Debates of Oct. 17th, 2023

Opposition Motion—Fiscal Plan

[Leah Taylor Roy, Liberal, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the member opposite for making the points I made earlier, using the lines they have developed and must think resonate with Canadians in his question. He has asked a question that in no way helps us focus on the problems facing us today.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Mr. Speaker, at the end of her speech, my colleague mentioned how important it is to support people. We can all agree on the need for better control of the public purse, but we have to recognize that inflation affects some people more than others.

I am reaching out to my colleague. Tomorrow, there will be an important vote on Bill C-319, which would increase old age security for every senior 65 and older. Groups in Quebec have been asking for this. I visited them all this summer. I keep getting letters of support for this bill. Tomorrow, my colleague will have an opportunity. I do not want to hear any administrative arguments worthy of a banana republic. Last time, I heard someone argue that OAS could not be increased for everyone at age 65, that it was impossible because it had just been increased for people 75 and older, so technically, there would be no way to increase it for people starting at age 65. What kind of nonsense is that? OAS is available to every senior starting at age 65.

I hope my colleague will seize that opportunity tomorrow and vote for the bill.

[Leah Taylor Roy, Liberal, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

Mr. Speaker, it is very important to support our seniors. I agree wholeheartedly.

I disagree with the opposition that we are causing inflation through government spending. These are investments in people. At the same time, we do need to watch government spending right now, because we have a AAA credit rating and the cost of debt has gone up. We need to be careful with spending, and we are doing that. We are being fiscally responsible.

While I agree with the member opposite, I am not sure this is the time to put in place that policy given the other policy we are putting in place to support seniors and all people. We are trying to be very selective and targeted with our supports at this time.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I enjoy serving with my colleague on the Standing Committee on Agriculture and Agri-Food.

I would agree with her that the Conservatives have concocted a false narrative about the real causes of inflation. They are willfully ignoring what all of the evidence can show anyone who takes the time to look. The unfortunate thing is that the Liberals have been asleep at the switch and have allowed that false narrative to take root.

We have seen 22 months of rising food inflation and people are making difficult choices at the grocery store, yet the minister responsible for that file is only just now giving a stern talking to to grocery CEOs. Canadians are suffering and watching massive corporate profits, and what are those same corporations doing? They are laying off workers and using all of that profit to do stock buybacks and massive dividend payouts, which are often going to foreign investors and not benefiting people in Canada. We have all of this stuff happening.

Does my hon. friend across the way believe her government should be doing more, and what should those steps be? We have an incredible amount of wealth being generated in Canada, but it is going to fewer and fewer people. That is what needs to change for people to have confidence in the economy again.

[Leah Taylor Roy, Liberal, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

Mr. Speaker, corporate profits have been rising, and I am concerned about the level of competition. I am concerned about what is happening in Canada on that front. Our government is moving forward to address competition, increase competition in Canada and meet with these corporations. As I think the member opposite knows, there has been an excess profits tax put on banks and insurance companies, and it is certainly something we would consider doing in the future. However, we are trying to work jointly with these corporations, as we know that is the first and best way to do that.

I did want to mention one more thing. A lot of the problem with capitalism right now I put on Milton Friedman. Milton Friedman's Capitalism and Freedom book, which is the bible of the Leader of the Opposition, is the problem that caused a lot of what is happening. Businesses have stopped caring about other stakeholders and are only focusing on shareholder value.

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

Mr. Speaker, off the top, I note that I will be splitting my time with my colleague, the member for Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier.

The policies and decisions of government have real-life impacts on Canadians. Unfortunately, in the case of the NDP-Liberal coalition, that impact has been truly devastating. After eight years of the Liberal government, Canadians are now faced with a cost of living crisis that is a direct result of failed policies.

There are moms and dads across this country who, despite going to work every day to earn a paycheque, are still struggling to put gas in their tanks, put food on the table and keep their family housed. Seniors on a fixed income are being forced to choose between groceries or keeping warm during the winter. With housing costs having more than doubled under the government, more and more Canadians are giving up on the dream of home ownership. That is not okay, but that is the record of the Prime Minister and his government, and the out-of-touch NDP-Liberal government has yet to offer Canadians hope that there is a plan to bring down sky-high costs and mounting interest rates.

