senate, if he knows a few Senators, I would ask that he go and talk to those friends to make sure the Senate deals with this important motion as soon as possible. I would like to have his support with the next step, which is making sure this motion passes in the Senate, so that the taxpayers of Saskatchewan receive fairness and make sure that the corporation pays its fair share.

I would hope to have his assistance with that, as well.

Opposition Motion—Amendment to the Constitution of Canada (The Saskatchewan Act)Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

12:20 p.m.

NDP

Daniel Blaikie NDP Elmwood—Transcona, MB

Madam Speaker, I thank the member, and I am quite familiar with that phrase out of Biggar. In fact, it was on a T-shirt that I wore quite a bit growing up. I am quite familiar with what the member is talking about.

It may come as no surprise to the member that New Democrats are not the best people to solicit help from, when we talk about getting things through the other place. There are some historical reasons for that. I do know some senators, and I am certainly happy to talk to them, but I think it is outrageous that we need the approval of a group of completely unelected legislators who are accountable to no one in order to get something like this done.

Opposition Motion—Amendment to the Constitution of Canada (The Saskatchewan Act)Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

12:25 p.m.

Winnipeg North Manitoba

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons

Madam Speaker, I appreciated a number of the comments the member made, especially when asking if there was something we could learn from CP and the Constitutional change, and how the Constitution reflected an agreement that pre-existed Saskatchewan entering Confederation.

Are there things that we can learn from it? For example, we have a huge investment that came from the British Columbia NDP government toward LNG, which was supported by this national government and by huge contributions from the private sector. I am wondering if the member could provide his thoughts on that issue. Is that something he would support?

Opposition Motion—Amendment to the Constitution of Canada (The Saskatchewan Act)Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

12:25 p.m.

NDP

Daniel Blaikie NDP Elmwood—Transcona, MB

Madam Speaker, the member, of course, raises his own example. The example I had in mind was the wage subsidy. It has paid out hundreds of millions of dollars just recently, without any meaningful accountability, to companies that we have seen raise their dividend payments and reward their shareholders in all sorts of ways, and that have not been asked to pay a single dime back. I think that was a terrible example of how to manage public funds.

The NDP called for controls at the inception of that program, and we pointed to other jurisdictions that were doing it better. To me, the wage subsidy program is the best example of the government not having learned its lesson.

Opposition Motion—Amendment to the Constitution of Canada (The Saskatchewan Act)Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

12:25 p.m.

NDP

Gord Johns NDP Courtenay—Alberni, BC

Madam Speaker, I thank my colleague for his important speech. As he outlined, this is a company that had $3 billion in profits last year. It paid taxes for 100 years and now, because it sees that there is a loophole, it wants to go back and claw back $300 million. This would have a huge impact on education services and health services in the province of Nova Scotia.

Could my colleague speak about the trend we are seeing happening right now, with big corporations putting greed ahead of the public good when it comes to corporate and social responsibility, and how governments need to stand up and make sure that those corporations are paying their fair share?

Opposition Motion—Amendment to the Constitution of Canada (The Saskatchewan Act)Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

12:25 p.m.

NDP

Daniel Blaikie NDP Elmwood—Transcona, MB

Madam Speaker, I think governments have created a very permissive environment that has encouraged corporations to pursue their own interests. We see that in the corporate tax rate being slashed from 28% to 15%.

I do not think that there was ever a golden era when corporations were putting the public good ahead of their private interests, but there was a time when governments required more of them in order to occupy the positions that they occupy in terms of the power and influence that they enjoy. They were required to give more back. If they were not willing to do it in the way that they behaved, at the very least they were required to do it financially, by paying their fair share of taxes. We have really seen that decline, because we have seen governments stop requiring it of them. I think that, until governments grow a spine and start standing up to big companies and making them pay their fair share, this will continue.

Opposition Motion—Amendment to the Constitution of Canada (The Saskatchewan Act)Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

12:25 p.m.

Conservative

Michael Kram Conservative Regina—Wascana, SK

Madam Speaker, I will be splitting my time today with the hon. member for Yorkton—Melville.

There is a lot of Canadian history going on in today's debate. There is so much that I had to dig up my old university notes when preparing my speech. On that note, at this time I would like to thank my economics history 206 professor at the University of Regina, Dr. Richard Kleer, for his fascinating class way back when. If Dr. Kleer is watching, I have to say that I believe my speech today is worth at least a few bonus marks in his class.

