Debates of Oct. 29th, 2024

Carbon Pricing

[Kyle Seeback, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

Mr. Speaker, a couple of weeks ago, I asked a question about the steel industry. I talked about the brave steelworker who stood up to the Liberal Prime Minister when he was trying to justify the alleged work the Liberals are doing for the steel industry. The Prime Minister had an encounter with this brave steelworker, who, as far as I am concerned, spoke truth to power, which is a rare thing.

The Prime Minister was talking about how he is doing such great things by putting steel tariffs there, following the Conservatives, who called for steel tariffs, and he talked about some investment and said to the steelworker that $400 million is going to keep his job. The steelworker said, “What about the 40 per cent taxes I am paying? And I don’t have a doctor.” The Prime Minister said, “The $400 million invested means you are going to have a job.”

This is where the steelworker got very interesting. He said, “I think you're only here for another year. We won't see you around probably in another year, I'm guessing.” On this count, I think, this steelworker is where most Canadians are. The Prime Minister went on to try to convince him of the various things the government is doing that are so great. This is what the steelworker finished with. He said, “I don't believe you for a second.”

I would agree with this brave steelworker who said that to the Prime Minister. Now, why would he say that? For one thing, the carbon tax is going to kill the steel industry.

About six months ago, I met with the CEOs and the union representatives for steel manufacturing in Canada. All of them said very directly to me that if the carbon tax continues to go up, there will be no steel industry in Canada. This was not just the steel CEOs. Representatives of the United Steelworkers were there and they said the same thing: The carbon tax is going to kill the steel industry in Canada. We can talk about how terrible the carbon tax is for a whole bunch of things, but this is a concrete example where there was unanimity. The steelworkers said the carbon tax is going to kill the steel industry. All of the steel companies said the carbon tax is going to kill the steel industry. Despite this, the Liberals just keep beating the drum that somehow the carbon tax is good for Canadians.

We have seen what the carbon tax has done to the price of food. We now have two million people going to food banks in Canada every month. If, when the Conservatives were in government, someone had said that in 10 years, every month two million Canadians would be going to food banks, we would have thought they were crazy. Little did we know how corrosive the carbon tax would be to the social fabric of this country.

Going back to the gist of my question, I got such a terrible answer from the minister, saying the Liberals are always going to be there to stand up for steelworkers. Those words and $1.50 can get a double-double at Tim Hortons. Well, no, it would have gotten one before the Liberals took power; now it is more like $2.50. The point is that they are hollow, empty words that fly in the face of what the steel industry is very clearly and directly saying: that the carbon tax will lead to the death of the steel industry in Canada if the Liberals go ahead with their plan to quadruple the carbon tax.

In the face of that overwhelming evidence, how can the Liberals justify quadrupling the carbon tax, to steelworkers in this country?

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Environment and Climate Change and to the Minister of Sport and Physical Activity]

Mr. Speaker, it is nice to be here for this adjournment debate. I would like to thank my colleague and neighbour from Dufferin—Caledon for entertaining the opportunity for it this evening.

I printed off an article for my friend, and I hope he chooses to read it. As I was telling him just a couple of minutes ago, I feel as though the art of thoughtful debate and real conversation in the House has suffered at the hands of the three-word slogan. I like the opportunity to talk about some of our measures to lower carbon emissions in Canada and help the steel industry and lots of other industries usher in a more sustainable future.

Before I go on, I would like to say that not only am I a big fan of Canada's steel industry, but I used to be a steelworker. I worked at Aldershot steel when I was in university. I came from a working-class family and grew up in community housing, so a $20-an-hour job was really exciting for me when I was 19 or 20 years old. Kayaks, incidentally, are made out of carbon fibre and are expensive, so I needed a job and Aldershot steel was close to school. After my classes were done at McMaster University, I would often put in a few hours at the shop, so I know a lot of steelworkers. McMaster is in Steeltown too, which is Hamilton. I will give a shout-out to the Hamilton Ticats.

While the member was speaking, I looked up some of the initiatives the Canadian Steel Producers Association has undertaken. It is very committed to sustainable steel. In fact, ArcelorMittal Dofasco earned responsible steel certification, which recognizes the company's leadership in reducing greenhouse gas emissions, noise emissions and effluents, as well as waste and waste-water stewardship and biodiversity. Canada's steel producers are leading the way. They are moving toward new electric arc reactors, which do not rely on coal to heat up iron ore and metals in order to make steel and steel products.

I looked at the ambitions of the Canadian Steel Producers Association, and I will read a couple of them:

Establish a Canadian steel climate council with key government departments to monitor and report on the progress of the sector’s climate strategy, to share practices, to engage with other stakeholders, and to evolve the plan as new information and insights emerge;

Recycle all carbon pricing revenues from the steel sector back into the industry to support the development of low-emission technologies;

Expand access to abundant low/zero carbon energy supplies for domestic steelmaking operations....

The CSPA recognizes the value in low-carbon steel. It wants to be a world leader in low-carbon steel and does not want to do things the way they were done 150 years ago during the Industrial Revolution, when it seemed natural to burn coal to create heat to produce steel.

It is 2024 and will be 2025 soon. It is important that we get with the times. It is critical that we encourage and support industry as it moves past high carbon-intensity production. Having an industrial carbon price and a consumer carbon price is the reason our emissions are 30% lower than they were under Stephen Harper's government. In fact, the last time they were this low, Kurt Cobain was still alive and I was 12 years old and listening to Nirvana.

It has been a really long time since Canada had a downward trajectory on emissions, and that is something to celebrate, particularly because interest rates are going down, inflation is going down and job numbers are getting even better. Our economy is solid in Canada, and it is solid with industrial and consumer carbon pricing. Canadians, in 2019 and 2021, when I was at their doors, demanded climate action, and that is one of the things our government has delivered on.

[Kyle Seeback, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

Mr. Speaker, this is exhibit A of the problem. First of all, the member noted the use of electric arc to heat up and process iron ore. Electric arc cannot process iron ore. It only works with recycled steel. The member does not even know what he is talking about regarding the steel industry, which means the government probably does not know. That is problem number one.

Problem number two is that CEOs have converted some of their blast furnaces into electric arc and they still pay carbon taxes. They told me how much carbon tax the steel industry pays. It is a gigantic number. They said that as a result of that, if carbon pricing goes up, there will be no steel industry whether they convert to electric arc or not. I am trying to speak slowly and clearly so I can hopefully get an answer.

Everything the member just said is irrelevant to what the steel industry said. Whether they convert everything to electric arc or not, they are still paying carbon taxes on the other energy they use, and it will drive them out of business. There will be no steelworkers. Why will the Liberals not admit it and axe the carbon tax?

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I cannot help but highlight a little bit of the misinformation from the member. I was reading directly from the Steel Producers Association website. To suggest that it does not represent the views of the steel producers or the steel industry is straight up false. It is not fair to suggest that the Steel Producers Association does not have their best interests at heart, when I was reading directly from its website.

However, Canadians right across the country are concerned about climate change, and that includes people in the member's own riding. I have travelled around southwestern Ontario, I have friends in Shelburne and I am frequently in Orangeville. I know that the mayor of Caledon, Allan Thompson, has said that because of climate change, “Every year, we're seeing more storms, higher temperatures and changes to the flora and fauna around us.”

If we do not do something to fight climate change and lower our emissions, then we are really doing a huge disservice to future generations.

[The Deputy Speaker, Chris d'Entremont]

The motion that the House do now adjourn is deemed to have been adopted. Accordingly, the House stands adjourned until tomorrow at 2 p.m. pursuant to Standing Order 24(1).

(The House adjourned at 7:15 p.m.)