House of Commons Hansard #193 of the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was chinese.

Topics

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeRoutine Proceedings

10:45 a.m.

Bloc

Julie Vignola Bloc Beauport—Limoilou, QC

Madam Speaker, I am trying to understand why the government is failing to act on this matter, but I cannot. The House has repeatedly voted in favour of standing up to any form of intimidation and harassment against communities and even against an MP who became an independent so as not to compromise his core values. The government party also voted in favour of that.

In short, I get the impression that the government is not always walking the talk. That is the case here. It seems as though the government is never short on fine words when it is time to talk but turns into a pillar of salt when it comes time to take meaningful action.

What should the government have done if it had put its fine words into action?

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeRoutine Proceedings

10:45 a.m.

Conservative

Melissa Lantsman Conservative Thornhill, ON

Madam Speaker, I agree with the hon. member. The government has not acted on this. We had a motion in the House, which the government voted against, that called for a public inquiry, that called for a foreign agent registry. That is least the government can do to show Chinese Canadians, and, frankly, Canadians right across the country from many diaspora communities who are intimidated by the regimes at home, who are fearful for their lives, their livelihoods and their families, just like what was done to the member for Wellington—Halton Hills, that it actually takes this seriously and that it takes national security seriously. It can vote in favour of the many motions in front of the House that have called for sanction on that.

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeRoutine Proceedings

10:50 a.m.

NDP

Randall Garrison NDP Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC

Madam Speaker, I have intervened on this topic several times to implore members of the House to lower the temperature. I applaud the member who just spoke, because she did attempt to lower the temperature in the House and focus on real solutions.

How does the member see a way out of this impasse in the House, where everything is being held up? Would she agree with me that the things that were in the Conservative motion were quite reasonable, including the necessity of calling a public inquiry, so we are not constantly saying ”he said, she said” about what has happened here and we can get an independent authority to judge the facts about foreign interference?

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeRoutine Proceedings

10:50 a.m.

Conservative

Melissa Lantsman Conservative Thornhill, ON

Madam Speaker, a public inquiry would be one of the ways. A foreign registry would be another way.

Canada does not have a legal definition for political interference. What we have to do is find other things that happen, where diplomats are potentially breaking other laws, in order for us to investigate them.

A foreign registry would allow us a legal definition, perhaps, of what interference is. The Australians have that. This would be a good model to look at.

If the government were actually serious about this, it would at least engage in conversation and not just disparage members of the House.

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeRoutine Proceedings

10:50 a.m.

Conservative

Ryan Williams Conservative Bay of Quinte, ON

Madam Speaker, “speak softly and carry a big stick” was the foreign policy of Theodore Roosevelt, the American president in the early 1900s. It meant softly spoken diplomacy, backed by something that could make one's word count when it mattered and make it stick.

We may not have the largest military in the world, or population or government, but we do have trade, resources and IP. All of those can be used to ensure we uphold our great nation. It allows Canada to maintain its democratic system, while simultaneously expelling any unacceptable state actors who threaten our democracy.

Why does it matter? Because this country matters and our country's place in the world matters, as it is becoming increasingly more hostile. Canada has always been a beacon of hope, a pillar of democracy and freedom alongside our allies including Europe, the United States, Australia, Japan and South Korea, among many others.

However, our democracy is under threat and the threat has infiltrated the very democratic system that we hold incredibly dear. The government has failed to protect Canadians from foreign interference from Beijing. There have been no less than eight police stations set up in Canada to monitor our own citizens in Canada, and 11 MPs were influenced in nominations and elections.

Two years ago, the member for Wellington—Halton Hills had his family threatened and intimidated by a Beijing operator over a vote to denounce the treatment of Chinese Muslim Uyghurs in China and the government allowed the perpetrator to remain in Canada for that two years.

This country, the Prime Minister have allowed Canada to be in an abusive relationship with China. China takes advantage of Canada, which has resulted in a “speak softly and carry a small stick” foreign policy to allow China to treat Canada as the “little potato” nickname it calls our Prime Minister.

