House of Commons Hansard #184 of the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was services.

Topics

Air TransportationOral Questions

3:10 p.m.

Mississauga Centre Ontario

Liberal

Omar Alghabra LiberalMinister of Transport

Mr. Speaker, I was proud to share with Canadians the news that our government was taking action to learn from last summer's challenges that we saw in our air sector. Our government is strengthening the protection for our passengers, making sure airlines are accountable and responsible for fulfilling their obligation to their customers. We are standing up for Canadians. We are working with the sectors. We will make sure that every passenger gets the service he or she deserves.

HealthOral Questions

April 25th, 2023 / 3:15 p.m.

NDP

Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC

Mr. Speaker, under the Liberals, the nursing shortage has gotten worse everywhere in the country. A report today says that nurses in Ontario are leaving the profession because of inadequate wages and poor working conditions. We are losing them to private for-profit clinics, and patients are suffering. That is why the NDP called on the government to require public funds to go to public health care, but Liberals refused.

Our health care professionals deserve fair pay and dignity in the workplace, and patients depend on it.

Why is the Prime Minister allowing for-profit delivery to cannibalize public health care in Canada?

HealthOral Questions

3:15 p.m.

Québec Québec

Liberal

Jean-Yves Duclos LiberalMinister of Health

Mr. Speaker, I am obviously very pleased to receive this question. The member knows very well of the additional $200 billion we announced just a few weeks ago in support of provinces and territories in addition to the normal value of the CHT and in addition to the value of tax points, but, more important, to support workers through the crisis the member correctly identified. Those dollars are designed to support the public delivery of health care services in Canada.

Presence in GalleryOral Questions

3:15 p.m.

Liberal

The Speaker Liberal Anthony Rota

I wish to draw the attention of members to the presence in the gallery of the four crew members from NASA's Artemis II mission: Mission Specialist, Canadian Jeremy Hansen; Commander Reid Wiseman; Pilot Victor Glover; and Mission Specialist Christina Koch.

They are accompanied by former U.S. Senator Bill Nelson, NASA's administrator, and Lisa Campbell, President of the Canadian Space Agency.

Presence in GalleryOral Questions

3:15 p.m.

Some hon. members

Hear, hear!

The House resumed from April 24 consideration of the motion.

Citizenship and ImmigrationCommittees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

3:15 p.m.

Liberal

The Speaker Liberal Anthony Rota

It being 3:18 p.m., pursuant to order made on Thursday, June 23, 2022, the House will now proceed to the taking of the deferred recorded division on the motion to concur in the 15th report of the Standing Committee on Citizenship and Immigration.

Call in the members.

(The House divided on the motion, which was agreed to on the following division:)

Vote #303

Committees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

3:30 p.m.

Liberal

The Speaker Liberal Anthony Rota

I declare the motion carried.

We have a point of order from the hon. member for Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan.

Committees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

3:30 p.m.

Conservative

Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB

Mr. Speaker, I wonder if you could clarify the application of Standing Order 18, especially during members' statements.

Committees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

3:30 p.m.

Liberal

The Speaker Liberal Anthony Rota

I will come back to the House with that; I am looking into it. I want to see exactly what was said and the intent of what was said. Thank you for bringing that up.

The House resumed consideration of the motion that Bill C-47, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on March 28, 2023, be read the second time and referred to a committee, and of the amendment.

Budget Implementation Act, 2023, No. 1Government Orders

3:30 p.m.

Conservative

Rob Morrison Conservative Kootenay—Columbia, BC

Mr. Speaker, we would be hard pressed to find an individual in this chamber who does not love Canada. However, there is a difference in approach in this House as it pertains to managing the affairs of the country on behalf of the taxpaying Canadians who have elected us.

We are servants in the House of Commons, not masters. If one wants to see greatness, they should not look around this chamber but around our ridings. In my riding, it can be seen in the coal-stained shirt of Jason, the miner who extracts metal-making minerals from the ground in Elk Valley, metals the government has not acknowledged as critical minerals. It can be seen in the hands of farmers like Tyler, who understands the science and the weather, the soil and commodity prices and how to bring food from the fields to our tables. It can be seen in Terry, the electrician in Cranbrook who can send lightening shooting through a copper wire to light up our homes.

