Debates of May 15th, 2023

Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation—Main Estimates, 2023-24

[The Chair, Conservative, Chris d'Entremont]

The hon. member.

[Jasraj Singh Hallan, Conservative, Calgary Forest Lawn, AB]

Mr. Chair, for the record, it is $1,607 a month. Calgary had the fastest-growing average one-bedroom rent in the country at almost 50%. Is this what the Prime Minister talked about when he said he was going to make homes more affordable?

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

Mr. Chair, they absolutely do not care about Canadian renters because, if they did, they would not have voted against the Canada housing benefit or the top-up to the Canada housing benefit. In the member's own province of Alberta, the Canada housing benefit is helping 35,000 households. He voted against it.

[Jasraj Singh Hallan, Conservative, Calgary Forest Lawn, AB]

Mr. Chair, we will always vote against any failed policies by the government that double the rent, double mortgages and double the amount it costs to save up for a down payment. This is the same minister who committed $90 billion to a housing plan and gave Canadians double rent, double cost on mortgages and double the cost to save up for a down payment.

How many housing units were built from the $90 billion that he committed for Canadians and newcomers? I want just the number.

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

Mr. Chair, they vote against rental supports and vote against more supply, but hopefully everything will work out because the free market will take care of it. That is exactly the kind of magical thinking that they have on that side of the House. We actually believe in a federal leadership role in housing, in more support for renters and in more supply for Canadians.

[Jasraj Singh Hallan, Conservative, Calgary Forest Lawn, AB]

Mr. Chair, how many units did his $90 billion make for Canadians?

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

Mr. Chair, the national housing strategy has resulted in the creation, building and repair of almost half a million homes and the support of almost two million households. That is our record.

[Jasraj Singh Hallan, Conservative, Calgary Forest Lawn, AB]

Mr. Chair, the website says it has created or committed 118,000. Can the minister tell us how many were actually created, though?

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

Mr. Chair, it is very rich listening to that side of the House talking about how many units were built, how many were created, how many were repaired and how many people were helped, when he voted against every one of those measures to help Canadians.

[Jasraj Singh Hallan, Conservative, Calgary Forest Lawn, AB]

Mr. Chair, how many units were created out of the $90 billion that the minister committed to housing?

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

Mr. Chair, for one last time, does the party opposite believe that Canadians have a right to housing, yes or no?

[Jasraj Singh Hallan, Conservative, Calgary Forest Lawn, AB]

Mr. Chair, Canada built fewer homes last year than the year before. Now, CMHC predicts it will fall by another 32% this year. How did the housing minister fail so badly, so expensively and let this happen?

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

Mr. Chair, how does the party opposite fall so morally bankrupt that the members believe in magical thinking that says that we can cut programs and cut investment, but somehow build more housing? That is incredible. The fact that they can say that with a straight face is concerning.

I know that Canadians see through that because the Conservatives have voted against every single measure to help Canadian homeowners and vulnerable people, but then they come to the House to talk about how they need to help people.

[Jasraj Singh Hallan, Conservative, Calgary Forest Lawn, AB]

Mr. Chair, CMHC cites inflation and high interest rates as the main reason why housing starts are so slow. We know those have both gotten worse because of out-of-control Liberal spending. Again, how did this minister fail so badly and so expensively?

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

Mr. Chair, I am proud to work with the municipalities to build more supply. The Conservatives talk about getting rid of gatekeepers. He should start with his leader. His leader is the biggest gatekeeper in the House, voting against every measure to increase supply, increase affordability and to help vulnerable Canadians.

[Jasraj Singh Hallan, Conservative, Calgary Forest Lawn, AB]

Mr. Chair, for newcomers who are thinking of leaving Canada, their number-one reason is the high cost of living. Canada does not have enough housing supply. The minister cannot answer why his plan has failed so badly. Why is the minister failing newcomers so badly and so expensively?

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

Mr. Chair, that is the kind of rhetoric that keeps coming from that side. They say, “Canada is broken.” Canada is not broken. Canada is the best country in the world, and people are eager to come to Canada to help us grow our economy and create more prosperity in this country.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons (Senate)]

Mr. Chair, it is a real honour for me to rise to speak to this very important issue.

