Debates of June 12th, 2023

Justice and Human Rights

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Madam Speaker, as it relates to the government's management of its legislative calendar, I think that is more a question the member can direct to his House leader. The government can call any bills that it wants at any time during Government Orders.

I understand that the House is going to be sitting until midnight to consider Government Orders. However, we are now in the rubric of motions, where members are able to move motions that are important to them. Clearly, it is important to use that time to move concurrence on committee reports that are important and deserve consideration in the House.

The committee, with the exception of NDP members, agreed on the importance of Bill C-41. It also, in that context, felt it was important to send this message condemning the Taliban, condemning the ongoing violence and emphasizing the need to continue to list it as a terrorist organization.

Therefore, it is important that the House make these two statements: It should state the importance of allowing in humanitarian and other forms of assistance, and it should also recognize that we should not, in any way, legitimize the Taliban's position in Afghanistan.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Madam Speaker, as the critic for status of women, I am obviously looking at this file from that perspective. In that capacity, I have been often approached about this report and the situation in Afghanistan.

The situation of women in Afghanistan remains very uncertain and extremely worrisome. I think we need to be extremely vigilant and monitor the situation on the ground very closely. There is humanitarian aid and ministerial authorization. In short, the international community is asking us to allow rights organizations to continue operating on the ground in Afghanistan so that they can monitor the situation of women closely and help advance their rights. Right now, it seems as though Afghanistan is back in the middle ages, where women are seen as being worth less than nothing. Their rights are seriously threatened. Personally, I have met people in my riding who are very worried about that.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Madam Speaker, I share the member's concerns about the situation of women in Afghanistan. I have appreciated having the opportunity to meet with Afghan women's organizations here in Canada and hear them share first-hand some of the things they are hearing. I salute the organizations in Canada that are working hard on behalf of women who are victims of gender apartheid.

We should be doing all we can to support democracy, women's rights and other groups working for the advancement of freedom. I think we also need to explore ways that we might be able to make educational resources available to women who still want to be able to access those resources in spite of the repression that exists. We may also explore other ways people can access those materials, while avoiding detection, in Afghanistan.

There is a lot of work that we need to do to support women in this situation. I want to encourage the House to remain seized with these events, to honour the commitments made in the past to Afghanistan and continue to be seized with these events going forward.

[Alex Ruff, Conservative, Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON]

Madam Speaker, I thank my colleague for providing me the opportunity today to do something that I have no problem doing, and that is bashing the Taliban. I have zero time for the Taliban regime. For those who may not be aware and might be listening today, I had the privilege to serve this country in uniform and spent 14 months of my life in Afghanistan.

I will offer what I have offered before. The Afghan people are no different from any other people around this world. They are no different from Canadians. They are people who just want to live in peace and have a chance to provide their families, relatives and friends with a better life. Unfortunately, under the Taliban, people, especially women and girls, do not have the same opportunity as those of us in the west and in Canada, in particular.

I want to share a bit history of Canada's involvement, my personal experiences and where we got things right and where we got things wrong. I honestly believe when Canada first got involved in Afghanistan shortly after 9/11, it was much needed. We needed to do something in a country that was harbouring terrorist organizations like al Qaeda that helped perpetrate the attack on 9/11. Canadians were, right from the get-go, in the Kandahar region, but, more importantly, there were Canadians involved in Kabul, the capital city, right from the beginning, trying to make fundamental changes to the way that country worked, by a mentoring and strategic advisory team that was in Kabul.

The focus was on that training for quite some time, until about the 2006 time frame, when the Canadian Armed Forces were then deployed and the Liberal government of the day decided it was time for Canada to step up and engage in the fighting that was going on in the south and, in particular, in the Kandahar region. Our Canadian Armed Forces soldiers did themselves and this country proud with the incredible service and sacrifices they made.

Around the 2011 time frame, we transitioned from the south, back up to Kabul, and focused our efforts and the Canadian contribution as part of the NATO training mission to again try to build institutional capacity. This was all while we were still fighting the Taliban and trying to create a situation of long-term success for the country and the people of Afghanistan. Canada then decided in 2014 to withdraw our Canadian soldiers on the ground, with the exception of a minor detachment that was still supporting our embassy. Ultimately, what we saw happen was the fall of Kabul and Afghanistan back to the Taliban in 2021.

