House of Commons Hansard #211 of the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was hybrid.

Topics

Government Business No. 26—Amendments to the Standing OrdersGovernment Orders

9:10 p.m.

Liberal

Iqra Khalid Liberal Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON

Mr. Speaker, in my role as the chair of the women's caucus, I can tell the House that this conversation has been ongoing for many years. The government has tried very hard to ensure that all parties come to the table on this. It is really unfortunate that this issue is being used as partisan politics. I am looking forward to everybody's collaboration to ensure that this Parliament is open and accessible to our constituents, to all Canadians, while ensuring that we are able to work effectively as members of Parliament.

Government Business No. 26—Amendments to the Standing OrdersGovernment Orders

9:10 p.m.

Conservative

John Nater Conservative Perth—Wellington, ON

Mr. Speaker, one of the provisions in the proposed Standing Orders is that committee chairs must be in person to preside over committee meetings.

My question to the member is as follows: Is this a vote of non-confidence in the member for Vancouver Centre and her ability to chair the heritage committee?

Government Business No. 26—Amendments to the Standing OrdersGovernment Orders

9:10 p.m.

Liberal

Iqra Khalid Liberal Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON

Mr. Speaker, that is a very strange question. It reminds me of the time, a couple of years ago, when the Liberal government was trying to present our budget bill. Members of that party started to bang on their desks, in a very loud way, and then marched right out the door after making some kind of deal with the Speaker to which I am not privy.

It is about good faith. It is about ensuring that we are here for our constituents and that we are doing the work that Canadians expect us to do without being full of drama about it. I encourage the party opposite to reduce its drama.

Government Business No. 26—Amendments to the Standing OrdersGovernment Orders

9:10 p.m.

Liberal

Bardish Chagger Liberal Waterloo, ON

Mr. Speaker, first of all, I want to thank the member for taking us through some of the tougher memories since 2015.

The member spoke about change with purpose. I think about 2015, when our government was elected and we had gender parity at the cabinet table. It really did allow others to look within their organizations and businesses to say that they needed to actually think about gender. A lot of the steps we take within these institutions actually do encourage the rest of our country to progress as well.

I would like to hear the member's comments as to whether she sees this as an opportunity for the government to lead, and for all of us to work together to lead, so that others could also understand it. In the riding of Waterloo, we are the hub of innovation; we will always embrace technology, but the House of Commons has not always been that place.

Government Business No. 26—Amendments to the Standing OrdersGovernment Orders

9:15 p.m.

Liberal

Iqra Khalid Liberal Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON

Mr. Speaker, quite frankly, if we are not working with the times, then we are stagnant.

I really think that change for the sake of change is not always positive, but change to make sure that our constituents, Canadians, are well represented is the best way we could work together and ensure that our country is moving forward.

Industry leads; government sets the example. By doing this, by ensuring that hybrid Parliament is a functioning system for our democracy, we are setting an example not only for industry, for the gig economy, but also across the world for emerging democracies.

Government Business No. 26—Amendments to the Standing OrdersGovernment Orders

9:15 p.m.

Liberal

Patrick Weiler Liberal West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC

Mr. Speaker, it is an honour to rise this evening in the House to join the debate on Government Business No. 26, which seeks to make permanent the changes to the Standing Orders to allow members of Parliament to participate virtually in the work we do in this place. This motion is an important step forward in the evolution of our democracy, to make sure we are keeping with the times.

I am part of the class of 2019, as I was elected in October of that year. For me, Parliament was in session for only about six weeks before the pandemic hit, so I was just getting the sense of how the business in this place operates when that hit. Then the COVID pandemic threw everything for a loop. We had to learn how to do the business of this place but be able to respect the public health guidelines we were given, which prevented us from travelling across the country and prevented us from gathering in large groups.

Therefore, at that time, we embarked on a new innovation that allowed us to participate virtually by creating a special version of Zoom. It would allow us to participate in a way that respected those public health guidelines but still do our important work where we would be able to deliver speeches by Zoom, participate as members of committees, and have witnesses in our committees participate by Zoom as well. We also were able to vote on important pieces of legislation. What we originally developed was actually not very efficient. We each had to say on Zoom what our vote was, but eventually we actually developed an application which utilizes facial recognition so that we are now able to vote anywhere in our country in sometimes 10 seconds or less. This is a very important innovation, to my mind.