China is taking advantage of Canada. If we want proof of that, we can compare it to a survey that talks about the five signs that someone's partner is being taken advantage of. Members can be the judge. The signs are constantly making excuses for them, frequently compromising on the things one wants, being afraid of confrontation with them, often waiting around for them and paying for dinner almost every night.

We constantly make excuses for China. We only need to look at Hansard from the last few weeks to see the government tripping over itself and making excuses for China. The Liberals go so far as to blaming the MP for Wellington—Halton Hills for the fact that his family went through hell. They say it was his fault.

The Liberals have said that it was the Leader of the Opposition, when he was the minister of democratic reform, who did not put stricter laws in place that would have restricted the Liberal government from being interfered with. They say that it is not China's fault. It is the fault of the Conservatives. It is the fault of Canadians. It is the fault of anyone but the Liberals. They constantly make excuses for China when they should not.

We also frequently compromise on the things that we want. What is the biggest export from Canada? Coal. For a government that talks about net zero, or how great it wants the environment to be and how it wants to make the world better, Canada ships coal that is burned in China. Of course, the wind just blows it back toward Canada. Does that sound like we are frequently compromising on the things we want?

We had a deal for vaccines with a company called CanSino in China. It was signed in May 2020. Canada put all its eggs in that basket. It said that said this would save us. The government did not go to Pfizer. It did not go to Moderna at that point. It went to CanSino and signed a deal. Guess what. The deal fell through because China fell through. We are in an abusive relationship with China.

We lost $55 million. I know this is small potatoes compared to the almost $1 billion we lost with Medicago and Novavax, but it was the first of three failed deals, and it was with China. The government promised we would get vaccines. It promised we would have them produced in a facility in Montreal in the summer of 2020, but China let us down because of this relationship.

Another issue is that we are afraid of confrontation with China. We took two years to kick out an agent who threatened a sitting MP in the House. Intelligence went to CSIS and to the Privy Council. We are afraid of confrontation.

We often find ourselves waiting around for China. The Prime Minister had to wait for a meeting with the president of China. We buy $100 billion in trade from China, yet when there was a G7 meeting, the Prime Minister had to go to a side room and have a meeting off camera. The president told him that he was supposed to have a meeting off camera, that he was not supposed to tell anyone about it. The Prime Minister then said that Canada respected the rule of law. Again, we are afraid of confrontation. That is an abusive relationship.

We also pay for dinner every night. In the trade relationship with China, Canada buys $100-billion worth of goods per year from it and China buys, in response, $25-billion worth of goods per year. Madam Speaker, an analogy would you giving me $100 and I give you $25 back, saying that I have the better relationship, that I have to compromise. No, if people give me $100, they have the relationship and the ability to set the compromises. It is a really sad situation.

The real question for Canada and for the Prime Minister is this. What are we going to do to protect Canada's democracy, its people, its government, its MPs, their freedom and democracy, and our home and our values? The government has failed its citizens in its basic duty to protect our values and our home.

If it were not for the accurate and honest reporting of reporters for The Globe and Mail and Global News, the litmus test for a free and democratic society being freedom of the press, our democracy in the House would be worse off than it is now when it comes to protecting the values of our democracy. If it were not for His Majesty's loyal opposition, the government-in-waiting and this prime minister-in-waiting, we would be worse off than we are now. It has been this freedom of the press, not the government, that is truly protecting Canadians by reporting accurately and honestly. It may be too accurately and honestly.

At the Liberal convention this weekend, a motion was passed, saying that the Liberal Party of Canada request the government to explore “options to hold on-line information services accountable for the veracity of material published on their platforms and to limit publication only to material whose sources can be traced.” In other words, if The Globe and Mail or Global News did not disclose its sources, these stories would never have been allowed to come out. Let us think about that for a moment. We are in the House today only because of the freedom of the press.

Reporters Without Borders just demoted Canada from fifth in the world for freedom of the press to 22nd. That is really alarming. Is it only to protect this abusive relationship with China?

The bigger conversation is that a government that promotes democracy should be prepared to face the consequences in protecting it. When this democracy is under threat, the government does not seem to take it seriously. The real question is this. Why do Canadians continually have to shame our government into action? If the government had a leader, that leader would stand up for the country and the democracy which it represents.

