Debates of Dec. 7th, 2023

Opposition Motion—Carbon Tax on Farmers, First Nations and Families

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Madam Speaker, as everyone knows, the member was asked to the leave the chamber yesterday. I am not too sure if there was a requirement of the member to apologize—

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, NDP, Carol Hughes]

The hon. member was named and it was just for that sitting day that the hon. member was not allow to attend.

I would ask the hon. member to say his final two words because his one minute is up. Then we can go to the response, and to other questions and comments.

The hon. member.

[Damien Kurek, Conservative, Battle River—Crowfoot, AB]

Madam Speaker, that is a perfect segue. Lawmakers need to be accountable, whether it is senators in the Senate attacking farmers or MPs in this place needing to be accountable for the words they say. That includes the Prime Minister who certainly needs to be held accountable.

[Mario Simard, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

Madam Speaker, I never said that we should not hold the government accountable. After all, the opposition's job is to hold the government accountable.

However, what we cannot do is intimidate people. We cannot do that. I just want to point out that my colleague was expelled from the House during question period yesterday for using intimidating language. I think that this way of doing things is infecting my Conservative Party colleagues.

What I saw yesterday was a profound lack of dignity. I encourage people at home to watch last night's meeting of the Standing Committee on Natural Resources. That will give them a sense of how the Conservative Party asks the government questions. People can then judge the Conservative Party's actions for themselves.

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Environment and Climate Change and to the Minister of Energy and Natural Resources]

Madam Speaker, I would like to ask my colleague from Jonquière to talk a little more about what happened last night in committee. In his opinion, did it lead to any breakthroughs in terms of helping workers in our country, environmental issues and the fight against climate change?

What I saw yesterday were attacks on individuals in committee. There were no discussions about what we are going to do as a country to tackle these very important issues. Can the member help us understand what happened last night?

[Mario Simard, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

Madam Speaker, I really enjoy working with my colleague and I thank her for the question.

I do not agree with Bill C‑50 as it is currently worded. The work I was trying to do yesterday was to bring forward amendments that were proposed to me by environmental groups and unions. Unfortunately, we did not get to talk about those amendments because the Conservative party kept heckling and did not allow us to do our work as legislators. That is what happened yesterday.

I will follow up with all these people who proposed amendments to me. I will tell them that, unfortunately, the work that they did was in vain. All those hours they spent reading the bill to try to improve it were for naught and thrown out the window.

Why is that? That is because there are people in the Conservative Party who have decided to adopt the spurious strategy used by the member for Carleton to try to intimidate people. What we saw yesterday at the Standing Committee on Natural Resources was intimidation pure and simple.

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Madam Speaker, I thank my colleague from Jonquière for his speech and his calm and reasonable tone.

After today's big disappointment regarding the cap on emissions for the oil and gas sectors, we see that the big difference between the Liberals and the Conservatives is that the Conservatives do not even bother to pretend to take the climate crisis seriously. They want to abolish a tax that does not even apply in Quebec. I do not understand why the 10 Conservative members from Quebec continue to argue about that.

What is more, we have learned from Statistics Canada that doing away with the carbon tax in the provinces where it does apply would benefit households that earn more than $250,000 a year. I would like to hear my colleague from Jonquière's comments on that.

[Mario Simard, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

Madam Speaker, I agree with my colleague from Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie. It is true that we often get the impression the Liberal Party claims to be green just for show, but it does not actually walk the talk. Let me share some statistics that do not lie. Over the past two years, the Liberal Party met with oil and gas lobbies 2,000 times. That is 1,000 times a year. That is over three meetings a day, without a break. I do not think that the environmental groups get the same access to the government.

That being said, if my colleague from Rosemont—La Petite‑Patrie is not satisfied with the government's policies, he can always cut ties with the Liberals. It is in his hands.

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Madam Speaker, the government released its environmental reduction plan update today and is bragging about only being on track to meet Harper's targets. It is clearly not on track to meet its own targets.

I am curious whether the member can comment on this new, but very similar, revelation.

[Mario Simard, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

Madam Speaker, the major problem is that Canada is taking the wrong approach. They did not want to cap oil and gas production, but they want to cap GHG emissions. That will not work.

A rather simple concept, the green paradox, explains why. It seems like we want to give those in the oil and gas sector one last chance to line their pockets by supporting them, telling them that we will try to reduce their emissions. However, production is rising steadily. If one has the least bit of sense, one quickly sees that, if production goes up, worldwide GHG emissions will inevitably go up.