My introduction into politics, just shy of 20 years ago, even before I was involved in municipal politics in Kingston, was being appointed to the affordable housing development committee in Kingston. This committee was put together as a result of the provincial government in Ontario at the time seeing an incredible need for housing and new affordable housing to be built, putting together a program with provincial dollars and working directly with municipalities to come up with a plan as to how we could build more affordable housing, particularly for those who need it the most. Noticeably absent at the time was the federal government. The federal government had absolutely no role to play in that. It was not participating in any way whatsoever.

The former Conservative government had no interest in affordable housing. It treated housing as though it were an issue that was solely for provinces to deal with and, of course, their subordinates, the municipalities. I find it incredibly rich today to not just hear Conservatives go on as though the federal government is solely responsible for housing, but now we are starting to hear it from the NDP too, almost pretending as though the federal government is solely and wholly responsible for building housing in this country. Well, unfortunately for their narratives, that is just not the way it works.

In Canada, we have two levels of government. One is not subordinate to the other. One is not superior to the other. We have provincial governments, and we have a federal government. They are there to work together. One is not in a higher position than the other. They are there to work together on the complex issues that we have, one of those being housing and building housing.

However, the member for Carleton, the Leader of the Opposition, stands up to routinely criticize mayors, politicians and municipal leaders throughout the country. He calls them “woke” and refers to them as “incompetent”. I mean, if he wants to be prime minister, how is he supposed to transition from that combative approach to one of trying to work with municipalities? It is not going to happen.

We do not have to look too far back in history to see where it had already happened with a Conservative government. We can look at Stephen Harper in the former Conservative government, who barely ever met with the premiers. I think there was an extended period of time where he went years without meeting with them because there was absolutely no interest.

Now we have the newest Leader of the Opposition, who gets up in this House to rail on about these gatekeepers, and refers to our local mayors and city councillors as gatekeepers. Who, trying to work together with municipalities, would ever take that approach? It is one that is trying to intentionally be combative for, let us say, hoping to gain a little bit of political gain out of it. Yes, Conservatives will come in here, and they have done it tonight, to resort to their slogans and buzz words, including “gatekeepers, “woke mayors” and “bring it home”. These are the slogans, but they do not have any policies. They do not have any ideas. The irony is that, when there is one idea that they finally seem to have come up with, it is something that we are already doing, and they voted against it. We already have the housing accelerator fund.

The member for Thornhill admitted the day before the last budget that the Conservatives were not going to vote for it any way, so they had already decided, even before seeing the budget, that they were not going to vote for it. Maybe, in their defence, they did not realize what they were voting against. However, the housing accelerator fund is specifically there to help municipalities increase the supply of housing, and it is directly correlated. The money received will be measured against and accounted for in how much housing is being built.

Those are the incentives. That is literally what the Conservatives are now saying is going to be their plan, something that they just voted against. That is the only thing they have offered, a plan that literally already exists and that they voted against days ago.

When we try to assess what is going on, we cannot help but come to the natural conclusion that the only things Conservatives are interested in are their buzzwords and their slogans. They are hoping that those things will stick and resonate with Canadians, and that this will somehow translate into the Conservatives forming government. I would suggest to them that Canadians are not as naive or as ill-informed as they might think; Canadians are actually paying attention to what is going on.

When one talks about things as critical as housing and what is going on, I know that there is a desire to reduce it to some simplistic terms. This is particularly coming from Conservatives. However, the reality is that a lot has happened in the last number of months and years.

We talk about global inflation. Of course, they will never put the word “global” in front of that, despite the fact that it is a global phenomenon. We talk about the pandemic and how that has contributed to things. We talk about Ukraine and how what is going on has affected supply chains, as well as what that has meant to the global economy and, indeed, the Canadian economy, which depends and relies so much on international trade. There is no doubt that we will be affected by the outcomes of those things that I just mentioned and how other countries are dealing with them.

The two programs that I really wanted to talk about in my opening statements before my question were, first, the housing accelerator fund. That fund is specifically tied to municipalities and encourages them to reduce the red tape and the NIMBYism and to put the incentives in place to get municipalities to start aggressively looking at how to build housing. It seems that they are happy about it, but they did not vote for it.