Before I get to the Canadian Pacific Railway, I would like to talk a bit about another historic Canadian company, the Hudson's Bay Company. In the year 1670, King Charles II granted the newly formed Hudson's Bay Company a monopoly on trading posts in all lands in North America whose rivers empty into Hudson Bay, an area including parts of present-day Alberta, Saskatchewan, Ontario, Quebec and Nunavut, and all of present-day Manitoba. Once King Charles II wrote up his royal charter and handed that piece of paper over to the Hudson's Bay Company, it became illegal for anyone else to operate a trading post in the land in North America that soon became known as Rupert's Land.

This was great for business for the Hudson's Bay Company trading posts. If any other entrepreneur opened up a competing trading post, Hudson's Bay Company could simply arrest them and throw them in jail. This situation continued for 200 years, until the Hudson's Bay Company voluntarily surrendered its trading post monopoly in exchange for compensation from the government. However, the company still exists today in the form of Hudson's Bay department stores in malls all across the country.

Imagine for a minute if the board of directors of Hudson's Bay department stores woke up tomorrow morning and decided that they wanted their old monopoly back. Imagine if they went to court and tried to shut down Canadian Tire or Shoppers Drug Mart. After all, Canadian Tire and Shoppers Drug Mart are violating the royal charter that granted the trading post monopoly to the Hudson's Bay Company way back in the year 1670.

I hope everyone in this chamber can agree that this would be completely and totally ridiculous. Even if Hudson's Bay Company lawyers dusted off the original copy of the 1670 Royal Charter or the original copy of the 1870 Deed of Surrender and found one of the i's was not dotted or one of the t's was not crossed, it would still be completely and totally ridiculous to shut down every Canadian Tire and Shoppers Drug Mart. One way or another, we as lawmakers would not allow that to happen.

We have almost as ridiculous a situation developing today in my home province of Saskatchewan with the Canadian Pacific Railway, which is another Canadian company that is almost as historic as the Hudson's Bay Company. The construction of a transcontinental railway was a condition of the Province of British Columbia joining Confederation in 1871. A few years later, Parliament passed the Canadian Pacific Railway Act as a way to contract out the construction and operation of the new transcontinental railway. The terms were very generous: $25 million; 25 million acres of Crown land in western Canada, including the mineral rights; a ban on new competing railways south of the main line; and certain tax exemptions for the Canadian Pacific Railway that were to last forever.

A few years later, in 1905, when Parliament decided to pass the Saskatchewan Act to create the province of Saskatchewan, the tax exemptions granted to the Canadian Pacific Railway were included in section 24 of the act and transferred to the newly created provincial government. These terms were very generous, and rightfully so. The whole idea of building a transcontinental railway in the 1800s must have been on the same scale as NASA going to the moon in the 1900s or the prospect of sending astronauts to Mars in this century. The railway played a vital role in bringing British Columbia into Confederation and the settlement of western Canada. For its contribution, the Canadian Pacific Railway was well paid.

However, as the saying goes, all good things must come to an end, and for CP Rail, these tax exemptions did come to an end in the year 1966. That year, federal politicians, provincial politicians from Saskatchewan and executives from CP Rail sat down and came to an agreement. At that time, all parties agreed that the tax exemptions included in section 24 of the Saskatchewan Act would be discontinued in exchange for certain railway regulatory changes, and CP Rail has been paying its fair share of taxes ever since, just like everyone else.

This is where the story should have ended. After CP Rail started paying its taxes in 1966, historians should have been able to turn the page on this chapter of our history, just like historians have long since turned the page on the Hudson’s Bay Company’s trading post monopoly. Unfortunately, that is not what happened. Recently, these tax exemptions, which are technically still on the books, have become the subject of a lawsuit in my home province of Saskatchewan.

CP Rail has decided that it wants to go back to the good old days when it did not have to pay taxes. It wants the tax exemptions specified in section 24 of the Saskatchewan Act of 1905 to be reactivated and brought back to life so that the company no longer has to pay taxes moving forward. CP Rail is also claiming that it is entitled to $341 million in taxes that it has been paying over the years, when it apparently did not have to.