Perhaps the biggest question is this. What are we afraid of? Are we afraid of an open inquiry into foreign interference that is not headed by a former member of the Trudeau Foundation? Are we afraid of sending very bad actors who threaten our very own MPs packing? Why did it take two years and two weeks? Why are we afraid of shutting down and stamping out Beijing police stations, with force if need be? Why are we afraid of setting up a foreign registry like they do in the U.S. and in Australia? Are we afraid of defending our democracy, our people and our nation and of holding Canadians and Canada to the high standard that we expect of our government?

We can work together but we will not put up with this abusive relationship. We do not capitulate to infiltration of our elections and our national security or to threats and intimidation to our citizens and our elected officials. When it comes to an abusive relationship, we can either get out of the relationship or we can improve it. The first step, when we are looking at an abusive relationship, is to accept that we are in an abusive relationship and to tackle it head-on in an open inquiry. I think every party in the House has asked for an open inquiry. Maybe it is better if we phrase it as counselling. Maybe we just need a new leader.

To fix this abusive relationship, we need to stand up for Canadians. We need to speak softly, diplomacy is very important, but we carry a big stick. We do not put up with abuse. We do not put up with compromise in our democracy. We certainly do not put up with one country infiltrating another, and we do not put up with democracy as a whole being threatened and putting down Canada, which we know is the number one nation on this planet. To fix this abusive relationship, we need to stand up for Canadians, but perhaps what Canada really needs is a prime minister who will do just that.

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeRoutine Proceedings

11 a.m.

Winnipeg North Manitoba

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons

Madam Speaker, when I was sitting in the opposition benches, Stephen Harper went to China and brought back a commitment for panda bears. What he did not tell us is that he actually signed off on a secretive trade deal.

The member might want to reflect on that, given his comments about trade—

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeRoutine Proceedings

11 a.m.

Some hon. members

Oh, oh.

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeRoutine Proceedings

11 a.m.

Liberal

The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès) Liberal Alexandra Mendes

Order. Could we allow the hon. member to ask his question?

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeRoutine Proceedings

11 a.m.

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux Liberal Winnipeg North, MB

Madam Speaker, when it comes to foreign interference, it is really important to recognize, as I have, that foreign interference has been taking place for many years, even when Stephen Harper was there. Stephen Harper was aware of it.

How does the member justify the secretive trade agreement or Stephen Harper doing nothing? The Prime Minister found out about this last week for the very first time. Within a week, that diplomat was asked to leave the country.

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeRoutine Proceedings

11 a.m.

Conservative

Ryan Williams Conservative Bay of Quinte, ON

Madam Speaker, first of all, we have a trade relationship with China because they are the second biggest economy in the world.

When Stephen Harper signed investment deals, not trade agreements, it benefited Canadians. At this point, there is now a massive trade deficit, and Canadians are not benefiting. Canadians are in an abusive relationship and are losing in this relationship with China under the Prime Minister.

At the end of the day, we have to have a nation that speaks softly, has diplomacy and has sets of investment deals because that is good for Canadians and Canadian companies, but we do not put up with Canadians being compromised, elections being compromised or democracy being compromised. There is a difference. Our government knew that difference and acted on it. The Liberal government does not.

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeRoutine Proceedings

11 a.m.

Bloc

René Villemure Bloc Trois-Rivières, QC

Madam Speaker, I had the pleasure of serving with my colleague on the Standing Committee on Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics. I always liked his knack for summarizing, for getting straight to the point.

As a member of the Bloc—

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeRoutine Proceedings

11 a.m.

Liberal

The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès) Liberal Alexandra Mendes

Would hon. members please remain silent to allow colleagues to ask questions?

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeRoutine Proceedings

11 a.m.

Bloc

René Villemure Bloc Trois-Rivières, QC

Madam Speaker, as a member of the Bloc Québécois, I am always surprised to hear our neighbours across the way point out what Mr. Harper has done. Apparently, Mr. Harper has made a big impact on politics, based on how often they mention him.

Now, for my question. The member mentioned the fact that a resolution passed at the Liberal convention this weekend—one that was akin to a form of media censorship—would be dangerous.

What should we think of a Prime Minister who gets his information from the newspaper rather than CSIS?

