Debates of March 7th, 2023

Democratic Institutions

[Alain Therrien, Bloc, La Prairie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, at his news conference on Chinese interference yesterday, the Prime Minister once again made it clear that he just does not get it.

People want a public inquiry. He announced a secret committee. Secret is not public; it is secret. We wanted an independent inquiry.

The Prime Minister is going to appoint a special rapporteur himself. This person will report to him and submit their report to him. That is not independent in the least.

Why is the PM refusing to set up an independent public commission of inquiry?

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister was very clear yesterday.

Since taking office, we have implemented robust, concrete measures to counter foreign interference in our elections. We also asked a special rapporteur to go over all these issues and, transparently, give the government recommendations for next steps. We will keep doing what needs to be done to reassure Canadians that our elections are free and democratic and that all members of Parliament were 100% elected by Canadians.

[Alain Therrien, Bloc, La Prairie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, what the Liberals do not understand is that this is not about opposing the government.

This is not about one party against another. It is about public trust in the electoral system. It is about ensuring a level playing field from the start. If we cannot address the issue of the integrity of our elections in a transparent manner, frankly, we are in trouble. We will start to look like a banana republic, with all due respect to bananas.

When will the Prime Minister create an independent public commission?

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, we share precisely that concern with my hon. colleague opposite.

To reassure Canadians, as we have been doing since we first formed government, our intelligence agencies and Canadian institutions are resilient, and we have introduced measures to counter interference in the Canadian electoral system.

Since we formed the government, we have further strengthened these measures. That is also exactly what the Prime Minister announced yesterday evening.

[Jagmeet Singh, NDP, Burnaby South, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the allegations of foreign interference are disturbing and serious. That is why, at committee, we asked for a public inquiry. We asked for a process that is independent and public.

Why is the Prime Minister ignoring these two criteria?

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, I do appreciate the question from the NDP leader.

We share his concerns, as should all members of the House of Commons, about the importance of strengthening our democratic institutions. That is exactly what we have done since coming to power.

Yesterday, the Prime Minister announced other additional measures to increase this protection. We understand that we need to be transparent and open with Canadians. That is exactly what we will continue to do.

[Jagmeet Singh, NDP, Burnaby South, BC]

Mr. Speaker, if the Prime Minister really wanted to restore the confidence of Canadians, he would call a public inquiry.

Here is the situation. We have a Conservative Party that only cares about playing political games with something so serious as our democracy. New Democrats understand that this is serious and it is not an opportunity to play political games. That is why we demanded a public inquiry at committee. There are two criteria we have: The process has to be independent and it has to be public.

Will the government confirm that its process will answer questions about what the Prime Minister knew, when he knew it and what he did about it?

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Minister of Public Safety]

Mr. Speaker, my hon. colleague values transparency. So does this government. That is why yesterday, when we announced the imminent appointment of a special rapporteur, we said that we would abide by and respect any recommendation that that individual would put forward, including and up to a public inquiry.

Equally, I would remind all members of this chamber that we also announced that we would commence consultations on a foreign agent registry as well as the launch of a coordinator to fight against foreign interference. I sincerely hope this is something that all members of this chamber are united on.

[Melissa Lantsman, Conservative, Thornhill, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the Liberals and the NDP are now openly working together to cover up the truth. Yesterday, the Prime Minister kicked the can down the road by announcing that a hand-picked rapporteur is going to look into maybe looking into the interference. He announced that a secret committee with secret hearings will hear secret evidence and then give the Prime Minister a secret conclusion.

When will he call a public inquiry and tell everybody what he is hiding?

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Minister of Public Safety]

Mr. Speaker, members heard the government announce yesterday that it is our intention to appoint a special rapporteur who presents the qualifications, the experience and the knowledge to navigate and survey the options on the best next practical steps that we can take to protect our democratic institutions, including our elections.

Is this truly what the Conservatives have resorted to now, denigrating the very institutions that are there to protect our democracy? Is that all they have to offer, denigration? I sincerely hope not.

[Melissa Lantsman, Conservative, Thornhill, ON]

Mr. Speaker, it sounds desperate. It is a special rapporteur. I get it. The Liberals are blocking a public inquiry, and the NDP is blocking a parliamentary inquiry. As a result, Canadians get a secret committee to look into interference by a foreign dictatorship in our democracy. It is shameful work by the cover-up coalition.

Will they commit to a truly independent and actually public inquiry to look into what the Prime Minister is hiding?

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, our hon. colleague keeps referring to some secret committee. I think that would be very disparaging for the women and men who serve on the National Security and Intelligence Committee of Parliamentarians. We set up, in legislation, an oversight mechanism to look at these very issues, something the previous Conservative government refused to do. Members of her party serve on that committee.

Members of all political parties represented in this House and senators have done good work. We will continue to work with them on these important issues.

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

Mr. Speaker, Beijing's foreign interference is a serious threat, a national threat. It threatens the integrity of democratic institutions, social cohesion, the economy, long-term prosperity and fundamental rights and freedoms, but the government has not treated this threat seriously. It has hidden behind all sorts of excuses and accusations, like anti-Asian racism. Now it is hiding behind a secret committee with secret hearings, secret evidence and secret conclusions, all controlled by the Prime Minister.

