House of Commons Hansard #188 of the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was farm.

Topics

Budget Implementation Act, 2023, No. 1Government Orders

6:05 p.m.

NDP

Blake Desjarlais NDP Edmonton Griesbach, AB

Madam Speaker, at the very beginning of his speech, the hon. member spoke to the housing crisis. New Democrats are going to be in agreement with him on that problem. However, I think the solutions are where we differ most.

It is a fact that there is a housing crisis in Canada. It is also a fact that we are seeing houses being built, but they are only being built for those who can afford them. The market is guiding housing toward increased housing prices, creating a bubble. New Democrats have tabled a solution to ensure that there is non-market housing available, such as social housing, for example.

Could the member be so kind as to offer the House and his colleagues, who would like to hear some clear dialogue on this, a solution from the Conservatives, a solution as to what they would do, rather than and absent of cutting the carbon tax, the three cents they have been talking about? What is the real solution Conservatives are proposing here?

Budget Implementation Act, 2023, No. 1Government Orders

6:05 p.m.

Conservative

John Nater Conservative Perth—Wellington, ON

Madam Speaker, first of all, we would cut the carbon tax. What is more, we will incentivize municipalities. We will incentivize municipalities to remove the gatekeepers to get permits approved quickly. We will densify the population, building around major transit hubs in larger urban centres and, in smaller communities, such as mine and other rural communities, we will incentivize municipalities to broaden their definition of affordable housing to ensure that all Canadians have a place to call home. We need to bring it home for all Canadians.

Budget Implementation Act, 2023, No. 1Government Orders

6:05 p.m.

Bloc

Yves Perron Bloc Berthier—Maskinongé, QC

Madam Speaker, as usual, it is a pleasure to rise in the House.

However, it will quickly become apparent that my speech on Bill C‑47, budget implementation act, 2023, is half-hearted because there is not a lot of good news in this budget. On top of that, we were told this morning that we will not be able to discuss this for very long. We always get quite upset when the government prevents debate and deeper consideration. There is a lot to do. There is a lot we need to discuss.

Why are we displeased with the budget?

I am repeating myself, but I think that our message bears repeating so that it might end up being heard. It is unacceptable for the government not to respond to the demands of Quebec and the provinces on health transfer increases. People in emergency rooms and on waiting lists for surgery are waiting—no pun intended.

There is also the issue of old age security starting at age 65. Everyone talks about the cost of groceries, the cost of living and how difficult things are, and everyone forgets those aged 65 to 74, who are on fixed incomes and are left behind. Government members will respond in a while that they treated seniors very generously and so forth, but these people are not getting any real help. It is unacceptable to create two classes of seniors. We will keep repeating that until it is understood.

EI reform has been promised since 2015, and it is now 2023. That is not right. Promises made need to be kept. What is more, if I understand correctly, in this budget the government will help itself to $17 billion from the EI fund. It is not moving forward with the employment insurance reform so it can balance the budget.

Members who spoke before me talked about housing. It is urgent and essential that 1% of the budget be dedicated to social housing. The sunny-ways speeches and the hair-blowing-in-the-wind rhetoric about affordable housing need to stop. We recently held sessions in Berthier—Maskinongé with the member for Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, who has been working very hard on this file. People on the ground are telling us that even those in the middle class cannot afford affordable housing. That is why we need to act on social housing to get the less fortunate out of the market. It must be done. We have to act.

Obviously, this is a broad outline. However, members will not be surprised to hear me talk about agriculture, because I always talk about agriculture at some point in my speeches. The first disappointment is the tax on Russian fertilizer. They took the $34 million and put it in the on-farm climate action fund. I understand that this is meant to be ancillary compensation, because we are incapable of reimbursing the agricultural producers who paid the tax.

That already does not make sense, but let us say we go along with it. It was too complicated to pay back that money so the government decided to put it in the fund. Will the government do away with those tariffs for next year? Right now, farmers are funding their own program. I hope that the government does not think that that makes it generous.

We need to enhance the support programs for farmers. In our budget requests, we submitted a proposal from young farmers and that was for the government to provide lower-interest loans over 40 years. That would help them cover the cost of buying land, which has become extremely expensive. It is very difficult for a new start-up to be agronomically profitable because the initial purchase price is too high. Can we help them?

In recent weeks, members of the Union des producteurs agricoles, or UPA, sounded the alarm citing the results of a survey. According to this survey of its members, one in 10 agricultural businesses are considering permanently closing their doors in the next year. That is huge. This situation is a result of the huge hike in interest rates and the heavy debt being carried by farms, particularly those owned by young farmers.

