Debates of Oct. 7th, 2024

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs

[Chris Warkentin, Conservative, Grande Prairie—Mackenzie, AB]

Madam Speaker, the heckling continues. As a matter of fact, I am hearing the Liberals saying that they want to speak to this. I know that they do, because there are backbencher Liberals over there who did not get elected for this to happen. They have no idea why their counterparts in cabinet and the Prime Minister allowed it to happen. They did not get elected so Liberal insiders could sign cheques for themselves in the amount of $400 million.

What we could not do as a nation with 400 million bucks. That is big money where I come from.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[Chris Warkentin, Conservative, Grande Prairie—Mackenzie, AB]

Madam Speaker, I hear some Liberals say that it is nothing. I do remember when governments worried about every dollar, dime, nickel and penny that was spent to ensure that they got the best return for the people from whom the money had been taken. It is unbelievable that we have now gotten to a point where $400 million here or a billion dollars there goes into the ether and Canadians live in a more difficult and precarious place than they have in over a decade.

When we look at the stats about the last decade that have been released over the last number of months, we see an incredible story that is heartbreaking to anyone who wants to cheer for this country. The gross domestic product per capita has nearly stagnated over a decade in this country. In the past, Canada's GDP has always kept pace with that of the United States, as our economies are so closely aligned.

We have general commodities that have always been closely aligned to the United States. We have products that they want. They have economies and production of the products that we produce, so there have been a lot of reasons that for nearly a century, our economies have stayed relatively aligned. When theirs goes up, ours goes up, and when theirs goes down, ours goes down. We have always been pretty much linked.

However, over a decade, it has been incredible to watch the stats as our GDP per capita has stagnated while the Americans' has grown by nearly 20%. That has amounted to the average worker in Canada versus the average worker in the United States having a differential of $20,000 in buying power when all things are considered, including the value of our dollar. There has never been such a spread since the Second World War.

We have not only seen our people being paid less over the last decade, but we have also seen unprecedented growth in the price of our food, housing and utilities, our gas and electricity, in this country. What we have now is a situation where, under the NDP-Liberal government, life has become difficult for everybody.

What the government often likes to say is that there are winners and losers in the economy and we just have to balance it out. However, when we look at the entire size of the pie divided by the number of people who need to eat that pie, everybody's slice in this country has gotten smaller over the last decade—

[An hon. member]

You are describing capitalism.

[Chris Warkentin, Conservative, Grande Prairie—Mackenzie, AB]

Madam Speaker, now a member of the NDP is yelling at me, saying that this is capitalism. That is what it is. What is incredible is that it has been under the co-operation with the NDP that we have seen the reduction in the size of the pie and the amount that each person gets to eat. The experiment has gone completely off the rails.

It has been unbelievable to watch the New Democrats agree time and time again, even as they see the evidence of everybody having to live with less. The New Democrats cheer it on and keep supporting it. New Democrats continue to see the people who live within their communities struggle more and more. What the New Democrats have done time and time again is double down. They say, “Tax the people more. Take more from the people who live on limited incomes.” What the NDP has been cheerleading for is an increase, a quadrupling, of the carbon tax in this country.

[An hon. member]

Tax the corporations.

[Chris Warkentin, Conservative, Grande Prairie—Mackenzie, AB]

Madam Speaker, what is unbelievable is that the hon. member from the NDP is yelling, “Tax the corporations.” What is incredible is that the rich are paying less today than they did a decade ago. The average person who has to pay the bills is paying more. Why is everyone paying more and getting less?

It is because of the very few who are getting ahead and getting more. They are the Liberal insiders, the folks who are getting the $400-million payouts. This is unprecedented in this country. There was a time when Canadians would not stand for that and when their representatives in the House would not stand for it.

However, the New Democrats are claiming that they are there for the small guy. They, number one, endorsed the program of giving massive corporate handouts to large multinational corporations. They have supported that again and again under the government. So much of the money that is being collected in higher taxes is being funnelled here to Ottawa, only to be distributed amongst those people who are most closely connected to the Liberal Party, those who have the greatest lobbyists.