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeRoutine Proceedings

11:05 a.m.

Conservative

Ryan Williams Conservative Bay of Quinte, ON

Madam Speaker, we are all very concerned with the fact that there is information that went through the proper channels, but either the Prime Minister ignored it, or he was incompetent in receiving that information on behalf of Canadians.

We have been over this. This has been perhaps the most alarming part of the information we have received. Canadians have been left in the lurch for two years. The Liberal government is trying to figure out why, only based on the fact that the freedom of the press allowed information to come to the public. Otherwise, we would be going about our days dealing with an array of other issues right now.

First and foremost, we want to know who knew, and when. We cannot believe that the Prime Minister and a lot of other people did not know. Certainly, the first act is, how do we fix that? The only way to do that is through an open inquiry at this point.

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeRoutine Proceedings

11:05 a.m.

NDP

Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON

Madam Speaker, I think we all agree that the member for Wellington—Halton Hills has an incredible amount of integrity.

Where we do not see integrity is in how the Conservatives are trying to exploit this. I am amazed that my colleague quotes Teddy Roosevelt. Do Conservatives think their leader is going to carry a big stick? Teddy Roosevelt, of course, launched illegal invasions into Cuba and Philippines, and mass murder, based on falsehoods.

The Conservatives believe that, as long as Canadians do not know history, they will be okay. When it was Stephen Harper who was kissing up to China, what did they announce? The member on the back bench can confirm that they were going to send blueberries to China. In exchange for blueberries, what did China take? Chinese state corporations took control of a huge part of the oil sands. Stephen Harper said that was okay because they were sucking up to China.

For Conservatives to come in now with this false history is really concerning. They are exploiting a very serious situation to make their very juvenile leader look like he is going to walk out on the world stage with his big stick to take on China. For sure, Canadians deserve better than that.

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeRoutine Proceedings

11:05 a.m.

Conservative

Ryan Williams Conservative Bay of Quinte, ON

Madam Speaker, Canadians deserve a government that is going to stand up for them. As I clearly noted, the big stick is our trade relationship, which is will ensure that we can not only encourage growth and investment, but also keep out bad actors and bad countries that want to do bad things to Canadians. We are certainly going to do that. This prime minister or the next prime minister, the opposition leader is going to be a great prime minister and will do that for Canadians.

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeRoutine Proceedings

11:05 a.m.

Conservative

Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC

Madam Speaker, in listening to the debate last night and today, which has been quite something, I am at a loss for words as to how to frame what we are hearing from the other side and the costly coalition down the way. They are scrambling to the defence of the one member of the government who continually stands up to speak to this very important issue. How did we get here?

For months, Canadians have been hearing, through leaked security reports to the media, about Chinese interference or foreign interference in our previous elections and nominations. Then, within the last week, we found out that there was a foreign operative from Beijing, by the name of Zhao Wei, who took it upon himself to find out about a sitting member of Parliament in the House, the member for Wellington—Halton Hills.

The member for Wellington—Halton Hills is very respected on all sides because he is a very reasoned leader. He is very passionate and very articulate. He is measured in his responses, measured in his debate, and he has garnered respect on all sides. However, this foreign operative endeavoured to find out the whereabouts of this sitting member of Parliament's family in China and perhaps here.

Why was that? It was to make an example of him because of the way he voted and the motion he put forward on China's human rights atrocities and its record on human rights as it applies to the Uyghurs, a section of China's population who are being persecuted. Horrible acts are being committed against them. All that he was doing was standing up for this minority, and this Chinese operative decided to target him and his family to make an example of him.

Two years ago, in September 2021, a CSIS report came out identifying this, and this government did nothing. As a matter fact, up until yesterday, Zhao Wei was still in this country affording the privileges and rights that many Canadians do not even have. He had diplomatic immunity to say anything and to do anything. Indeed, the lone speaker from the government would want Canadians to believe that the Prime Minister, his ministers and his cabinet knew nothing about this.

I want to read something from CSIS a report entitled “Mission Focused: Addressing the Threat Environment”. Under the heading of “Duties and Functions”, it reads that they are to:

Investigate activities suspected of constituting threats to the security of Canada and report on these to the Government of Canada.