The government is saying that it is good and kind and that it is going to feed people, but it needs farmers to do that.

They are the ones who have the courage to take over the family business, after watching their parents work seven days a week, countless hours, when they have endless career options. There is a labour shortage in every sector. It is very easy for a young person living on a farm to look at their parents and decide they do not feel like working all the time and struggling. Then they pick a different career. We need to put measures in place to encourage them to stay. Farming seems rewarding, but it is not easy. People like it and do it because they have a passion for it. I think we need to respect the people who feed us. Let us help them. Let us do as they ask.

I asked the minister this question some time ago. We got what seemed like a favourable response. She said she was thinking about it, but now we expect meaningful action. We often end up waiting for the federal government to take action.

As for improvements to the advance payments program, this budget increases the interest-free limit from $250,000 to $350,000. I applaud this measure. Bravo. I hope that the member from Winnipeg North will be pleased to see that I can point out the positives. However, this should be made permanent. It costs about $13 million, which I think is a quite small amount. It would ensure that our businesses have some flexibility to get through difficult periods. I am asking the government to consider it. Let us make it permanent.

There is also money for the vaccine bank. I also salute this contribution. It is about time. Will the $57 million be enough? We shall see, but it is important to prevent illnesses from spreading. That is why, this morning, we were talking about protecting biosecurity on farms. That is a related issue. It is very important.

I am going to talk about support for modernizing processors. Unfortunately, there is nothing about that in the budget. I think it is important. I am appealing to those in government. When we talk about agriculture, we often tend to simply say “agriculture”, but the portfolio encompasses both agriculture and agri-food.

Most of what we eat has been processed in some way. Agri-food processing plants are in trouble. There is a significant labour shortage, but there is also significant underinvestment in our infrastructure. I have raised this issue in the House a number of times. I do not want us, as a state, to wait for the day when a multinational company that owns a processing plant in Quebec or elsewhere in Canada says that the plant is so old that it is no longer profitable and that it must be torn down and another one must be built, because there is no guarantee that the other one will be built here. That is also important.

Another positive point in the budget is the clarification regarding transfers of family farms. That is a positive. It is long overdue. It has been too long.

If the members of the government are listening in a constructive manner and wondering how they can do better, then I would tell them to act more quickly on things like this. We have been badgering the government to clarify its intentions for over a year now. This has blocked farm transfers, particularly in Quebec.

We need to support regional processing and regional slaughterhouses in particular. I have been talking about this for a long time. Government support will be required for that to work because it is hard for these businesses to turn a profit. I think we realized during the COVID-19 pandemic that our processing industry is sometimes too consolidated. We need only consider what is happening in the pork industry right now. The closure of one processing plant causes major disruptions. We need alternate sites that can help absorb the shock and fluctuations. We need to take action to make all that happen.

I want to talk about reciprocity of standards. Farmers are always talking to us about that. There is nothing in the budget about increasing inspections. Will the DNA test that poultry farmers created ever be implemented? Will vegetables from outside the country be required to meet the same quality standards as what is expected of local growers?

That is important. The government needs to quickly take practical measures to help the agricultural community. I am committed to collaborating, and the Bloc Québécois will be there to help pass appropriate, constructive measures for the agricultural industry. We will be there to support such measures, but they need to be included in this budget. I raised a few points, but there are a lot of things missing.

Budget Implementation Act, 2023, No. 1Government Orders

6:15 p.m.

Winnipeg North Manitoba

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons

Madam Speaker, I enjoyed the member's comments. I wish he were not a separatist. I like the idea that his contributions to the debate are delivered as constructive critiques. There is always room for improvement. The member highlights some areas which, no doubt, we can improve upon.

I want to emphasize that we have a Minister of Agriculture who virtually lives and breathes agriculture. She is very sensitive to the needs of farmers and is a strong advocate for things like supply management and making sure there are supports out there for agriculture, our farmers, producers and so forth. I have had the opportunity, on a couple of occasions, to host her in the province of Manitoba. The passion and knowledge she exemplifies speak volumes, with respect to moving forward as a government and getting things done.

My question for the member is this. Would he possibly look at taking some of those critiques and continue to advocate, maybe with the Minister of Agriculture, because he does have some good ideas? I look forward to—

Budget Implementation Act, 2023, No. 1Government Orders

6:15 p.m.

Liberal

The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès) Liberal Alexandra Mendes

Let us give the hon. member the opportunity to answer.

The hon. member for Berthier—Maskinongé.

