Debates of Oct. 21st, 2024

RCMP Allegations Concerning Foreign Interference from the Government of India

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Madam Speaker, I sit on the Standing Committee for National Defence. One of the things we consistently hear about as a massive part of foreign interference is disinformation. I truly believe and I am quite saddened to see that a lot of the disinformation that exists in this country is coming from those foreign entities but that is also coming from certain political parties, specifically the Conservative Party.

Can the member maybe talk about what the Conservatives are trying to gain from the disinformation campaign, all of the campaigns that they are running, and how that links to what we are seeing from foreign governments like the Indian government?

[Kamal Khera, Liberal, Brampton West, ON]

Madam Speaker, I think we have seen time and time again that misinformation and disinformation is a real issue, particularly in online spaces. The Justice Hogue report particularly, when it comes to foreign inquiry, has pointed out how the Indian government and the propaganda that comes from the Indian side actually lead to misinformation and disinformation campaigns in our own communities. It is not just online. People start believing the campaigns. In fact sometimes I get questions from ethnic media about the things that we would assume are coming from the Indian government.

I think it is really important that we, as Canadians, first and foremost remember that we need to make sure we are listening to the facts and evidence and are guided by the rule of law and by the evidence that is provided by our intelligence and by our law enforcement agencies. That is really important. I also think it is really important that we, as leaders in this country, do everything possible to make sure we are protecting Canadians. That is exactly what we have been doing on this side of the House.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Madam Speaker, I have asked my Liberal colleagues a question a few times. They have yet to respond.

I just listened to the minister's speech. She was very passionate and emphatic. I could tell she really believed in what she was saying. Someone on the Liberal side will have to explain to me, then, why it took so long.

A motion was adopted here in the House of Commons in November 2020 to establish a foreign agent registry. The Liberals who are here tonight speaking so passionately took three years to begin public consultations to come up with Bill C‑70, which finally passed in 2024.

My question is simple. If the government takes its responsibilities seriously, why did it wait three years to begin consultations and take four years to come up with a bill, since the motion dates back to November 18, 2020?

[Kamal Khera, Liberal, Brampton West, ON]

Madam Speaker, I will remind my hon. colleague that no other governments have taken the issue of foreign interference as seriously as the Liberal Government of Canada.

[An hon. member]

Oh, oh!

[Kamal Khera, Liberal, Brampton West, ON]

Madam Speaker, I know that my hon. colleague from the Conservative Party is laughing. It is shameful that he sits here and pretends to care about national security, but his own party's leader will not get security clearance to get to the bottom of this. I find it absolutely shameful, as a member of the Sikh community, that the member sits here as a member of the Conservative Party, pretends to care about national security and laughs and jokes around this, but—

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès), Liberal, Alexandra Mendes]

I have to give time for at least one more question.

The hon. member for Saanich—Gulf Islands has the floor.

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Madam Speaker, the hon. member in her speech noted how the Indian government has refused to cooperate. In the security briefing I received, I was very struck by what were described as plan A, plan B and plan C, as senior RCMP officers and senior Canadian diplomats attempted to show the Indian government the evidence.

I wonder whether all members of this place have already heard about plan A in Delhi, plan B in Washington, D.C., and plan C in Singapore, and whether the hon. minister wants to comment on the efforts of the Indian government to avoid looking at evidence.

[Kamal Khera, Liberal, Brampton West, ON]

Madam Speaker, I want to thank the hon. member for being a party leader who also took the top security clearance to be able to get to the bottom of what is happening in our country, unlike the Conservative leader.

Ever since the issue came to light, our government has been trying to work with the Government of India. We have been trying to collaborate with it and show it the evidence. We have shown it irrefutable evidence, but what we have seen every step of the way is that it has absolutely refused to co-operate. That is unacceptable, which is why the foreign minister made the decision to expel the six diplomats who allegedly have been involved with spying on Canadians and then using the information to target members of the Sikh community.

I want to thank our law enforcement agencies and security agencies for the tremendous work they have been doing to protect our communities.

[Ali Ehsassi, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

Madam Speaker, allow me to begin by thanking all fellow parliamentarians for facilitating and participating in tonight's important emergency debate.

The activities of the Indian government, as detailed last week by the RCMP, are shocking and should represent an affront to all Canadians, irrespective of their political views. This is a time for us all to be steadfast in our pursuit of the truth. Public safety and the integrity of our institutions is any Canadian government's most fundamental and greatest responsibility. We must each support all efforts to protect the rule of law, both at home and abroad.

