Debates of May 9th, 2023

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs

[Denis Trudel, Bloc, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Madam Speaker, the debate on foreign interference is a strange one. It feels as though we are floating. It is as if we are all wearing rose-coloured glasses when it comes to Chinese interference, especially the government. This has been going on for months. An elected official in the House and his family were harassed by the Chinese state, but that was just the tip of the iceberg.

Over the past few months, Chinese balloons have been seen flying over North America. It was never clear what became of that. TikTok, which was installed on the phones of every member of the House, was banned. There was a case of spying in Quebec, at Hydro-Québec, which is a major corporation. We learned that a Chinese spy was working there. We also learned that there were Chinese police stations. How can we tolerate community centres where the Chinese state can put pressure on Canadians who have family there?

The situation is really very serious, but it seems that the government on the other side of the House does not realize it. Does my colleague agree that we are all wearing rose-coloured glasses with respect to the possibility of a state as powerful as China intervening here in Canada?

[John Williamson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Madam Speaker, I completely agree with the member. I think this is a very serious issue, but the government is not taking it seriously.

This is something that I think the government has known about for far too long and has preferred to turn the other way, to ignore it, because it was either not capable of dealing with this or was not willing to make some of the tough decisions that are required to ensure that Canadians remain safe. However, there is no doubt it is a mess, and it is one that has unfolded slowly. This did not just appear one day, but it is story upon story. We must get to the bottom of it.

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Madam Speaker, at the beginning of his speech, the member talked about the incredible beauty, hospitality and kindness of the people of China when he visited there. Then he spoke, of course, about the need for the public inquiry. I certainly hear this from people in my area who are of Chinese descent and background, Chinese Canadians. They have been standing up against the racism and discrimination that they have experienced because of a lot of this uncertainty.

Could the member talk about the point that, in a public inquiry, we could get to the bottom of a lot of this and help fight against anti-Asian racism?

[John Williamson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Madam Speaker, the member's point is spot-on. That is one of the benefits of having a proper public consultation. We would hear from the public, and more and more Canadians would come to realize that the primary target of mainland China, the Communist regime, has been Canadians of Chinese heritage. Those are the people who are not able to fulfill their democratic rights because of intimidation from police stations that operate here illegally, because of intimidation tactics from Beijing's diplomats.

I appreciate the question. It is a great point. We want to make sure this is about the regime in Beijing, and we will hear from Canadians of Chinese descent, who will reinforce the message that they, too, support democracy and freedoms that are the bedrock of this country.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Madam Speaker, it was a pleasure to work with the member on the special committee on Canada-China relations in the last Parliament. We got a lot of important work done. In particular, we began a study, which was interrupted by the election, highlighting the national security threats that were associated with Canada's relationship with the PRC. What struck me about some of the work we did at the time was how many everyday Canadians are impacted by these threats, these instances of foreign interference.

The member for Wellington—Halton Hills has recognized as well that, as he faces these threats, he has a position that allows him to bring attention to them, but many people have suffered in silence. There are many stories we have heard, but there are many stories we will never hear, of people who have been victims of foreign interference and have not been able to bring the attention to the situation that should have been brought to it.

I wonder if the member has thoughts and reflections, as we address this privilege issue involving members of Parliament, on how we can stand with everyday Canadians who face worse threats and do not have the same opportunities.

[John Williamson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Madam Speaker, there is a brief answer to that excellent question, which is to give them a platform to speak, to give Canadians who have faced intimidation and threats from Beijing a platform through Parliament and the Canadian government, and give them the opportunity to stand up and be heard. That would do more to help rectify the situation and correct the many errors that the government made.

We must not forget, and I will remind my colleagues, that the Liberal government actually sued the Speaker prior to the last election, to prevent information that the Canada-China committee had discovered, an outrageous move to protect itself and not ensure that Canadians had the truth.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I want to pick up on what my colleague from Longueuil—Saint-Hubert was saying. He talked about getting the sense that people are wearing rose-coloured glasses, but I am getting the sense that people are worried. I am concerned about how the government is handling issues that are more serious than pretty much anything we have ever seen.