Before I get into the specifics of that, though, I want to highlight the incredible sacrifices 158 Canadian soldiers and seven Canadian civilians made in that country. Some of them I knew very well and personally. I lost six of my own soldiers while I was there, and it was the crappiest day of my life. The only day that was tougher was when we were communicating news to family members after the fact. Unfortunately, we are still losing Canadians to this day because of that mission, due to post-traumatic stress and suicide, which are things we should be doing our darnedest to prevent.

I want to explain a little about who the Taliban are and why I have so much, dare I say, hatred for them and why Canada needs to do more in opposing that regime. As I mentioned already, cattle and sheep get better treatment than the women and girls in Afghanistan.

I moved my combat team in 2007 up to Ghorak to escort an Afghan army company up there to reinforce an Afghan national police outpost. We got there about 24 hours too late because a young, seven- or eight-year-old boy and his father were beheaded and hanged 24 hours earlier because they dared to provide local food and bread to those Afghan police forces.

This is a Taliban regime and if girls try to go to school, they get acid thrown in their face in the streets. They do not respect human rights. This is why I have no problem speaking out against them. This is why the motion is so pertinent today.

The member for Shefford identified the issue of Afghanistan going backwards. I could not agree more. This is why this motion is pertinent to be brought forward and debated today in the House, and why I thank the committee for actually moving this motion. It does allow us to continue to bring attention to the horrific issues that are going on in Afghanistan.

What happened in 2021 is where, again, we saw the fall of Kabul. Instead of us, as a country, focusing all efforts to get those Afghans out, especially those Afghans who helped Canada, in a timely fashion, unfortunately, the government of the day was more focused on calling an election and campaigning, and was not focused on putting all our assets forward.

What really irritates me even more is the signals, the intelligence that was publicly available months and months ahead of what happened in August 2021. As soon as the U.S. government signalled they were going to withdraw their support, there were indications that this was likely going to happen. There are a lot of experts out there who predicted that maybe it was not going to happen as quickly as it did, however, the signs were there and we needed to do more, sooner.

I am frustrated even to this day. I have the privilege to work with members across all parties. We have been working since last October to get former Afghan women members of Parliament out of that country. We started that initiative last October. Unfortunately, we needed to go public in January of this year, because one of those women, a former MP, was killed, just because she represents everything that the Taliban detests. Again, this is why it is so important that we continue to do more.

I have had frank and honest conversations with the Minister of Immigration and I believe his heart is in the right place, but we are not doing enough. Canada is committed to bringing 40,000 Afghans to Canada. I think we are at around the 30,000 mark now. I am still critical that the efforts are in the wrong place, they are on Afghans who have already gotten out of Afghanistan. They are not focused on those who are still stuck in that country, and their situation is getting worse by the day.

We have former Afghans, who have helped Canada and who are here in Canada, who are literally protesting out in the streets this past week and in weeks past, because they cannot get their family out. The bureaucracy behind it drives me nuts.

I just want to say that Canada continues to need to do more. It cannot just be about keeping the Taliban listed as a terrorist organization. As the member for Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, who spoke before me, mentioned, we have a government that refuses to list some organizations as terrorist organizations. However, in the end, that is not enough.

We need to do more to put pressure on the Taliban regime to respect human rights, to respect women and girls. If we do not do that, things will continue to slide in the opposite direction.

I will conclude. I do have hope. I have hope that, thanks to the better parts of almost two decades of Afghan women and girls getting educated and seeing that they have a better hope for the future, one of them, one day, would be back in Afghanistan, leading that country. Maybe we will see a day in the not-too-distant future where Afghanistan is a democracy.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Madam Speaker, my colleague gave an interesting overview of the issue. He talked about post-traumatic stress disorder, an issue I have been interested in since the early 2000s. He also talked about the Canadian government's commitment to Afghan interpreters.

In the summer of 2021, I discovered a large Afghan community in Shefford. Afghan men came to my office asking me to do something because their wives and daughters were being threatened. They feared for their sisters and aunts left behind in Afghanistan.

Women who practise certain professions related to image or appearance, such as cosmetics, are receiving outright death threats. Anything that contributes to portraying women as having greater freedom is condemned. All the previously won rights in Afghanistan are being rolled back.