There is $21 billion of the money being sent to Ottawa on an annual basis that is going to Liberal insiders and consultants in the government. Imagine that. When we talk about $400 million in the program and the Liberals' refusing to turn over the evidence, having been found guilty of 186 conflicts of interest, as well as the many cases where the individuals who got money were not even eligible for the program, we know that it is just the tip of the iceberg.

It is heartbreaking to watch people struggle from coast to coast. I have heard, time and time again, that people just wonder where the money has gone. They are paying more and getting less. They are working hard and not getting ahead.

We now have the evidence of what was happening. The audit was an administrative one. In 82% of the spot audits that were done, the government was found to be in violation. What has not been done yet is a criminal audit. That is why it is essential that the documentation that the government is withholding from the RCMP be released to the RCMP. If anybody is ever going to be held accountable for theft at this level, it will be because the RCMP was able to do its work.

[An hon. member]

Oh, oh!

[Chris Warkentin, Conservative, Grande Prairie—Mackenzie, AB]

Madam Speaker, the hon. member from the Liberals is yelling, “Let them.” The RCMP cannot do its job if it does not have the evidence, and the government knows that. The government has used the protection of cabinet confidences to keep it out of legal trouble in the past. The Liberals will use whatever tool of government they can possibly use to ensure that the RCMP cannot do its job. That is why Parliament has had to take on the responsibility of ensuring, through the power that is bestowed on us on behalf of our constituents, that the documents be released to the RCMP.

We are not saying to publish them in the newspaper. We are saying to hand them over to the RCMP. I would think a government that believes in institutions would be rushing to do that, unless it had something to hide. We know the Liberals do not believe in institutions. We know they have something to hide. That is why they refuse to let these documents be released.

I believe it is incumbent on us as parliamentarians to take our responsibilities into our hands and demand that the Liberals produce these documents, as the Speaker has ruled, and ensure the RCMP can have them so it can finally do the work of investigating this massive scandal.

[Bardish Chagger, Liberal, Waterloo, ON]

Madam Speaker, I have had exchanges in this debate, and a constituent from Waterloo just asked me to ask about Dean Del Mastro, the former Canadian MP who was “convicted of cheating during the 2008 federal election and covering up his crime”, as The Canadian Press notes. “He was granted bail...but not before spending a night in jail after being marched to a waiting van wearing handcuffs and leg shackles—TV cameras rolling all the while.” Canadians remember this.

My constituent asked me to put on the record that Vern White, a Conservative senator who spent 25 years in the RCMP and served as the chief of police for the Ottawa Police Service, said, “I was in policing for 32 years, I don't think I've put leg shackles on a person in my life—and I've probably done 29 people convicted of murder.” This constituent noted my questions to the Conservative who spoke previously and asked me to repeat the same two questions.

As to my first question, it appears that members from multiple parties definitely want to see a question be called so that PROC can do its work, because the debate does not end here; there is more work to do. Does the member agree that this question of privilege should be referred to PROC?

As to the second question I asked of the Conservative who spoke previously, which my constituent would like repeated, can the RCMP request these documents on its own or is it only through the House of Commons that it can receive them?

[Chris Warkentin, Conservative, Grande Prairie—Mackenzie, AB]

These are important questions, Madam Speaker. Can the RCMP get these documents without the government releasing them? The short answer is no. The RCMP cannot get unredacted documentation, and this is important. The hon. member is shaking her head as if this is news to her. This is exactly why we are here. It is what brought us to this point.

The Speaker has ruled, exactly to this point, that the complete documentation has not been sent over. The reason is that the documents have been redacted, meaning that important evidentiary documentation was not included. The RCMP was not able to receive the full unredacted documentation.

It is interesting that the hon. member talks about politicians walking off in handcuffs. We currently have a member of this House, the Minister of Environment, who was marched off in handcuffs before he entered this place. I think that it is very interesting.

[An hon. member]

Oh, oh!

[Chris Warkentin, Conservative, Grande Prairie—Mackenzie, AB]

Madam Speaker, I know the hon. member is heckling me having been reminded of that. It is disappointing to her, and maybe she is learning it for the first time. There is no—

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès), Liberal, Alexandra Mendes]

I will ask hon. members to not have conversations and sidebars and heckle while someone is trying to answer a question.

The hon. member for Grande Prairie—Mackenzie.