In fact, not only is this NDP-Liberal coalition failing to bring down inflation and interest rates, but it is actively making it worse, and its high-tax agenda is only further eating away at the paycheques of Canadians. Life is too expensive, and Canadians have never paid so much to bring home so little. This is a difficult time for many Canadians and they simply cannot afford the NDP-Liberal government.

The Prime Minister has added more to the national debt than all previous prime ministers combined, and that half a trillion dollars of inflationary deficits has directly led to record inflation highs and repeated hikes to the interest rate. Instead of acknowledging and reversing course, the Prime Minister and his government continue to pour fuel on the inflationary fire at every turn they take. Expert after expert has warned that the Liberal government's spending is driving up the cost of inflation. Even Liberals have told the government that its deficit spending is driving up inflation.

We know that Tiff Macklem, the Governor of the Bank of Canada, has said that if governments increase their spending, it makes it more difficult to get inflation on track. Dispelling the often-heard Liberal claim that inflation is a global problem and not a result of the government's own decisions, he has also said that “inflation in Canada increasingly reflects what’s happening in Canada.” We know Mark Carney, the former governor of the Bank of Canada, also said that “inflation is principally a domestic story”. Even former finance minister Bill Morneau has now admitted that his Liberal government put more money into the economy than it needed to.

The inflationary results are crushing. To try to get inflation under control, the Bank of Canada has been forced to increase interest rates 10 times in just 19 months. More than half of Canadians are said to be within $200 of not being able to pay their bills. Half of Canadians are already saying that their mortgages are unaffordable, and Canadians already have the highest household debt in the G7. Also, the International Monetary Fund has said that Canada's housing market is the most at risk of any developed country.

Behind those statistics and troubling findings, there are real Canadians who are trying and who are barely hanging on. Canadian families are set back further and further in their personal finances every time the Bank of Canada raises interest rates. There are families whose dollars are not going nearly as far as they once were and who are desperate for the cost of living crisis in this country to come to an end.

They remember when the Prime Minister told them during the pandemic that the government would take on debt so they would not have to, but there is no comfort in that. It is taxpayers, not the Prime Minister, who took on that debt, and it is that debt that is contributing to high inflation and interest rates.

I have been listening to this debate, so I know that some members across the way will try to justify all of their deficit spending by telling us that it was a result of emergency supports to Canadians and businesses. However, in a 2022 report, the Parliamentary Budget Officer has already exposed the fallacy in that argument. That report confirmed that over $200 billion of new spending introduced by the Liberal government during the pandemic had nothing to do with its COVID response. In fact, I will remind those same members that their dangerous and reckless deficit spending habit began long before the pandemic. In 2015, the Liberal government promised Canadians that there would be a tiny, temporary $10-billion deficit. It immediately broke that promise to Canadians, and after that, it has been broken promise after broken promise. The most honest thing the Prime Minister told Canadians was that he does not think about monetary policy.

Perhaps the finance minister might think about monetary policy herself, but she has failed to take the fiscal steps necessary to put the country’s finances on solid footing. She told Canadians that the country’s debt-to-GDP ratio was her fiscal anchor, that she was committed to ensuring that it continue to be reduced, and that it was a line she would not cross. Then, in budget 2023, she crossed that line. Ahead of that budget, she also acknowledged that bringing down inflation and interest rates was a priority for Canadians and that it was her goal to not pour fuel on the inflationary fire. Then, she introduced $60 billion in new spending, adding fuel to that inflationary fire. Not to be forgotten is that in budget 2023, she also abandoned the government’s path to balanced budgets that she had projected for 2027 just months earlier.

Deficit spending drives up inflation and the costs of goods that Canadians are buying, but let us not forget that Canadians are being squeezed from all sides because of the NDP-Liberal government. The money to pay for its spending has to come from somewhere. Not only has the government printed mountains of cash to pay for its spending, but it has also hiked taxes on Canadians. The increased federal tax burden leaves Canadians with fewer dollars in their pockets to spend on their own families' priorities. Payroll taxes have gone up, directly eating into the paycheques of working Canadians. The government's failed carbon tax is adding to the cost of everything, punishing Canadians for basic necessities like gas, groceries and home heating. Of course, now it has added a second carbon tax that will cost Canadians even more, and the plan is to keep increasing those taxes.