I would like my colleague to comment on the Canadian government's commitment to these interpreters and the consequences for the women and girls left behind in Afghanistan.

[Alex Ruff, Conservative, Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON]

Madam Speaker, I talked about that at length. That is the challenge. The Afghans do not treat women and girls to the same level as everybody else. They literally will put controls in place. We have seen in the last year alone, that they took away the right for elementary-school-aged girls to go to school and, as we just saw the last six months, all university education opportunities for women to be educated in the least.

The good news is that there are still women getting educated. I am well aware of this, through contacts at education, training and opposition and protests going on.

I have a final, quick comment. I do not know if it was the member or maybe the translator, but afghani is the currency in Afghanistan, not the people. It is always “Afghan”. Use the term “Afghan”, not “afghani”.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Madam Speaker, as the member indicated, one of the issues that I certainly have a lot of problems with, in terms of the government's inaction, is Afghans who served Canada, who helped Canada to fulfill its missions, now have been left behind. Particularly, their family members and their loved ones have been left behind.

The government put in an arbitrary quota for the number of Afghans who can be brought to Canada, to safety.

Would the member support the NDP's call for the government to lift the cap?

[Alex Ruff, Conservative, Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON]

Madam Speaker, the short answer is: absolutely. I do not think it should be about numbers. I spoke about how we are focused on the wrong things. What I am scared of is that the government turns around, hits that cap, that quota of 40,000 Afghans, and then it shuts it off.

In the end, we need to get those Afghans who are at the greatest risk, those who helped Canada, who helped the west and who are still stuck in Afghanistan, out. We have got to be committed to that.

As a nation, if we want to be able to leverage local populations, and to have interpreters, cultural workers, people who will help us when we deploy either our military, our diplomats or our non-government organizations around the globe, they need to trust that, by them stepping forward and helping us, when they are in trouble, we are going to be willing to help them.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Public Safety]

Madam Speaker, the hon. member knows that this motion was passed at the justice committee, right after we passed Bill C-41, and today we were able to pass that bill here in the House.

I wonder if the hon. member could talk about the importance of getting aid into Afghanistan, because not everybody can leave, and how important it is for that bill to get passed.

[Alex Ruff, Conservative, Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON]

Madam Speaker, I totally agree. That is the challenge. To be frank, and I have said this in the House before, I was split on Bill C-41, because I know that some of the money is going to end up in the Taliban's hands. It is the nature of the beast. The world is a complicated place and that is why I actually have concerns with it. I know I disagree with some of my colleagues who have been working on these efforts behind the scenes, who do not think that the bill goes far enough in providing safeguards that the government has put in place.

Ultimately, we do need to do it. That is why I voted in support of it but we need to get that aid in. At the same time, it cannot be getting overly abused and misused. That is the challenge here. It is a messy situation. I really feel we could have done more sooner and I really wish the west had never pulled out completely, because, ultimately, this is an example of where we, as the west, failed. We need to do more in the future.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons (Senate)]

Madam Speaker, I will be sharing my time this evening with the member for Scarborough—Rouge Park.

For those who might be tuning in, we are now on a concurrence motion that falls under Routine Proceedings in the House. Conservatives have chosen to put forward a motion that will basically consume about three hours' worth of the debate time today on this particular committee report.

Normally when these come forward, they are for reports that perhaps were contentious or perhaps had a lot of committee disagreement on how to proceed. Usually those end up on the floor of the House and consume about three hours' worth of debate. Then a question is put on the motion.

However, with this particular motion, I do not think that there will be much debate because my understanding is that everybody within the committee agreed to this motion. It is certainly something that seems extremely reasonable. It is something that has come out of the committee. In the interests of those who might be watching, it is the 12th report of the Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights, specifically on the study of the Taliban regime and human rights. As it is just one or two sentences, I will read the committee report to the House in its entirety. It reads:

That the committee report to the House that it firmly denounces the Taliban and rejects any recognition or legitimization of their control over Afghan territory. In particular, the committee denounces the Taliban system of gender discrimination, systemic violence targeting minority communities, reprisals against former members of the Afghan National Security and Defence Forces, attacks on freedom of the press, and other violations of fundamental human rights. The committee believes that the Taliban must remain a listed terrorist organization.