[Chris Warkentin, Conservative, Grande Prairie—Mackenzie, AB]

Madam Speaker, the member for Waterloo is very disappointed by the facts. The fact is—

[Bardish Chagger, Liberal, Waterloo, ON]

Madam Speaker, on a point of order, I do not need somebody telling me how I feel in this House. I would ask him to stay focused on the debate at hand.

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès), Liberal, Alexandra Mendes]

I would like the hon. member to answer the question so we can go to another one.

[Chris Warkentin, Conservative, Grande Prairie—Mackenzie, AB]

Madam Speaker, you asked her several times to quit heckling. I assumed she was disappointed with the results.

The fact is that crime is up under the government. As a matter of fact, what is heartbreaking is that more people are not being arrested for the crimes being committed across this country. They should be marched away to prison, not just returned back to the streets. That includes the white-collar crimes that we are seeing so evident in the government.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Madam Speaker, I thank my colleague for his speech, but after listening to all this today, I cannot help but think that there is something wrong with the entire federal system. Let me explain. If the government keeps interfering this much in Quebec's areas of jurisdiction or refuses to grant the transfers requested by Quebec and the provinces, for example in health care, we are headed straight for disaster with the fiscal imbalance, which is plunging Quebec and the provinces into a much more difficult financial situation.

Another question in this debate has to do with what the government is doing with our money. For example, our money is being put into this foundation, which has turned out to be a failure, somewhere our money should not have been invested. The problem is that it has not worked for a long time. I will give an example. From 2002 to 2013, an expert study was conducted on federal interference in the health and social services sector, a sector that is crucial right now and that needs these transfers badly. It was finally proven that, during the years when the Conservatives were in power, 37 federal programs interfered in health care. The government is trying to interfere in certain areas of jurisdiction, but it is not transferring the necessary funds.

I am not sure where this federal system is taking us. Frankly, in recent years, we have seen governments come and go, yet the situation remains problematic. It does not change.

[Chris Warkentin, Conservative, Grande Prairie—Mackenzie, AB]

Madam Speaker, there is no question that we have seen the most centralizing government under the NDP-Liberals over the last nine years. It has been noted that it is not just the Government of Quebec fighting the government. Again and again, provincial governments across this country have been forced to take the Liberal-NDP government to court. Take the imposition of the carbon tax, which has devastated the futures of so many Canadians. Premiers across the country banded together to fight this intrusion into what should be provincial jurisdiction. It is the imposition of what is very unethical taxation, with massive taxes on those who can least afford it.

My hon. colleague asked where the money goes. Unfortunately, we are finding time and time again that the money is lining the pockets of Liberal insiders. In this case, it is $400 million, but we know there is $21 billion going to insider consultants in this city. It is unbelievable. Imagine how much better off we would be if $21 billion less was collected from the Canadian people. That money could be invested in education, our children's futures and nourishing families. We could be investing in our communities. Consider small businesses and the amount of money they could invest to create employment opportunities and grow communities. It is $21 billion, and that is just the tip of the iceberg.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Madam Speaker, we are all in agreement on this motion and believe in cracking down on Liberal scandals. That was not the opinion of the Conservatives, though, when they were in power.

The member was talking about taxpayers' money. He would be aware of the various scandals, so I just want to mention a few of them that the Conservatives blocked Parliament and committees from ever getting to the bottom of. There was the ETS scandal of $400 million, the G8 misspending of $1 billion, the F-35 procurement scandal of untold billions of dollars, the $2.2 billion for the Phoenix pay system, and the anti-terrorism funding, with no clear paper trail, of $3.1 billion. That is a lot of taxpayer money, and the Conservatives refused at committee and refused in Parliament to let us get to the bottom of things.

Are the Conservatives now willing to acknowledge that not only did they screw up terribly, but their scandals were atrocious and they should have allowed Parliament and parliamentary committees to get to the bottom of each and every one?

[Chris Warkentin, Conservative, Grande Prairie—Mackenzie, AB]

Madam Speaker, just because the NDP calls something a scandal does not make it a scandal. What is remarkable—

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès), Liberal, Alexandra Mendes]

Order.

The hon. member for Grande Prairie—Mackenzie has the floor.