Debates of May 30th, 2022

Department of Fisheries and Oceans—Main Estimates 2022-23

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Madam Chair, I would like to mention the fish harvester benefit that was made available by our government when there were concerns due to COVID that the fishers may not be able to go out and earn their living on the oceans. Close to $150 million was paid out to fish harvesters who were self-employed and did not have access to other benefits. In a situation like that, we stood up a program very quickly, and I know that fish harvesters appreciated that. When there are reductions in stock and—

[The Deputy Chair, NDP, Carol Hughes]

The hon. member for Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d'Orléans—Charlevoix.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Madam Chair, at a parliamentary committee at the National Assembly of Quebec, Quebec's department of agriculture, fisheries and food revealed that DFO and its minister did not notify the Quebec government before suspending the mackerel and herring fishery, even though they are supposed to. We in Quebec would like to know why.

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Madam Chair, we discussed this at the Atlantic Mackerel Advisory Committee with all the partners involved in the file.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Madam Chair, we will stick to small fish. It will do me good to speak about something other than capelin, but I will come back to that.

What statistics did the department use to make its decision to suspend mackerel and herring fishing? Does the department have data from fishers outside Quebec? The fishers in the pelagic fishery in Gaspé say they are pretty much the only ones to report their catches. What does the minister think of the fishers' statement?

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Madam Chair, I would like to say that I understand just how difficult the fishers' job is. I worked outdoors as a tree planter year after year, come rain or come snow. I understand very well just how difficult the work is, and I always think of those who do this incredibly difficult but important work.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Madam Chair, I will repeat my question. What data did the DFO use to make this decision? Did they use the figures provided by fishers in the Gaspé pelagic fishery, who stated that they are the only ones to report their catches? Did the department use those figures when it decided to close the fishery this year?

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Madam Chair, the decision was based on research conducted by the department.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Madam Chair, what are the minister's thoughts on the public statement by her colleague, the Minister of National Revenue and member for Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine, who, on April 12, told a local Gaspé media outlet I will not name that she condemned the closure, which she even called unacceptable?

Who is right: the minister or her colleague from Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine?

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Madam Chair, I just want to say I too feel that disappointment when I have to close a fishery, but it is for the long-term good of fishers, communities and fish stocks.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Madam Chair, does Fisheries and Oceans Canada's science branch include sociologists and economists who participate in the decision-making process?

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Madam Chair, yes, several experts discussed these decisions.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Madam Chair, are they sociologists, economists or essentially scientists who are more specialized in biodiversity?

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Madam Chair, there is a wide range of experts and it depends on the situation, the fish stocks and what data needs to be collected.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Madam Chair, in closing on this subject, what can the fishers hope for as they listen to us today from the Gaspé knowing they have no more work? Given that the fishers who depend on the herring and mackerel fisheries will have nothing to eat tomorrow, what can they hope for from the minister and her department as we speak in the House right now?

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Madam Chair, we have Service Canada programs and the provinces have programs to help people who are facing hardship. We will always try to create opportunities for fishers, but we cannot do that—

[The Deputy Chair, NDP, Carol Hughes]

The hon. member.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Madam Chair, what role does local knowledge play in the decisions made by Fisheries and Oceans Canada? Is there a place in all this for the local people, the fishers, their views and their observations? They are the ones out there doing the work.

What role does the minister think this local knowledge plays?

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Madam Chair, we have advisory committees for each fishery, and we always listen to fishers and people who have information about the fisheries.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Madam Chair, my last question has to do with capelin.

I had to intervene seven times. I had to reach out seven times to make the department listen to two small-scale capelin weir fishers and understand that they were not negatively affecting the resource, even though the fishers themselves had sent numerous letters and emails without ever receiving a response.

Their MP had to intervene seven times to get the suspension lifted at the end of the month.

Can the minister explain why the department is not doing more to listen to people on the ground when it matters?

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Madam Chair, I am happy to say we heard the member of Parliament and we took action. We had a discussion with all of the stakeholders on the capelin fishery. That fishery started five days ahead of planned, and we are now considering the April 1 opening date that the member and the two weir fishers have requested. I think the department and I have been very responsive, and I am happy to have done that.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Madam Chair, I cannot help but feel deeply concerned about the lack of vision and new commitments in this year's budget to protect the marine ecosystems and to support communities that rely on our fishing industry. We need real leadership and bold action, and I cannot see that in this year's budget.

I would like to use my time today to ask the minister questions. Wild Pacific salmon are a fundamental part of our ecosystems on the west coast. Wild salmon populations have declined by 70% over the last century in B.C. Successive Liberal and Conservative governments have failed this vital species.

It has been over a year since the government announced its Pacific salmon strategy initiative. Beyond long-term fishing closures, the government has been silent about how it is helping the salmon populations. Wild Pacific salmon are facing a crisis. Can the minister confirm how much of the $35 million budgeted last year for the PSSI was spent?

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Minister of Fisheries]

Madam Chair, we actually have $176.7 million this year for the Pacific salmon strategy initiative, to do the very important work of restoration, conservation and stewardship, and harvest transformation, as well as standing up some organizations that will focus on wild Pacific salmon on the coast.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Madam Chair, why should Canadians be confident that this funding will be spent if fundamental parts of the program still have not been established after an entire year of this program being implemented?

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Madam Chair, I would say that I am as anxious as the member is that we take action to restore wild Pacific salmon. I will say that there are some—