Canadians need a break. Today’s Conservative motion calling on the government to introduce a fiscal plan that includes a pathway to balanced budgets before the Bank of Canada’s next policy interest rate decision is, I believe, perfectly reasonable and is desperately needed by all Canadians, especially those who are barely hanging on. Balancing the budget to keep inflation and interest rates low is common sense, and the NDP-Liberal coalition needs to get its spending under control before it is too late. It is time we restored hope to Canadians.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, I wonder whether the member could provide some clarity to Canadians. When the Conservatives talk about austerity and cutbacks, one of the issues they like to bring up in the House is that of housing. As a government, we are investing literally hundreds of millions of dollars in housing. In fact, we have Bill C-56 before the House now, which would allow for literally hundreds of thousands of new purpose-built rentals to enter Canadian markets over the coming years. On the one hand they say that we should not spend money, and on the other hand they say that we need to do something about the housing crisis.

Not only are we spending money, but we are also working with other levels of government. Does the member believe that the federal government should be spending money to ensure there is housing for Canadians into the future, or does she oppose that expenditure too?

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

Mr. Speaker, I oppose the government's taxing Canadians literally to death, and that is what the government is doing. The member across the way is very proud to be doing it. I totally support cutting the carbon tax, not just carbon tax 1.0 but also carbon tax 2.0. I have seen the bills of farmers for tens of thousands of dollars, and they do not get a rebate for that.

It would be great if the government, when it spends money, actually had results by which to measure its success. We see CMHC taking bonuses like it is nobody's business, but where are the houses being built? They are not.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I hear the Conservatives' concern. I agree that we need firm control of our public finances. Obviously, predictability is a must.

However, we also need to recognize that some people require extra support because of inflation. Apart from the carbon tax, what seniors want, especially those who are affected by inflation, is a 10% increase in old age security benefits for all seniors starting at age 65. The Conservative critic for seniors said it was unfair not to provide the 10% increase to all seniors at age 65.

I am reaching out to my colleague and urging her to take the first step and provide a little extra help to seniors in need. I am asking her to vote for Bill C‑319 tomorrow.

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

Mr. Speaker, my colleague wanted to dismiss the carbon tax. In my province, we can see the federal carbon tax written on our electricity bills and gas bills. To say that it may not be affecting our constituents, Canadians, I do not believe is true. I believe we need to axe the carbon tax because in a riding like mine, it is very common for seniors and students to have to drive half an hour, 45 minutes or even an hour to get to a pharmacy, a doctor or a grocery store. I absolutely think it is important that we have supports for the vulnerable, but we also have to recognize the tax hikes the government has implemented.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I note that the motion from the Conservatives talks about fiscal discipline, and Conservative fiscal discipline is an oxymoron. We lived through nine years of the dismal Harper regime. One thing that characterized that was absolutely appalling financial decisions. Members will recall the $116 billion that Harper showered on Canada's big banks to maintain profits, taking money out of the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation that should have gone to affordable housing. That helped contribute, thanks to the Conservatives, to the housing crisis that we are seeing today.

The Conservatives also put in place the Harper treaties. Notoriously, the Parliamentary Budget Officer has said that these handouts to billionaires and profitable corporations cost over $30 billion a year, thanks to Mr. Harper and the Harper regime. However, the Conservatives used fiscal discipline all right; they cut back on veterans services and forced seniors to work years longer.

My question is very simple: What are they going to do now? Are they going to end the dental care for seniors that the NDP is bringing in at the end of this year?

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

Mr. Speaker, I am not sure whether the member did not hear me, but I am for cutting taxes for Canadians so they have more of their own money in their own pockets to spend on their own families.

Why is it for the government to tell families how and where to spend their money?

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Mr. Speaker, before I begin my remarks, I want to turn my attention to the people of Gaza and Israel. I think we have to set both organizations aside and focus on the people themselves. My thoughts are with them.

I want to thank my colleague from Battlefords—Lloydminster, who gave an excellent speech.

I rise this afternoon to speak to an official opposition motion. I believe it is the role of the official opposition to call on the government to be more diligent and responsible and to deliver concrete results for Canadians. I will quote the different parts of the motion because that is what we are debating, and I think people who are watching at home on the House of Commons network deserve to know what we are talking about.