I remember the WE scandal from a few years ago. The government did all it could to cover everything up, to sweep things under the rug over and over until hard-working reporters and opposition members managed to uncover the details. It was appalling. It was even worse than everyone thought initially.

Now we have these allegations of Chinese interference. The more we dig, the more outrageous things we find, yet the Liberals and their Trudeau Foundation friends keep burying their heads in the sand. They act like nothing happened and they never do anything wrong, but actually, something very serious happened.

The government needs to be transparent and collaborate to get this all out in the open and reassure people. The whole situation is extremely worrisome. I would like my colleague to comment on that.

[John Williamson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Madam Speaker, again, I could not agree more. Our strength as a country and a democracy rests on our openness. The weakness of the Communist regime is its insistence on lies and keeping things hidden. We must, as a democracy, ensure that what has happened is known by Canadians so they can hold those who failed in their duty accountable and ensure we have a government here that will stand up for the interests of this country and voters right across the country.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Madam Speaker, in this debate, I would like to say that as an MP, I am very worried about the state of democracy.

Can my colleague say whether he feels any pressure? Does he feel threatened? If so, how does that affect him and his ability to perform his role as an MP? As we know, several ridings were targeted. If he were one of those targeted, how would he be able to play his role independently? Fundamentally, it is our democracy and the integrity of the House that are being attacked.

[John Williamson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Madam Speaker, to date that has not been the case. I have no problems doing my work in my riding.

That said, we can think of Kenny Chiu, a former member of the House of Commons who was targeted by Beijing's attacks. There are some very serious examples. Some members are no longer in this place because of the Communist Party's efforts to ensure that they lost their election and could no longer return to the House to defend their political ideas.

That is very serious. The government says that this did not influence the election, that it did not really change anything. However, some members are not here because of the Communists.

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

Madam Speaker, I want to start off with an excerpt from a Globe and Mail article from February 2019. It reads, “The allegations reported in the story are false. At no time did I or my office direct the current or previous attorney-general to make any particular decision in this matter”.

This is, I think, what starts our debate here and takes us into a concern for many Canadians, which I am hearing from across all party lines, about where we are with China and the information that is slowly coming out from the PMO. If we are trying to compare this to something like SNC-Lavalin, we truly cannot. It is one of those pinnacles, one of those things that is so high. This is about democracy, integrity and the work we can do as parliamentarians without fear for our families.

I started reading these stories once I heard about the allegation about the foreign interference with the member for Wellington—Halton Hills, and I came to this very simple point: How can we do our jobs when we do not feel safe or when our families are threatened, whether here in Canada or in China? This is something that the government must take seriously.

I am looking at all the members who are here tonight, and there things that are important, but when it comes to our families, for many of us, that is the bottom line, and it changes everything. It is the fear and the love for our loved ones. How do we ensure that they are safe?

I look at what the Prime Minister said back in 2019, just sloughing it off, and months later, we find out that everything he had said was inaccurate. This is what concerns me today as we are having this debate. I fear that these same issues of “I didn't know” and “everything is false” may be the same situation here today. I think that is the big concern here.

I will go back to some information on this, but I would like to start with the fact that our Conservative critic for foreign affairs has done such an exemplary job. The member for Wellington—Halton Hills is extraordinarily respected in the House by not only members of his own caucus but also the individuals he comes across, whether stakeholders meeting with him on key issues, somebody chairing a committee or a minister being asked hard questions by the member. There is a respect because of the way he proceeds, holds himself and shows the value of what democracy really is.

The member shared with us the reason his family came to Canada, why they wanted to come and why his father chose to have a better life here in Canada. It is like so many other fathers and mothers who are descendants, and why so many people came to Canada to find a better life. Unfortunately, some of these bad actors and some of these things follow people. When we look at what happened to this member, we have to understand that it did not just happen to this member, but to the rest of the 337 of us as well.

