House of Commons Hansard #363 of the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was maid.

Topics

Medical Assistance in DyingCommittees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

11:20 a.m.

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux Liberal Winnipeg North, MB

Madam Speaker, it is somewhat interesting that the member believes there are individuals in the House who have a full and comprehensive understanding of all private members' bills on the Order Paper. I suspect that she has knowledge of maybe 50% of them. That is being exceptionally generous. If I am wrong, she can stand up on a point of order and tell me that I am wrong.

The reality is that I found out about this debate just over an hour ago. For members to say that I do not know Bill C-390 and to diminish the importance of the issue at hand, which the House has to talk about, does a disservice to all parliamentarians. If the Bloc members genuinely want to have a healthy, strong debate on Bill C-390, at the very least, they could have raised it on an opposition day. They could have raised the issue weeks or months ago and said that they would like to have that debate.

Medical Assistance in DyingCommittees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

11:25 a.m.

NDP

Alexandre Boulerice NDP Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC

Madam Speaker, it is pretty mind-boggling to hear the parliamentary secretary to the leader of the Liberal government right now.

We are talking about a fundamental issue: dignity of human life and respect for people. Unfortunately, unless the Supreme Court or the Quebec Superior Court asks the government to take action, it does nothing. The special joint committee has been making recommendations for months. The Liberal government knew the Quebec legislation was coming.

What did the government do? Nothing.

What are you doing? Why do you always wait until the last minute? You are dragging your heels.

Medical Assistance in DyingCommittees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

11:25 a.m.

NDP

The Assistant Deputy Speaker NDP Carol Hughes

I remind the hon. member that he must address his words through the Chair, and not directly to the government or the members.

The hon. parliamentary secretary to the government House leader.

Medical Assistance in DyingCommittees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

11:25 a.m.

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux Liberal Winnipeg North, MB

Madam Speaker, from day one, the government has understood the depth of the issue and how important it is to Canadians. As I indicated in my comments, this is very much a personal issue, with great difficulties surrounding the decision-making process. The government has brought in legislation, it has updated the legislation and it has had special joint committees in the past. There is another one coming up in November, which will provide a report in January. The federal government has the responsibility to do proper consultation despite what the Bloc and NDP might try to portray.

Medical Assistance in DyingCommittees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

11:25 a.m.

Bloc

Claude DeBellefeuille Bloc Salaberry—Suroît, QC

Madam Speaker, I rise on a point of order.

I must note that the Bloc Québécois made the effort to notify the government. The government learned last night that we would be debating this report. It is therefore false—

Medical Assistance in DyingCommittees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

11:25 a.m.

NDP

The Assistant Deputy Speaker NDP Carol Hughes

That is a matter for debate. The hon. member will likely have another opportunity to raise the issue.

Questions and comments, the hon. member for St. Albert—Edmonton.

Medical Assistance in DyingCommittees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

11:25 a.m.

Conservative

Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Edmonton, AB

Madam Speaker, I would remind the parliamentary secretary that I was not elected during the Harper government. Second of all, the Carter decision was rendered at the end of the Harper government. It was up to the Liberal government to pass legislation, and the government has been in office for nine years.

The Supreme Court contemplated the need for stringent and robust safeguards to protect vulnerable persons. The report from two weeks ago out of the Ontario coroner's office indicates that those safeguards are not being properly monitored and enforced under the government's watch.

Again, why the silence from the justice minister and the health minister? Is it that they just do not care?

Medical Assistance in DyingCommittees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

11:25 a.m.

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux Liberal Winnipeg North, MB

Madam Speaker, the member is half right. At the end of the day, the Carter decision from the Supreme Court of Canada was light in the Conservative mandate. I will give the member that much.

Having said that, there was absolutely no indication or approach to try to deal with the issue. At the time, Stephen Harper believed that maybe they would be able to deal with it, maybe they would not be able to deal with it. It was not a priority for the Conservative government.

Yes, the member might not have been an elected member of Parliament at the time, but that does not take away from his involvement with Stephen Harper before he was an elected member of Parliament.