(i) after eight years of this Liberal government, this prime minister has added more to the national debt than all previous prime minister's combined,

(ii) a half-trillion dollars of inflationary deficits has directly led to 40-year inflation highs,

(iii) prior to budget 2023, the Minister of Finance said, “What Canadians want right now is for inflation to come down and for interest rates to fall […]

If I may say so, that is not what is happening right now.

…and that is one of our primary goals in this year's budget: not to pour fuel on the fire of inflation,” and then proceed to usher in $60 billion in new spending,

(iv) in order to combat inflation, the Bank of Canada has been forced to increase interest rates 10 times in just 19 months,

There is a problem somewhere, but the Liberals do not seem to want to acknowledge it.

(v) interest rate increases have increased mortgage payments, and since this prime minister took office, monthly mortgage payments have increased 150% and now cost $3,500 on a typical family home...

Then it mentions the Liberal-NDP government, because it is important to understand that this is a minority government and that, if this government is kept in power, it is because there is a coalition. The NDP and the Liberal Party are committed to keeping this government in office, despite the fact that it is not delivering results and Canadians are paying the price. Therefore:

(vi) the Liberal-NDP government must exercise fiscal discipline, end their inflation driving deficits so that interest rates can be lowered,

in order to—

[An hon. member]

Oh, oh!

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Mr. Speaker, may I have some quiet?

[The Deputy Speaker, Conservative, Chris d'Entremont]

Let us take a moment to make sure everyone is listening.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order. I just wanted to tell my friend that he should be saying, according to the Conservatives, “the Liberal-Bloc government”. I just wanted to correct him.

[The Deputy Speaker, Conservative, Chris d'Entremont]

That is not really a point of order, but more a matter of debate.

The hon. member for Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my NDP colleague for his intervention.

I will continue to read from the written motion, which is an official House of Commons document. If my colleague would like to have the full version, he can ask the table clerks, who are very helpful.

. . . inflation driving deficits so that interest rates can be lowered, in order to avoid a mortgage default crisis, as warned by the International Monetary Fund, and to ensure Canadians do not lose their homes, the House call on the government to introduce a fiscal plan that includes a pathway back to balanced budgets, in order to decrease inflation and interest rates, and to introduce this in the House of Commons prior to the Bank of Canada’s next policy interest rate decision on October 25, 2023.

Yes, the timeline is short, but this government has been in power for eight years. I hope the government members see things the way we do. We are back in the House after a week in our ridings. I have to say that everyone I met in Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier told me that they are struggling to balance their budgets, that they do not know how they are going to put food on the table and heat their homes properly. Unfortunately, in Canada, and particularly in Quebec, winter is pretty harsh. We have to heat our homes, we have to eat and, yes, we have to put gas in the car. My riding covers a low-density area, which means that people need a vehicle. There is no public transit. Unfortunately, that is the reality. We cannot bury our heads in the sand. We cannot ignore the facts. That is a reality, and we have to take it into account.

The Prime Minister stated, with a completely straight face, that budgets balance themselves. I am a father, and there are probably many parents here who have responsibilities and have to manage a budget. I have some news for the Prime Minister. I do not know whether budgets balance themselves in his ivory tower, but down here on earth, on the ground, in our homes, we have to balance our budgets. If not, we will be headed for bankruptcy, so we need to be responsible.

What is worse, at a certain point, the Liberals also said that it was time to borrow money because rates were low and they would not go up. We can see that today's reality is drastically different. Yesterday, I met with representatives of the Quebec Professional Association of Real Estate Brokers. They travelled here to Ottawa, and I met with them. I think it is important that members of Parliament meet with people to find out what is happening on the ground. I think that the government members should adopt such a practice. According to what the association representatives told me, we are going to hit a wall. It will not be long until the banks will have to start collecting house keys because people cannot pay their mortgages. That is a reality.

Today I met representatives from Pets Canada, a network of manufacturers, retailers and pet enthusiasts. Many of us have pets like cats and dogs. These pets are part of our families. Customers who buy dog or cat food are worried, because they will have to forgo buying food for their pets so that they themselves can survive. We are in Canada in 2023. I think that is important.

I will read other quotes from the Prime Minister, just for the fun of it.

“You'll forgive me if I don't think about monetary policy.” That was from August 19, 2021.

Here is another one: “We took on debt so Canadians wouldn't have to.”