The experience has shown that virtual Parliament worked. We were able to get very important work done over the course of the pandemic to deliver help to Canadians in some of the most dire straits. We were rapidly learning what the impacts of COVID were, and we were making an iterative response to make sure the programs we were rolling out were fit for purpose.

Since the public health guidelines have changed and we have been able return en masse to this place, we have kept these provisions as an addition to the work we do in this place, and that is very important to add here because there are very clear benefits to our being able to participate virtually when we need to. For instance, if there is an emergency, particularly a family emergency, members are able to be there with some of their loved ones in some of their most difficult states. Multiple members of Parliament have given birth just in the last year, and this has allowed them to continue to do their work as MPs while being at home with their newborn child. In addition, something that was very much highlighted during the pandemic is that those who are in poor health or are sick do not need to travel to be here. It means that they are not potentially exposing other people if they are contagious, or putting themselves in a very risky position. I have heard a number of the previous speakers mention some names of members of Parliament here, and I do want to just mention our late colleague, the Hon. Jim Carr, who, with a terminal condition, was able to participate virtually, right up until the end of his life. That bears mentioning because he brought so much wisdom to this place and I learned a lot from him personally.

Another benefit I would mention about this system is that it allows members to be in their constituencies more and to do more constituency work. A very important part of our job as parliamentarians is to make sure we can be there and listen to the concerns people have and be able to advocate for their priorities. To be able to do that, it is important to actually connect with people in our constituency so that when we come to this place, we are able to advance those priorities. Many of us in this place have ridings with large populations. For me, it is 131,000 people, and there are many other members of Parliament who have even more constituents and represent large areas that are sometimes very difficult to get to.

It is important that we be able to connect with folks so we do not get too caught up in the Ottawa bubble here and become detached from the realities people are facing. That work as a constituency member of Parliament is very important, as is just being there at events, so people can feel close to their government and so members are able to be more responsive.

There are significant costs to the pre-existing system we have, where everybody is here in person. A number of members previously have talked about how the size of our country, the largest democracy in the world and the second-largest country in the world, presents some major challenges. Just the time to get here from our constituencies can be immense. At the best of times, it takes me eight hours, point to point, to get here. In the last two weeks I have missed connections, which meant I had to stay overnight in places along the way. Some other members have talked about it taking 24 hours to get here, so time is a cost. There is also a monetary cost every time we travel here; it can be in the thousands of dollars for a round trip for folks to get here.

There are health issues, particularly for some of our more vulnerable colleagues, when we are doing 26 round trips a year, particularly if we have a time zone change. For me, it is a three-hour time difference, which does take its toll as well. There are also the environmental impacts. I calculated that, for every round trip I do to Ottawa, there are 1.2 tonnes of greenhouse gases emitted, so I think we all need to be mindful of that. Then, of course, there are the opportunity costs when we are not able to be in our community as well.

One thing that I do not think has been mentioned so far in the debate today is the cost it has on families. I have seen some statistics that have shown that members of Parliament have a divorce rate of 85%. It is not hard to see why. With so many of my colleagues I have talked to, I have seen the stress it puts on relationships when they are not able to be with their family for half of the year. I think this is something we also need to take into account, because it discourages many people from getting involved in this kind of work, particularly for young families or young couples expecting to have a family. The challenge of the amount of time we need to be here, which is sometimes 130 days of the year, is a huge challenge in getting more of the people involved in this type of work whom we really need to get involved.

I do not want to say I am advocating for all virtual, because there are very real benefits to people's being here. As the government House leader for the Conservative Party mentioned, being able to talk to a minister and get something solved is much easier when one is able to walk to their desk and have that conversation. We are not, if all virtual, able to develop the informal relationships that are so key to making this work effectively, whether with other members of Parliament from other parties, with senators, bureaucrats or other stakeholders.

It is really important that, when we are giving speeches, we be in this place, because the impact when we are able to see how it is landing with somebody is very different than reading something on the screen, so I think there should be guidelines for the use of the system. I think it is a very important tool we have. All members should seek to be here far more in person than virtually, and the experience to date has shown that the vast majority of MPs are doing just that. The questions and answers in question period should be done in person. I know a few other members have brought this up previously, but the experience has been that ministers are here answering questions, which is very key for accountability.