Take measures to reduce threats if there are reasonable grounds to believe the security of Canada is at risk.

Provide security assessments on individuals who require access to classified information or sensitive sites within the Government of Canada.

Provide security advice relevant to the exercise of the Citizenship Act or the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act.

Conduct foreign intelligence collection within Canada at the request of the Minister of Foreign Affairs or the Minister of National Defence.

However, the report continues with what CSIS, in its own words, can do. It reads:

CSIS may collect foreign intelligence; that is, intelligence relating to the intentions, capabilities and activities of a foreign state. However, foreign intelligence may only be collected from within Canada at the request of the Minister of Foreign Affairs or the Minister of National Defence, and with the consent of the Minister of Public Safety.

These assessments or reports are relied upon and provided to the Government of Canada. The report goes on to say:

In 2022, CSIS produced over 2,500 intelligence [reports]. These are relied upon by Departments and Agencies to help inform policy making and to support evidence-based decisions. Separately, CSIS may also take measures to reduce threats to the security of Canada.

I offer that into the record because there are only two choices here. Either the Liberals and the government do not care about the safety of parliamentarians, the families of those who serve, and the stress and mental health of those in the chamber trying to do their jobs daily, or they are negligent in their duties with malicious intent. They are either grossly incompetent or grossly negligent. That is right. We have two choices here. That is it.

They allowed a threat against a sitting member of Parliament and his family, then they allowed this person, who sent that volley across the bow of the ship and threatened a sitting of Parliament, to stay in the country for two years. They will also have us believe that, seven days after they found out about it, the Prime Minister acted swiftly. If the leader of our country does not know about these threats, he does not care about them, which is crazy to believe. As I said, there are two choices here: They are either grossly incompetent or grossly negligent.

For over two years the government has sat on knowledge that a member of this House and his family have been under threat. For over two years, it has done nothing about it. If we go around this chamber or anywhere on the site of Parliament, there are signs about our security. If we see something, we say something.

Now, we have top secret CSIS security reports that are being leaked to the media. Why is that? It is because, as we heard through other testimony on foreign interference, CSIS has been providing these reports and nobody is acting on them, so whistle-blowers from within are trying to find a way to raise the awareness of the threat levels in our country, whether they are threats of interference in our elections, threats against sitting members of Parliament or threats against Canadians of the Chinese diaspora.

We go out, as members of Parliament, and we meet with Canadians from all walks of life, and there are many times I have had a meeting with members from different diasporas, and they say, “Can we just go outside? I am going to turn my phone off, and I want to go outside.” This is real. They are worried about the foreign interference. They are worried about their country of origin listening in and finding out. They are being intimidated during elections as to who to vote for. These threats are real, and our colleagues across the way would have us believe that there is nothing to see here.

Originally, they said it was because they did not have the information. The government did not act because it did not have the information. It only found out about the threats and intimidation when it was revealed in a Globe and Mail story. What has transpired over the last week in the case before us today provides valuable insight into the Liberal government. What has happened to the hon. member for Wellington—Halton Hills is just another example. Two days after the story broke, the Prime Minister told Canadians that the CSIS document in question had not been circulated.

Can members believe that our leader, the leader of our country, is so woefully unaware? He is blissfully unaware, going merrily about his way in whatever he is doing, going to cocktail events and taking selfies, but he does not know about the threats against a sitting member of Parliament in the House. He told Canadians that the report by CSIS outlining the details of the threat to intimidate the member for Wellington—Halton Hills never left the building. On Thursday, the member for Wellington—Halton Hills caught the Prime Minister in this miscommunication. I say “miscommunication”, because it would be unparliamentary to call it anything like a “lie”.

According to the member, the Prime Minister's very own national security adviser called him directly to tell him that the intelligence assessment of July 20, 2021, was indeed sent to all relative departments, that in fact it did go to the Prime Minister's Office and it did go to the public safety minister's office.

I do not want to get into the machinations of the machinery of the government, but for those watching, the Prime Minister's Office also includes the Privy Council Office. PCO is the Prime Minister's department. He is solely responsible for it. Anyone who has worked in a large organization will understand the silo effect, each part working on its own projects, its own agenda with one large body overseeing everything, being the guy who sits in that seat right there.

