Debates of Nov. 6th, 2023

Housing

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Mr. Speaker, for three decades, Liberals and Conservatives relied on the private market, and now the average rent for a one-bedroom is $2,500 a month. The government's own housing advocate is calling for more community housing that fits people's budgets, and the Bank of Canada says that investing in social housing would not be inflationary.

The Conservative leader is calling investment in social housing a “Soviet-style takeover”. He is in it for wealthy investors.

The Liberals are failing Canadians. Will the Prime Minister stop siding with Conservatives and commit to doubling Canada's social housing stock?

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Minister of Housing]

Mr. Speaker, I agree wholeheartedly with my colleague about the Conservative leader's rhetoric about “Soviet-style” housing to describe co-operatives. It mirrors the same approach he took over the course of the summer when he labelled a Niagara woman's home a “shack”. Dismissing the living quarters of ordinary Canadians is entirely inappropriate.

I further agree with the NDP member that we need to continue to make the kinds of investments that will build more social housing for low-income families. We got back into this game with the national housing strategy after 30 years of absence. We are going to continue to build more homes so that everyone can afford a roof over their head.

Innovation, Science and Industry

[Daniel Blaikie, NDP, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Mr. Speaker, people in Newfoundland and Labrador could certainly use some help when it comes to their costs, with 77% saying that they are living paycheque to paycheque, but we continue to get answers that are not a commitment to doubling that social housing stock or to recapitalizing funds that the government has already created to build social housing.

Even when it does not cost money, the government will not lift a finger. We stood by as we watched the Competition Bureau fight tooth and nail against the Rogers-Shaw merger. The government turned around and approved it. It now has a chance to support our initiative to strengthen the Competition Act. Will it do it?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Minister of Innovation]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member and members of the House will have an opportunity to do something for Canadians. I have asked the Leader of the Opposition to do one thing for Canadians, which is something that he does not do very often, but that one thing is to vote for Bill C-56. Canadians will be happy to learn that Bill C-56 would reform competition by giving more power to the competition commissioner, removing the mergers that are harmful to competition and removing the clauses that are hurting competition.

We want more competition and lower prices in this country.

Carbon Pricing

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, the NDP voted 16 times in favour of the carbon tax. Its leader has supported quadrupling the tax on the home heating of every single Canadian, but after working-class union households have been abandoning his party for the Conservatives in droves, he has now flip-flopped. That has involved the courage of admitting that he was wrong.

Will the Prime Minister show the same courage and admit that he, just like the NDP leader, is dead wrong and vote for our common-sense motion to keep the heat on and take the tax off?

[Seamus O'Regan, Liberal, Minister of Labour and Seniors]

Mr. Speaker, I find it helpful to deal with the people who are closest to the problem. In Atlantic Canada, the Ecology Action Centre is based in Halifax, and it released a statement that I think is prescient to the debate going on here. It says:

Energy poverty and climate change represent a direct threat to working-class people in Nova Scotia. As a society, we must work together to ensure households with low incomes can transition away from expensive fossil fuels to technologies like heat pumps that are cheaper, better for our health and afford us the comforts associated with heating and cooling. Policy-makers are finally rising to meet the challenge.

[Andrew Scheer, Conservative, Regina—Qu'Appelle, SK]

Mr. Speaker, after eight years, the Prime Minister is just not worth the cost. Now he wants to quadruple the tax on home heating, gas and groceries. He has now decided to pause the pain for the 3% of families in the areas he is plummeting in the polls and his MPs are revolting.

The Liberal rural economic development minister said that, if people in the Prairies wanted a break from the carbon tax exemption, they should have elected more Liberal MPs. The people in Sudbury did elect a Liberal. I visited there last week and people there want to know why their MP has been unable to get them a pause on the pain.

I have a simple question for the Prime Minister: Will he allow a free vote for the member for Sudbury on our motion to take the tax off and keep the heat on?

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, Minister of Energy and Natural Resources]

Mr. Speaker, I think it is important to Canadians that people are serious in bringing forward policy prescriptions, not simply tag lines.

We have put into place measures that will address a critical affordability issue. Home heating oil is two to four times as expensive as natural gas. It went up 75% during 2022.

There is an opportunity to reduce the energy cost for people on an ongoing basis, all while addressing the issue of climate change, something that the Leader of the Opposition clearly does not believe in. It is something that is important for Canada. It is important for the 270,000 Ontario homes that currently heat with heating oil.