I spoke to one of my colleagues who happened to be one of the 49 members who were also briefed on this defence and what was happening. He shared with me that, if he were to rate it, it was a one out of 10 when it came to security and safety and making him feel that it was a great threat. I think if someone had maybe provided more information to let people know who was being targeted, they would understand that this really was not a one out of 10. Perhaps for that member who had a similar briefing it was a one out of 10, but for the member for Wellington—Halton Hills, I do not think that is the case.

We have to look at the fact that the member for Wellington—Halton Hills stood up against Chinese influence on Canadian institutions. He has criticized the Prime Minister for cash-for-access fundraisers, which had been done with Chinese-Canadian businessmen. He has fought against the ties of the government, and the Prime Minister specifically, to the Chinese Communist Party. He has called for a stronger stance on human rights, trade violations and cybersecurity concerns, which are all related to China. When we start looking at this, it seems pretty clear why the member was targeted. It is because he is a man of principle, and he is a man who will stand up for those who cannot stand up for themselves.

This leads me to a concern, because one of the things he was bringing forward was genocide and things that are happening in China. From just a few months ago, I remember a member from the Liberal Party who was clearly so cheerful because his private member's bill had also gone through, and it targeted that. I do not know if that member of Parliament has been or is being targeted, but when we know this is happening to good people who are working for vulnerable people, we should assume it may be. This is where I am hoping the Prime Minister, the national security advisers and the cabinet will not just worry about politics, but about the people within their own caucus.

I do not know the situation there, but I really do fear what is going to happen to that member. Knowing that our own member was targeted, what is happening to the Liberal members in their own benches?

Let us go back to the questions and this timeline. Every day there are new questions about the federal government and how it handled the Chinese government's plot to target MPs. All of this came out, and we talk about the security briefing received by the member for Wellington—Halton Hills and the information that was provided by the Prime Minister just two days apart. It is very concerning. We have a Prime Minister who is saying he knew nothing, that CSIS did not release the document and that they did not see it as a big issue. Of course, I am not quoting right now, but that is the overall essence of it. However, we then have somebody, who came to give our member an intelligence report, who is saying the exact opposite the next day.

I am not indicating necessarily that the Prime Minister had read it. Although, as everybody has said in here, and as we have heard his chief of staff, Katie Telford, say, the Prime Minister reads everything. We have heard her say that. We must understand that, if there had been a briefing, he must have read it, because that is his job. This is not just because Katie Telford said so, but because his job as the Prime Minister is to read security briefings, not only because this is a democracy and he should be sure everybody is safe, but also because it is his job to ensure Canada is safe. If there is a security briefing that is coming in, he needs to take the time to read it.

All that was said last week continues to be contradicted, and I think we have to look at where this conversation started. Last Monday, I was watching everybody debate this, and we saw members of Parliament get up and not answer the questions. The minister for the government was not answering specific questions, and we could see that intensity. We know the government had to make a choice on what it was going to do, but two days later we actually saw its members double down.

I saw the compassion from some of those members on Monday, who recognized that one of their own colleagues in the House was targeted, but we watched the government members, two days later, double down, and all of its members and parliamentary secretaries were providing the same answer. That means they are working together to try to redirect this conversation, and the good work promised by some of the members over there had to be halted because it was against their political agenda. Those are things that concern me.

When we know that a person has been here and has targeted members of Parliament, why have they not been immediately removed? It took the government over a week, and as we have heard, it was not just a week, but two years and a week, because the government knew beforehand. However, we have to look at things that were also said in here, and if we are talking about democracy and coverups, we had the parliamentary secretary to the leader of the government in the House of Commons, Senate, state:

The member for Wellington—Halton Hills had a defence briefing on this two years ago, so he knew about this when it actually happened.