Medical Assistance in DyingCommittees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

11:25 a.m.

Bloc

Luc Thériault Bloc Montcalm, QC

Madam Speaker, Bill C‑7 would not have been possible and would not have passed if Bill C‑14 had not infringed on people's right to life.

I am very disappointed to hear my colleague's comments. He has not read Bill C‑390, but he is in charge of procedure. He should be able to understand the bills that are introduced in the House. He should at least have a basic knowledge of that. Since he does not know, since he is ignorant, he does not know that the proposed solution—

Medical Assistance in DyingCommittees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

11:25 a.m.

NDP

The Assistant Deputy Speaker NDP Carol Hughes

I am going to ask the member to withdraw the word “ignorant”. As we know, a person must not be attacked directly.

The hon. member for Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie on a point of order.

Medical Assistance in DyingCommittees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

11:25 a.m.

NDP

Alexandre Boulerice NDP Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC

Madam Speaker, I am having a hard time understanding the rules of the House. Conservative MPs recently attacked the member for Timmins—James Bay, saying he was anti-Semitic. The Conservatives regularly attack ministers by saying that they are incompetent.

Why can the member for Montcalm not say that the parliamentary secretary is ignorant?

Medical Assistance in DyingCommittees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

October 31st, 2024 / 11:30 a.m.

NDP

The Assistant Deputy Speaker NDP Carol Hughes

The hon. member for Drummond on a point of order.

Medical Assistance in DyingCommittees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

11:30 a.m.

Bloc

Martin Champoux Bloc Drummond, QC

Madam Speaker, there are subtleties in the French language. The word “ignorant” can be considered an insult, but it can also be considered a state, a state of ignorance, a state of not knowing. In the current context, I think that my colleague from Montcalm wanted to make it clear that the member for Winnipeg North was not aware of the issue, did not know the file. It was not an insult; it was a description of a state.

Medical Assistance in DyingCommittees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

11:30 a.m.

NDP

The Assistant Deputy Speaker NDP Carol Hughes

The important thing seems to be the way the word is used. I simply want to make sure that no personal attack is being made. It is better to attack a government's policies than to attack an individual. I appear to have misinterpreted the word. A number of interpretations are possible. If I interpreted it incorrectly, I apologize.

The hon. member for Mirabel on a point of order.

Medical Assistance in DyingCommittees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

11:30 a.m.

Bloc

Jean-Denis Garon Bloc Mirabel, QC

Madam Speaker, with all due respect, I think that this is an important addition to the debate on this point of order. In his speech, the parliamentary secretary said that he was not up to date, had not read Bill C‑390, and was unaware.

Members cannot do indirectly what they cannot do directly. Since the parliamentary secretary referred to himself as ignorant, should he withdraw his remarks?

Medical Assistance in DyingCommittees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

11:30 a.m.

NDP

The Assistant Deputy Speaker NDP Carol Hughes

That is not really the right direction to take. I will return to the member for Montcalm.

The hon. member for Montcalm.

Medical Assistance in DyingCommittees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

11:30 a.m.

Bloc

Luc Thériault Bloc Montcalm, QC

Madam Speaker, I was not calling the parliamentary secretary to the government House leader ignorant. I was alluding to his ignorance of Bill C‑390. This ignorance of the bill means he cannot understand that it is the most reasonable solution. We respect the fact that some provincial legislatures need to have more debate within their parliamentary democracy. That does not stop those that are ready and have developed a legislative framework from moving forward.

Contrary to what the member is saying, I know this file. I worked with people from across the country. He is the one who is not in step with Canadians; most of them agree with these advance requests. He does not know that.

Medical Assistance in DyingCommittees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

11:30 a.m.

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux Liberal Winnipeg North, MB

Madam Speaker, the member does not know that. Quite frankly, there are hundreds of private members' bills on the Order Paper, and it is not my responsibility to read 300-plus private members' bills.

There are all sorts of debates that come up in the House of Commons. Every time we have an issue debated, is the member suggesting that whoever is speaking should actually do private member's bill research to make sure that they reference the person who brought in the private member's bill?