I very much support this motion, which creates the conditions for us to be more effective MPs and better people, more energetic in the work we do as well. It has very clear benefits when it is done in a judicious way, and the experience to date has shown that it has been used in just that way.

Government Business No. 26—Amendments to the Standing OrdersGovernment Orders

9:25 p.m.

Conservative

John Nater Conservative Perth—Wellington, ON

Mr. Speaker, I will ask the member for West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country a similar question to the one I asked the previous speaker.

These provisions provide that a chair must preside in person. Does the member agree that the chair of a committee ought to preside in person, and is that a reflection on the absolute gong shows that we have seen at some committees where members have not presided in person?

Government Business No. 26—Amendments to the Standing OrdersGovernment Orders

9:25 p.m.

Liberal

Patrick Weiler Liberal West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC

Mr. Speaker, I think being there in person can make the job of a committee chair a lot easier. It is not impossible to do it virtually, but they do need to have help on the ground to see how people are motioning and whether there is agreement in the room. I do not think it is absolutely necessary, but I have seen some chairs who are able to do it very well and some not as well. I think that, ideally, we would have chairs in person. My experience has been that it makes it a much smoother process.

Government Business No. 26—Amendments to the Standing OrdersGovernment Orders

9:25 p.m.

Bloc

Yves Perron Bloc Berthier—Maskinongé, QC

Mr. Speaker, I found the end of my colleague's speech rather interesting. According to him, we should be present in the House to give speeches. When we are here to give a speech, it is nice when there are people here to listen. Since I know we are not allowed to mention the presence or absence of members in the House, I will not do so, but I think people get my drift.

The member said that there should be guidelines and that members should attend question period in person. However, there are no guidelines for those situations. To date, I have seen only one guideline, and that is that the opposition needs to have 25 members present in person in the House to block government motions, while government members are free to vote remotely on confidence motions.

Does the member not find that to be a major power imbalance? It seems as though this motion was moved without consulting the real opposition parties, because it is an initiative of the NDP-Liberal coalition. I do not understand why the NDP is supporting this motion, because it will reduce their power.

Does this imbalance not make the member uncomfortable? Is he not open to really working together across party lines and creating a real, serious working committee to oversee these changes?

We are not opposed to every aspect of hybrid Parliament. We agree with many of them, but we think that what is being proposed is not balanced enough. I would like him to elaborate on that.

Government Business No. 26—Amendments to the Standing OrdersGovernment Orders

9:25 p.m.

Liberal

Patrick Weiler Liberal West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC

Mr. Speaker, I think that is one of the reasons we are having this debate this evening. When we started using this system, we had unanimous consent. To do our job, we need to hear the different perspectives and allow everyone to contribute to the debate.

I agree that it is very important that the ministers be here to answer questions. I am here to listen to the member speak about what he would like to do with this motion. I think that we can find solutions by having discussions.

Government Business No. 26—Amendments to the Standing OrdersGovernment Orders

9:25 p.m.

NDP

Lindsay Mathyssen NDP London—Fanshawe, ON

Mr. Speaker, I have spent a lot of time trying to get young women to enter this place and get involved in politics, and often they have a lot of questions about a lot of things, like the toxicity of social media, the time requirements, their ability to take care of their kids and the work-life balance. One of the things I tell them about, which I have to say is unfortunate because hybrid is not confirmed, is what hybrid has allowed a lot of women to do in the House to do this job. It is an incredibly important voice that women bring to this place. It is not just women, but all people of different equity-seeking groups.

Could the member talk more about that and how hybrid can help?

Government Business No. 26—Amendments to the Standing OrdersGovernment Orders

9:30 p.m.

Liberal

Patrick Weiler Liberal West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC

Mr. Speaker, indeed, that was one of the points I brought up in my speech. Hybrid allows for some of that flexibility, and we do need to get more women and more people from equity-seeking groups here in this place. Right now, for the first time ever, we have 100 women represented here. We need to find ways to encourage more people to be here, and if some of these issues are preventing that, we need to have an honest look at it, because when we do that we improve our democracy and get those important voices heard in this place.

Government Business No. 26—Amendments to the Standing OrdersGovernment Orders

9:30 p.m.