I wish to commend the dedicated work of the RCMP and our security and law enforcement agencies as they continue to methodically pursue their ongoing investigation to keep our country and all Canadians safe. The actions detailed by the RCMP threaten the fundamental freedoms of Canadians. Not only is their security at stake, but their cherished right to the freedom of expressing their views without fear of violence or reprisal is threatened.

The allegations suggest that agents working on behalf of the Government of India have threatened our public safety. Such activity appears to have been conducted with the specific aim of creating a particularly threatening environment for Canadians of South Asian heritage and were connected to the revelations last year that the Indian government may have been implicated in the murder of the late Hardeep Singh Nijjar.

Unfortunately, there appears to be a pattern of similar illegal tactics being used against diaspora communities across the western world. Just four days ago, the American Department of Justice indicted Vikash Yadav, a former Indian intelligence officer tied to a murder plot against a Sikh activist in New York City. Activists in the United Kingdom have also expressed fear of retaliation and violence from the Indian government, making it clear that such threats are not solely limited to Canada.

I want to take this moment to commend our allies for their support in the last few difficult days. The United States and the United Kingdom have publicly and openly called on the Government of India to fully co-operate with our investigation and have expressed their unconditional confidence in our judicial system and our staunch adherence to the rule of law. Now it is more important than ever that the democratic countries of the international community come together to close ranks given the common perils that confront us all.

Some may say that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, yet it is clear that the RCMP and the government have diligently investigated these claims following a thorough and methodological investigation. Last year, a credible link emerged between the operations of the Indian high commission and the murder of Hardeep Singh Nijjar.

We have repeatedly requested co-operation from the Indian government. At every step in this process, Canada has been open about its investigation and has shared the RCMP's evidence with Indian officials. However, the Indian government has decided to not co-operate. It is absolutely integral that we take steps to signal to India and the world that such actions are completely unacceptable and that our procedures are not open to negotiation or to be adhered to à la carte. Rather, we will pursue any challenge to our national security forthrightly and with full integrity.

Fundamentally, at our core, Canada as a nation has always demonstrated a commitment to the rule of law. We do not investigate, indict and prosecute without clear evidence warranting the attention of our law enforcement agencies and in strict pursuance of our judicial system. Any entity, whether or not it involves the backing of any state, cannot engage in malign actions without bringing the full attention and weight of our government to bear against it.

As a member of Parliament, I am committed to ensuring the safety and security of all Canadians. It is clear that the Sikh community in Canada, which numbers approximately 770,000, deserves our full protection and support now more than ever before. Despite our efforts, it is disheartening to see the Indian government's unacceptable response. Rather than engage with our investigation and help or assist us in uncovering the truth, the Indian government has systematically shrugged off any attempt at co-operation. Ultimately, this is a sad development. For over 75 years, our two countries have built deep, historical, cultural and economic links. Our relationship has always been underpinned by mutual respect and co-operation. By working together, our two respective countries have achieved great things for Canada and India. It is highly unfortunate and regrettable to see our mutual relationship threatened by the Indian government's obfuscation.

In conclusion, let me affirm that our commitment to the principles of democracy, human rights and the rule of law are sacrosanct. They do not admit of any exception. We are Canadians, and we pursue the law without fear or favour. We must stand firm in ensuring that no organization or country is able to engage in the repression and intimidation of Canadians. While we will continue to dialogue with India, we should draw upon our allies to stress the importance of co-operation in addressing these very serious allegations. All parties in the House must come together to support our government's efforts to fully uphold the safety of all our citizens by jealously respecting international norms, due process and the rule of law. A failure to stand together with respect to the allegations regarding the Indian government would send every country in the world with malign intent the signal that we are not resolute in protecting the rights of all Canadians.

I thank all members for their attention to this critical matter. Let us stand united in our pursuit of justice and the protection of our citizens and ensure that ties between Canada and India are based on mutual respect and accountability.

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Madam Speaker, in my riding in London—Fanshawe, there is such an incredible and vibrant Sikh community. Its members, for the last year or more, have been struggling with this fear and a shadow that hangs over them. It has been quite a lot. I am so grateful that we are now having this debate. It is long overdue, but I am certainly happy to have it.

New Democrats have been asking about the protection of Canadians and wanting to ban the extremist RSS group. I would like to ask the member for his opinion about that.