This lawsuit is almost as ridiculous as the Hudson’s Bay Company trying to shut down Canadian Tire and Shoppers Drug Mart for violating the trading post monopoly granted to them by King Charles II in the year 1670. The only difference in this case is that technically section 24 of the Saskatchewan Act of 1905 is still on the books, so we have not quite turned the final page on this chapter of our history.

The time has come to turn the page. While I have a great deal of respect and admiration for the contributions the Canadian Pacific Railway has made to our collective history, the time has come to treat it like any other company, and that means paying its fair share of taxes. It is finally time to repeal section 24 of the Saskatchewan Act of 1905. I will be voting in favour of the motion brought forth by my friend and colleague, the hon. member for Regina—Lewvan, and I encourage all members to do the same.

Opposition Motion—Amendment to the Constitution of Canada (The Saskatchewan Act)Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

12:35 p.m.

Winnipeg North Manitoba

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons

Madam Speaker, I hope to be able to expand upon this, but I appreciate the fact that CP did enter into an agreement back in the mid-sixties, in 1965 or 1966, as no doubt there would have been some discussions in the lead-up to it. I think it is important for us to recognize that CP as a corporation has been paying taxes. I do not know what triggered CP, whether it was a young intern or whomever, to ultimately decide this issue should be going to a court.

Is the member aware of the situation? Do we know why CP made the decision to move in the direction of going to court?

Opposition Motion—Amendment to the Constitution of Canada (The Saskatchewan Act)Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

12:35 p.m.

Conservative

Michael Kram Conservative Regina—Wascana, SK

Madam Speaker, the short answer is no. I have done some research outside of my economics history class, I have to say, and I have come up with no answer to that particular question. Some management and directors decided this would be a good idea, and CP Rail is giving it the old college try, but I do not know what motivated them to go down this path.

Opposition Motion—Amendment to the Constitution of Canada (The Saskatchewan Act)Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

12:35 p.m.

Bloc

Mario Simard Bloc Jonquière, QC

Madam Speaker, my colleague has clearly shown that it was absurd for Canadian Pacific not to pay its taxes.

What I am having difficulty understanding is the ambivalence of our Liberal colleagues. They have seemed very hesitant to support the Conservative motion right from the start of the day. Can my colleague explain why he thinks our Liberal colleagues are being so reserved?

Opposition Motion—Amendment to the Constitution of Canada (The Saskatchewan Act)Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

12:35 p.m.

Conservative

Michael Kram Conservative Regina—Wascana, SK

Madam Speaker, the question by the hon. member from the Bloc is probably best posed to the Liberals on the other side of the House. It is certainly my sincere hope that all members of the House will be supporting this motion. It is very reasonable and more than a little overdue, as I have laid out. It is my understanding that CP Rail has been paying its taxes since 1966, and it is my hope and expectation that it will be doing so moving forward.

Opposition Motion—Amendment to the Constitution of Canada (The Saskatchewan Act)Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

12:35 p.m.

NDP

Randall Garrison NDP Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC

Madam Speaker, I thank the member for Regina—Wascana for his contribution. It allowed us to remember the history of what we are talking about today. As a member from Vancouver Island, I cannot resist pointing out that we were promised train service and that train service ended on Vancouver Island almost 10 years ago. Maybe that is another thing we need to fix.

I want to return to something I raised earlier. The member for Regina—Wascana talked about corporations paying their fair share of taxes. As I said before, I am glad to hear all members agreeing on that, but does that zeal for paying their fair share of taxes extend to closing down the use of international tax havens or perhaps putting a surtax on those who have profited during the pandemic?

Opposition Motion—Amendment to the Constitution of Canada (The Saskatchewan Act)Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

12:40 p.m.

Conservative

Michael Kram Conservative Regina—Wascana, SK

Madam Speaker, I think everyone is in favour of everyone paying their fair share. It is our responsibility as parliamentarians to decide what everyone's fair share is. In terms of offshore tax havens, I think that warrants more than a little investigation from the CRA to see if some loopholes can be closed.

As for profiting during the pandemic, I think it is a good thing that some companies owning a brewery or distillery retrofitted their factories to make hand sanitizer or other PPE. I certainly do not want to disincentivize entrepreneurs who have responded to the pandemic in a positive way.

Opposition Motion—Amendment to the Constitution of Canada (The Saskatchewan Act)Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

12:40 p.m.