Conservative

John Nater Conservative Perth—Wellington, ON

Mr. Speaker, it is always a privilege and an honour to rise in this House, but I do so today on Government Business No. 26 with some degree of disappointment. There is disappointment because we are debating a motion that does not have the consensus of this House of Commons. It does not have the consensus of the recognized parties. The government and the government alone is trying to unilaterally change the accepted rules of this place without the consensus of all parties.

When provisions for hybrid Parliament were first introduced in this place, they were done so as a temporary measure so that members could participate in the proceedings of Parliament at a time when travelling and gathering in large groups were not permitted due to the challenges of the COVID-19 pandemic. They were never considered a long-term change to how we conduct business as a House of Commons.

The proposed changes being debated today are not in the interests of Canada's Parliament. I am reminded of the words of a great Nova Scotian, one of the great parliamentarians of his generation, the Right Hon. Bob Stanfield, from Truro, Nova Scotia. I know the Speaker is a proud Nova Scotian. Bob Stanfield, in a memo to his caucus, focused on the importance of certain institutions, certain principles among parliamentarians, that we ought to hold dear. He wrote, “Not only is it unnecessary for political parties to disagree about everything, but some acceptance of common ground among the major parties is essential to an effective and stable democracy. For example, it is important to stability that all major parties agree on such matters as parliamentary responsible government and major aspects of our Constitution.”

In the past, that has been accepted. It has been accepted among all political parties and different political parties that when major changes are made to how we operate as a Parliament, as a House of Commons, it is done with a common understanding among parliamentarians. Indeed, during the Harper majority government, a process like this was led by then parliamentary secretary Tom Lukiwski, who ensured that the multiple major changes made to our Standing Orders were made with the consensus of all political parties at that time. That is the process that worked then, and that is the process that ought to work going forward.

I want to quote my friend and geographic neighbour, the hon. member for Wellington—Halton Hills. The member was recently at a parliamentary committee testifying on a different matter, but the point he made applies to this place. He said:

In Canada, there is only one federal electoral process, and that is the process whereby Canadians get one vote for their local member of Parliament. Everyone else in our system is appointed. The Senate is appointed. The Prime Minister is appointed.... The cabinet is appointed. Everyone else is appointed. The only electoral process federally in our system is for the House of Commons. It's the only part of our system that has an electoral process. It's the only part of our system that is democratic. It's the only part of our system where Canadians get a vote, and that is for the House of Commons.

The changes the Liberal government is proposing would give even more power to the whips and party leaders, and take away the rights and privileges of individually duly elected parliamentarians. It is a fundamental principle in this place that the Standing Orders ought to be respected, and up until now, the changes ought to require consensus. It is clear from the debate thus far that the government does not have that consensus.

I want to draw members' attention to some history in this place. On May 18, 2016, the then leader of the government in the House of Commons, now the minister of democratic institutions, introduced government Motion No. 6. Back then, when the NDP was still operating as an opposition party and holding true to its principles, the member for New Westminster—Burnaby raised a question of privilege in which he called the motion “a motion that rewrites our Standing Orders in more than 17 different ways so that the executive has unilateral control over all of the procedural tools in the House.”

That was when the member for New Westminster—Burnaby had principles and held the government to account. Unfortunately, now the New Democrats have joined the Liberal coalition and are no longer using the tools at their disposal. Motion No. 6 was eventually withdrawn, but only after the united concerted efforts of the opposition parties to make it clear that changes ought only occur with a consensus.

Then in our walk down memory lane, we move to 2017, when the then leader of the government in the House of Commons, now the chair of the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs, instructed the Liberal members on that same committee to introduce a motion that would have given the government the ability to change the Standing Orders in a way that was only approved by the Liberal majority in the House of Commons. This resulted in what was then known as the Standing Orders standoff, in which the 55th meeting of the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs lasted from March 21 to May 2, 2017, when the Liberal government eventually backed down.

That was certainly a challenging time, but when I look back at it, I do so with pride, because it was a time when Conservative, New Democrat, Bloc and Green members were all united against the unilateral Liberal government actions. I remember at the time the outrage so eloquently expressed by the NDP member David Christopherson. In one of his 303 interventions in that meeting, he said, “I don't understand how the government thinks they're going to win on this, or how they think that ramming through changes to our Standing Orders is going to make the House work any better.”