[Jeremy Patzer, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

Madam Speaker, I hope the member is at least willing to admit that Quebeckers are disproportionately impacted by the carbon tax. The carbon tax is applied on the trains that go to Quebec, the carbon tax is applied on trucks and semis that transport goods into Quebec and that gets passed on to consumers in Quebec. They are, in fact, paying the carbon tax.

I am wondering if the member opposite would acknowledge, at the very least, that Quebeckers are getting a bad deal by this federally imposed carbon tax. Even though it is not imposed in Quebec, Quebeckers still have to pay for the damages without the rebate from the government.

[Mario Simard, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

Madam Speaker, there is no serious analyst who would support what my colleague says. There is no economist in Quebec who would support it. There is no serious public policy analyst who would be ready to support it.

However, serious analysts would confirm that inaction will cost us dearly. The climate catastrophes we are seeing, that are causing insurance premiums to skyrocket and forcing us to pay two or three times more for infrastructure, will cost us very dearly. My colleagues should be worried about that.

If their goal is to make life easier for families and farmers, I ask them to fight global warming, because it will have disastrous impacts on people's wealth in the coming years.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Madam Speaker, I wonder about the problems of having the leader of the Conservative Party going around indicating misinformation in regard to the price on pollution. Could my colleague provide his thoughts on that and what he believes the impact will be, just in terms of the general knowledge of the population?

[Mario Simard, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

Madam Speaker, we are familiar with the disinformation method of the member from Carleton. He rises in the House to say that people are asking for medical assistance in dying because they have nothing to eat, and to promote a video he shot. I get the impression that we have a Leader of the Opposition who is of little substance, who is trying to be an influencer, and who twists every fact in his favour by trying to pander. He is a Leader of the Opposition who finds simple solutions to very complex problems. To me, this is populism defined.

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Madam Speaker, I will be sharing my time with the member for Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie.

This holiday season comes at a very difficult time in Canada. People are struggling to get by. Food bank use is at an all-time high, and many families are unable to pay the cost of their heating bills. The Liberals are failing everyday people.

About a month ago, I was proud that the NDP presented a motion that called on the government to provide heat pumps to low and middle-income households in Canada, to remove the GST on all home heating and to implement a windfall profit tax on oil and gas companies, which are making record-breaking profits. It is shameful that there are oil and gas executives making record profits and getting millions in bonuses this holiday while Canadian workers are barely scraping by. Our NDP team is fighting to make life more affordable for everyday Canadians.

Unsurprisingly, the Liberals teamed up with the Conservatives to vote against our motion. I guess this makes sense; this year, the Liberal government met with oil and gas lobbyists over 1,000 times, which is nearly three times every single day. Not only did it meet with them, but it also invited oil and gas executives to help craft its climate plan. These are the same CEOs who are fuelling the climate crisis to maximize their own profits. It is like inviting the fox to help us design our henhouse. Therefore, it is not surprising that, when it comes to fighting the climate crisis, Liberals continue to drag their feet and disappoint.

Canadians voted for a strong emissions cap on oil and gas. Now that it is finally being announced, we find out that it is full of loopholes and gaps that let oil and gas companies carry on polluting. Industry will not be asked to cut emissions in line with the government's own emissions reduction plan. There is compliance flexibility, but what this actually means is that the Liberals are making everyday Canadians and every other sector of the economy pick up the slack. The Liberals are throwing young people's future under the bus to make life easier for oil and gas CEOs.

We are in a climate emergency. After the worst wildfire season in this country's history, forced evacuations across the country and droughts leading to crop failures, the fact is that we are already breaking the 2°C threshold. We cannot wait any longer, and farmers are on the front lines of the fight against climate change. Few feel the impact of our changing climate more than they do. We need to ensure that they have the tools they need to keep doing their jobs. This is why I am proud to support the work of my colleague, the member for Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, who has been working on the national soil health strategy bill. When we support farmers, the benefits in healthy food and a safer, greener environment are for everyone.

It is also important to note the disproportionate impact of the increasing frequency and severity of climate disasters, such as floods, droughts and forest fires, on indigenous communities. In the last 13 years, indigenous communities have faced over 580 evacuation orders, and extreme weather events and climate-related disasters are only expected to get worse.