My question for the member is this. When did he find out about it? Did the member for Wellington—Halton Hills bring it to his attention at any time prior to the media doing so?

I am going back to a simple comment that was made by my colleague, who said that they were briefed, and it was like a one out of 10. If people are giving general information, that is a problem, and I think, when I hear from one member that it was just such an overlay, I understand. However, I know this person did not go forward and ask, but if the government was worried, why did it not do something about it? If it knew there was more, why did it not press go to try to start on foreign interference by looking into this?

I think it comes down to the fact that we have a Prime Minister who is so entangled with the Chinese government because of his admiration for that country that sometimes he cannot see right from wrong, because it is more about popularity and polling than it is about leading this great country. I feel sorry for some of the members I see over there who are having to applaud a Prime Minister who will not stand up for members of Parliament and will continue to wipe things away.

However, we have a Prime Minister who was part of cash-for-access fundraisers back in 2016. That all ties into the Trudeau Foundation and the money that was given from members of the Communist Chinese government via conduits so that the money could get in there and a statue of the Prime Minister's father. Those are all wonderful things. They are everything that is great to make an ego shine. That is what we are selling off. We are selling things off such as Canadian democracy for egos.

That is why I have a problem with this. I feel that we have not taken the Chinese government seriously for the last eight years. Throughout these question periods the government members have asked repeatedly, multiple times what our government did about it, and they have said that it did nothing about it. They and I know that, like Facebook since I joined in 2007, things have changed and things progress with IT and all of the things that are available to us in this world. Of course we have to narrow and change the ways that we are doing things.

Canada had a different relationship with China prior to the current government. Prior to the government's coming in, we always tried to work, but we were trying to build strong relationships where we both were separate and we had a sovereign democratic country for Canada. However, we do not see that with the Chinese government anymore.

With respect to the Huawei executive Meng Wanzhou, when somebody had said something bad, the Canadian ambassador to China made an inappropriate comment, and he was accused of being too cozy with the country's authoritarian government. We saw the firing of the ambassador to China happen because the Chinese government spoke up. When the Chinese government is not happy with what Canada does, it calls the Prime Minister and fires the Canadian ambassador. However, when this is happening with our own Canadian member of Parliament, we do not see the same thing occurring. These have to be discussed.

I want to continue, as we are discussing this, looking at the connection between this Prime Minister and the judgment that he is using throughout these cases. We have talked about the seriousness of these allegations and we have already talked about how people are not taking this seriously. That is so concerning. We saw fewer voters from the Chinese community come out in the last election because their democracy was stolen from them by foreign agents coming to their doors, knocking on their doors and advising them on whom they had to vote for. We know that people were targeted through group chats. It is not just our members of Parliament who are targeted, but it is Canadians who were being targeted in the last election.

We have people who were fearful of voting. That should never happen here in Canada. We understand that some countries tell people what to do. Here in Canada, we are supposed to be a country that has freedom of expression, freedom of speech and a democratic process. We know that in the last election that was not the case.

I appreciate this time. I will continue to fight for democracy. I will continue to fight for transparency and accountability from the current government, specifically on the case of the member for Wellington—Halton Hills, but I will fight for every Canadian who should be free of any interference from abroad.

[Ken McDonald, Liberal, Avalon, NL]

Madam Speaker, the member opposite's speech here this evening was very informative and very well put together. We keep hearing that there are 11 individuals who were in some way influenced or compromised or whatever in the 2019 election and the 2021 election. I do not know who those 11 are. I do not know if the member knows. However, the member who we do know was interfered with by threats from the Communist Party of China is the member for Wellington—Halton Hills. Does the member know who any of the others are? I, for one, would like to know who all 11 people are and to see exactly how they were compromised.

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

Madam Speaker, I appreciate the excellent question. That is what we should be asking. We know that there was interference. I can name three members. We have Nelly Shin, Kenny Chiu and Bob Saroya. They are three outstanding members of Parliament with whom we recognize that there was interference. There have been investigations done there.