Conservative

Ziad Aboultaif Conservative Edmonton Manning, AB

Madam Speaker, we have heard so many questions about nothing coming from the government side on this, which confuses us. Where does the government stand on this very fair and just motion?

What did the member gather from the government's position on this important motion?

Opposition Motion—Amendment to the Constitution of Canada (The Saskatchewan Act)Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

12:40 p.m.

Conservative

Michael Kram Conservative Regina—Wascana, SK

Madam Speaker, perhaps some of the members on this side of the House should be in government someday. Then we could get this matter taken care of. My understanding is that all parties will be supporting this very reasonable motion, and I hope that applies to the Liberals as well.

Opposition Motion—Amendment to the Constitution of Canada (The Saskatchewan Act)Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

12:40 p.m.

Conservative

Cathay Wagantall Conservative Yorkton—Melville, SK

Madam Speaker, the word “unprecedented” can be overused for emphasis in this place, but I do believe that this is how we can describe the challenges we are facing as a nation at this time.

For some context, 60% of Canadians report that they are not confident in their ability to feed their families. Inflation has hit a 30-year high, with no end in sight and no resolve from the federal government to help lower it. Housing prices have skyrocketed, with a yearly housing inflation rate of 26% and a staggering 85% rise since the Prime Minister took power. Families rang in the New Year with an increase in their CPP tax, leaving them $700 poorer this year at a time when they need it the most.

Now is the time to address the affordability crisis. A concrete measure that the House can take right now would be to ensure that all Canadians are treated fairly in the taxes that they pay. That is why I am very proud today to stand alongside my Saskatchewan colleague and others to debate this issue of tax fairness.

Conservatives are asking the House to adopt a simple motion to enact the decision made by all members of Saskatchewan's legislature last November. It would amend the Saskatchewan Act to ensure that CP Rail is obligated to honour its tax burden, just like every other large corporation and small business operating in the province of Saskatchewan. This sounds simple and like something that our tax-and-spend Prime Minister would certainly be in favour of, so why is there the need today for this debate? It is because even with all the economic pain Canadians are facing, the government is continuing to divide Canadians by the region in which they live.

Our motion was brought forward late last year but was denied by the Liberals. The hard-working, innovative and resilient people of Saskatchewan are tuned in to this debate and are expecting a change of heart in the government benches to allow us to pass our motion for the benefit of the whole province.

Just last month, the member for Regina—Lewvan brought forward a straightforward motion to repeal section 24 of the Saskatchewan Act, a clause dating from 1905 that exempted CP Rail from income, sales, fuel and capital taxes associated with this historic main line. Saskatchewan believes that a mutual agreement between its government and CP Rail in 1966 put an end to this tax agreement in exchange for favourable federal legislation that improved the rail line. CP Rail disagrees and is now suing the Government of Saskatchewan in order to recover taxes it claims were levied unconstitutionally.

The decision of all elected MLAs in Saskatchewan, taken in November, was clear. On November 29 of last year, the legislature unanimously passed a motion in favour of repealing section 24 of the Saskatchewan Act. By extension, it fell on our federal Parliament to do the same. That is why the member for Regina—Lewvan put forward his motion just before the Christmas recess. Sadly, the Liberals rejected our motion, refusing to let it pass at that time.

Provinces have the right to amend respective sections of the Constitution when rights and freedoms or the welfare of their people are in play. When Alberta sought to enshrine rights and land titles to its Métis communities, that province took action to amend its constitution in 1990. In 1996, in order to codify internal procedures of its legislature, B.C. adopted the B.C. Constitution Act. Between 1876 and 1968, Quebec, Manitoba and the Atlantic provinces all abolished their legislative upper houses, requiring the blessing of our national Parliament. In multiple times in the past, Alberta and B.C. have established and then abolished multi-member electoral districts by amending their constitutions.

In all these instances, the federal House and the Senate recognized the right of these provinces to amend their constitutions and acted accordingly. On this side of the House, Conservatives will always respect the jurisdiction of the provinces, including the ability of an individual province to unilaterally amend the section of the Constitution concerning its internal governance.

In this case, it would be unfair to other businesses operating in Saskatchewan, including small businesses, if a major corporation were exempt from certain provincial taxes, giving that corporation a significant competitive advantage over those other businesses to the detriment of farmers, consumers and producers in our province. It is vital that every participant in our economy be able to compete and contribute on a level playing field.