More than six years later, here we are again, with the Liberals trying to ram through changes, having not learned a single thing. Unfortunately, this time the NDP is driving the getaway car.

It reminds me of another quotation. In a speech to the Empire Club, an individual said this:

It is the opposition's right to insist at all times on the full protection of the rules of debate. The government is entitled to that same protection, but in addition it has its majority with which to establish its will. The opposition has only the rules for its protection, hence the authorities on parliamentary procedure emphasize the greater importance to the opposition of the only protection it has, the protection of the rules.

Who said that? It was the late great Stanley Knowles, one of the great NDP parliamentarians in this place, who, even after he left office, continued to have a seat at the clerk's table until he passed away. That is how dedicated he was to this place and to parliamentary democracy. Sadly, the NDP is no longer living up to the great expectations set by the late great Stanley Knowles.

As I mentioned at the outset of my remarks, the provisions for hybrid were brought in as temporary measures during the lockdowns of COVID-19. They were only there as a matter of necessity and should not be a permanent change so that members of Parliament can avoid this place.

Frankly, I remember that in April 2020, when we first started looking at temporary changes to the Standing Orders, it was done with a clear understanding that they were temporary. When the procedure and House affairs committee made its recommendations at that time, it included phrases such as “during the current pandemic” and “during exceptional circumstances”. This was never thought to be a part of the normalized operation of this place.

In fact, the committee heard from former acting clerk Marc Bosc, co-editor of House of Commons Procedure and Practice, third edition, the person who quite literally wrote the book on procedure in this place. On June 4, 2020, he said:

...I would say that I agree with Mr. Blaikie that the changes made so far relate to a pandemic situation. I think that has to be the lens through which you look at this particular exercise. The speed with which the hybrid model for the committee has been adopted, to me, is not a particular concern, but as Mr. Blaikie pointed out, if the tendency or the temptation is to make these changes permanent, that's a whole other issue.

As clearly shown at the time, these changes were never contemplated to be wholesale changes but rather temporary measures for a temporary situation.

We, as parliamentarians, especially opposition parliamentarians, hold a fundamental purpose in holding the government and the executive branch to account. What is often forgotten by Liberal backbenchers is that they share the same responsibility. Liberal backbenchers are not members of the government. They are members of the government party, but they are not members of the executive branch, and they ought to share the same concerns as opposition members in their role of holding government to account.

Unfortunately, hybrid Parliament makes it easier for Liberal ministers to avoid accountability in this place and at committee. What is more, as much as we may not always like what our friends in the media may write or say about us or our party, the media, too, holds a fundamental role within our parliamentary democracy. However, when a minister of the Crown participates virtually, either in committee or in the House, they avoid the interaction with our friends in the media and thereby avoid that effective way of accountability. When ministers participate in committee virtually, it takes more time and eats up more of the opportunity for opposition members to ask questions and have an effective restraint on the actions of government.

As I have raised a couple of times in questions and comments, the challenge of committees is very clear in a hybrid setting. I had the great honour and privilege to serve for nearly a year on the Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage. At the time, we were undertaking some very important studies, one of them on the absolutely horrendous state of affairs at Hockey Canada. I might add that is now ongoing with many other sports, which frankly, has not been adequately addressed. Sport Canada, as an organization, should be ashamed of itself in view of those allegations against Hockey Canada back in June 2018. It did nothing for four years, but I digress.

At committee, we were also studying Bill C-11 and we were undertaking clause-by-clause. In both of these situations, having a chair who was entirely virtual led to a gong show of a committee. The committee was unable to function because the chair could not see the room. The chair could not understand what was happening in the room. Quite frankly, the chair was constantly saying that she did not know what was happening in the room because she was not in the room. That is one of the major failings of the hybrid system, particularly as it relates to committees.

Now, I do recognize that, in these provisions, the presiding officer must preside in person, and perhaps we could call that the Hedy Fry rule, but that is what is happening—

Government Business No. 26—Amendments to the Standing OrdersGovernment Orders

9:40 p.m.

NDP

The Assistant Deputy Speaker NDP Carol Hughes

On a point of order, the hon. Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Health.

Government Business No. 26—Amendments to the Standing OrdersGovernment Orders

9:40 p.m.

Liberal

Adam van Koeverden Liberal Milton, ON

Madam Speaker, we cannot say members' names, and that would be a inappropriate name under that rule anyway.