The member made reference to the private member's bill in his comment. Out of respect for the member, I made reference to the bill, and I suggested that it might even be a part of the discussion when we have the committee, so I do not know why the Bloc members are so offended. I give my apologies for not knowing the details of all the hundreds of private members' bills, if that is what he is trying to get at. I would challenge any member, with the possible exception of the member for St. Albert—Edmonton, on actually knowing the details of every private member's bill.

Medical Assistance in DyingCommittees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

11:30 a.m.

Conservative

Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Edmonton, AB

Madam Speaker, I will be splitting my time with the member for Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis.

Under the Prime Minister's watch, Canada's MAID regime is broken, and the Prime Minister broke it. His government is the architect of a MAID regime that serves as a warning to governments around the world that are contemplating perhaps implementing a MAID regime of what not to do. The world is taking notice.

These are the headlines in the U.K. over the past two weeks about Canada's MAID regime: “Poor, depressed or lonely in Canada? Why not let us kill you”, “Assisted dying ‘abused’ in Canada, admits group that helped legalise it”, “I went for a mastectomy and they offered me assisted dying, Canadian cancer patient reveals”, “Poor at risk of being coerced into assisted dying in Canada”, “Canada's assisted death rush is a grim warning”, “Euthanasia doctors in Canada struggle with the ethics of killing vulnerable patients”, “Dark lessons from Canada” and “Once 'assisted dying' is legal, the boundaries of what is permissible expand”. These are out of the Telegraph, the Times of London, the Independent and The Critic, over just the past two weeks.

UN experts, including the UN Special Rapporteur on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities, have condemned the Prime Minister's MAID regime. Here at home, virtually every disabilities rights organization has been sounding the alarm for years that the lives of persons living with disabilities are uniquely at risk after the government recklessly removed any connection between the foreseeability of death and eligibility for MAID. For years, there have been credible reports of widespread abuse, non-compliance with the law and persons who were administered MAID under highly questionable circumstances, to put it mildly.

In the face of those credible and disturbing reports, the response of the Prime Minister was to accuse those who were sounding the alarm that vulnerable persons were falling through the cracks as being blinded by ideology. How callous on the part of the Prime Minister and how ironic, because it is not those who are calling the alarm who are ideological but the Prime Minister himself.

If there was any doubt about the credibility of those reports of abuse and non-compliance, those have surely been put to rest in the face of the bombshell report of two weeks ago from the Ontario MAID Death Review Committee, out of the Ontario Coroner's Office. I emphasize that this is a committee composed of medical professionals and legal experts, as well as MAID assessors. The report found that vulnerable persons face potential coercion and undue influence to seek MAID. The report identifies a number of cases in Ontario where persons received MAID who likely did not qualify under the law and where there was evidence of elements of coercion leading to their deaths.

I will cite a few examples. One was a 40-year-old Ontario man who received MAID after his psychiatrist suggested it. The MAID practitioner who administered MAID drove him out to a location to administer MAID. The committee, in its report, said that that may have “created pressure and gave rise to a perception of hastening a person towards death.”

Another Ontario man received MAID. He had, only a year before, attempted to end his life. He suffered from ulcers, had suicidal ideation and severe personality disorder. In all likelihood, he did not qualify under the law but he received MAID. In another case, an Ontario man was convinced that he had suffered from a vaccine injury. He received MAID. A post-mortem, however, found no pathological findings in that regard. There is the disturbing case of a 50-year-old London, Ontario, woman who received MAID due to a lack of adequate housing for her to live in a home having regard for her symptoms of multiple chemical sensitivity syndrome. There are many other disturbing cases.

Alarm bells should be going off at the Department of Health and the Department of Justice but instead these shocking findings have been met with silence on the part of the Minister of Health and the Minister of Justice. It is as if they do not care.

The report found that among those who received MAID, who were not terminally ill, they disproportionately came from Ontario's most deprived communities, leading the committee in its report to suggest that “MAID could be the option of least resistance and be used to end lives when social policies have failed them.”