Like this member, I am very concerned as well. We want to know who these other members are. We need to ensure that they are protected and that is something that I am hoping the government will wise up to.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Madam Speaker, I thank my colleague from Elgin—Middlesex—London for her speech. I truly appreciate this member. I think she is a sincere person who comes to work here for the right reasons, to represent the people in her riding.

She mentioned a gentleman whom I greatly respect, Kenny Chiu. I worked with him in the last Parliament. I have the impression that what happened to my friend Kenny is not being taken seriously on the government side, which is rather unfortunate. I think it is sad that the government is taking something like what happened to Kenny so lightly.

I think an independent public inquiry is absolutely essential, precisely so that these things are taken seriously. This will shed light on a few things, including what happened to Kenny Chiu, a very respectable former member of the House, a very sincere man who was here for the right reasons.

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

Madam Speaker, it is extremely important that there be an inquiry into this and that we get to the bottom of this.

Kenny Chiu deserved to be here. Voters have the right. There is democracy, but we know that there was a lot of influence that was going on, which changed the voter turnout. We need to work hard for all and, as we continue this, we need to work together. We need to all work together, because I do think they are not taking this as seriously as they should.

I do see some members across the way who do understand the importance of investigating this. I really do. I think of one of my friends who is from the Montreal area and I can imagine him being targeted because he is very open with his opinions. We should never fear that way. We should have the right to freedom of speech. When we disagree, we should not have a Chinese government interfering in our elections.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Madam Speaker, as members of the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs, we are doing a lot of work on looking at the multiple countries that are creating really strong systems of trying to interfere in other countries' elections. It is really concerning.

When we look at this particular case, one of the things that really concern me is that there is not a comprehensive response to really let the member know what is happening, the information that they need to know, and how that impacts not only them and their families in Canada but any family members they have who are in another country. This is such an important issue that we are dealing with right now.

I am wondering if the member could speak about what she would like to see happen in PROC and how we can deal with this in a more fulsome way, so that we get the outcomes that we need for all Canadians, especially for members of Parliament who are serving.

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

Madam Speaker, hold your boots, because the government actually did one thing right, very late, but the fact is that MPs need to know immediately, and that was something that the Prime Minister actually said. It is great that he said it. Now he needs to act on it.

The member for Wellington—Halton Hills should have a full briefing, knowing exactly what happened and understanding how his family was targeted. The other members in the chamber who have also been targeted must be ensured to be notified. I think it is really important that the procedure and House affairs committee is advised and that they have access to that information on what ridings were being targeted, to ensure that the process worked and to ensure that the safety of those members is secure. I think that has to be looked at.

If they targeted them back in 2021, what are they doing today? We do not know, so I think we all need to be on high alert.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Madam Speaker, foreign interference impacts many different communities in Canada. I know the member has a very close relationship with the Muslim community in her riding, and I have had a chance to visit the mosque there. The Muslim community has been targeted with foreign interference by the Chinese government when people have been involved in advocacy around the Uyghur issue.

I know there is a student club at McMaster University, which is not quite in her riding but maybe there are students from London who go there. The club was hosting an event to discuss the Uyghur genocide, and there was attempted interference by the Chinese consulate in Toronto, which was asking people to monitor who was there, to see if any university officials were there and if any international students were there, in an attempt to undermine this event or discourage people from attending it.

I wonder if the member could share just a bit more about what she is hearing from people in her riding about how these efforts to suppress the voices of people who are involved in human rights advocacy are impacting people from a diversity of communities in her riding and in the region.

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

Madam Speaker, I thank the member for sharing the story of what is happening at those universities. These are exactly the types of things we are hearing. People are being muzzled and they are not able to speak because they are fearful.

I think of all the students who go to Western University. We have a very large population of international students. I fear for their safety as well. These are things where it becomes a distrust. For Chinese Canadians, it has been one heck of a difficult time under the government. It has been made worse, and that is what I am hearing from the people I represent.