As I indicated moments ago, my understanding is that the entire committee voted in favour of this. Now that this has been brought forward as a motion, I anticipate that all members of the House will likely be voting in favour of it. It is even more perplexing, I guess I could say, coming on the heels of the fact that we just voted on Bill C-41, and Bill C-41 is an act to specifically empower the Minister of Public Safety, the Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada and the Minister of International Development to have the ability to allow funds to flow into Afghanistan, in particular those that are aimed at supporting humanitarian needs and the people who really need those funds.

That is something that passed in the House. We heard the member for Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound say a few moments ago that he thought at times it might go too far, whereas others in the House thought that it did not go far enough. However, it sounds like it was a very collegial discussion and debate, and that a genuine consensus was formed at committee where they could adopt the report but still have this important caveat added to it so it came through as a report from a committee to the House.

I genuinely think that the democratic process was served very well in how this report got to the House. I am a little bit more concerned or confused that we have this motion to concur it in right now, given that we know there was very little disagreement over it, notwithstanding the fact that it is a very important issue. It is also an issue that is very well identified within the report that is being concurred in now.

As we heard a number of discussions about the supports going to the Afghan people, we did just pass Bill C-41. This report basically came to the House at the same time. Bill C-41 is a bill that:

amends the Criminal Code in order to create a regime under which the Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness may authorize an eligible person to carry out, in a geographic area that is controlled by a terrorist group and for certain purposes, activities that otherwise would be prohibited under paragraph 83.‍03(b) of that Act (which becomes subsection 83.‍03(2)). It also makes consequential amendments

To put it in context, there is, for obvious good reasons, limits to where public money can flow. In particular, we have very stringent rules around it getting into the hands of those terrorist organizations. We certainly do not ever want to see that happen, but we also respect the fact that there are a number of organizations that are providing humanitarian needs in certain parts of the world that might need to have access to money to support the work they are doing, which genuinely drives that humanitarian effort. This is what Bill C-41 would do, and it was the genesis behind Bill C-41.

I am very pleased to see that the bill passed through the House earlier today. I think it gives us an opportunity to reflect, perhaps, but I hope this does not have to go on for the entire three hours. I will keep my comments short, but I genuinely do believe that we need to move forward with some of the other very important pieces of legislation that we have before the House today. Therefore, I hope that we can come to a conclusion on this particular concurrence motion relatively quickly so that we can move along.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Madam Speaker, the issue around Afghans and bringing them to safety is something that is top of mind for many of us. In fact, just outside of West Block, there is an individual whose family members are being left behind. He was someone who served Canada, but is still not able to bring his loved ones here.

The government put a cap on the number of Afghans, who had helped serve Canada to complete our missions. As a result, many people have not been able to bring their loved ones to safety. Would the member support the call that the government should lift that arbitrary cap that it put in place?

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Madam Speaker, I heard this question being asked of my Conservative colleague before me.

I recognize that my NDP colleague refers to it as an “arbitrary cap”. However, I do not know that to be a fact. I do not believe that the government would just arbitrarily pick a number out of a hat. I imagine that there is some logic to it and some thought that went into it.

Having said that, I certainly support doing as much as we absolutely can in getting as many people out as we absolutely can. If there is the availability to do more than what we have been able to do at this point, then I would certainly support that. I do respect that the government makes decisions based on various reasons and, notwithstanding that I have not heard all of the reasons, I will prevent myself from commenting too much on exactly where I believe that number should be without having heard all of the arguments.

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Madam Speaker, I want to ask the member a procedural question because I know that he is quite active in the legislative process.

We were supposed to debate Bill C-40, which is an important bill. We call it David and Joyce Milgaard's law as it is meant to review convictions for those who were wrongly convicted. I am wondering what kind of an impact a motion like this, at this late hour, would have on this bill.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Madam Speaker, I guess my biggest concern is what other tactics the Conservative have lined up. We know from last week that they said they would do whatever they could to prevent the budget from going through. Typically speaking, and I really hope this is not the case with such a sensitive and important issue like this, when the opposition puts forward a concurrence motion, it is done under the guise of trying to delay the House and the work that the House has to do.