[Ali Ehsassi, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

Madam Speaker, regarding the hon. member for London—Fanshawe's first point, allow me to say that we are truly blessed as a country to have dynamic Sikh communities from coast to coast to coast, so that is something that all our ridings have the good fortune of sharing with London—Fanshawe.

With respect to the member's follow-up question, she has raised a very critical issue, an issue that does require that we pay closer attention. It is something that our government should look into very closely because it is our obligation to ensure that every Sikh person in this country has full confidence in our legal system and knows they will be protected from any threats.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Madam Speaker, I think I will be lucky. I think this is the fifth time that I am asking a member of the Liberal Party this question. What is more, I get along fairly well with my colleague who just gave an excellent speech. We have the good fortune of being able to serve together on the Subcommittee on International Human Rights of the Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs and International Development, and we work really well together. It is the only subcommittee that operates by consensus and where no voting takes place. Perhaps it would do the House some good to look at how this subcommittee operates.

I will ask him the question because I know that he will answer me. Can he explain to me why, despite the fact that a motion was adopted in the House on November 18, 2020, calling on the government to create a foreign agent registry, the government waited until March 2023 before beginning the public consultations that led to the drafting of Bill C-70, which was passed in 2024? Can my colleague tell me why the government took three years to begin consultations after the motion was adopted in November 2020?

[Ali Ehsassi, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

Madam Speaker, allow me to thank my hon. colleague for all the inspiring work he does in committee. It has truly been an honour to work collaboratively with him on numerous issues concerning human rights and upholding legal principles around the world.

On this issue of the foreign registry, what I can say is that I have always been a proud proponent of the foreign registry. That is something I have always associated myself with. As I said, we have to confirm for all Canadians that we are being vigilant and that we are doing everything in our power to make sure that our institutions are up to the task of serving Canadians.

As to how and why it took so long, I cannot speak to the specifics of that issue. I think the hon. member will agree that what our government has produced is thorough, has been thought through and is very systematic. That is something that we can all welcome, and it is something we should all take comfort in.

[Jasraj Singh Hallan, Conservative, Calgary Forest Lawn, AB]

Madam Speaker, I am honoured to rise today during this very important emergency debate to lend my thoughts and provide some feedback from the Sikh community.

The very serious revelations by the RCMP last Monday should be taken with the utmost seriousness. The RCMP has alleged that Indian diplomats and consular officials based in Canada were participating in foreign interference in Canada. To most Canadians, this might come as a shock that this could be happening in Canada. This is something the Sikh community has known about and was vindicated by what the RCMP alleged just last week. The community has been talking about this over the last 40 years. This is very close to the heart of the Sikh community.

As was mentioned by the deputy leader, the MP for Edmonton Mill Woods, there is a big difference in what has happened over those 40 years. There was a time when people's Indian visas would get cancelled. The difference now is that people's lives are being taken, coercion is taking place and threats of violence and extortion are happening.

Just to lay out the seriousness of the allegations, I want to put on the record the evidence that has been brought forward:

The RCMP has obtained evidence that demonstrates four very serious issues:

Violent extremism impacting both countries [India and Canada];

Links tying agents of the Government of India (GOI) to homicides and violent acts;

The use of organized crime to create a perception of an unsafe environment targeting the South Asian Community in Canada; and

Interference into democratic processes.

These are, by far, some very serious allegations that should not be taken lightly at all for any Canadians.

Canadians should feel safe in Canada, full stop. Their families should feel safe and our communities should feel safe. Canadians should be safe from extortion, murder and threats of violence, but after nine years of the Liberal government, Canadians do not feel safe anymore. Canada has become a safe haven and a playground for foreign interference under the Liberal-NDP government after nine years.

Just last year, a Canadian was killed on Canadian soil and the RCMP alleged that was done by a foreign government. In that case, it was by India. It is a very difficult time in Canada right now. Many do not feel safe. Many do not feel this is Canada anymore. Whether people were born here and grew up here or immigrated here, like my family and millions of others, the one common thing heard across the country is that Canada is not Canada anymore. Many people left their countries because it was unsafe, only to come to Canada and now feel that Canadians are not safe on Canadian soil anymore. I spoke about the Sikh community advocating for this. As I said, it is a stark difference in the change that has taken place in Canada for many diaspora communities.