I am honoured to represent the people of Yorkton—Melville, where gems of sustainable and innovative ideas are present in the DNA of how we mine our resources, grow food for Canadians and the world, and manufacture products that are shipped worldwide.

One example is Failure Prevention Services, whose plants and offices are in Watson, Saskatchewan. Their advanced filtration technology systems are second to none, and they have developed filters for the oil and gas industry that can be cleaned rather than thrown away. Now they are developing similar technology for train locomotives.

I also want to mention Evraz, a wonderful top-of-the-line pipeline builder of the very best pipeline in the world. They manufacture 75% of their pipeline from recycled steel. Saskatchewan has so much to be proud of, and we are contributing to the economy of this whole nation in ways that are sustainable and that we are very proud of.

My Saskatchewan colleagues and I are so proud of the work ethic and determination to succeed in small and medium-sized businesses, charitable organizations, corporate industries and the mosaic of people who live, work and play in our province.

No one in this place is attempting to diminish the vital work of CP Rail to serve our remote and rural communities and get Canada’s goods to market. We know how crucial those rail lines are to moving our wheat and the other products that we grow or manufacture in our province. Conservatives will continue to promote and protect our national railways as one of the only common threads that link our country together.

I agree with my colleague from Regina—Lewvan, who asked the question about pipelines, that there should be more, but the rail line is a system that has served us well through thick and thin since the earliest days of Confederation, and we need to sustain it. We need to do more than that. I would love to see it done properly, with another railway across our nation. We need to work to develop more ways of bringing our products across the country to our shorelines and then to the world.

When it comes to fairness and affordability for everyday Canadians, this House needs to know just how uncompromising Conservatives are, and I thank my leader and our party for this opportunity to be here today to focus on Saskatchewan and support the action that the legislature of Saskatchewan has taken for tax fairness for its citizens.

That is all that we are asking for. There is no reason that a Canadian company should enjoy a permanent exemption from certain provincial taxes and cast that tax burden onto the residents of my province of Saskatchewan. I do not understand the silence, the quietness of the sitting federal government in this regard. It talks about being here for all Canadians and having an all-of-Canada approach, and today it has an opportunity to stand up with the people of Saskatchewan, with the government and all of the players in the Government of Saskatchewan to support this motion in the House of Commons. I certainly expect that we are going to see full support across the benches in the House today.

We are simply asking for this House to honour Saskatchewan's attempts to ensure all businesses and residents are treated fairly by this corporation. I know that the people of Saskatchewan are watching today and are certainly expecting that we will do our due diligence and responsibility and pass this motion today in our House.

Opposition Motion—Amendment to the Constitution of Canada (The Saskatchewan Act)Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

12:50 p.m.

Winnipeg North Manitoba

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons

Madam Speaker, as I had indicated previously, my understanding is that the motion will pass. I am anticipating that it will pass.

At the end of the day, I was taken by the member's comments. It was in November when the Saskatchewan legislature passed a motion unanimously, and then a couple of weeks later, on the floor of the House, a UC motion was used to try to actually change the Constitution. Does the member feel that the debate we are having today was necessarily warranted? Did we really need to have a debate on an amendment to the Constitution?

Opposition Motion—Amendment to the Constitution of Canada (The Saskatchewan Act)Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

12:50 p.m.

Conservative

Cathay Wagantall Conservative Yorkton—Melville, SK

Madam Speaker, the reality is that this issue could have been dealt with much more quickly than it has been.

Am I pleased that we are discussing it in the House of Commons today? Yes; as a matter of fact, I see it as an opportunity for the Liberal Prime Minister and members of that caucus to come out and say some really good things about a province that they even today seem to spend very little time reflecting on in a positive way.

I would say to the member that today would love to hear more from him and from his colleagues in regard to supporting Saskatchewan, why they value Saskatchewan and why it is important to pass this motion.

Opposition Motion—Amendment to the Constitution of Canada (The Saskatchewan Act)Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

12:50 p.m.

Bloc

Julie Vignola Bloc Beauport—Limoilou, QC

Madam Speaker, naturally I find the idea of opening the Constitution and finally discussing the taboo of opening the Constitution extremely interesting.

It made me think. Canadian Pacific enjoyed tax breaks, free land and so forth for many decades. What about now? How many other companies have advantages that we know little or nothing about?