The report identified widespread doctor shopping, persons who were turned down and who went to another medical practitioner until they got the result that they wanted. On that point, it should not come as a surprise, given that doctor shopping has been a well-known loophole in the law. It is a loophole that the government has failed to close and it is a loophole that has become the standard to be abused, abused by none other than CAMAP, the body that is supposedly responsible for developing training for MAID assessors, a body that has been tasked by the government to develop the MAID curriculum and a body that has received millions of taxpayer dollars from the government.

At a CAMAP seminar, radical and infamous MAID activist Jocelyn Downie actually encouraged doctor shopping. She said, “You can ask as many clinicians as you want or need.” At another seminar, she said, “Disagreement doesn't mean you must stop.”

Those are chilling words and illustrate how embedded abuse is in the system after nine years of the Liberals. Over the past nine years, the Liberals have failed to establish robust safeguards to protect the vulnerable. What safeguards they have put in place, they have systematically dismantled over the past number of years, all while turning a blind eye to reports of abuse and non-compliance, rendering the government and the Prime Minister complicit in that abuse and non-compliance.

As a result of the government's recklessness and negligence, the lives of the poor, the disabled, and, if the Liberals get their way, soon the mentally ill have fallen and will continue to fall through the cracks. MAID, after nine years of the Prime Minister is the very antithesis of what is humane and compassionate.

Medical Assistance in DyingCommittees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

11:40 a.m.

Bloc

Luc Thériault Bloc Montcalm, QC

Madam Speaker, I often listen to what my colleague has to say. I served with him on the Special Joint Committee on Medical Assistance in Dying. He seems to be an expert on scenarios that need to be examined carefully. It is okay to be a whistle-blower, but for the benefit of the people in the House, I would ask him to table the documents he mentioned. That would be interesting. I would love to read them.

The fact remains that, during the committee's deliberations, the only doctors who appeared and said that they were trying to change patients' minds were those who oppose MAID. They admitted that they were trying to discourage patients and said they were successfully changing their minds.

I pointed out that that was against the law, against Quebec's medical assistance in dying legislation and the Quebec college of physicians' code of ethics, and that did not bother them. Since this is a provincial responsibility, I would hope that the Government of Ontario has taken legal action against those who committed the acts the member talked about.

Madam Speaker, on a point of order, you have been waving at me for a while now, but I have not seen anyone else rise to speak.

Medical Assistance in DyingCommittees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

11:45 a.m.

NDP

The Assistant Deputy Speaker NDP Carol Hughes

True, no one has risen yet, but it has been over a minute and a half since the hon. member started asking his question.

Medical Assistance in DyingCommittees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

11:45 a.m.

An hon. member

Oh, oh!

Medical Assistance in DyingCommittees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

11:45 a.m.

NDP

The Assistant Deputy Speaker NDP Carol Hughes

Order. I recognized the hon. member, and he rose. Other members may wish to ask questions, too. If not, the hon. member may ask another question. The hon. member for Montcalm has been speaking for over a minute and a half, and the hon. member for St. Albert—Edmonton has only five minutes for questions and comments.

The hon. member for Montcalm.

Medical Assistance in DyingCommittees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

11:45 a.m.

Bloc

Luc Thériault Bloc Montcalm, QC

Madam Speaker, I am asking for fair treatment. You are breaching my privilege, and not for the first time. I was 30 seconds in when you signalled to me to speed up, but the custom here is to see how many people have risen so they can be given the floor. I am calling you to order, Madam Speaker, because you do that to me all the time.

Medical Assistance in DyingCommittees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

11:45 a.m.

NDP

The Assistant Deputy Speaker NDP Carol Hughes

Order. As I said, we have five minutes for questions and comments. We are now at three minutes and 19 seconds. The clock has been stopped. The hon. member needs to be quick if he wants to finish his question. I will see if any other members of the House wish to speak. Perhaps they wanted to let the hon. member ask the first question. I do not know. As I said, I am trying to be fair to everyone in terms of speaking time. If the hon. member can finish his question, I will ask that he be given an answer.

The hon. member for Montcalm seems to have finished asking his question.

The hon. member for St. Albert—Edmonton.