Government Business No. 26—Amendments to the Standing OrdersGovernment Orders

9:40 p.m.

NDP

The Assistant Deputy Speaker NDP Carol Hughes

Obviously, the hon. member realizes that he mentioned the name in error. I am sure he will ensure that the rest of his speech does not include the name of a parliamentarian who presently sits in the House.

Government Business No. 26—Amendments to the Standing OrdersGovernment Orders

9:45 p.m.

Conservative

John Nater Conservative Perth—Wellington, ON

Madam Speaker, indeed, I did mean to say the member for Vancouver Centre, but it does reinforce the point that a member presiding over a committee or over the affairs of the House ought to be in person to ensure that a committee can function well.

Indeed, the member just raised a point of order. In a hybrid setting, where the chair is not personally there and present, it is much more difficult for a member to raise a point of order and catch the eye of the chair.

I want to talk a little now about how I believe hybrid Parliament has actually created a more toxic House of Commons. I was elected in 2015 and served here for about four and a half years prior to hybrid Parliament being introduced. In the three years since hybrid Parliament has been used, I have noticed a deep decline in decorum in this place and in committees.

Recently, in his final remarks to the House just earlier today, the member for Durham spoke about that growing division we have seen. I believe that a lot of this is a result of having more virtual and fewer in-person sittings of this place and committee.

It is far easier to be nasty to someone when one sees them only on a screen and one does not see them in the elevator, in the cafeteria, sharing flights and having private conversations. That understanding of in-person content and in-person conversations is what is important, and it is not always discussing Parliament. It could be discussing sports teams, the weather, our families and other things that colleagues talk about on a daily basis. It allows people to be seen as people and respected, rather than as adversaries who need to be defeated.

It has been spoken about in this place fairly often that this ought to be a measure to make things more family friendly. I do not disagree that Parliament is not the most family friendly place in the world. I think we all recognize that, when we are elected, there are many sacrifices each member makes for their family. I have three young children, who are almost nine, seven and five, and I do miss events in their lives.

I know that many members, especially members who are women, find real challenges because of the commute back and forth. There is no getting around that, but frankly, hybrid Parliament will not be the solution. In fact, hybrid Parliament requires that certain members ought to vote and participate even when they are unwell, caring for a loved one or caring for a new child. There is a new expectation that, when they are undertaking those important life milestones and important life situations, they are now expected to be voting and to be participating, rather than dealing with the important things that ought to be dealt with at that time.

It is not just Conservatives who have concerns with hybrid Parliament. Wayne Easter, a former long-time Liberal member of Parliament, an individual who served in this place from 1993 to 2021, recently expressed his concerns about hybrid Parliament.

He said, “Let me put it this way: If you don’t want to work in Ottawa during the parliamentary sessions — don’t run to be an MP. A hybrid Parliament made sense during Covid but it should never be permanent. I strongly oppose govt's move to make it permanent. He also said, “MPs being present at Committees is critical to do their work properly so they can build relationships across Party lines, chat with guests on the sidelines and feel the emotions of witnesses and Members.” He then said, “MPs present build alliances within the caucus, with Members of other parties and speak directly to Ministers behind the curtains on issues of concern.”

Mr. Easter goes on to further elaborate on many of those concerns, but suffice it to say, this is a member who served in that Liberal caucus for decades who is now criticizing this effort by the unilateral Liberal government to make changes.

At the Procedure and House Affairs Committee, we heard from another distinguished parliamentarian from the provincial level, the Hon. Ted Arnott, the Speaker for the Ontario legislature, who has served the Ontario legislature for over 33 years. He said:

It's hugely valuable for elected members to be able to interact in the chamber, outside of the chamber, in the corridors and in the lobbies. Having those face-to-face conversations can be very helpful in terms of ensuring that members are informed and that they're able to share best practices and ideas, as well as for members to be able to represent their constituents.

Throughout my time as a member, when I was advocating for my constituency, in many cases I would approach ministers, whether I was on the government side or whether I was on the opposition benches, and speak to them privately. That was a very important way of advancing an issue on behalf of constituents.

There is an importance in having these opportunities in the House.