With the exception of possibly the finance department, PCO is the only organization in all of government that actually knows what is going on everywhere. In fact, each week all the deputy ministers from across the government descend on the Prime Minister's Office in Langevin Block to discuss what has transpired, what is coming up and how they are going to move forward. They strategize. Each week, all the political chiefs of staff from each department meet so they can inform the Prime Minister's Office on their files and how they are progressing.

The Prime Minister and the government want us to believe that they did not know, that they were not informed, that this information simply fell through the cracks. With all these people meeting each week, discussing issues of national importance, I find it extremely hard to believe that no one in this government would flag this issue, that not one person would say to the Prime Minister that he needed to know about this, that not one person would raise it.

As I said at the start, we should give them the benefit of the doubt. Gross incompetence or malicious intent, there are cases made for each. We have seen gross incompetence daily. We have all heard the rumours about files piled so high on the Prime Minister's desk that it is not inconceivable that perhaps he actually still has not seen the memo yet as it is not on this month's reading list. Maybe it is on next month's reading list.

The total control demanded by this PMO is unlike any in the history of government. Nothing gets signed or passed until the Prime Minister's Office has seen it or okayed it. Nothing gets done until the Prime Minister has given it the green light. Advice from the departments can sit for weeks and months in PCO and PMO and, because the Prime Minister is vacationing in the Caribbean, surfing in B.C., taking all-expense paid trips, things just seem to pile up. I mean, leading is hard.

We all heard the testimony of the Prime Minister's chief of staff, Katie Telford, in recent weeks. The Prime Minister reads everything. If that is true, if he reads everything, we know with certainty that the CSIS intelligence file was in his office. Would it not stand to reason that he actually read it, that he understood it and that he willfully chose to ignore it? That leads us to gross negligence. Why on earth would a Prime Minister put the lives of members of Parliament at risk? I will remind this chamber that the Chinese operative was going to “make an example of” a sitting member of Parliament. What does it mean to “make an example of” ? Why would any threat against a parliamentarian go unanswered?

Why would the government willfully ignore intelligence briefings from CSIS? It is because it did not suit their needs or their political agenda. That is right. If it was not incompetence, it was negligence. It is that simple. If we look at the political climate and the events that were transpiring around this time, we can see a pattern. We know that foreign actors were funnelling money to 11 Liberal candidates in the greater Toronto area, 11 sitting members of Parliament. That is a fact. CSIS has reported on that.

We know that the Prime Minister was planning a snap election at the same time. We know that, despite numerous warnings, the Prime Minister and his staff understood the security threats. We know that CSIS provided the information on the intimidation campaign against the member for Wellington—Halton Hills in 2021 and the government did nothing.

In its 2021 annual report to Parliament, CSIS said that foreign interference threats had increased. Canada's spy agency said efforts by foreign states to steal intellectual property from Canadian researchers and companies were “persistent and sophisticated” and contributed to a “mounting toll on the country's vital assets and knowledge-based economy.” It warned that foreign interference threats in Canada to shape public policy or harass dissidents, as well as espionage, “increase[d] in scale, scope and complexity”. In 2022, an unsealed indictment in the U.S. alleged that Beijing's overseas campaign to put pressure on Chinese nationals to return and face criminal charges in China included enforcement efforts on Canadian soil. That is right, through its use of illegal police stations operating in Toronto and Montreal, the Communist Chinese regime was using intimidation to influence Canadian citizens.

Prior to the 2021 election, constituents came to me and asked if it was real, was it actually happening in Canada that a foreign country had police stations in our country and was forcing Chinese Canadians to do their deeds through intimidation. I chalked it up as conspiracy and told my constituents that it could not be true, yet it is. Months after the government stood in the House and admitted, yes, it is and it had closed their doors, but these police stations are still open. They are still threatening Chinese Canadians.

I said at the beginning that if one sees something, one should say something. Can anyone imagine being from China and living here? They come here for a better life, and yet they are still feeling the undue pressure of the foreign government that they fled because they still have family there. They are still worried about persecution. They are still worried about intimidation. They are still worried about the threats of violence or whatever could happen to their families. Why would they say something when they see the leader of our country taking such a weak stance?