When is the government going to come clean with us and with Canadians about what exactly is going on?

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Minister of Public Safety]

Mr. Speaker, my colleague knows well that this government takes the work of fighting against foreign interference very seriously. That is why we introduced Bill C-59, which gave CSIS the threat reduction measure powers it needed to address and mitigate that risk. That is why we introduced Bill C-76, to crack down on foreign funding that could interfere with our elections, but with the corresponding transparency to create the NSICOP and NSIRA, all of which ensures that we can be upfront with Canadians so we can defend our democratic institutions.

The Conservatives should rise above the fray and see that this is not a partisan issue—

[The Speaker, Liberal, Anthony Rota]

The hon. member for Wellington—Halton Hills.

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

Mr. Speaker, if the government treated the threat seriously, it would listen to the advice of CSIS. CSIS has said that an effective way to counter foreign interference is through sunlight and transparency, to build resilience by informing Canadians about interference threat activities. The government has done the opposite. First it hid behind excuses and accusations, and then it hid behind a secret committee and a special rapporteur. The government has been anything but transparent about this. It is burying the truth in process. Why?

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, my hon. friend likes to refer to what CSIS said. Let us talk about what it said in 2013, when the Leader of the Opposition was the minister responsible for democratic institutions. It specifically warned, 10 years ago, “When diaspora groups in Canada are subjected to clandestine and deceptive manipulation by a foreign power in order for it to garner support for its policies and values, these activities constitute a threat to the security of Canada.” What did the then Conservative government do for two years after that 2013 threat? It did absolutely nothing.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the cover-up continues. As the media reports more and more information about the Prime Minister's inaction on the interference in our elections by the communist regime in Beijing, the Prime Minister wants to keep hiding.

Yesterday he announced that his big solution to this serious problem was a secret committee, with secret hearings, secret evidence and secret findings, that he could approve himself.

Today, his Liberal MPs at the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs added another layer, blocking a motion from the three opposition parties calling for Katie Telford to appear before the committee.

Will he have the courage to allow his top adviser to speak?

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, my hon. colleague knows full well that we have been very transparent with the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs. Several ministers have been testifying for months. We have made available, as is appropriate, every senior official responsible for Canada's security and intelligence agencies.

I very much hope to have the great privilege of joining the Minister of Foreign Affairs and testifying before this committee, possibly two days from now, to answer our colleagues' questions, as we should be doing and as we have always done.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

Mr. Speaker, he can bring the Prime Minister's special adviser, Katie Telford, with him.

It will be a secret committee with secret meetings, secret testimony, secret witnesses selected by the Prime Minister's Office and secret findings. Who will decide which findings are made public? Guess what? It will be the Prime Minister and his office.

That is why we absolutely need to hear the testimony of his top adviser, Katie Telford. What is said to Katie Telford is said to the Prime Minister. Now, we want Katie Telford to come tell us about it in committee.

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, I know that my colleague likes to spark outrage, and that is his right, but I can say that, as always, we were transparent with all of the parliamentary committees.

It is the ministers' responsibility to answer our parliamentary colleagues' questions in committee. That is exactly what we did. We also made available all the heads of the security and intelligence agencies, including deputy ministers, to answer members' questions. They will be pleased to return at the committee's request.

[René Villemure, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Mr. Speaker, foreign interference in our elections demands a transparent investigation. Let me say a little bit about what the Prime Minister's definition of transparency is.

Transparency for him means turning the investigation over to a national security committee, a committee whose members will not only be bound to secrecy, but to secrecy in perpetuity, a committee that will hold its meetings behind closed doors and whose proceedings neither the public nor parliamentarians will be allowed to follow, a committee that will not be able to say which witnesses it will meet or report their exact words, a committee whose report will inevitably be redacted.

Where is the transparency in that?

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Minister of Public Safety]

Mr. Speaker, our government increased the level of transparency by creating the National Security and Intelligence Committee of Parliamentarians, or NSICOP, and the National Security and Intelligence Review Agency, or NSIRA.

Yesterday, we announced that we will appoint a special rapporteur to evaluate and monitor all options, and to make recommendations. The government will respect the special rapporteur's choice and recommendations.

That is how we will respect the values of transparency.

[René Villemure, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Mr. Speaker, that gave me goosebumps.

We need an inquiry into foreign interference in our elections that is both transparent and independent.

Instead, the Prime Minister is appointing a special rapporteur who is supposedly independent, even though this person will be appointed by him. Then, this special rapporteur, appointed by the Prime Minister, will decide what the inquiry will and will not cover. This special rapporteur, appointed by the Prime Minister, will be the one to decide whether the Prime Minister should do more to counter foreign interference.

This rapporteur may well be special, but are we really supposed to believe they will be independent?

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Minister of Public Safety]

Mr. Speaker, the government will choose a special rapporteur who possesses the necessary skills and expertise to examine all the options and put forward a recommendation based on the best advice they can offer the government.

That is how we will uphold transparency and protect our democratic institutions and our elections.