As a wrap-up, I want to focus on a couple of paths forward. First of all, I want to note that the PROC dissenting report opened the door to co-operation with the government. We said very clearly in the Conservative dissenting report that we would agree to extend the provisions of hybrid Parliament to one year after the next election, so that when we came back after the election, there would not be that standoff in the first week. We would allow for the provision of the Standing Orders to continue for approximately one year and then have a vote on whether new members, and all members at the time, wish to see that continue. We made that offer. We had that opening, but the government failed to take it. It is unfortunate because we have seen the concerns that have happened.

I want to point out that, since March 2020, there were 90 disabling injuries recorded by interpreters in the House. We are quite literally causing damage to our interpreters, who are already in a lower number than they were prepandemic. If we want to truly be a bilingual Parliament, truly be a bilingual place, we need to ensure that interpreters are available in this place and for all committees.

I do want to say that we have opened the door to compromise. It is entirely inappropriate that the Liberals fail to seek that consensus where all recognized parties could have found a solution going forward.

Government Business No. 26—Amendments to the Standing OrdersGovernment Orders

9:50 p.m.

NDP

Peter Julian NDP New Westminster—Burnaby, BC

Madam Speaker, I like the member and enjoyed working with him at Canadian heritage. He did a great job as vice-chair.

I am prefacing my remarks in praising the member, but I have got to say his memory is faulty. I lived through the Harper regime, and I saw how the Conservatives ran roughshod over parliamentary rights. Through the entire majority mandate of its last four years, it was absolutely appalling and atrocious. Therefore, for the member to somehow cite the Harper government as an example to follow, I strongly disagree.

However, the member talked about this being before the House now, but where did this come from? The member will recall that, as a House, we referred it to procedure and House affairs. Procedure and House affairs had as its first recommendation reporting back to the House of Commons: “That hybrid Parliament, including the voting application, be continued and that all necessary changes to the Standing Orders be made to allow for its use, and that the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs must review these measures within the first year of the 45th Parliament.”

Therefore, the procedure and House affairs committee recommendation before us now is to be voted on by Parliament, so I simply disagree with the member's interpretation of the facts. Procedure and House affairs—

Government Business No. 26—Amendments to the Standing OrdersGovernment Orders

9:50 p.m.

NDP

The Assistant Deputy Speaker NDP Carol Hughes

I will allow the hon. member to answer because I do have other individuals who want to ask questions.

Government Business No. 26—Amendments to the Standing OrdersGovernment Orders

June 12th, 2023 / 9:50 p.m.

Conservative

John Nater Conservative Perth—Wellington, ON

Madam Speaker, I would like to remind the member for New Westminster—Burnaby, when he is citing the Harper record, that his party, the New Democratic Party, so far has supported time allocation 37 times in this Parliament, so it is awfully rich for the NDP members to be claiming it is an opposition party when they are supporting time allocation here in the House of Commons.

Government Business No. 26—Amendments to the Standing OrdersGovernment Orders

9:50 p.m.

NDP

Heather McPherson NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB

You did it 115 times.

Government Business No. 26—Amendments to the Standing OrdersGovernment Orders

9:50 p.m.

Conservative

John Nater Conservative Perth—Wellington, ON

I would remind the member for Edmonton Strathcona—

Government Business No. 26—Amendments to the Standing OrdersGovernment Orders

9:50 p.m.

NDP

The Assistant Deputy Speaker NDP Carol Hughes

Order. I think there are other individuals who are trying to have their say here, but it is not time. I have not recognized them.

Before I go to the hon. member for Perth—Wellington, I want to remind hon. members who are online that I will not recognize them unless they have their headsets on.

Government Business No. 26—Amendments to the Standing OrdersGovernment Orders

9:50 p.m.

Conservative

John Nater Conservative Perth—Wellington, ON

Madam Speaker, in response to the member for Edmonton Strathcona, 37 times her party has supported time allocation to ram through the Liberal government's agenda. The New Democrats used to be an opposition party to hold the government to account, and now the member for New Westminster—Burnaby and others are raising this issue. They talked about the Harper regime. There was a cake at that time. We were going to bake a cake for the NDP to celebrate—

Government Business No. 26—Amendments to the Standing OrdersGovernment Orders

9:50 p.m.

NDP

The Assistant Deputy Speaker NDP Carol Hughes

Questions and comments, the hon. member for Vancouver Centre.