What do the Conservatives propose to do to deal with these climate-related disasters? How do they plan to support first nations, Inuit and Métis communities that are impacted by the climate crisis? The reality is that the Conservatives do not have a plan. They cannot even agree about whether climate change is real, let alone how we fight it.

While indigenous communities are often on the front lines of the climate crisis, they are also facing the cost of living crisis more intensely than many other communities are. The price of groceries in remote communities is through the roof. My colleague from Nunavut has highlighted the housing crisis in her riding as well, and her constituents are not alone. The indigenous housing crisis is a serious problem across our country. That is why we forced the Liberals to include by indigenous, for indigenous housing in budget 2023. However, so much more needs to be done. In my community, urban indigenous folks are facing a variety of unique challenges in accessing safe, affordable and culturally supportive housing.

This is why I am so grateful that we have organizations such as the Aboriginal Coalition to End Homelessness. They are doing incredible work. However, without stable, ongoing funding and adequate federal funding for their projects, indigenous people in my community have been hit hard. This is an environment where inflation has been high, interest rates are skyrocketing, the cost of living keeps going up and housing is unaffordable even for people with full-time jobs.

The Victorian Native Friendship Centre is another incredible organization doing important work. Their executive director, Ron Rice, talks about how they provide housing for grandparents raising their grandchildren, youth attending post-secondary and youth transitioning out of care. He has spoken about how many of the people who stay in their shelter have at least one full-time job. The federal government needs to provide more funding and resources to these organizations, and we need a federal acquisitions fund for the community housing sector to acquire rental housing properties.

It is disappointing that the Liberals always drag their feet and need to be pushed into doing the right thing. At the same time, it seems that the Conservatives only listen to indigenous communities when it serves their interest. Why did the Harper government refuse to launch an inquiry into missing and murdered indigenous women and girls? Why are the current Conservatives not using today to bring forward a motion about the epidemic of missing and murdered indigenous women, girls and two-spirit people or about the water crisis in indigenous communities?

Why are they not calling for a solution to the indigenous housing crisis in Nunavut or the housing crisis impacting Métis communities? Inuit and Métis people are not even mentioned in their motion. There are intergenerational cycles of homelessness and colonial violence that pushed Inuit, Métis and first nations people off their lands. Why do the Conservatives only advocate for indigenous people when it is related to the carbon tax?

Today, I asked the Conservative leader how he responds not only to the people who are hurt by his comments from 15 years ago, to the effect that residential school survivors “need a stronger work ethic” rather than compensation, but also to first nations, Inuit and Métis people who would like him to apologize for this year, when he chose to speak to residential school deniers at a luncheon in Winnipeg. He responded by saying that he addressed those comments 15 years ago. What about his actions this year?

It is clear that he is not who he says he is. These are not the actions of someone who understands or respects the needs of indigenous people.

Neither the Liberals nor the Conservatives have responded adequately to the concerns of indigenous people. Neither party has responded to the Assembly of First Nations' call for an additional $30 billion in climate adaptation funding for their communities, nor has it met Métis and Inuit needs.

The Liberals are spending more money to help communities evacuate than they are spending to help them prevent a crisis in the first place. This is clearly unacceptable. Canada deserves better than the delay-and-disappoint Liberals or the corporate-controlled Conservatives.

Our New Democrat team has been calling for a rollback to the carbon tax loopholes that the Liberals gave to the biggest polluters. Instead of having loopholes, they should be made to pay their fair share.

We are taking on grocery store executives. Canadians know that New Democrats are the only party that will stand up to the rich CEOs who are gouging Canadians while raking in record profits.

We also believe that Canadians across the country deserve a break on their heating bills, which is why we are calling to remove the GST on home heating and for programs to deliver heat pumps to low and middle-income families. We are calling on the Liberals to finally implement a windfall profits tax on oil and gas companies to pay for it. We are also pushing the government to engage in true reconciliation, to properly fund indigenous organizations who are doing for indigenous, by indigenous housing.

We are pushing them to make it easier for farmers to burn cleaner fuels, which would help reduce carbon emissions, as well as to create a red dress alert to save the lives of indigenous women who are at risk. We will keep fighting for people from coast to coast to coast.

I urge my colleagues from across party lines to do the same.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

Madam Speaker, the level of hypocrisy coming from the NDP is staggering. At every step of the way, NDP members support the Liberal government; then, when it is convenient for them, they stand up and say, “Shame on the Liberals.”