I really hope that is not the case, and I take it at face value that it is not the reason the member for Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan brought it forward. However, knowing that we all agree with it, I also really hope that we can vote on it quickly and then get back to the regular business of the House.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Madam Speaker, this motion deals with the listing of a terrorist organization, the Taliban, and highlights that, in the context of recognizing the need for special provisions to bring in humanitarian assistance, we also need to be firm in denouncing the Taliban. It is saying that, while we want to find ways of getting humanitarian assistance in, the Taliban needs to continue to be a listed terrorist organization.

At the same time, there are other organizations that the House has called on the government to list that it has not listed, and I am thinking particularly of the IRGC. It has been five years since the House voted to list the IRGC. The passage of Bill C-41 may, from the perspective of the government, remove a potential impediment. Is the government open to now moving forward with listing the IRGC as a terrorist organization, as it voted to do five years ago?

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Madam Speaker, I read out the entire motion in my speech. I am not sure if the member heard it.

I am fully aware of what it is. It is a report that really only contains two sentences. I support it, and I understand that all committee members support it. I understand that this was one of the ways that Conservatives were able to come around to supporting the bill. That is important. The committee did its work and worked collaboratively together to find common ground where everybody could accept what the committee was doing and report it back.

The member wants me to comment on some hypotheticals he is proposing. I will wait for the government and those who are following up on this and who are responsible to make the various recommendations. We will then make our decisions at that point.

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Madam Speaker, I am here to speak on the concurrence report with respect to the Taliban.

This afternoon I was very pleased to see Bill C-41 pass in this House. It is a very important bill, one that many people have been working on for several months. Most notably, it is something that the justice committee has been working on for the last several weeks.

I believe Bill C-41 is a very important step toward ensuring that those in Afghanistan are supported through the many incredible aid agencies that work in the region, including organizations that have an international span as well as those that are regional. I think it is an important step toward supporting Afghanistan in this moment.

With respect to the Taliban, I think it is very clear that it is an organization that offends many aspects of human rights. I can enumerate the various challenges the Taliban poses, not just to the people of Afghanistan but also to the world. It is an organization that is brutal in its force. It is one that has summarily killed so many people. It is one that limits access to education for women. It certainly limits dissent of any sort, and by no means is it democratic. For it to form government in Afghanistan is deeply troubling and deeply problematic.

The reasons that the Taliban are there today are historical. In part, it is because the west just left overnight. I think history will judge that as a failure of the western world. In many ways, we can go back in history and say that the region of Afghanistan is one that has been impacted by colonialism over the centuries. In the last 50 or 60 years, it has been impacted by the Cold War. In this particular case, the departure of the United States in August 2021 certainly enabled the Taliban to take hold of Afghanistan and cause it to regress back into an autocratic state that violates the human rights of its citizens.

Canada's response, it is fair to say, has been quite challenging, in part because of the complexity of the government structure in Afghanistan, which limited our ability to bring people out, but I am very pleased to see that the number of Afghans who have been resettled in Canada over time is in excess of 35,000 people. I think it is a remarkable number, given that this is probably the second-highest number of resettlements we have ever done, the first one being the Syrians right after we formed government in 2015.

I would say Canada is among the top countries in the world to resettle so many Afghans. Of course, there are good reasons for that. Apart from the presence of many family members here and the needs of those Afghans who were directly supporting the Government of Canada, there is a humanitarian reason that this type of resettlement is so critical. Resettling 35,000 within a period of under two years is a remarkable achievement. It may not seem fair to those who may be languishing in different parts of the world or those who are struggling to get out and rightfully should be able to come to Canada. It may seem frustrating that we took two years to do that.

I can give some examples. This morning, I had a call with my office. We do a weekly meeting at 9:00 a.m. every Monday to talk about casework. One of the cases approved today was a resettlement of a group of five Tamil refugees. They had been in India for the last 13 years. This application took 13 years to process. That is the nature of many cases in the resettlement process, although Canada is the number one resettlement country in the world for refugees.