I have heard from a really wonderful man I have always been involved with, who has worked as part of the Chinese community. He shared with me his concerns, like COVID and the lack of us knowing, all those different things. There are a lot of trust issues with China and I think we had better open our eyes.

[Lori Idlout, NDP, Nunavut, NU]

Uqaqtittiji, I know that, in this case, there needs to be a fine balance between ensuring that parliamentarians get the information they need and making sure that national security is not put further at risk.

Can the member share how that fine balance can be used in this case?

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

Madam Speaker, I am going to put on my FEWO chair hat. We are able to take in information that is confidential. As a member of Parliament, I came to this place and took my oath. My oath is to this country, and that is what we are. When we are provided confidential documents, it is up to us to ensure that those documents are secure, that they are not shown out. I think there are different measures we can take to ensure that we do our job without having to break confidence.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Madam Speaker, it is a very concerning issue that we are dealing with here. Basically, it was an attack on one member of this Parliament.

This being an attack on one member of Parliament, is it viewed as an attack on all members of Parliament?

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

Madam Speaker, the answer is very simple: absolutely. When one member is being attacked, it is an attack on us all. I look at our relationship with the member of Parliament. There is a closeness we have when we work within caucuses. The discussions that we have are on a very different level when working with caucus members. We are trying to make sure there is good legislation and laws for Canadians. The impact to this member impacts us all. We know that if his leadership is squashed, it hurts the entire country.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Madam Speaker, I would like to begin by saying that I will be sharing my time with the hon. member for Lac-Saint-Jean.

Like my colleagues, I rise today to speak about China's interference in political and public affairs and the breach of privilege of a member of this House. Obviously, it is one member, but all of us are under attack in this situation.

I will try to make this quick because I understand that people are waiting to hear from my colleague from Lac-Saint-Jean, whose expertise is in great demand. I think that there are some things that need to be said.

As we know, for several years now, a number of expert reports have highlighted China's actions, going so far as to accuse it of interfering in the political affairs of several countries, including our own. There have been reports of cyber-attacks on Canadian government institutions, businesses and universities, as well as other suspicious activities, such as manipulating social media and disseminating disinformation.

There are Chinese police stations that are operating while the Prime Minister looks on. There have been debates in the House on the active participation of Chinese government agents in the federal election and the controversial $200,000 donation to the Trudeau Foundation, which raises many questions about how much the Prime Minister knew about these matters.

These activities are extremely disturbing and raise questions about the integrity of our democracy and our electoral processes. We cannot allow foreign powers, no matter how big or how influential, to interfere in our political affairs and disrupt our democratic process. The Liberal government has gone from being disconcertingly naive about the Chinese Communist regime to inexplicably inactive in the face of China's repeated attacks on our democracy.

The straw that broke the camel's back was The Globe and Mail article about a CSIS report from 2021 stating that the member for Wellington—Halton Hills and his family in Hong Kong were being threatened by a Chinese diplomat who was still in Canada. The member for Wellington—Halton Hills had just voted in favour of a motion condemning the genocide of the Uyghurs by the Communist Party of China.

These are all very serious allegations involving troubling information that could have a potential impact on our parliamentary duties. The Speaker's ruling on this matter is exemplary, and I agree with the conclusion that an entity like China intervening with retaliatory measures against an MP and his or her family represents an attack on our collective ability to carry out our parliamentary duties unimpeded.

That is simply unacceptable and must be condemned in the strongest possible terms. It is our duty to protect our democracy and defend our colleagues' privileges. We must work together to strengthen our national security and protect our democratic institutions from outside threats. We must also support our colleagues and give them the means to fulfill their democratic mandate without fear or intimidation.

The Bloc Québécois will vote in favour of this motion because it has already debated these issues favourably in the public arena. First, when it comes to the foreign agent registry, I will not list all of the opportunities that the government has had for serious reflection since the member for Wellington—Halton Hills moved a motion in 2020 concerning Huawei's involvement in Canada's 5G network. Obviously, time has proven him right.