Often these people are called ordinary, but they are not ordinary. They are extraordinary. They are the ones bearing the brunt of broken federal policies. They are the individuals paying, from their paycheques, for the inflation caused by out-of-control federal spending.

Waitress Kassidy in Revelstoke can serve 15 customers at the same time, be on her feet all day, have enough energy to help her son with math homework and pay all of her bills on a minimum wage salary, but she is unable to save any money for her and her son's future. She is not ordinary; she is extraordinary.

Police officer Constable Dianne pushes through the pain of recovering someone's overdosed daughter from a homeless camp in Cranbrook or Nelson, and then, with her husband, tucks their children in at night. She is not ordinary; she is extraordinary.

As the leader of the official opposition has said, that is “the goodness, the greatness, and even the genius of the common people.”

It is the common sense of the common people striving for the purpose of the common home. The people's common democratic home is right here in this place, the House of Commons. All of this is theirs, and it is their common-sense voice that is missing from this budget.

They are the experts on the expense of inflation, an expense caused and fanned by the government. The reality for the hard-working people in Kootenay—Columbia is that life is now more expensive, homes are unattainable, groceries are becoming a luxury and life has become more difficult. However, the finance minister says she has “never been more optimistic about the future of our country”. She is out of touch. This should not be the Canadian experience.

This chamber is green because the first commoners met in the fields of England over 800 years ago. They wrestled power away from high society, the nobility, to make themselves, commoners, masters in their own homeland. Would those who wrestled agree with the policies of the Prime Minister?

On this side of the House, the official opposition remembers what the government has forgotten: We are servants, not masters. It is the common people, those we serve, who are the masters in this free land, and they are the ones who fund the budgets of the day. It is their common sense that is absent from this budget. In fact, this budget continues the Prime Minister's nonsensical approach of higher taxes and inflationary deficits. It does not make Canada work for the people who have done the work.

On the point of the budget, the Conservatives asked the government for three things. First was that the budget pave the way for Canadians to bring home powerful paycheques by lowering taxes and scrapping the carbon tax. Instead of listening to Canadians, the government is continuing with its war on work and increasing taxes, which means workers are punished for working and will now take home even less of their paycheques. Inflationary spending has caused the cost of food and groceries to skyrocket. One in five Canadians is skipping meals, and people are going to food banks asking for help because they cannot afford to eat.

The Prime Minister's grocery rebate would give $234 for a single adult to cover the rising cost of food that the government's inflationary deficits helped cause. Canada's latest food price report predicts that a family of four will spend up to $1,000 more on food this year. That is $600 more than the $467 rebate they will receive.

Just this year, the government raised payroll taxes on workers and small businesses. This means that Ken, a forestry worker living in Creston making $66,600, will be forced to pay an extra $255 through the mandatory Canada pension plan tax this year. That worker will also have to pay an extra $50 through the employment insurance tax. That is a $305 increase.

The grocery rebate does nothing more than just give money back to Canadians that the Prime Minister already clawed away with his tax increases. This will not solve the cost of living crisis.

There is more. The government increased the carbon tax to 14¢ per litre on April 1, making it more expensive for Canadians to heat their homes and get to work. The PBO shows that the carbon tax will cost the average family between $402 and $847 in 2023, even after the rebates. By 2030, the Prime Minister's two carbon taxes could add 50¢ per litre to the price of gasoline. The people of Kootenay—Columbia are already paying $1.70 a litre, which is 40% more per litre than the same fuel 30 minutes away.

We are all well aware, especially in rural Canada, that our food security is dependent on distribution from our truck drivers, those who use diesel fuel. The significant increase in the carbon tax has a direct effect on the cost of our groceries, and the more remote, the more expensive. The cost of fuel is added to all of the commodities shipped, which is a huge burden on the families and seniors in rural Canada.

I could go on. The fact remains that the budget continues the government's war on the worker.

Second, we asked that the budget pave the way for lower prices by ending the inflationary debt and deficits that drive up inflation and interest rates.