Does my colleague believe that it would be a good thing to study this issue so that no other taxpayer has to go through what Saskatchewanians are currently experiencing?

Opposition Motion—Amendment to the Constitution of Canada (The Saskatchewan Act)Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

12:50 p.m.

Conservative

Cathay Wagantall Conservative Yorkton—Melville, SK

Madam Speaker, my understanding is that CP has been paying its taxes and that this is a blip in the dynamic that has caused us in Saskatchewan to do what needed to be done. Unfortunately, back in the day, as one of our colleagues indicated, there used to be more of a sense of accepting responsibility. I believe this took place initially with a handshake and not with the proper paperwork being done, so it is good that this is happening today.

As far as other corporations are concerned, I come from a province and a riding that depend a great deal upon larger corporations to set the stage for a lot of the things that take place in production, mining and manufacturing. I just want to give a shout-out that I am aware of the taxes that are being paid. I am also very aware of the sense of responsibility to community and the incredible investment that those organizations are making in Saskatchewan, so I would like to see—

Opposition Motion—Amendment to the Constitution of Canada (The Saskatchewan Act)Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

12:50 p.m.

Liberal

The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès) Liberal Alexandra Mendes

Let us give time for one more question at least.

The hon. member for New Westminster—Burnaby.

Opposition Motion—Amendment to the Constitution of Canada (The Saskatchewan Act)Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

12:50 p.m.

NDP

Peter Julian NDP New Westminster—Burnaby, BC

Madam Speaker, I enjoyed the member's speech. I know her area of Yorkton—Melville well, and of course all of Saskatchewan has good people.

I have two questions for the member.

First, why, when the Harper government was in place, did the Conservatives do nothing about this? This change is long overdue. We are supporting the motion, but why did the Harper government not act?

Second, given that the Harper government put in place massive tax loopholes that have contributed to what we lose every year now, with $25 billion in taxpayer money going to overseas tax havens, does the member believe that these massive loopholes were a mistake that led to many of Canada's most profitable corporations not having to pay any tax at all?

Opposition Motion—Amendment to the Constitution of Canada (The Saskatchewan Act)Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

12:55 p.m.

Conservative

Cathay Wagantall Conservative Yorkton—Melville, SK

Madam Speaker, we have gone quite a while without having to hear the Harper word in the House of Commons. In this case, I will just say that this particular motion that has come to the House has come from the Government of Saskatchewan, which is doing its due diligence in making that change.

As far as the tax havens go, I am greatly disturbed by their existence. I believe there was a fair amount of fallout at one point with the current Liberal government when the number of connected individuals who were using tax havens was discovered. I certainly think there is a need to clean that up.

Opposition Motion—Amendment to the Constitution of Canada (The Saskatchewan Act)Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

12:55 p.m.

Winnipeg North Manitoba

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons

Madam Speaker, I want to first address the challenge put forward to me by the member for Yorkton—Melville. She wanted me to show how I can identify with the province of Saskatchewan.

I am a Prairie boy. I spent a number of years living in Saskatchewan, albeit I am a Bombers fan over a Roughriders fan. Unfortunately, I have family members who are Roughriders fans over the Bombers, which I suspect goes back to the time I spent growing up in Saskatchewan with my siblings and others.

Saskatchewan is a beautiful province. Much like with all regions of this country, I would say to my family and friends that Ottawa does care when things are happening in Saskatchewan. Whether they are constitutionally related, employment related, regarding the environment or even something such as charges on pollution, all of these things matter and they are issues we take very seriously.

The government has always been open not only to what people are saying but also to listening to what other parliamentarians have been saying. I thought that is where I would start today.

There has been reference made to this unanimous motion request put forward back in December, and I was one of the individuals who said, no, I did not think we should allow, through unanimous consent of the House of Commons, something to pass through related to a constitutional amendment.

I looked at what happened in the Saskatchewan legislature, where the issue was debated. There were comments put on the record with regard to it, and I want to share some of those comments with members today. I know some people were upset when I indicated that passing a constitutional amendment through unanimous consent without any debate whatsoever in the House of Commons was not an appropriate thing to do. That is the reason I said no back in December.

As I indicated in my remarks, I will be supporting the motion that was brought forward. Since the unanimous consent was requested back in December, I have had the opportunity to become better informed. I understand there has been outreach from MLAs in the Province of Saskatchewan to ensure and provide a sense of comfort to members on all sides of the House regarding why they put in the request.