Talking about weakness, time and again we have seen the Prime Minister on the world stage being so weak. Literally weeks after Iran shot down PS752, a Ukrainian airline, killing 57 Canadians, there he was bowing to the same regime that killed those Canadians. The right thing to do is to send a message to these countries that we are strong, that regardless of our political beliefs, we will stand up for one another here.

There is something that we do not take into consideration, at least I did not when I signed up to be a member of Parliament, and that is the threats of violence, the increasing threats to our own safety and our families' safety. I have to say it is alarming. I can handle myself, but I worry about my family, always. The message has to be that regardless of which party we are with, if a country attacks one of us, it attacks us all, and it will not be allowed. When the government was challenged with that, its response was that it was kind of worried about what China was going to do. That is BS. I would like to say that word in full.

The government is so weak on such issues that matter to all Canadians. We can do so much better. Yesterday we had a motion before the House about setting up a foreign interference agency and having a non-partisan commission to investigate foreign interference, and the government voted against it. Yes, it has appointed a special rapporteur who has close connections to the Prime Minister. He might as well just sign the report right now and hand it in because we know what it is going to say. I am not besmirching our former governor general. I am saying the Prime Minister should have better guidance from those around him.

I will cede the floor with this. I am so troubled by the fact that all the government wants to do is impugn the reputation of a sitting member of Parliament that it could have protected in the first place.

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeRoutine Proceedings

11:25 a.m.

Winnipeg North Manitoba

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons

Madam Speaker, what has become abundantly clear in the hours of debate we have had thus far is the fact the Prime Minister found out about this just last week, and a number of measures were taken, including the expulsion of a diplomat within a week. Those are the facts. The member might want to speculate, hypothesize and all these other weird things, but those are the facts.

The Conservatives continue to want to dial up the issue because they want to focus on character assassination more than they want to deal with an issue of substance.

One member affects all members. This is an issue that will be discussed at committee. The question is this. There were 49 members of Parliament in 2022, a couple of dozen provincial legislators and even some local councillors. Does the member not believe that the best way to deal with this is to put politics aside and let the committees do what they need to do?

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeRoutine Proceedings

11:25 a.m.

Conservative

Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC

Madam Speaker, the best way to deal with this would have been two years ago when the government first had the report.

I do not believe for one minute that the Prime Minister, his ministers or those around him did not know about it. I think it is unacceptable that this member of Parliament continues to stand up here and gaslight with respect to the 49 elected officials who were briefed on this. He continues to throw that out there.

Last week, when the Liberals changed their talking points, they tried to say that the member for Wellington—Halton Hills somehow knew about it two years ago and did nothing when it was solely their responsibility to stand up not only for the sitting members of Parliament who have been elected to represent Canadians, but also for those Canadians who are facing intimidation from foreign agents.

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeRoutine Proceedings

11:30 a.m.

Bloc

René Villemure Bloc Trois-Rivières, QC

Madam Speaker, when we look at this whole situation, it is obvious that the Prime Minister does not understand China. When it comes to foreign affairs, I do not think he understands Russia. There are many things like that.

I would like to ask my hon. colleague a question. Is the Prime Minister acting this way because he is gullible, naive or incompetent?

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeRoutine Proceedings

11:30 a.m.

Conservative

Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC

Madam Speaker, that goes to the main point in my intervention, which is this. The Liberals do not care about the safety of parliamentarians or the families of those who serve, so they are either negligent in their duties with malicious intent, grossly incompetent or grossly negligent.

I worked in China for a long time in my previous career and I know about the threats and intimidation. As soon as people land and get into a taxi, it gets pulled over and the Chinese officials know exactly who they are and why they are there.

I have faced intimidation by China. I cannot imagine what it is like to be from the Chinese community living here in Canada, having fled that country for a better life, yet still being faced with threats of violence and intimidation, and worrying about my friends and family back home and the coercion they face. It is unacceptable and the sign of a weak leader. It is not even leadership; it is just weakness.

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeRoutine Proceedings

11:30 a.m.