Instead of listening to Canadians, the Prime Minister added more debt than all prime ministers combined. He has no plans to balance the budget and control his inflationary deficits, which are driving up the cost of the goods we buy and the interest we pay. Canada's federal debt is projected to reach $1.22 trillion. That is nearly $81,000 per household in Canada, which is more than many households earn.

Worse than that, he is planning on growing the deficit by $40.1 billion. According to the budget, Canada's debt-to-GDP ratio is projected to increase from 42.4% to 43.5%. Last budget cycle, the finance minister said that Canada's debt-to-GDP ratio was her “fiscal anchor” and that the debt-to-GDP must decline for Canada's finances to be sustainable.

I would like to repeat the finance minister's words, for the constituents of Kootenay—Columbia. The minister said:

...let me be very clear: We are absolutely determined that our debt-to-GDP ratio must continue to decline. Our deficits must continue to be reduced. The pandemic debt we incurred to keep Canadians safe and solvent must—and will—be paid down.

This is our fiscal anchor. This is a line we shall not cross. It will ensure that our finances remain sustainable.

This means, according to the finance minister, that the Prime Minister's inflationary debt and deficits are unsustainable.

The third thing the Conservatives asked for was that the budget pave the way for Canadians to bring the opportunity for homes Canadians can afford by removing government gatekeepers to free up land and speed up building permits. The dream of home ownership has gone from a reality to a dream for young and old Canadians under the government. Nine out of 10 people who do not own a home say they never will.

By every objective measurement, things are more expensive and Canadians are taking home less. This is a tired government that has no plan to help Canadians, no plan to remove the gatekeepers and build more homes, no plan to free up federal lands and properties and no plan to speed up building permits by withholding federal funding from cities that refuse to remove gatekeepers.

Under the government, everything feels broken. Broken is Emma, an elementary school student in Cranbrook asking why her parents cannot afford groceries. Broken is Mary, a single senior in Creston who does not have enough left over to pay for fuel and to make the 120-kilometre drive to visit her doctor. Mary has to make a choice. Broken is Ethan, a father in Cranbrook who has worked hard and done everything right and yet finds himself at the food bank because his paycheque, after taxes and inflation, does not make it to the end of the month.

These are real stories from real Canadians, but help is on its way. The Conservatives plan to turn hurt into hope.

Budget Implementation Act, 2023, No. 1Government Orders

3:40 p.m.

Kingston and the Islands Ontario

Liberal

Mark Gerretsen LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons (Senate)

Madam Speaker, I certainly have much more optimism than the member across the way regarding the position our country is in. It is a lot to say that a country is broken. I could not disagree more with the member.

Yes, from time to time we certainly have work to do, and right now, with the rising costs we are seeing throughout the country and indeed throughout the entire world, we have to help Canadians and support them. However, there are many measures in this budget implementation act that seek to do exactly that, whether it is increasing the GST to help people with the rising costs of groceries the member just mentioned or it is the various other supports in there.

I am wondering if the member can explain, if he is so concerned about people in his community, as he has just indicated, why he cannot support this budget, which takes aim at helping them directly.

Budget Implementation Act, 2023, No. 1Government Orders

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

Rob Morrison Conservative Kootenay—Columbia, BC

Madam Speaker, the reality is that the people out there in our communities are not saying that. They are saying they cannot afford this budget. They are saying they cannot afford to eat. They are saying they cannot afford to drive to a doctor's appointment and eat. Seniors are struggling every day. This budget is not helping them. The carbon tax is not helping them. Our groceries are delivered by diesel trucks. That is our supply chain. We knew during COVID that our supply chains for food supplies were critical, yet we are taxing everyone more, especially with the carbon tax, such as farmers, ranchers and our deliveries, so I do not see a light at the end of the tunnel.

Budget Implementation Act, 2023, No. 1Government Orders

3:40 p.m.

Bloc

Andréanne Larouche Bloc Shefford, QC

Madam Speaker, in his speech, my Conservative colleague talked about seniors in relation to the carbon tax.

I have a suggestion for my colleague. What the seniors in my riding, in Quebec, are asking me for and what they talk to me about is a little more direct assistance to help them get through this crisis. They want an increase in old age security for all seniors to address the inequality between people aged 75 and over and those under 75. This would be a first step towards recognizing that seniors are affected by the inflation crisis.