I want to go right to the floor of the Saskatchewan legislature, where we saw a minister highlight why we are in this situation. Mr. Wyant said, “As members of this House [the Saskatchewan legislature] are likely aware, CPR is suing the Government of Saskatchewan for $341 million, claiming a broad tax exemption under section 24.” He went on to say, “As a matter of tax policy and business competitiveness, there must be a level playing field for all businesses.”

He goes on to highlight what I believe is a very important point, and this is one of the reasons I am very surprised a lawsuit would have even been launched. I do not want to get into the legal proceedings that much. The courts will do whatever the courts will ultimately do on the issue. However, Mr. Wyant continues to say:

...it’s our view that the Canadian Pacific Railway company agreed in 1966 that it would forgo the tax exemption in exchange for regulatory changes made by the federal government. The federal government upheld its end of the agreement by making those regulatory changes which provided significant benefits to the CPR. It’s now time to ensure that our Constitution reflects that reality.

He makes it very clear that during the mid-sixties there was a discussion that took place where CP, the province and the federal government, either directly or indirectly, engaged in a discussion about the constitution of Saskatchewan and the impact of the clause that we are debating today. The consensus and agreement going out of that meeting saw the residents of Saskatchewan and, in fact, all Canadians, ensure that CP would maintain payments or pay their fair share of taxes back then.

For those people who might be following the debate, I do believe it is important to recognize that, since that agreement between CP, Saskatchewan and the federal government, there has been a payment of taxes. That agreement was entered into in good faith. Earlier in the comments, I read that there is a lawsuit for $341 million, which is a significant amount of money coming from a corporation. That makes me question what caused the launch of the lawsuit.

Some may question why, in 2022, we are debating this today. Members will get a better sense of that if they look at the November 29 Hansard from the Saskatchewan legislature, where there was a resolution that was unanimously passed. I just want to pick out two things from it because it is a fairly lengthy resolution. The first of the two aspects of the resolution that I want to highlight for members is that it states:

Whereas the Canadian Pacific Railway company has paid applicable taxes to the Government of Saskatchewan since the province was established in 1905....

I do not know all the taxes that CP has been paying. Hopefully there will be a response from CP or someone else as to why it is that the court action has been taken, but it is important that we recognize, as this resolution states, that since 1905 the railway company has paid applicable taxes to the Government of Saskatchewan.

The other thing I want to highlight is where it states:

Whereas on August 29th, 1966, the then president of the Canadian Pacific Railway company, Ian D. Sinclair, advised the then federal minister of Transport, Jack Pickersgill, that the board of the Canadian Pacific Railway company had no objection to the constitutional amendments to eliminate the tax exemption....

That is why I make reference to the fact of this agreement. CP was not looking to receive benefits from the tax exemption. In fact, it goes on:

The repeal of section 24 is deemed to have been made on August 29th, 1966, and is retroactive to that date.

That is, therefore, the resolution coming from the Saskatchewan legislature. Appreciating the fact that it passed unanimously, Mr. Wotherspoon from the New Democratic Party makes reference to the Saskatchewan Act and makes it very clear in his explanation stating:

This is why as the official opposition Saskatchewan New Democrats, we’ve called for the repeal of section 24 of the Saskatchewan Act, 1905 and why we are proud to stand united as a legislature to send this motion for approval to Ottawa, the House of Commons, and the Senate.

If members are interested in the details and content of the resolution, it can be found in the Hansard of the Saskatchewan legislature of November 29. Suffice to say, it passed unanimously.

When I look at the Constitution of Canada and the constitutional debates, I do not believe we should, through unanimous consent motions, pass a constitutional amendment. I do not say that lightly because, while I like to think I am still relatively young, I have had some experience with constitutional amendments. First it was as someone sitting in front of the TV back in 1982 watching our then prime minister Pierre Elliott Trudeau sign off, along with Her Majesty the Queen, on the Constitution of Canada and bring in the Charter of Rights, which was instilled in me as a very proud moment at that relatively young age but also did a lot to bring Canadians together and instill a sense of pride. Not much longer after I had witnessed that, I was inspired to get engaged in politics in a more tangible way and had the good fortune of getting elected in 1988.