Green

Elizabeth May Green Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC

Madam Speaker, my hon. friend from Cariboo—Prince George would know that my colleague from Kitchener Centre and I, the Green Party, supported the motion to ensure that the prima facie case of privilege that the hon. member for Wellington—Halton Hills advanced goes to committee for study, but there is one factual matter I want to probe a bit with him.

We know a lot of things about the circumstances here, and I have an open mind on whether the Prime Minister or the people near him in the PMO knew for two years. We do not know that. We know that CSIS wrote a report, we know that the national security advisers knew, but we do not know whether that information was communicated to the Prime Minister's Office and I am not prepared to make that assumption. With respect to the information going forward from CSIS or the national security adviser to the Prime Minister's Office, I find it entirely plausible that it did not pass it on. I would like to ask him if he does not think there is even a possibility that is the case.

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeRoutine Proceedings

11:30 a.m.

Conservative

Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC

Madam Speaker, I am going to respectfully disagree. This is a matter of national importance and of the safety and security of a sitting member of Parliament. I will go back to what I said during my intervention. CSIS does these reports and investigations only at the request of the Minister of Foreign Affairs, the Minister of Public Safety or the Minister of National Defence. I just cannot see it happening that it produced these reports and they somehow sat under a stack of selfies in our Prime Minister's Office without him seeing them. I just cannot see a situation where our Prime Minister does not know about the matter of a national security threat.

Beyond that, CSIS built these reports about potential threats within his party to nominations or whatever. I cannot see any scenario where the Prime Minister, in his leadership, had no knowledge of it. He can say he did not know and plead ignorance all he likes, but I just cannot see it. I have sat in security briefings at the highest level, and I cannot believe that the Prime Minister had no knowledge of it. Our first job is to tell our commander-in-chief when there are threats. We cannot insulate them and allow them to be willfully ignorant of these threats.

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeRoutine Proceedings

11:30 a.m.

Conservative

Gary Vidal Conservative Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK

Madam Speaker, I want to ask my colleague from Cariboo—Prince George to comment briefly on the facts of the timing of all this. We heard from the member across the way that he wants to talk about facts, so let us do so.

We started on Sunday night, when the member for Wellington—Halton Hills was informed of this potential threat to him and his family. That story came out in the media on Monday. On Monday and Tuesday, the government side deflected; there was no comment about anything. Finally, on Wednesday morning, the Prime Minister and the public safety minister said that this report never made it out of CSIS. I think by the end of the day or early the next morning, the member for Wellington—Halton Hills was in fact informed that this report had made it to the PCO and the national security adviser's office. The Liberals deflected for a couple more days. They were going to summon the ambassador to have a conversation, and finally, we end up with this operative, as he is called in many reports, being expelled from our country.

What we are trying to accomplish in this parliamentary privilege motion is actually getting to the truth, and we have the goal of getting it to the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs for a deeper study. Could the member for Cariboo—Prince George talk about how this changing set of facts and narratives affects this?

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeRoutine Proceedings

11:35 a.m.

Conservative

Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC

Madam Speaker, that is kind of the modus operandi we have seen from the Prime Minister, at least in the seven and a half years that I have been a member of Parliament. Whether it is “elbowgate”, Jody Wilson-Raybould, SNC or the WE scandal, it is always, “There is nothing to see here.” Then they blame Stephen Harper or the previous government. It just goes on and on.

The Prime Minister reminds me of the schoolyard bully, where he picks and natters at somebody. When the person finally has enough, they punch the bully in the nose, and the bully runs to his parents and blames everybody else. He does not take responsibility for his own actions, which caused that to happen.

It is the lack of leadership we have seen and come to expect from the Prime Minister, as well as the weakness he has shown time and time again. It is his own self-adulation, the arrogance we have seen and how he loves being on the red carpet rather than being on this green carpet right here.

This is the House of the people; this is the House of Commons. This House elects 338 members of Parliament so that we can bring Canadians' voices here. At the very least, the Prime Minister should be standing up for the 338 members of Parliament so that they can vote with their conscience and be the voices for their constituents and Canadians. Canadians know that we will stand up for them. Regardless of who they are or where they are from, we will allow them to have a free and democratic life here in Canada. We will not stand for a foreign country intimidating them.