Debates of May 15th, 2023

Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation—Main Estimates, 2023-24

[Soraya Martinez Ferrada, Liberal, Hochelaga, QC]

Mr. Chair, I said half a million housing units have been renovated or built in Quebec.

[Denis Trudel, Bloc, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Mr. Chair, it looks like I am not going to get an answer.

Housing organizations across Quebec and Canada are proposing a solution because everyone realizes that the national housing strategy is not working. British Columbia has launched a $500-million acquisition fund.

This is a massive issue right now, and I know that the minister and the parliamentary secretary are aware of that. There is a housing construction problem. Things are not moving as quickly as we would like. There is a labour shortage. Increased construction costs are hampering development. We all agree on that.

One of the solutions is to take existing housing stock and get it off the market. This is a solution that many organizations are proposing. British Columbia gets it. They created a $500-million fund to enable non-profit housing organizations across the province to buy private housing and get it off the market in order to keep it affordable. At the moment, many federal programs provide affordable housing. These have resulted in $2,000 housing in Montreal. I do not know who can afford that.

When the minister saw that British Columbia was moving in this direction, did he seriously consider creating a similar fund at the federal level?

[Soraya Martinez Ferrada, Liberal, Hochelaga, QC]

Mr. Chair, what I can tell my colleague is that, in Quebec, and taking just Montreal as an example, we announced a project for 700 housing units that we bought back to ensure that housing remains affordable.

There are projects in place to ensure affordability in the long term, and we will stay the course. We will be building thousands of units in Quebec as part of the third round of our rapid housing initiative.

[Denis Trudel, Bloc, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Mr. Chair, the rapid housing initiative is an interesting program.

Has the minister, the parliamentary secretary or anyone in government given any serious thought to taking all the money in the national strategy, for example, the co-investment fund and the housing accelerator fund, which have billions of dollars in them but are not very effective, and putting all that money into the rapid housing initiative?

Everyone likes the rapid housing initiative. I spoke with some people today who are very happy with it. However, there is not enough funding for the projects that people want to develop.

Have you given any serious thought to rejigging and relaunching the national housing strategy, taking all the money that does not go to real social housing, or even real affordable housing, and putting it into the rapid housing initiative?

The government could invest a few billion dollars a year and make this program permanent, because, frankly, people do love it.

[Soraya Martinez Ferrada, Liberal, Hochelaga, QC]

Mr. Chair, I thank my colleague for his comments. That is exactly what I heard this morning. People are pleased with the rapid housing initiative. They are also very pleased with the national housing co-investment fund. I think that what they want is to ensure that the money gets out quickly. I encourage my colleague to talk to the Government of Quebec as well.

[Denis Trudel, Bloc, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Mr. Chair, let us move on to a related question. Let us talk about the budget we just saw. The government is sending billions of dollars to oil companies to do some greenwashing, which is outrageous. They send billions of dollars for carbon capture, which does not work.

I am talking about billions of dollars sent to companies that made a whopping $200 billion in profits in 2022. If we take the five big oil companies, that is $200 billion in profits. When I saw that the government was sending $20 billion to companies that are already making $200 billion in profits, I asked myself a question.

When the minister saw that in the budget, did he stand up in cabinet and say that hundreds of thousands of households were in desperate need of housing in Quebec and Canada and ask whether we could take that $20 billion and invest it in housing?

[Soraya Martinez Ferrada, Liberal, Hochelaga, QC]

Mr. Chair, I would like to remind my colleague that since putting this national housing strategy in place, the federal government has provided $40 billion to Quebec.

[Denis Trudel, Bloc, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Mr. Chair, I just want to know where the $40 billion was spent. Give me the number of housing units where people were able to unlock the door with a key.

In regard to this $40-billion investment in Quebec that my colleague spoke about, I want someone to tell me where the doors are. I want to know how much the doors built with the $40 billion cost per month. I want someone to tell me right now.

[Soraya Martinez Ferrada, Liberal, Hochelaga, QC]

Mr. Chair, I can quickly tell him about three projects. Chez Doris has 19 rooms for homeless women. Utile, in Quebec City, has almost 200 units of housing for an affordable—more than affordable—price of $490. There are many projects in Quebec, even in his riding.

[Denis Trudel, Bloc, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Mr. Chair, she just spoke about $40 billion. The projects she mentioned add up to perhaps a few million dollars.

Where is the $40 billion she spoke about?

[Soraya Martinez Ferrada, Liberal, Hochelaga, QC]

Mr. Chair, I would just like to make a correction. The $40 billion is for the whole national housing strategy. We are talking about $6 billion for Quebec.

[Denis Trudel, Bloc, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Mr. Chair, at least we got an answer.

I have another question for the minister.

We learned today that the Trans Mountain pipeline will cost $30 billion. I weep to see that. To make matters worse, this is coming from a government that said it would not invest another penny in fossil fuels.

We have a severe housing crisis in Quebec and Canada. There are not enough housing units for the most disadvantaged members of our society. I visited the social housing in Quebec. In Longueuil, in my riding, there are 17 people sharing a three-bedroom apartment. In Trois‑Rivières, a woman who was the victim of domestic violence is sleeping in her car with her two children. Meanwhile, the government is spending $30 billion on outdated energies.