Those who are familiar with constitutional change and amendments and attempts would know that in 1988 we had the Meech Lake accord. I was a member of the Manitoba legislature when it was the only province to not sign on to the accord. Back then, because of the holdup in the Manitoba legislature, I believe the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador withdrew its original support of the Constitution. I remember the significant protests that took place both inside and outside of the legislature, and why indigenous people in particular felt empowered to a certain degree through Elijah Harper to ensure that the national and provincial governments of all political stripes understood why there was an issue with the Meech Lake accord.

If we fast-forward from that experience to the 1990s and the Charlottetown accord, I had the good fortune, or bad fortune depending on how one wants to look at it, of being around for that debate. I remember having a debate in the north end of Winnipeg with a member of Parliament who was speaking against what I was proposing. It was Bill Blaikie, the former member of Parliament for Elmwood—Transcona and the father of the current member.

In that debate I said I disagreed with Mr. Blaikie and that, in fact, the national government had a role to play in housing in Canada, because the Charlottetown accord, among other things, tried to give the direction that housing was an entirely provincial responsibility. There were a number of us, including me, who felt the federal government had a role to play with respect to national housing. I find it ironic today to hear the comments from the members of the opposition saying that we need to do something on the housing file, when the Prime Minister has clearly demonstrated a strong cabinet commitment to national housing through the national housing strategy, with hundreds of millions of dollars coming from Ottawa to support housing.

For example, even Bill C-8, legislation that we were debating, has a direct impact on housing. This is why I say that constitutional issues are important to all of us.

However, sometimes constitutional changes can be all-encompassing. They can consume a great deal of time and effort and they are very difficult to achieve, which is why, when I look at governments from the past since the Charlottetown Accord, I do not believe that the mood of Canadians is to see constitutional change at this time. I do not believe that Canadians want us to be focusing on constitutional changes at this time.

That said, as has been pointed out, there are different ways in which a constitution can be changed, and the type of change we are talking about today is very different from what we have talked about in the past. Members of the Liberal caucus understand and appreciate that the Saskatchewan legislature has passed a unanimous resolution. We understand why the timing of it is so critically important today, even though it was enacted over 100 years ago in an agreement that I will provide some comment on shortly. However, the point is that as things take place in Saskatchewan, we understand the need for the federal government to respond, and today is a good example.

Someone mentioned earlier today that this is an opposition motion. Well, just because it is an opposition member's motion does not necessarily mean that it does not merit passage in the House of Commons or support from the government. That is why the parliamentary secretary who spoke prior to me indicated that the government would in fact be supporting the motion. We recognize that in the last election, as in the previous election, Canadians said they want Parliament and parliamentarians to work together, and where we can, we do. We do work together when there is that higher sense of co-operation, and we are seeing that with respect to this motion.

On other issues related to this motion, there is the issue of tax fairness. This issue was brought up consistently by my New Democratic friends in particular, to try to give the false impression that members of the Liberal government do not support tax fairness. That is so wrong. One of our very first actions in government was the Prime Minister's commitment to tax fairness. He brought in legislation to put a tax on Canada's 1% wealthiest. Ironically, my New Democratic friends voted against it. We have had not one but two budgets in which hundreds of millions of dollars were allocated to try to ensure that those who are avoiding paying taxes, including big business, are held to account. We are investing more in Revenue Canada. I do not need to be told that my constituents want and demand tax fairness. We as a government, through our cabinet and with the support of the Liberal members of caucus, and I suspect even at times the support of opposition members, have brought in initiatives to ensure that there is a higher sense of tax fairness in Canada today.

Opposition Motion—Amendment to the Constitution of Canada (The Saskatchewan Act)Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

1:15 p.m.

Conservative

Cathay Wagantall Conservative Yorkton—Melville, SK

Madam Speaker, I would love to dig back on the Riders and the Bombers, but that is not the focus of my question.

When this unanimous-consent motion was brought to the House by the member for Regina—Wascana, he indicated that it was after discussion with the other parties. Now, there was discussion in the House last week when that term was not used and the individual simply said “I hope that you will find unanimous consent”, but discussions were had, I know.

My question to the member is this: If he felt that there needed to be debate, and the Minister of Finance also gave us an answer on why the Liberals said no, why did they not just have that as part of their discussion and not have the fanfare in the House of Commons when they came out against the motion?