My community is a perfect example of the struggle that exists. Kingston was the first capital of Canada. I know some people would like to debate that with me, but it was. One of the things that we value so much in our community is our downtown and the fact that it did not build up with high-rises decades ago, when many other municipalities did. This is despite the fact that many people were pushing for it. What we see now is a question of how we increase the density in the downtown core as opposed to urban sprawl; we know this is more affordable from the construction, rental and property tax perspectives. It makes more sense. However, how do we balance this with the needs and the desires of a community to maintain the downtown core?

I see that struggle in my community. I know that what is needed is some incentivizing from the federal government to make that happen. I see the federal government's role here as being very important in working with municipalities. We can only accomplish this kind of thing if we sit down with municipal leaders, as the minister has been doing, by going across the country and meeting with mayors and elected officials. We must talk about how the federal government can help them, as opposed to having an appearance by the Leader of the Opposition at the committee of the whole.

By the way, in the seven and a half years that I have been here, not eight, I have never once seen the Leader of the Opposition participate in a committee of the whole meeting. Why does he even have critics or shadow ministers? He is doing everything himself. I am sure he can rely on some of his colleagues to do some of the work for him.

Rather than be critical and call them “woke”, why not sit down with them and ask how we can help them? As a former mayor of a city in Ontario, I can say that this is what mayors want.

My first question for the minister is this: How important is the role of working with mayors and city councils throughout the country, as opposed to just taking a combative approach with them?

[The Chair, Conservative, Chris d'Entremont]

Do not forget, the first capital was Annapolis Royal.

The hon. minister.

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, Minister of Housing and Diversity and Inclusion]

Mr. Chair, that question points to the need for collaboration. Of course, the federal government has a very important leadership role to play in unlocking more housing supply across the country. We have the fastest-growing population of the G7 but very low housing supply. The federal government has a key role to play in that, but we cannot do it alone. We need collaboration and partnership from the provinces and territories, as well as local and municipal governments, and we need to work with them. We need to empower them. We need to invest in them in terms of their ability to permit housing faster, to deliver housing faster, to build more mixed housing, to deliver more density around transit nodes, to make sure we have the right mix of housing, and to make sure that we have walkable, livable and climate-resilient communities.

To do that, we need to work with them, not denigrate them or attack them, which is the approach of the leader of the official opposition. He has called elected officials, mayors of three of Canada's largest cities, “incompetent”. He has called them “woke”. He has dedicated himself to fighting with them. I do not know how that leads to the building of one additional affordable housing unit. Our approach is different. We want to work with our partners to build more housing.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Mr. Chair, the member for Parry Sound—Muskoka, the member for Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry and I all members who currently sit in this House; at one time, we were all mayors in Ontario. Could the minister inform the House of whether he thinks that we fall under that classification of “woke” mayors?

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

Mr. Chair, it is very telling that there are a number of former mayors in this House; some of them sit on that side of the House and have to listen to their own leader attacking mayors, calling them “woke” and “incompetent”. That is an affront to municipally elected local officials, who have been elected by Canadians to address issues around the permitting and delivery of housing.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Mr. Chair, the member for Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry is heckling quite a bit right now. I know that he was a mayor who cared passionately about his community. We were both mayors at the same time. I certainly would not have considered him “woke”. I do not consider him “woke” now. He did a good job of representing his community. Having partners to do that with, such as the federal and provincial governments, certainly would help that tremendously.

One of the programs that I talked about that the federal government and the minister have introduced is the housing accelerator fund. Could the minister go into more detail as to how that is going to specifically incentivize municipalities to build more affordable housing?

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

Mr. Chair, we will do so by taking the investment under the housing accelerator fund, $4 billion, which will go directly to municipalities, local governments, indigenous communities and other governments to build more housing supply. How are we going to do that? We will invest in their systems, their ability to permit housing and deliver it faster. We will also present plans and incentivize them to consider and put in place more density around transit, more affordable housing units in the market and more rental supply in the market.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Mr. Chair, that plan sounds an awful lot like what the Conservatives are saying they would do if they were elected.

Could the minister help to educate me and this House as to why the Conservatives voted against exactly what they are proposing they would do if they got elected?