The Bloc Québécois has expressed its support for an independent public commission of inquiry into foreign election interference. That position is shared by other opposition parties that think that the recent leaks about China's attempts to interfere in our elections require an independent public inquiry.

Former chief electoral officer Jean-Pierre Kingsley has expressed his support for such an inquiry. According to him, Canadians have the right to know everything about what happened, and the lack of a public inquiry will only prolong the consequences for those who were affected. Kingsley also rejected the argument that a public inquiry could compromise public safety. He stated that public safety is there to protect democracy, not the other way around.

The government has sought to put off a public inquiry for a long time citing public security concerns. However, that has not prevented many people, including the former director of CSIS, Richard Fadden, from joining in the call for a public inquiry.

Overall, it is clear that the calls for a public inquiry into foreign interference in elections are growing stronger. Canadians have the right to know if their democratic process is under threat from foreign actors and what steps their government is taking to protect democracy and the interests of their country.

Can we get the truth on the closure of the covert police stations in Canada and on the threats against people who return to China or who have family in China?

This is not the first report we have heard about persecution and repression of certain people who criticized the Chinese government or who were considered dissidents.

The Chinese government also brought in a social credit system that can affect people's ability to travel, find work and access certain services based on their behaviour and their political leanings. It is important to note that these operations are often carried out covertly and the information is often difficult to verify. However, there is enough evidence to suggest that these threats exist and that governments and citizens should be aware of these risks.

The government's attempts to lower the temperature and stonewall are eroding our confidence in it. Its handling of the expulsion of Chinese diplomat Zhao Wei has been embarrassing.

We must be proactive. We must take steps to strengthen our national security, and we must shield ourselves from foreign attacks. We must also continue to strengthen our ability to identify, report, monitor and counter cyber-attacks. They can be extremely difficult to detect and thwart, but we must be ready to face these threats and to protect our institutions against malicious attacks.

The case of the member for Wellington—Halton Hills raises a bigger problem in a world that is becoming more complex. With the growth of social networks, it is getting easier and easier for malicious people to target and harass elected officials, journalists and other public figures. The threats and attacks can be deeply disturbing and have real consequences for the safety of the individuals concerned. This is our cue to rethink our society and even our use of social media.

Increasingly, we tolerate threats because they are just threats. If we do not tolerate threats towards our colleague, we should not tolerate the threats we are subjected to on social media, either.

Our world is entering a new era. China may be using an old way of doing things right now, but new ways of influencing our elected officials will be found. They will become increasingly insidious. Our lives are showcased on social media. Hackers are finding new ways to go even further in getting data.

Just imagine. A fraudster can practically create a new identity for themselves using data leaked from a bank or government. If a member of Parliament is targeted, what impact will that fake identity have? How will a new power be able to influence elected officials?

I serve on the Standing Committee on Industry and Technology, and these are issues that must be discussed during our study of Bill C-27. We need to ask ourselves whether the government has really made all of the connections that need to be made between all of the laws in order to strengthen the protection of Quebeckers and Canadians.

When it comes to protecting ourselves from China, there is also the Investment Canada Act, which may not go far enough in protecting our vital areas, our supply chains. These are things that I have a lot of questions about.

With the arrival of even more powerful technologies, such as quantum computing, we know that a lot of our data is stored on servers and that China will not hesitate to check that data and use it against us, of course.

Consequently, and in conclusion, we have to equip ourselves with all the tools available to fight foreign interference. That starts with solidarity with the member for Wellington—Halton Hills.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Madam Speaker, as I look around, I have to wonder how seriously the government is taking Chinese interference here in Parliament. I think it is a serious issue. I wonder how seriously the government is taking it.

I have a question for my hon. colleague. How seriously does he think the Liberal caucus is taking what is going on with Chinese interference in our Parliament?