However, as my colleague mentioned, it is taxpayers' money we are talking about. Governments do not make money, they simply administer the taxes collected from Canadian taxpayers.

Here is another quote from the Prime Minister, this one from 2015: “We're proposing a strong and real plan, one that invests in the middle class, so we can grow the economy, not from the top down...but from the heart outwards. That's what Canada has always done well”.

Now I want to talk about the Prime Minister's broken promises. This Prime Minister said the government would run a small deficit in 2015, tiny, temporary, no more than $10 billion. That was a broken promise. Then he said it would never go over $30 billion. Another broken promise. The Prime Minister said he would return to balanced budgets in 2019 and that this commitment was set in stone. What does he take us for? Once again, another broken promise.

As I mentioned, after eight years, the Prime Minister has added more to the debt than all of our country's prime ministers combined. This is serious. During question period yesterday, the Deputy Prime Minister again stated that Canada has the lowest deficit and the lowest debt-to-GDP ratio. I would like to ask the Deputy Prime Minister to go for a walk in the streets with me to talk to people. What will they tell her? They will tell her they are struggling to get by. There needs to be an action plan, and soon, to get the budget back into balance. It is about being responsible.

Now, on the other side of the House, they do not understand that. It is the job of the official opposition to force them to do their job and do it as quickly as possible, because it has been eight years. I hope they are not just waking up today because of the motion we moved. I hope they woke up several months ago and are working on finding a solution to balance the budget as quickly as possible.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Rural Economic Development and Minister responsible for the Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency]

Madam Speaker, I thank my colleague for that passionate speech. I know he is a hard-working member of his party. We appreciate his work and his suggestions.

I would like to ask him a question. Does he agree that there are several ways to pay off our debts? We can pay off our debts if we grow our country's revenue. Does that not help pay our debt?

If the answer is yes, and I expect it will be, why did he and his party vote against Bill C‑49 today? We asked for changes to the Atlantic accord to open up a market in offshore wind energy with incredible global potential for Canada, and especially for Atlantic Canada.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Madam Speaker, I am always happy to hear from my colleague from Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, with whom I enjoy spending time on Parliament Hill. He is a passionate man. We are hearing it less today because his voice will not let him be as passionate, but we can feel the underlying passion in the the depth of his voice.

My colleague gave me the answer in his question. There are many ways to get results, and I think that the method proposed by the government today is not effective. We saw that in the past.

Yes, we believe in prosperity, but we simply want action and an effective and prosperous plan.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Madam Speaker, I thank my colleague from Portneuf—Jacques‑Cartier. I have the pleasure of talking to him regularly in a relatively constructive way.

I am wondering about the Conservative narrative. They are claiming to have a magic wand and, once they are in power, they will be able to snap their fingers and build housing and balance the budget without any austerity measures.

On the one hand, we have a Prime Minister with outrageous spending habits and no budget plan. On the other, we have an offer to cut everything and build it all back up again without any impact on the support offered to our constituents.

I would like to hear what my colleague has to say about supporting seniors. I think that seniors are the ones who are being hit hardest by inflation, as they were by the pandemic, yet the government is doing practically nothing to help them.

Will the hon. member support my colleague's bill with that magic wand?

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Madam Speaker, I salute my colleague, who represents the riding east of mine. My riding covers a very large territory. It is always a pleasure to collaborate with her, and I appreciate the respect she shows me. I can tell her that it is mutual, and I will always have a great deal of respect for her.

Now, I want to make it clear that we are prepared to help people who are in need. During the pandemic, this government sent money to various groups across Canada that it could not get back. We were there from the start during the pandemic to help these people. We we always be there.

As for the magic wand, we do not claim to be magicians, unlike the Liberals. We will work responsibly and we will help people who are truly in need, but only them.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Madam Speaker, I appreciate my colleague, but I know that during the Harper years, the Conservatives brought in a system of tax havens that now cost us $30 billion a year, according to the Office of the Parliamentary Budget Officer.

My question is simple. How can we believe the Conservatives when their approach of imposing fiscal discipline was such a dismal failure in the past?

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Madam Speaker, the context is very different. It is now 2023, and we have to make decisions based on our current reality. There were constraining factors in the past. I think we can be proud of what the Conservative government did when it was in power.