This budget contains nothing except a one-time cheque to help them with groceries. That cheque will be used up in no time.

I wonder if he could talk more about the importance of providing much more direct assistance to seniors, specifically by increasing old age security.

Budget Implementation Act, 2023, No. 1Government Orders

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

Rob Morrison Conservative Kootenay—Columbia, BC

Madam Speaker, I agree that seniors are fragile and they are the ones getting hurt the most as the prices go up for groceries, when a head of lettuce goes up to $3 or $4 and seniors are only getting OAS. Some get CPP, and some do not. That is the most critical part of our society. Seniors are the ones who took care of us, our parents. They are the ones we have to take the time to find some funding for, so we can help them through this inflationary crisis, but we cannot do that if we keep spending money we do not have and all of a sudden inflation starts rising.

Budget Implementation Act, 2023, No. 1Government Orders

3:45 p.m.

NDP

Richard Cannings NDP South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC

Madam Speaker, my neighbour in the Kootenays spent a lot of time talking about the carbon tax. The Conservatives, and certainly a British Columbian conservative such as he, never mention the fact that the carbon tax in British Columbia is a conservative tax. It was brought in by Gordon Campbell in 2008, 15 years ago. I am sure the member voted for Gordon Campbell several times. Yes, it went up 3¢ a litre on April 1. The price of gas in his riding and my riding has gone up probably a dollar over the last year.

Instead of this fight against the carbon tax, when most people get all of that back, would he join the NDP in the fight for an excessive profits tax on the big oil and gas companies and big grocery retailers that are driving up the price of gas and groceries?

Budget Implementation Act, 2023, No. 1Government Orders

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Rob Morrison Conservative Kootenay—Columbia, BC

Madam Speaker, here is the issue: People cannot afford the carbon tax today. To say that it is only 3¢ is not the point; the point is that they do not have the money to buy their groceries. They do not have the money to take their children on holidays. They just do not have any money. They cannot buy homes. They cannot rent houses. The taxes we have today are overpowering. When we talk about the carbon tax, let us talk about the farmers and ranchers. They are the ones paying the brunt of the carbon tax because of what they are delivering. I cannot support that.

Budget Implementation Act, 2023, No. 1Government Orders

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

Brendan Hanley Liberal Yukon, YT

Madam Speaker, I am pleased today to tell the story of budget 2023 as it pertains to my constituents in the Yukon. This budget is one that aptly reflects the unique circumstances we are living in today. Given the present tough times Canadians face, the budget is restrained while at the same time ambitiously setting the tone for the years and decades to come.

After ensuring that we were there to support Canadians through the COVID–19 pandemic, directing unprecedented levels of fiscal and social supports to Canadians for the last few years, our government now must refocus its efforts for the future. Our planet is facing a series of challenges, from climate change to geopolitical instability. Canada must rise to meet these crises head-on and boldly go where Canada has not gone before.

Affordability, accessible health care and clean energy are the three themes of this budget, and I will, in these few minutes, spend a bit of time on each of these areas.

In this budget, we are making sure that our country responds effectively to the climate crisis while continuing to support Canadians through the difficult times brought on by the high cost of groceries or limited access to family doctors.

These measures are a direct investment in maintaining our leadership in a rapidly changing world.

While I recognize that it may be little consolation to a Yukoner struggling to pay rent or buy sufficient food to feed the family this month, it is important to note Canada’s relative economic position in the world and recognize the indicators of a strong overall economy. Because we did the right thing to support Canadians through the pandemic, we are poised for a strong recovery.

Helping those who are feeling the pain of high prices the most is a government priority. I am grateful, therefore, that the House unanimously approved last week, in addition to the Canada health transfer top-up, the new grocery rebate, which will help over 9,000 Yukoners.

While we take care of those with the greatest needs, as we have always done with this government, we are laying the foundation for the new economy, one that finally pushes us beyond our dependance on fossil fuels and plants us firmly in the green energy future.

Another aspect of this budget, one important to note for those who, like me, were disappointed not to see everything they were hoping for, is that budget 2023 is another chapter in a series of budgets, not just in the 44th Parliament but since 2015, when our work of rebuilding a Canadian economy that works for all Canadians began, and more chapters will follow.

