Debates of May 15th, 2023

Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation—Main Estimates, 2023-24

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

Do I have the floor or not? I did not interrupt you. If you do not interrupt me—

[The Chair, Conservative, Chris d'Entremont]

Order. Let us just keep the conversation going. I do not want to interrupt more than I have to. Let us keep the tone down so we can ask questions and get answers and can get as many as possible in during the 15 minutes.

There is seven minutes and 57 seconds left, and the hon. minister has the floor.

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

Mr. Chair, most of the numbers the leader quoted were wrong.

For someone who has voted against supports for renters, supports for home buyers, supports for building supplies and supports for the most vulnerable people in Canada, it is very rich to see all these questions coming from him as if he cares about this issue.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

Mr. Chair, I have probably voted against every single housing policy the current government has put forward, which has doubled the cost of housing in this country. Therefore, I urge the member to remind Canadians that I am in no way associated with anything the Liberals have done in housing.

The standard home in Canada now costs twice as much as in the U.S. A plan to rein in the stunning boom is a test for both housing markets. Why is it that the average house in Canada costs twice as much as in the United States, when the United States has 10 times the population on a smaller land mass? Why?

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

Mr. Chair, at least he should explain to Canadians why he votes against measures to increase supply. He has been in this House saying that he cares about more supply and getting rid of gatekeepers, but he is the biggest gatekeeper when it comes to actually investing in measures and investments to create more supply for Canadians. He should—

[The Chair, Conservative, Chris d'Entremont]

The hon. leader.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

Mr. Chair, if he wants to talk about housing supply, I will change it up here.

These data clearly show that the pace of home construction relative to population has declined since 2016, according to Scotiabank. In other words, we actually have fewer houses per capita today than we did in 2016. If the minister's housing plan is so great, why is it that the population is growing faster than the supply of housing?

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

Mr. Chair, our population is growing because we have a robust immigration policy, but we also have a growing economy. The issues that the leader points to are issues associated with growth, with low unemployment numbers, high economic growth and high immigration. Skilled people are coming to Canada to help us grow our communities and our economy. If he is against that, he should come out and say that.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

Mr. Chair, the number of housing units per 1,000 Canadians has been falling since 2016, when the current government took office, and we have the fewest houses per capita in the G7, even though we have the most land to build on. Why?

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

Mr. Chair, we are actually doing something about that. We are investing in measures to increase housing supply, but the member has voted against that, so he should come out and explain to Canadians why he keeps doing that. If he cares about supply, why does he block investment in more supply?

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

Mr. Chair, I am voting against his policies because they do not work. It is very simple. The Liberals doubled down payments, doubled mortgage payments, doubled rent and reduced the number of houses per capita. That is why.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Mr. Chair, I rise on a point of order. The rules of committee of the whole are that we are permitted to make a speech at the beginning, and once that speech is done, we can start asking questions. The Leader of the Opposition has now done it two or three times where he has asked a number of questions and then he has gone into giving speeches and giving his own personal opinion on matters. The rules are very clear with respect to this. The time for him to have made a speech has already passed and now he is only into the time of asking questions and receiving answers.

[The Chair, Conservative, Chris d'Entremont]

Let me repeat what I said at the beginning of committee. Each member will be allocated 15 minutes at a time, which may be used both for debate and for posing questions. Should members wish to use this time to make a speech, it can last up to 10 minutes, leaving five minutes for the minister. Also, if members want to just get into questions and answers, they can do that as well.

The hon. parliamentary secretary.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Mr. Chair, the speech part needs to be at the beginning, followed by the questions. Perhaps you want to consult with the Table on that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Chris d'Entremont]

I have consulted with the Table. There is no requirement for the speech. The point is that if a member wants to go directly into questioning the minister, they can go into questioning the minister. I am allocating 30 seconds and 30 seconds, or 15 seconds and 15 seconds, as is the practice of this House.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Mr. Chair, my question was, can they then go into a speech?

[The Chair, Conservative, Chris d'Entremont]

Yes, members can go into a speech and take as long as they want at the end, as long as they are giving enough time for the minister to respond. If the hon. Leader of the Opposition wanted to take five minutes for a question and then have a five-minute answer, that would be fine as well.

Let us just proceed. The hon. leader of the official opposition.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

Mr. Chair, as an example, the median price in Niagara Falls, Canada, is $645,000. The median sale price in Buffalo, 35 minutes away, is $242,000. That is in Canadian dollars on both sides of the border. Why is it that the house 35 minutes away on the Canadian side of the border costs more than twice as much as the same, equivalent house on the American side? Why?

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

Mr. Chair, the leader can ask all the questions he wants, but these are the facts. He does not believe in helping homebuyers. He does not believe in building more supply. He does not have a real plan on housing. He has a half-baked plan built on our real plan that was already in progress from 2017. That is the fact. We can have this debate. I am happy to compare our record to his, which is non-existent. He did not do anything as housing minister, and today he pretends to care about homeowners when he voted against measures to help homeowners.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

Mr. Chair, when I was housing minister, people could afford a home.

In fact, if one looks at the housing on the Canadian side of Niagara Falls versus the American side, it is very interesting. On the Canadian side, at 3047 St. Patrick Avenue, one can get a tiny shack for $549,900. On the American side, one gets a much bigger stand-alone home for $164,000. It is $549,900 on the Canadian side and $164,000 on the American side, and both are at Niagara Falls. Why the discrepancy?

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

Mr. Chair, here are the facts. He spouts numbers and he talks about housing affordability, but when it comes to—

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

Mr. Chair, I did not interrupt the party opposite. I would appreciate it if the members did not interrupt me. I have the right to respond, as I have been asked a question, and it is becoming routine now.

The fact of the matter is that when it comes to housing supply, he has voted against measures to increase housing supply. When it comes to housing affordability and the measures to help homebuyers, he has voted against them and—

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

Mr. Chair, I do not interrupt the other side. It is interfering with my right to reply to the questions from the leader.