When the minister learned in cabinet that the cost of the Trans Mountain project had increased to $30 billion, did he raise his hand to say that he would take a few billion dollars to build social housing in Quebec and Canada?

[Soraya Martinez Ferrada, Liberal, Hochelaga, QC]

Mr. Chair, I would like to give my colleague some figures because I think that is important.

In terms of CMHC funding, there has been $348 million in the co-investment fund since 2015. Moreover, there is $340 million for phase two of the rapid housing initiative and $223 million for phase one.

Quebec has its fair share of the funding for all the housing units that we want to build in Quebec.

[Denis Trudel, Bloc, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Mr. Chair, I still do not know the address of the projects she is talking about. She named three projects that cost $6 billion. I do not think the projects she told me about are worth $6 billion; otherwise, those are some expensive doors.

I want to see more projects. In fact, I would like to know—if not tonight, tomorrow—what projects actually have people living in them that were built with the $6 billion she is talking about.

[Soraya Martinez Ferrada, Liberal, Hochelaga, QC]

Mr. Chair, all the projects that have been submitted and confirmed can be made public.

Let us not forget that any of the co-investment projects, or even the rapid housing initiative projects, can be combined with funding from Quebec. Many projects have been funded and completed with federal funding.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Mr. Chair, the national housing advocate pointed out that the financialization of housing is a widespread issue that has negatively shaped Canada's housing system. She noted that large institutional investors and financial firms focus on making maximum returns for their shareholders. This is causing real harm to people, contributing to housing unaffordability, worsening housing conditions, and leading to evictions and displacement. Many tenants do not even know who their landlord is, because landlords hide behind numbered companies.

Will the minister do as the housing advocate recommends and track the ownership of financialized housing stock?

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, Minister of Housing and Diversity and Inclusion]

Mr. Chair, I agree with the hon. member that speculative investments in real estate are contributing to pushing housing prices higher. That is why we have legislated a number of measures that can deal with this, including an annual 1% tax on the value of vacant residential real estate that is not owned by Canadians or Canadian residents, as well as a two-year ban on foreign investment in Canadian residential properties. We have also committed to reviewing the tax treatment of real estate investment trusts and, through budget 2022, we announced the launch of a federal review of housing as an asset class.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Mr. Chair, a serious way to address this issue is to stop the profiteering in housing, stop corporate financialized landlords from sweeping up undervalued affordable housing stock and create an acquisition fund for non-profits so that they can acquire and hold that affordable housing stock for the community in perpetuity.

Will the minister place a moratorium on the acquisition of affordable homes by financialized landlords, including REITs and corporate firms, and create an acquisition fund for the non-profit sector?

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

Mr. Chair, I agree with the hon. member that the financialization of housing is an issue that we have to deal with. We are committed, as a government, to making sure that housing is more affordable. We are continuing to do our part in addressing and tackling the financialization of housing.

When it comes to rent control and what landlords do at the local level, of course, the provinces have a major role to play. However, on this side of the House, we believe that we also have a role to play. We know that a number of factors are making housing more expensive, but the biggest issue is supply. As highlighted by the recent data released by the CMHC, Canada is facing a supply shortage. We are doing what we can to tackle financialization, but we are also doing everything we can to tackle supply.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Mr. Chair, the minister should know that what he needs to do is put a moratorium in place and create an acquisition fund for non-profits so that they can get into the market to purchase housing units. This is like what British Columbia is doing, by the way. The federal government has not done that.

The Federal Housing Advocate said that the government has a really important role to play in creating an acquisition fund so that non-market actors, such as housing co-ops, non-profits and social housing, can purchase properties for sale before they are financialized. This means that non-profits would be able to guarantee affordability in perpetuity. The Federal Housing Advocate called for this creation of community wealth instead of individual wealth.

Does the minister agree with that, and will he act on her sound advice?

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

Mr. Chair, I actually agree with the hon. member that co-op housing is a very good model for housing, because it is community owned and community managed. We know that co-op housing is a good model for affordable, community-owned and community-managed housing.

That is why we are investing $1.5 billion to build the first new co-op units in 30 years; we understand that we need a healthy mix of housing. We need community-owned housing and affordable housing units. Moreover, $1.5 billion to build new co-ops in partnership with such organizations as the Co-operative Housing Federation is the right way to go. That is why we put that significant amount of money in place to make sure that we continue to supply more affordable housing units through the co-op model.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Mr. Chair, the minister says he agrees with me. When is he going to announce that they will put a moratorium in place?

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

Mr. Chair, as I said, a number of factors lead to making housing more expensive and contribute to the challenges facing Canadians. One of them is financialization, but a second one is supply, and we are taking measures to deal with both.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Mr. Chair, the minister did not answer the question, so the answer is no. He cannot pretend to agree with me and then do nothing.

When is the minister going to announce an acquisition fund?

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

Mr. Chair, our whole national housing strategy is geared towards helping non-profits and those who are dedicated to increasing affordable housing, as the member has spoken about. They can get help from the federal government so they can build more affordable housing units for Canadians.