Notwithstanding that, it was a 13-year process, and we can understand how difficult it is for people like that to resettle, especially those who are fleeing conflict. While the two-year mark may seem long, in the broader sense, it is important for Canada and our government to achieve. There is no doubt that we will achieve the 40,000 mark as set out by the Minister of Immigration, as he enumerated a number of different times. We have seen people arrive at our airports and planes full of Afghan refugees who have come here and are settled. I have met many over the last two years and I have met family members of my friends who have come here as part of the resettlement. It is fair to say that Canada is doing its part and is doing its part disproportionate to our involvement in Afghanistan. It is the right thing to do, and I certainly support the government's efforts. I want to reiterate that I am deeply offended by the Taliban and all that it stands for.

Having said all of this, this is a concurrence motion that forms part of a report from the justice and human rights committee, one that is five lines and is quite simple. It basically denounces the Taliban regime, the Taliban administration and the Taliban itself. As such, we generally have unanimous consent from all parties on this language that was passed by committee. I certainly hope it does not take us a full four hours to have the debate here. I would suggest at this point that we go on to what was in the Order Paper and debate Bill C-40.

If I may, I will highlight why it is so important that Bill C-40 be debated and passed. It is a priority bill for the government. Over the past 30 years or so, it is an issue that has offended Canadians, which is that those who may be wrongfully convicted are spending time in jail and unfortunately have no recourse, or the recourse that is available through the process of ministerial relief is quite arduous. We know the Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada has outlined the frustration he has faced during his tenure as minister in reviewing those cases.

It is important that we debate this bill and ensure the justice and fairness for which Canada is known and ought to be known. One of the reasons that people of all backgrounds come to Canada would be reiterated through the passage of this bill and would ensure that there is an outlet available for people to seek redress when they are wrongfully convicted. This is not about opening the doors—

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, NDP, Carol Hughes]

The hon. member for Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot is rising on a point of order.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Madam Speaker, I rise on a point of order.

The interpretation is not working.

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, NDP, Carol Hughes]

Is it working?

It is working now. The hon. parliamentary secretary.

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Rouge Park, ON]

Madam Speaker, let me conclude by saying that it is quite important for this House to debate Bill C-40. I know the Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada started the debate today. We would have preferred constructive debate from the Conservatives, which we saw at the outset. I know that both the Bloc and the NDP would also constructively contribute to this very important discussion. It is one I believe we have consensus on and can build on to better the bill as we move it forward. It is paramount that those who are languishing in prisons right now who may be wrongfully convicted have the possibility of a review process that would enable them to have an independent arbiter who can speak to the original case itself.

With that, with the disappointment I expressed for the delay, I want to reiterate my support for this motion and also ask that we move to other business at some point, as soon as possible.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Madam Speaker, I thank the parliamentary secretary for his comments, but I do think this is an important debate. Of course, the House will be continuing debate until midnight, so the government will have an opportunity to bring forward Government Orders. This is a motion that is important to discuss.

I want to ask the member about testimony we heard from representatives of the National Resistance Front. There are various opposition groups and pro-democracy groups that are organizing right now and are looking for support. They are also hoping and expecting that the Taliban may collapse sooner than people expect.

I wonder if the parliamentary secretary could share the government's position on engaging with and supporting these various opposition groups.

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Rouge Park, ON]

Madam Speaker, I can assure the member that our government will always support democratic movements and will always support democracies around the world and those that are emerging as democracies.

I think Canada is known for this over the modern history of Canadian foreign diplomacy. It has been a paramount component of our foreign policy. I know that in many countries, as we speak, we are supporting the voices of dissent and the voices of democracy that continue to inspire us and that continue to inspire the world. We know that democracy is the way towards the future and we will continue to support those voices.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Madam Speaker, I have enjoyed working with my hon. colleague on a number of different things and I want to echo his concerns. I was prepared to debate Bill C-40 today. I think it is very important legislation and something that we really should be discussing at this point.

I also want to go back to some of the discussions the member brought forward with regard to Bill C-41. The member would know that I did not vote in support of this bill for the simple reason that I find that there are some real challenges to this legislation. As much as we were able to work together with members of his party and members of other parties to fix parts of this bill, there are still some really outstanding challenges within the bill that I think make it difficult for civil society organizations and non-profit organizations to work within. It is overly bureaucratic, of course, and has some big challenges on definitions.

One of my big concerns is around the potential for politicization, knowing that a future government could use this legislation to act punitively towards the charitable sector and the international development sector. Does the member have those same concerns? Would he like to comment on that?