Budget Implementation Act, 2023, No. 1Government Orders

6:15 p.m.

Bloc

Yves Perron Bloc Berthier—Maskinongé, QC

Madam Speaker, I did not know I would make someone happy today. I am pleased too.

I want to reassure my colleague. When he says it is too bad that I am a separatist, I say to him that we are still able to work together. What is more, when Quebec becomes politically independent, we will work even better together because we will be equal counterparts. We will maintain ties and continue to collaborate.

As far as informing the minister is concerned, I do that weekly and persistently. We need to be heard. As far as supply management is concerned, we are pleased with the support that is offered and we would like the next steps to unfold quickly.

We are counting on people in the government to support this Bloc bill that we are extremely proud of. It is non-partisan and is aimed at rallying support for our farmers.

Budget Implementation Act, 2023, No. 1Government Orders

6:15 p.m.

NDP

Taylor Bachrach NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

Madam Speaker, I have a question for my colleague about the alternative minimum tax. This is something in the budget that came up earlier in debate. The budget proposes to increase it from 15% to 20.5%. This is a measure that would prevent the wealthiest Canadians from using various tax measures to drive down the amount of tax they pay and to ensure the wealthiest among us pay their fair share.

We heard earlier that the concern of the member for Peterborough—Kawartha is that, if we tax the wealthiest Canadians, they will give less to charity, which is why we should not be supporting these measures. I wonder if that is a view that he shares when it comes to the alternative minimum tax.

Budget Implementation Act, 2023, No. 1Government Orders

6:15 p.m.

Bloc

Yves Perron Bloc Berthier—Maskinongé, QC

Madam Speaker, generally speaking, the Bloc Québécois and Quebeckers have always been in favour of revenue sharing. Therefore, we support this type of measure, which ensures more optimal revenue sharing, to a certain extent of course. I believe it is important for the state to redistribute wealth.

Some believe that if peoples' taxes are too high, they will stop donating to charity. This allows me to clarify the following point. Some media say that Quebeckers donate less to charities than other Canadians. Quebeckers pay much higher taxes than other Canadians, and they have collectively chosen to have a more robust social safety net than that of other Canadians, who are beginning to realize it. For example, they just created a child care program. People should be cautious about making judgments.

In answer to my colleague, I believe that these are easy answers. I believe it is important to have concrete measures for sharing revenue.

Budget Implementation Act, 2023, No. 1Government Orders

6:20 p.m.

Conservative

Arnold Viersen Conservative Peace River—Westlock, AB

Madam Speaker, I commended the Liberals on the fact that they have finally recognized they have been part of the problem in getting major projects built across the country. We have not seen many. Fourteen LNG projects have been shelved and no pipelines have been built. I know that, in northern British Columbia, a number of forestry mills have closed down.

Does the member think this budget will be what restarts major projects being built in this country?

Budget Implementation Act, 2023, No. 1Government Orders

6:20 p.m.

Bloc

Yves Perron Bloc Berthier—Maskinongé, QC

Madam Speaker, I have only 15 seconds left, which is not much time to answer that question.

We need to make the transition from fossil fuels to renewables as quickly as possible and start investing directly in that. That is what the member for Berthier—Maskinongé believes. It is urgent, and I wish everyone understood that.

Budget Implementation Act, 2023, No. 1Government Orders

6:20 p.m.

Conservative

Frank Caputo Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC

Madam Speaker, it is always a pleasure to rise on behalf of the people of Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo. I did a brief video with the member for Cumberland—Colchester, who was a physician in his previous career, recognizing National Physicians' Day. However, my sister told me it is also National Principal's Day, so I am going to give her a shout-out. My sister Rosie Caputo gets a shout-out for being an elementary school principal. Happy National Principal's Day to all those out there as well.

When I looked at the budget, one of the things that stood out to me, actually referenced in question period by the Minister of Public Safety, was a discussion about foreign interference. This is really appropriate today to discuss. The reason I bring that up is because of the news story that was broken by The Globe and Mail in respect of the member for Wellington—Halton Hills. I do feel as though it is relevant to what we are discussing because we are talking about the budget and what will be invested and also about foreign interference.

The question I have is this: Why now? Why is this coming up now? From what I can see, the government was aware of some degree of foreign interference some time ago. It seems almost trite at this point. It is not even debated. I do see that the government has committed some money when it comes to a national foreign interference office; it may not be enough, given what we have heard today. The money has been budgeted, but one of the concerns I have is that, if I recall correctly, the Minister of Public Safety has not spoken about when this registry would be operational. From what I can see, this is something whose time has come on a number of different fronts.