We must realize one thing, which is that a criminal in Canada is a criminal and a Canadian is a Canadian. This is not a religious or a cultural fight. This is for the safety and sovereignty of Canadians. The security of Canadians is at risk after nine years of the Liberal-NDP government. As I have said many times, people just do not feel safe here anymore. There is no safety for their children. Extortions are up. Violent crime is up. All of these things have been happening because of soft-on-crime policies. That is the reality of living in Canada today. That is why so many people do not feel safe here anymore.

Last year, the U.S. government foiled an assassination plot. It went from allegations to an arrest within one week. By contrast, here in Canada, the Prime Minister made allegations and then it just went quiet. Canadians felt more unsafe after they heard that news because they did not see action being taken. That is the problem. There has been no action taken by the government about some of the serious crimes taking place in this country. In fact, it has become a playground for these types of activities to take place because it does not seem like there is serious leadership in this country anymore after nine years of the Prime Minister. Communities at large started feeling unsafe at that point. They felt like there was no law to protect them anymore and that they had to fend for their own communities. That is the reality after nine years. That is how diaspora communities are feeling today.

Canada is at a very critical point right now in stopping foreign interference. This should be a wake-up call to the Liberal government that is soft on crime. Canadians need to feel safe in Canada from threats of violence, coercion and extortion by foreign actors. Canadians deserve to be protected on Canadian soil.

As our leader had mentioned, the news and allegations that were released last week regarding India's interference in Canada are extremely concerning and must be taken very seriously. We are in an environment where the government has divided Canadians and pitted Canadians against each other. Canada is supposed to be a country with freedom of expression including religious and political views. What this foreign interference has uncovered is that the government is incompetent and unable to protect Canadians from threats.

Conservatives expect a full criminal prosecution of anyone who has threatened, murdered or otherwise harmed Canadians. My Conservative colleagues and I have the goal of getting answers for Canadians and to keep Canadians safe and stop Canada from being a playground for foreign interference.

I will end by quoting our leader from a letter he recently wrote, stating “Any foreign interference from any country, including India, is unacceptable and must be stopped”.

[Randeep Sarai, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Veterans Affairs and Associate Minister of National Defence]

Madam Speaker, the member opposite said that the leader of the Conservative Party, in relation to these particular, very serious allegations by the RCMP, said the Prime Minister is pitting Canadians against Canadians.

I would like to know which Canadians have been pitted against which other Canadians, with regard to homicides and transnational aggression against Sikh Canadians here in Canada.

[Jasraj Singh Hallan, Conservative, Calgary Forest Lawn, AB]

Madam Speaker, it is well known what the Prime Minister does. He pits Canadians against each other to distract and divide away from his poor failed record. In this case, it is his poor record on foreign interference. He was recently at the foreign interference inquiry where he went and distracted, to pit Canadians against each other once again. He made all sorts of misleading statements in there.

That is what I am talking about. He did that on purpose, just to distract away from his failed miserable record that has left Canadians feeling more unsafe than ever before.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Madam Speaker, the member highlighted the need to keep Canadians safe from foreign interference. There is confidential information that would allow the leader of his party to ensure that people in his party as well as other Canadians are more safe and, yet, the leader of the Conservative Party refuses to get the security clearance necessary to see that information. This is a case of wilful blindness when the lives of Canadians are on the line.

I would like the member to explain to Canadians who are wondering why every other political leader of every party in this place has received the necessary clearance to see those documents and his leader refuses to.

[Jasraj Singh Hallan, Conservative, Calgary Forest Lawn, AB]

Madam Speaker, it is clear the NDP once again wants to prop up the Liberals in gagging the Conservative leader. They want our leader to take a confidential briefing that would have to remain confidential. Let me be crystal clear on this point so it gets through their heads. According to the CSIS Act, the Prime Minister can, in this case, take 10 steps this way, walk over to the Conservative leader and release the names to the leader today. The leader does not need to be gagged and put under an order so he is not able to do anything with information, like the rest of these leaders. Release the names.

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Madam Speaker, to my hon. friend from Calgary Forest Lawn, it is very important to not only get a security briefing but to understand the nature of the obligations of Canada, our intelligence gathering and security experts and the relationship they must have with our Five Eyes partners. As much I believe he sincerely thinks releasing names would be an easy thing to do, to do so might jeopardize what are referred to as intelligence assets. They are human beings, but as CSIS has explained to me, they have been referred to by CSIS as intelligence assets, whose lives could be at risk if we were to be reckless.