[Andrew Scheer, Conservative, Regina—Qu'Appelle, SK]

Mr. Speaker, they are in complete carbon tax chaos over there. Their pause on the pain does not apply to 97% of Canadians, and it punishes those who use cleaner Canadian natural gas or propane to heat their homes. What did the Liberal rural affairs minister have to say? She said that, if people in other areas want the pause too, they should elect Liberals. The people in North Bay did elect a Liberal MP.

Again, I ask this of the Prime Minister: Will he allow a free vote so the member for North Bay can vote on our motion to take the tax off and keep the heat on?

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Environment and Climate Change and to the Minister of Sport and Physical Activity]

Mr. Speaker, as I said last week, it would be great if, in the House, we could have debates about how we fight climate change, not whether we fight climate change, because in 2023 it is really not an option. It is an existential threat, and we are living in a climate emergency.

Canadians know how important it is to fight climate change, and they know that on this point, the Conservatives have absolutely no plan. When one does not have a plan for the environment, one does not have a plan for the economy. Conservatives continue to be risky and irresponsible, and they are certainly not worth that risk.

[Melissa Lantsman, Conservative, Thornhill, ON]

Mr. Speaker, after eight years of the Liberal-NDP government, the Prime Minister's carbon tax is making it impossible for Canadians to heat their homes this winter. That is especially true right here in soon-to-be-frigid Ottawa. There are 12 Liberal MPs here, a cabinet minister, three privy councillors and four parliamentary secretaries, but, according to the minister from Newfoundland, all of these MPs were not effective enough to get their communities a pause on the pain of the carbon tax.

Will Liberals make things right and stand with us today to axe the tax, or will they vote again with the Prime Minister and leave Ottawa residents in the cold?

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Environment and Climate Change and to the Minister of Sport and Physical Activity]

Mr. Speaker, there was a time when Canadian Progressive Conservative voters could rely on members of the Conservative caucus for leadership on fighting climate change. In fact, the member for Wellington—Halton Hills staked his entire Conservative leadership campaign on it. He said, “The right way to do it is to price carbon through a revenue-neutral carbon tax”. He staked his entire Conservative leadership campaign on that. Sadly, he lost.

However, I agree with him saying, “If we don’t have a [plan] to reduce emissions, we cannot win the next election.” That was true in 2019. It was true in 2021, and it is true today.

[Melissa Lantsman, Conservative, Thornhill, ON]

Mr. Speaker, if the Prime Minister can pause the pain for some Canadians, then surely he can do it for all Canadians. The Liberal MPs should be demanding that, but they are missing in action, just like the MIA Liberals from the GTA such as that member. Their communities want relief from this costly coalition, but they have been hiding for a week, so I will give them the chance to show up now.

Will the Prime Minister allow the members whose phone numbers start with 905 a free vote to take the tax off so their communities can keep the heat on?

[Karina Gould, Liberal, Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, what my hon. colleagues continue to forget is that this policy applies right across the country. Whether people are in the GTA, northern Ontario, Saskatchewan, Manitoba or anywhere else in this country, the price on pollution has been removed for those who use home heating oil.

It would be good if the Conservatives actually focused on the facts and allowed us to debate climate change and how we are going to fight it, not if climate change is real or not.

[Eric Melillo, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister is planning to quadruple the tax on heat, gas and groceries, but he decided to pause the pain for the 3% of families in areas where he is plummeting in the polls and his MPs are revolting. The Liberal rural affairs minister said that, if others wanted the pause, then they should have voted Liberal. People in Nickel Belt voted for a Liberal MP, yet they are not seeing a pause in this tax.

Will the Prime Minister today allow the MP for Nickel Belt a free vote to vote with Conservatives to take the tax off and keep the heat on for people in northern Ontario and right across the country?

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Minister of Indigenous Services and Minister responsible for the Federal Economic Development Agency for Northern Ontario]

Mr. Speaker, I am so proud to be a northern Liberal member of Parliament because I work everyday with constituents who are telling me that we need to take faster action on the climate. This is because we are losing acres of forest and seeing droughts, even in northern Ontario, which are making it harder to grow food and to grow our economy.

My constituents expect me to advocate for a clean environment, and that is exactly what I will do.

Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

Mr. Speaker, let us talk about immigration targets. I would like to quote a document that reads, “from 2026 onward, pin the annual immigration target to...500,000 immigrants...if Canada's population is around 40 million as currently projected.”

Members may think that I am quoting the Liberal plan released last week, but I am not. These are the words of the Century Initiative by McKinsey. The cap on the numbers announced for 2026 is literally McKinsey's plan from the start.

When will the federal government adjust the targets to match immigrant integration capacity instead of blindly following the advice of McKinsey, a private company that literally manages immigration to Canada?

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Minister of Immigration]

Mr. Speaker, I find that comment strange. It keeps cropping up among Bloc Québécois members. They are so far out in left field that maybe they should take the weekend to go speak with some farmers and see if they need workers, because they do. These workers come from other countries. They should talk to Quebec businesses that need foreign workers. These workers come from other places. The Bloc should be working with us.

We are working with Quebec, and sooner or later the Bloc Québécois needs to get it.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

Mr. Speaker, not only is Ottawa following McKinsey's lead, but it is doing so completely blindly. McKinsey officials themselves have confirmed that their immigration target did not take integration capacity into account.

I would like to quote the former CEO, Dominic Barton, who said in committee last year that “the focus...was just on economics. It wasn't thinking about the social context. It was on productivity.”

Capping immigration targets at 500,000 means blithely taking advice that ignores integration capacity. Last week, the government promised to respect that capacity.

Will the government review its targets?

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Minister of Immigration]

Mr. Speaker, I have never spoken to McKinsey. However, I have spoken to Canadians who want more people from abroad, who want more immigrants to come here to work in factories, to work in the fields, in areas represented by the Bloc Québécois. Clearly, we need immigration.

Five hundred thousand is a reasonable target. That is for three years. It has nothing to do with what McKinsey says.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the only difference between Ottawa and McKinsey is that Ottawa goes faster.

McKinsey predicted that the population would reach 40 million in 2026. It did so this past June. According to Statistics Canada, if the trend seen from 2022 to 2023 holds, the population will double in 25 years. It will exceed 80 million people in 2048 regardless of our integration capacity for housing, health care, education, French language training and so forth.

When will this government finally understand that successful immigration is achieved by respecting integration capacity?

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Minister of Immigration]

Mr. Speaker, it is clear that over the past year, Canadians have asked us to do more when it comes to integration capacity.

I am also hearing that we need immigration to grow our businesses. We know that there is still a labour shortage.

We need to take a more surgical approach to our targets. Let us look at what we tabled this week. I think that the Bloc Québécois will be comforted by that, unless it does not like immigration. If it does not, then it should say so loud and clear.

Carbon Pricing

[Scott Aitchison, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister plans to quadruple the carbon tax on heat, gas and groceries. Now he has decided to pause the pain for the 3% of families where his poll numbers were plummeting and his MPs were revolting. The Liberal rural affairs minister said that, if people in the Prairies want a carbon tax break, they should elect Liberals. Well, the people in Sault Ste. Marie did elect a Liberal MP, yet the majority of his constituents are not getting the break.

Will the Prime Minister allow the MP from Sault Ste. Marie to freely vote, take the tax off and keep the heat on for the people of the Soo?

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, Minister of Energy and Natural Resources]

Mr. Speaker, the Conservative Party, as is often the case, is leaving out many important facts. Eight out of 10 Canadian families get more money back in the rebate than they pay for the price on pollution. It is an important part of having a robust plan to address climate change in a thoughtful way. With respect to home heating, it is a particular issue that we can invest in to ensure we are saving money for people, as we move forward, while continuing to address climate change.

The Conservative Party is hiding. It is hiding from science. It is hiding from evidence. It needs to have a plan to fight climate change. Canadians expect more.

[Eric Duncan, Conservative, Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON]

Mr. Speaker, Canadians are watching for today's vote on our common-sense Conservative motion to take the tax off all forms of home heating for all Canadians.

The Liberal rural economic development minister said that if people want a pause on the tax, they should have elected more Liberals in the region. Thunder Bay did elect two Liberal MPs, and yet folks there are not getting any pause. Instead, the Prime Minister plans to quadruple the tax on heat, gas and groceries, rather than treating them fairly.

The question is, will the Prime Minister allow these two Liberal MPs from Thunder Bay to vote freely to take the tax off so people can keep the heat on?