One thing that I would like to speak about and something I talk about frequently is what it is like to be a member of Parliament. Something I will never forget is walking on this green carpet; sitting in the green chair; addressing you, Madam Speaker; the decorum here and the sceptre. This is an honour and a privilege. When I say it is always an honour and always a privilege to rise on behalf of the people of Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, I am mindful of the fact that every time we walk in here we never know when there could be an election. There are 338 of us and we sometimes forget that out of the 36, 37 or 38 million people, we are entrusted with captaining the ship of democracy. A lot of members give up a lot. A lot of people in here have heard me speak about my young children, one of whom has special needs, and about the sacrifices my wife undertakes and my family undertakes in order that I can be here and not only fulfill a dream but also do what I think is really the right thing to do in being here. We all may disagree on different things, but most people here think they are doing the right thing. We may agree on where we are going, but not necessarily on how to get there.

That is why I was so troubled by today's news. We give up a lot to be here. Not only do we give up a lot, but a lot is expected of us. Therefore, when the Globe and Mail story broke, it spoke about the member for Wellington—Halton Hills and his press release. We can all agree that the member is of the highest calibre of integrity and knowledge that this House has seen in some time. I was very troubled by the fact that his statement said that he had not heard about this. Therefore, here we are in the federal legislature of a G7 country and a member of Parliament is not even advised about the impact on their family in relation to a foreign government.

I find that very difficult. On election day, for instance, I had a situation where somebody came up aggressively when I was with one of my children. They were very inappropriate. My Liberal colleague who ran, came up and expressed his dismay. We are here as colleagues and we may not agree, but at the end of the day we are colleagues. In my prior profession as a lawyer, sometimes we would duke it out in the courtroom, but at the end of the day we still took the same oath. We all took the same oath to be here.

Some of us may not believe in the strength of that oath, and I am mindful of that. However, we all took it. Therefore, it really should not matter what side of the House a member is on. However, here we have a situation where the member's family, perhaps for the last two years, has been targeted, and there was not even the courtesy of letting him know from the Prime Minister's Office. This is a Prime Minister who, we are told by his chief of staff, reads everything.

I am puzzled as to how that is acceptable. I know that not everybody can speak out, but I am sure there are people on all sides who really take issue with the fact that somebody who is actively participating in Canadian democracy had their family allegedly targeted, and that person was not informed.

Budget Implementation Act, 2023, No. 1Government Orders

6:25 p.m.

NDP

Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON

Madam Speaker, I rise on a point of order. This may be a very important issue for an opposition day motion. It may be an issue of privilege. However, it has nothing to do with the budget, and we are debating the budget.

Budget Implementation Act, 2023, No. 1Government Orders

6:25 p.m.

Liberal

The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès) Liberal Alexandra Mendes

We are very generous in the leeway we give in debate, but the hon. member for Timmins—James Bay has a point. I am sure the hon. member for Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo will bring us to the discussion on Bill C-47.

Budget Implementation Act, 2023, No. 1Government Orders

6:25 p.m.

Conservative

Frank Caputo Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC

Madam Speaker, I am tying it in. For my colleague from Timmins—James Bay, this is very important, and the way I opened up my speech was to discuss the $13.5 million that was budgeted. Perhaps that was not enough. Why are we actually here dealing with this today? With all due respect, when the budget does talk about $50 million, at foreign interference, everything encompassed in that, including what happens to individual members in this House, is germane. I said what I have to say and was coming to the end of those comments anyway.

I will move now to the budget itself. We have cumulative spending, and I am quoting from one of my Nova Scotia colleagues who did a great deal of work. We are looking here at the national debt rising in the next five years to, in my view, an untenable level. The interest on the national debt will rise from $44 billion today to $50 billion in five years, if the interest rate calculations from the Liberal government are actually correct.

I did a quick search on how much the federal government sends to the provinces in health care transfers. According to a CBC article I reviewed briefly, $49.1 billion is going to be put in health care transfers. We are at the point now where we are putting forward the same amount in federal health care transfers than we are in servicing our debt. I think about that and about how it is problematic on so many different levels.

One of the reasons it is problematic is because the debt has doubled under the current government. When we are talking about how much interest we are paying, so much of it really does lie at the feet of the Prime Minister, because the Prime Minister has done so much when it comes to our debt. This is something I am concerned about.

I am also concerned about inflation, obviously. I was reading about heartbreaking situations. People were talking to me through newsletters by writing back saying that they are a senior who cannot afford groceries. Somebody in his early fifties wrote to me that he cannot afford a condo.