Our government has been working progressively to insulate Canadians from financial hardship. For example, the affordable child care program announced between Canada and Yukon just over two years ago is creating new regulated early learning and child care spaces for Yukon families to access for $10 a day. The grocery rebate builds on the previous GST rebate extension and the one-time rental subsidy introduced in the fall. Continuing to build our assistance to students, we are proposing a 40% increase in the Canada student grants, which follows on the interest forgiveness for Canada student loans this past year.

In the meantime, we are continuing with the expansion of the rapid housing initiative announced in last year's budget, the tens of billions of dollars announced in 2021 and 2022 for a host of programs to advance reconciliation, and other programs, like the green and inclusive community buildings program.

Now let us take a look at health care. As a physician working in northern and rural communities for much of the past 30 years, including 13 years as the chief medical officer of health in the Yukon, I saw first-hand how our already stressed health care systems strained to meet the added burden placed upon them by the COVID-19 pandemic.

The pandemic highlighted and exacerbated long-standing issues within our health care systems, including access to a family doctor, recruitment and retention of our health care workforce, data collection and sharing, access to care in rural communities, service gaps in mental health care and measures to address substance use and addictions, and a lack of investment in prevention.

As an advocate for better health care for Canadians, I was pleased to see our government’s almost $200-billion commitment to begin addressing these critical issues. For Yukon, this means $380 million over 10 years, including $195 million in new funding. An important part of territorial health funding is a commitment of $100 million for the Yukon over 10 years to support medical travel and health care innovation through the territorial health investment fund. We also see commitments made to meet health care priorities in the Yukon, including improving access to primary care, modernizing the health care system, and addressing the mental health and the toxic drug crises.

Also of note in this budget is $810 million to support medical travel under the non-insured health benefits program for first nations, and $359 million to support a renewed Canadian drugs and substances strategy, including $144 million toward the SUAP, or substance use and addictions program.

Canadians will also benefit from the new dental care plan, which will provide dental insurance to Canadians with family income of less than $90,000. Once the plan is fully phased in, it will help thousands of Canadians and complement the new program that is already up and running in the Yukon. At last, my constituents and millions of other Canadians will receive the dental care they need to avoid costly complications and health problems down the road.

Underpinning the health of Canadians is a healthy economy, an economy that includes and supports all Canadians. To that end, I am pleased to highlight from this budget the investments we are making in order to transition to a cleaner and greener economy.

As many know, Yukon has a proud mining heritage, one that is not only integral to the Yukon’s colourful history, but also key to our future economic prosperity. The days of the gold rush may be past, but renewed interest and investment in critical minerals are just getting started. Canada has an opportunity to become a world leader in this field if we grow and develop critical mining assets in a manner that is responsible, sustainable, efficient, and in lockstep with indigenous partners and communities.

The Yukon is home to 25 of the 31 critical minerals in Canada’s inventory, most notably copper, nickel, tungsten and zinc. Budget 2023’s introduction of a 30% clean technology manufacturing tax credit would help companies invest in the technology and equipment to responsibly extract these key critical minerals.

Canada will need to pick up the pace and increase its presence at every stage of mining, from exploration to processing, in order to provide the materials we need to fuel our green energy future, as well as to provide rewarding and sustainable jobs for Canadians for generations to come.

Mines need power, and so does a growing population, and that power must be clean. I am pleased to see the 15% tax credit for clean electricity investment in this budget, as this and other clean electricity measures would help communities across the north support the transition away from fossil fuels and toward achieving our emissions goals. There are a number of projects currently under way or in the planning stages that I hope will be able to take advantage of these new credits, such as the Atlin hydro expansion project, a partnership among Yukon, B.C. and first nations in both jurisdictions.

Other projects in the north could use the new clean hydrogen investment tax credit and other support measures that have also been announced under the Canada Infrastructure Bank.

As the IPCC's latest report warns us, we are in the last few years of having a chance to turn the climate crisis around. In the Yukon, we are increasingly familiar with the costs of climate change. Just two weeks ago, Whitehorse had to close one of its two routes into the city due to a landslide from heavy snow burden and highly saturated ground. Buildings, roads and runways around the Yukon buckle and bend under melting permafrost in a landscape that is warming at three times the rate of the rest of Canada.

Some of our colleagues across the way believe that fighting climate change is just too much to spend.

Yes, it is costly to invest in building our community's resilience to climate change. It is also costly to transition the economy and drastically reduce our dependence on fossil fuels. That said, the cost of the damage associated with climate change in Canada will be much higher.

In addition, if we make the necessary investments within the next decade, Canada could see a net economic benefit of over $465 billion over the next 10 years.

While Conservatives may take, well, a conservative approach, I prefer to be part of a government that acts to prevent costly disasters and invests in measures that will grow our economy in the future.

Since 2015, we have committed and remain committed to the journey toward reconciliation. An important step on that journey was made by this budget in the urban, rural and northern indigenous housing strategy, which saw a $4-billion commitment, which, over the next seven years, will complement the three existing distinctions-based housing strategies with the CMHC. This new budget commitment will add to previously announced initiatives already under way to continue our ambitious yet much-needed housing strategy.

Affordable housing, accessible health care and investments in clean energy are all making life better for Canadians today, tomorrow and for decades to come. We are living difficult days, and there are more to come.

However, making significant and smart investments today will help us reap the benefits of a greener, fairer, healthier and more prosperous future.

This budget is yet another chapter in building a better Canada.

Budget Implementation Act, 2023, No. 1Government Orders

3:55 p.m.

Bloc

Luc Desilets Bloc Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC

Madam Speaker, I thank my colleague from Yukon for his speech. It is really nice to hear him speak French.

I would like to know whether he shares a concern that I have. Two or three years ago, the Prime Minister said that he would invest 2% of the budget in military spending.

That did not happen. He broke his promise a few weeks ago when he said that he would never reach that target. When we look at the conflicts around the world and the donations that Canada has made to countries like Ukraine, which I am in no way disputing, we see that Canada's military inventory is diminishing.

Does my colleague share my concern that Canada is or will be unable to support countries in need?

Budget Implementation Act, 2023, No. 1Government Orders

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

Brendan Hanley Liberal Yukon, YT

Madam Speaker, we are all concerned about Canada's security, our armed forces and the need for security in the Arctic. However, we need to recognize that that we have spent billions of dollars to strengthen our armed forces and military posture.

We recently heard about the Minister of National Defence's list of achievements. I am very pleased with the progress that has been made.

Budget Implementation Act, 2023, No. 1Government Orders

3:55 p.m.

NDP

Lisa Marie Barron NDP Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC

Madam Speaker, I appreciate my time on the fisheries and oceans committee alongside this member.

One thing that I did not see in the budget was any mention of a national strategy for warning labels on alcoholic products. I know the member has a background in health care and did a lot of work around strategies for warning labels on these products. We know that alcohol consumption comes with increased risks of at least nine different forms of cancer, including breast, colon and liver cancer. The member is very aware of this.

Canadians need and deserve this information. Could the member give his thoughts around supporting my motion, Motion No. 61, to get warning labels on bottles, as well as the stance of the Liberals as to whether they are going to support this important work?

Budget Implementation Act, 2023, No. 1Government Orders

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

Brendan Hanley Liberal Yukon, YT

Madam Speaker, I also enjoy our time together on the fisheries and oceans committee.

We have had direct discussions on this really important subject, which I take to heart. It is important to recognize the many risks that alcohol poses to our health, as well as the place that it has in our society. I certainly look forward to discussing my thoughts on the motion more. It is very good that this motion is being prepared to come to the House, and I look forward to discussing this important issue with my colleagues.

Budget Implementation Act, 2023, No. 1Government Orders

4 p.m.

Conservative

Robert Gordon Kitchen Conservative Souris—Moose Mountain, SK

Madam Speaker, I thank the member for his comments about dealing with rare earth minerals and the huge mining that we deal with not only in Yukon but elsewhere. Vital Metals is a rare earth company in Saskatoon that the federal government has given money to. I suspect the member understands that it has actually shut down because of the huge inflationary cost to produce what it is doing.

The government is proposing that this funding be sponsored by the CPP investment fund. Is the member aware that this is being used to back the investment?