I want to put to the hon. member that there was a more dangerous time in 1985: the biggest single terrorist attack on Canadian soil, with the Air India bombing. I would no more decide to politicize that and say that somehow the Prime Minister of the day, the Right Honourable Brian Mulroney, was responsible for that. I think we know, from the Air India inquiry, there were systemic problems. The RCMP had bits of information and CSIS had bits of information. They did not work together well.

It is critical that in a debate like this, on an emergency motion of threats to Canadians on Canadian soil from a foreign government, we stop trying to politicize it and blame one party or one party's leader, but work together to show foreign governments that we can work together. On that basis, I want the official opposition leader to get his security briefing.

[Jasraj Singh Hallan, Conservative, Calgary Forest Lawn, AB]

Madam Speaker, our leader did get a briefing. On October 14, the national security intelligence adviser to the Prime Minister, the deputy minister of foreign affairs at Global Affairs Canada and the director of CSIS all gave him a briefing about the foreign interference that was happening from India.

The CSIS Act allows the government to offer information to any Canadian about specific risks of foreign interference without forcing them into sworn secrecy or controlling what they say. After receiving that briefing, they never once brought up anything, not even just to our party or anyone, of the false claims that the Prime Minister was supposedly making. This is nothing but an effort to try to gag the Conservative leader. This is such a serious issue of foreign interference, and as we can see, the Greens, the Liberals and the NDP are all playing politics.

[Parm Bains, Liberal, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

Madam Speaker, I am going to continue on the same line of questioning. I have a statement here from Richard Fadden, who served as the former CSIS director, who said, “I really think the Leader of the Opposition should accept a security clearance so that he can be briefed in detail. All of these other politicians seem to be able to function and fulfill their duties as members of the opposition while still having some measure of briefing.”

At this point in time, and this is the most important thing, the last thing we need to send to India is a message that we are not united on this point, because it will take advantage of that point and use it in India, and it has. We have seen a former army official who is serving as a state media commentator in India now who said that India should spend $100 million to take down the Prime Minister of Canada. Why is that happening now? We are not united on this, and the member is talking about not being political.

[Jasraj Singh Hallan, Conservative, Calgary Forest Lawn, AB]

Madam Speaker, the only thing that we are not united on is wanting our Conservative leader to be gagged after being sworn in.

In fact, it is the Prime Minister's chief of staff who admitted that is exactly what happens. According to the Prime Minister's chief of staff, Katie Telford, this would prevent a recipient from using the information in any manner. She said:

Even where that is not the case, briefing political parties on sensitive intelligence regarding an MP could put the leader or representative of a political party in a tough position, because any decision affecting the MP might have to be made without giving them due process.

It is not just taking our word for it; it is the Prime Minister's own chief of staff who admits it is a gag order. That is something that we do not want to do.

[Tim Uppal, Conservative, Edmonton Mill Woods, AB]

Madam Speaker, I just want to ask my hon. colleague a question.

We are dealing with the very serious issue here of the RCMP saying that agents of the Indian government have been involved in murders and organized crime in Canada, and serious violence towards Canadians. The Liberal government and its Prime Minister have been in government now for nine years. Foreign interference from a number of countries, including India, has increased during that time. Violence in this country has increased during that time.

There are serious gaps that are causing Canadians to be less safe in this country, yet, when we hear from the NDP and the Liberals, all they can talk about is the opposition leader. Why is that?

[Jasraj Singh Hallan, Conservative, Calgary Forest Lawn, AB]

Madam Speaker, I want to thank our deputy leader for his great work on trying to tackle extortion in Canada.

He is absolutely right: This is all politics for the Liberals, the NDP and, obviously, the Greens. That is all this is. This is such a serious issue that is taking place in Canada. They know it is happening, but it is more important for them to play politics.

I want to thank the member for Edmonton Mill Woods for bringing forward an extortion bill that, I must remind everyone, the Liberals and the NDP voted against. The member for Edmonton Mill Woods brought forward an extortion bill because of the feedback we heard from communities about not feeling safe after nine years of the Liberal-NDP government. He brought forward a private member's bill that would strengthen the laws when it comes to extortion, especially for organized crime, which we are seeing run rampant in the nine years of this incompetent Prime Minister and his cabinet ministers.

When we brought forward that common-sense Conservative bill on extortion, they voted against it. It is more proof that everything is politics to them, and this is not about the safety, sovereignty or security of Canadians.