Inflation is a reality. I know the government has finally acknowledged that, but what took a long time was to acknowledge its role in the inflationary fire. I am not sure the government has fully acknowledged that to this day. The government will say it is going to give this or give that. The problem is the price of housing has gone up so high, the price of rent has gone up so quickly and the price of groceries has gone up so substantially that government assistance is meaningless.

In my riding of Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, I think of people who are paying probably $2,000 for a one-bedroom suite. That is what a whole house used to go for. That is what inflation has led to, and that is part of why we have a problem.

The doubling of the national debt is something we cannot overlook. This is also a confidence issue that gives me pause as to why I will not be supporting the government, because I do not have confidence in the government. I do not have confidence in the government's numbers. I do not have confidence food will be more affordable.

One of my colleagues spoke not long ago about the carbon tax and the impact it is having on affordability. The reason that is so contentious is not just because of its impact on affordability, it is also because of the fact the government has missed every single target.

I obviously have much more to say, but I see my time is up and I will answer any questions from my colleagues at this time.

Budget Implementation Act, 2023, No. 1Government Orders

6:30 p.m.

Pickering—Uxbridge Ontario

Liberal

Jennifer O'Connell LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs

Madam Speaker, my hon. colleague spoke a lot about foreign interference, election integrity and breaking news. In fact, I wonder if he would like to respond in this place to the breaking news that a Conservative candidate's campaign manager was just charged with violating Canada's Elections Act, and two Criminal Code charges also.

I am wondering if the member opposite, since he spoke so much about his oath in the office, would like to be the first to champion a full investigation within his party to determine who in the Conservative Party knew and if there will be further decisions made within the Conservative Party to make sure these criminal acts do not happen again.

Budget Implementation Act, 2023, No. 1Government Orders

6:30 p.m.

Conservative

Frank Caputo Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC

Madam Speaker, the reality is this. When we talk about standards and something that is foreign interference, that strikes at the heart of democracy in this place, the fact of the matter is that if somebody has committed an offence, if somebody has laid a charge, due process will allow it to happen. If we want to talk about due process, let us talk about due process. Let us talk about a public inquiry. The members are so passionate about due process and a public inquiry that I am going to look right at them and talk about due process.

How does one get to due process? One gets to it by shining a light on the truth, not by filibustering at the procedure—

Budget Implementation Act, 2023, No. 1Government Orders

6:30 p.m.

Liberal

The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès) Liberal Alexandra Mendes

Questions and comments, the hon. member for Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques.

Budget Implementation Act, 2023, No. 1Government Orders

6:30 p.m.

Bloc

Maxime Blanchette-Joncas Bloc Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC

Madam Speaker, this evening's debate has been very animated.

The first thing that jumps out at me and that I cannot ignore is the point of order raised by my colleague from Timmins—James Bay, who is asking us to return to the budget debate. Earlier, this same colleague and his party imposed a gag order to cut members' speaking time. So much for lessons in democracy and comments on the need to return to the debate at hand.

Budget Implementation Act, 2023, No. 1Government Orders

6:30 p.m.

NDP

Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON

Is that a question for me? I am ready to answer my colleague. Does he have a question for me?

Budget Implementation Act, 2023, No. 1Government Orders

6:30 p.m.

Bloc

Maxime Blanchette-Joncas Bloc Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC

Madam Speaker, we can hear him talking again. I would like you to intervene.

Budget Implementation Act, 2023, No. 1Government Orders

6:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès) Liberal Alexandra Mendes

The hon. member is asking a question. He is making a comment and asking a question of the hon. member for Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo.

The hon. member for Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques.

Budget Implementation Act, 2023, No. 1Government Orders

6:35 p.m.

Bloc

Maxime Blanchette-Joncas Bloc Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC

Madam Speaker, the member is part of the New Democratic Party, but it is not very democratic to talk while other members are talking.

Once again, the new gag order party—

Budget Implementation Act, 2023, No. 1Government Orders

6:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès) Liberal Alexandra Mendes

Order. The hon. member for Timmins—James Bay on a point of order.

Budget Implementation Act, 2023, No. 1Government Orders

6:35 p.m.

NDP

Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON

Madam Speaker, I want to apologize to you as Speaker. You are an excellent Speaker. I misunderstood and thought the member was asking me a question, for which I am more than ready.

However, I want to apologize to you. I trust your leadership in the chair.

Budget Implementation Act, 2023, No. 1Government Orders

6:35 p.m.

Liberal