When it comes down to the vote, they toe the line. One can hear the echo of the whip from the Liberals whipping the NDP. They vote to support the Liberals, whether it is cover-ups or the carbon tax. The only ones who have been pressuring the Liberals to axe the tax have been members in our Conservative caucus.

The hon. member talked about the wildfires and droughts in our province of British Columbia. We have to do more to stop the extreme weather events; I agree with that. I believe that climate change is impacting it, but the carbon tax is not working.

Why does she vote in favour of punishing British Columbians and Canadians? She always toes the line.

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Madam Speaker, it is wild to me that the member would mislead his own constituents and British Columbians across our province, because guess what. British Columbia has a provincial carbon tax. This motion has nothing to do with helping out British Columbians. It does not have anything to do with helping first nations, Inuit and Métis—

[An hon. member]

Oh, oh!

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, NDP, Carol Hughes]

Order. There is a member who seems to be contributing, a parliamentary secretary at that. I would ask him, if he has questions and comments, to wait. This is not very respectful to both sides.

The hon. member who just asked the question wants to contribute more. I would ask him to wait as well until I ask for questions and comments and he can attempt to be recognized.

The hon. member for Victoria.

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Madam Speaker, I would ask the member to stop misleading British Columbians. This has nothing to do with them, since there is a provincial carbon tax that was brought in by a conservative premier.

I hear him talk about the NDP versus the Conservatives, but we are the only party that is pushing to get things done to deliver for Canadians, while the Conservatives obstruct and listen to the lobbyists, who make up about half of their national executive. These are corporate-controlled Conservatives.

[Jenica Atwin, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Indigenous Services]

Madam Speaker, I know my hon. colleague is deeply passionate about this and knowledgeable. She is a mom of young kids. It deeply concerns me the kind of future we are handing over to our children.

I was privileged enough to sit in on a finance committee meeting when we had the Parliamentary Budget Officer with us. He clarified for I think the millionth time in this place that 0.15% of food inflation could be attributed to the carbon tax, whereas 3.5% was attributed to drought, disease and an unpredictable growing season. It really is the climate impacts we need to address in this House. I am glad she highlighted that.

Also, I find the tokenizing happening with respect to indigenous peoples offensive and disturbing. I really want to reiterate that Métis and Inuit people were excluded from this opposition day motion.

I will move quickly to the piece about windfall tax profits. I would like to learn more about this, as I am concerned about it. We cannot trust oil and gas companies to do the right thing. Would it be possible to pass on those taxes to the consumer through increased prices? I am looking for more clarity on that.

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the member for her passion for the environment and for standing up for indigenous rights.

The windfall tax is an important policy piece that I wish her government would implement. I wish it had the courage to take on rich oil and gas executives and the wealthy CEOs of grocery store chains.

It is hard for me to imagine being in her position and having to stand behind a government that talks the talk but will not walk the walk, when our future, our children's future and our grandchildren's future are at stake in this climate emergency.

[Denis Trudel, Bloc, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague. She spoke at length about the housing crisis.

Last week, I travelled to France with the Canada-France Interparliamentary Association and I met a socialist senator. We talked about housing and she was surprised that Canada gives or lends money to private developers to build housing. Her jaw dropped. To her this is totally absurd.

I know that my colleague spoke earlier about an acquisition fund. One of the problems with the national strategy is that too much money is being sent to private developers for housing that is not at all affordable, for example housing at $2,000 a month in Montreal. She talked about this acquisition fund and the fact that it would be important for the government to lend money to non-profit organizations to buy housing to get it out of the private market. I would like her to elaborate on how important that is.

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the member for the question. It is a very important one.

A housing acquisition fund is a key policy piece that can support housing organizations to acquire the land to provide housing. It is wild to me that the government is giving money out to private developers with no strings and no requirements to ensure affordability or to ensure that the people whose housing is being demolished to build new housing will be able to afford the new units. It is unbelievable.

We also need to tackle real estate investment trusts, which are raking in record profits while renovicting tenants to maximize profits. We give them tax loopholes and incentives and do not make them pay the corporate tax. It is wild.

Let us implement a housing acquisition fund. Let us take the loopholes out of our system—

[The Deputy Speaker, Conservative, Chris d'Entremont]

Resuming debate, the hon. member for Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie.