House of Commons Hansard #370 of the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was conservative.
Anita Anand LiberalPresident of the Treasury Board and Minister of Transport
Mr. Speaker, I have the honour to table, in both official languages, the supplementary estimates (B), 2024-25.
Kevin Lamoureux LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons
Mr. Speaker, pursuant to Standing Order 36(8)(a), I have the honour to table, in both official languages, the government's response to 37 petitions. These returns will be tabled in an electronic format.
Jamie Schmale Conservative Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON
Madam Speaker, I move that the second report of the Standing Committee on Indigenous and Northern Affairs, presented on Monday, April 25, 2022, be concurred in.
I thank the member for Sarnia—Lambton for being the seconder on this motion, as well as the member for Battle River—Crowfoot who was right there.
This is an important issue. The second report of Standing Committee on Indigenous and Northern Affairs is entitled, “Barriers to Economic Development in Indigenous Communities” and it was tabled back in April 2022.
The report's study highlights the ongoing challenges faced by indigenous peoples in Canada in achieving economic development, despite their right to self-determination. First nations, Inuit and Métis communities continue to experience significant socio-economic disparities when compared with non-indigenous people. This includes lower incomes, education levels, employment rates and property values.
The committee concluded that these disparities are largely the result of historical and systemic inequalities further exacerbated by federal policies and regulations.
In February 2022, the Standing Committee on Indigenous and Northern Affairs initiated a study aimed at identifying the barriers to indigenous economic development and exploring ways to eliminate them. Addressing these barriers could not only enhance outcomes for indigenous communities, but also contribute significantly to Canada's economy, potentially adding $30 billion to the national GDP by closing the socio-economic gap between indigenous and non-indigenous populations.
Witnesses to the study identified several critical barriers to indigenous economic development, including limited access to capital, inadequate infrastructure and, in some cases, a lack of capacity. These challenges are deeply rooted in the history of colonialism and the ongoing failure to fully recognize indigenous jurisdiction. While many—
Maxime Blanchette-Joncas Bloc Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC
Madam Speaker, I rise on a point of order.
I would ask for the unanimous consent of the House for my vote to count. I was unable to vote the last time.
Indigenous and Northern AffairsCommittees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings
The Assistant Deputy Speaker Carol Hughes
Does the House agree to allow the hon. member's vote to count?
Indigenous and Northern AffairsCommittees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings
Some hon. members
No.
Indigenous and Northern AffairsCommittees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings
Jamie Schmale Conservative Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON
Madam Speaker, as I stated, several witnesses to this study identified several critical barriers to indigenous economic independence and development. We are talking about the issues of limited access to capital, inadequate infrastructure and, in some cases, lack of capacity. Of course, we go on to say that many indigenous communities are already working on their own solutions to these issues and they require further supports from the Government of Canada.
Indigenous peoples have long been excluded from key decision-making processes, which has hindered their ability to fully participate in economic development. Clarence T. Jules, otherwise known as Manny Jules to many, chief commissioner of the First Nations Tax Commission, pointed out that indigenous peoples have lost control over their fiscal powers and lands as a result of these historical exclusions. Infrastructure is essential for driving indigenous economic development, serving as a backbone of a functional economy.
Before I continue on with the reports, I would like to remind people that I am splitting my time with the hon. member for Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan.
Experts such as Clint Davis from Nunasi Corporation and Ernie Daniels of the First Nations Finance Authority have underscored the importance of closing the significant infrastructure gap, estimated at about $30 billion, between first nations and other Canadian communities. The Nunavut infrastructure gap report, for example, highlights critical shortages in water, housing, broadband and energy systems. The overall infrastructure gap for indigenous communities there could be as high as $70 billion.
Housing, of course, is another urgent issue. Shannin Metatawabin from the National Aboriginal Capital Corporations Association has proposed the creation of an indigenous housing fund in partnership with aboriginal financial institutions. This fund would help secure financing for housing in indigenous communities.
Similarly, Grand Chief Jerry Daniels of the Southern Chiefs' Organization Inc. recommended offering long-term loan guarantees to support capital projects, including housing initiatives. To help bridge the infrastructure gap, Daniels has suggested exploring monetization as a funding approach. This method, commonly used by municipalities to finance projects, involves issuing debentures to raise capital for infrastructure and economic development. Daniels also proposed a pilot project to replace diesel generation in remote communities potentially funded through this model. This approach could not only reduce dependence on federal funding, but also provide a sustainable, clean energy solution while testing innovative financing strategies at a minimal cost to the government.
The committee was informed that administrative obstacles pose significant challenges to indigenous economic development, especially when it comes to accessing public funding. Witnesses highlighted issues such as time-consuming and repetitive processes of submitting applications, as well as confusion around program eligibility requirements. To address these challenges, Harold Calla from the First Nations Financial Management Board proposed a pilot project aimed at streamlining administrative functions for smaller communities. Some of those smaller communities can lack the resources to manage such tasks efficiently.
Furthermore, Tabatha Bull from the Canadian Council for Aboriginal Business recommended the creation of a navigator position to assist indigenous businesses in navigating government programs and grant applications. This role would help entrepreneurs identify relevant funding opportunities and support a need that has been frequently emphasized by indigenous business owners.
Witnesses also emphasized that the current funding for indigenous economic development is inadequate and often lacks the structure needed to foster long-term growth. Regional Chief Teegee called for a shift away from short-term program funding, advocating for more substantial and predictable financial support, particularly for areas like first nations policing. He stressed that this approach would also be extended to economic development initiatives.
Access to capital and equity was identified as another key barrier to indigenous economic progress.
Grand Chief Daniels of the Southern Chiefs' Organization highlighted that, without equity, indigenous communities face significant challenges in launching and sustaining wealth-building ventures. Securing capital, particularly for large-scale projects in sectors like energy, mining and agriculture, remains difficult due to historical disadvantages and bureaucratic obstacles. Chief Commissioner Manny Jules pointed out that indigenous peoples face a $175-billion gap in access to capital. Several leaders also underscored the mutual benefits of improving access to capital.
Mr. Metatawabin announced that indigenous communities represent profitable investment opportunities. Although progress has been made, such as through impact benefit agreements, communities still encounter financial barriers that prevent full participation in major projects. Traditional lenders are unwilling to finance equity, leaving communities either unstable or unable to secure necessary funds or forced to accept costly, unfavourable terms.
Several witnesses emphasized the need to increase indigenous participation in public procurement and highlighted the ongoing barriers to achieving this very goal. In April 2022, the Minister of Indigenous Services announced that 32 federal departments would be required to allocate at least 5% of federal contracts to indigenous-owned, indigenous-led businesses.
However, since then, the program has faced significant shortcomings. There have been reports of companies and individuals exploiting the procurement strategy for indigenous businesses, falsely claiming indigenous status in order to secure contracts. Some have even gone so far as to submit fraudulent documents, such as a picture of a rabbit, to qualify for the program.
A particularly troubling issue involves the employment minister's past business dealings, specifically his connection to Global Health Imports. The company, co-owned by the employment minister, falsely represented itself as a wholly indigenous-owned business in order to obtain government contracts through Canada's indigenous procurement programs, programs designed to benefit indigenous communities. Such misrepresentation undermines the very purpose of the programs, which are intended to support indigenous peoples and businesses.
I could go on, but I will just wrap up by saying that there are many examples of indigenous entrepreneurship and initiative. Conservatives are inspired by their vision and their drive. A future Conservative government will partner with indigenous communities to realize their aspirations, and we will be laser-focused in fostering economic growth and creating opportunities for indigenous communities.
Indigenous and Northern AffairsCommittees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings
Winnipeg North Manitoba
Liberal
Kevin Lamoureux LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons
Madam Speaker, there are many, many different reports, well over 100 reports that the member could actually call up for a concurrence debate. I would ultimately argue that this is just a carry-on of the multi-million dollar game that the Conservatives continue to play to prevent the House from being able to debate legislation, have opposition days and so forth.
Can the hon member identify why it is that they have decided, as I believe that it has been on the books for quite a while now, to call up this particular report?
Jamie Schmale Conservative Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON
Madam Speaker, I would not call indigenous entrepreneurship and the struggles indigenous people are having accessing government programs a game. I am simply reminding the government that indigenous peoples have long been excluded from key decision-making events. An indigenous procurement program, which is supposed to uplift and benefit indigenous businesses, is now being taken advantage of, or at least it seems that way, by the Liberal employment minister, who checked off a box claiming to be indigenous but with no real evidence to even back that up. In fact, even in his own words, he claims he is not indigenous.
Again, there is no shame on that side of the aisle, where the Liberals would rather push down indigenous-owned businesses and indigenous people in order to enrich themselves.
Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON
Madam Speaker, one of the issues we have dealt with in the northern Treaty 9 region is the incredible inequity faced in the communities themselves. In Attawapiskat, people are literally living almost on top of each other. There are no other communities up there except the Cree, yet the federal government and the provincial government of Doug Ford just refused to sit down to talk about a reserve extension.
However, when De Beers went up to open a diamond mine, all the permitting happened very quickly. What ended up happening was that there was within the community a sense that if the company was coming simply to extract the resources, the government was willing to come to the table. However, when there were basic issues like housing and the right to expand the reserves so we could build livable communities, neither the province, particularly Doug Ford, nor the federal government has come to the table. There are now lawsuits saying that they are going to stop economic development until they get those basic issues of inequity dealt with.
Jamie Schmale Conservative Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON
Madam Speaker, the member for Timmins—James Bay fails to recognize the fact that the chief and the band of Attawapiskat are asking for long-term funding commitments. I actually met with the chief of Attawapiskat not too long ago, and she was pointing out that with long-term predictable funding, they could use some of the programs like the First Nations Financial Management Board, the First Nations Finance Authority and others to address their infrastructure gap and the needs that the member opposite talked about, like housing. The list goes on.
Unfortunately, the member continues to forget that he is a member of a federal Parliament and that actually the federal Liberals are the government he continues to prop up, despite the fact that the long-term predictable funding, which Attawapiskat is asking for, is not being addressed. He should actually figure out where his priorities lie, in my opinion.
Andréanne Larouche Bloc Shefford, QC
Madam Speaker, the discussion we are having this afternoon is very interesting.
At the Standing Committee on the Status of Women, we carried out a study on women's economic empowerment. We are trying to find ways to help indigenous women take better control of their lives. However, we are seeing that there are many barriers related to this and other issues because of the Indian Act, which hinders some businesses.
To help lift indigenous women and girls out of poverty and violence, we need to empower them economically. I would like to hear my colleague's comments on this very specific aspect of the issue. How can we help more indigenous women become business owners and become economically empowered?
Jamie Schmale Conservative Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON
Madam Speaker, I do agree that the Indian Act is a horrible piece of legislation, and I think we need to find ways to free up indigenous communities or first nations communities from the Indian Act.
I have talked about access to capital and getting the Ottawa-knows-best attitude out of the way so indigenous people can thrive and prosper without asking for money back, in some cases from Ottawa, money that is taken out of their community, so they can start or enhance programs like economic development or infrastructure. The list goes on.
Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB
Madam Speaker, at this point there can be very little doubt that the Liberal Minister of Employment, who is the member for Edmonton Centre and Alberta's only member of the Liberal cabinet, willfully pretended to be indigenous. He should not be in cabinet. Of course, I know there are slim pickings among Alberta Liberals. They are either with the pretender or with the porch pirate, but the minister certainly should be out of cabinet.
As a consequence of his pretense, the company that he co-owned also pretended to be indigenous-owned, and this pretense was used to advance the minister's political image and potentially to advance his private commercial interests as well. Now that he has been found out, the minister should offer a more fulsome and sincere apology than the one he offered on Friday, and he should resign or be removed from cabinet.
There is an Instagram post that the Liberal Party put out in 2016, one of many examples of things published at the time and since, that makes very clear how the minister was being positioned. The post in question proudly highlights that apparently the Liberals had elected the largest number of indigenous MPs ever and includes a picture that shows the indigenous Liberal caucus, photos of nine MPs, one of whom is the current Minister of Employment.
The minister has most recently claimed that he participated in the activities of the indigenous Liberal caucus but only as an ally. In other words, he says he never pretended to be indigenous; he just happened to be the one and only white guy who happened to be invited to an organization that identified as the indigenous Liberal caucus. Obviously, that does not pass a pretty basic smell test.
There is a post saying that the Liberals had elected a significant number of indigenous MPs. It is accompanied by a collection of photos of MPs. That would surely be designed to give the impression that those MPs are indigenous. Why in the world would the minister be the one white guy in an otherwise all-indigenous club that was repeatedly publicly identified as in an all-indigenous club, unless he was trying to create the impression that he was indigenous?
However, we do not even need Liberal Party social media posts in order to see the problem; let us look at the minister's own words in the House. In 2016, he described himself as an “adopted Cree”. In 2018, he switched to calling himself a “non-status adopted Cree” and a “member of the indigenous caucus”. As recently as a year ago, the minister told the House that his Cree name means “strong eagle man”. There can surely be no doubt what this was supposed to convey, even as he was also talking about Métis family members and admitting, alternatively, that he was neither.
The thing is that in listening to the minister's damage control now, he sounds a lot like the Prime Minister. When pressed on the point of misidentification, at a press conference on Friday, he said that on the one hand, the Liberal Party had misunderstood, that he apologized if anyone was confused and that he is learning about his family history in real time. He did not at any point actually admit wrongdoing. He later said he was going to continue the journey and will share this journey with Canadians as he continues down that path.
The minister sounded much like a Prime Minister, who thought a groping scandal was just a matter of someone experiencing things differently and who thought his own repeated wearing of racist costumes was a learning opportunity for the rest of us. The minister says he is on a journey, but actually I think the journey that most people want the minister to take is first to the backbenches and then out of Parliament entirely.
Ahmed Hussen Liberal York South—Weston, ON
Madam Speaker, the following questions will be answered today: Nos. 3003, 3010, 3019, 3024, 3026, 3031, 3033 and 3036.
Also, if the government's responses to Questions Nos. 2999 to 3002, 3004 to 3009, 3011 to 3018, 3020 to 3023, 3025, 3027 to 3030, 3032, 3034, 3035, 3037 and 3038 could be made orders for return, these returns would be tabled in an electronic format immediately.
Indigenous and Northern AffairsCommittees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings
Indigenous and Northern AffairsCommittees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings
Some hon. members
Agreed.
Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB
Madam Speaker, I think it is worth recalling that on March 1, 2018, the Minister of Employment told this House, “Never let the truth get in the way of a good story.” He actually said that in the House of Commons. That is what is going on here. The minister from Edmonton did not want to let the truth get in the way of what he thought would be a good political story.
Why exactly were these claims made? Why did the Liberal Minister of Employment falsely claim to be indigenous? Perhaps this is another Liberal example of the Maryam Monsef method of selectively claiming to be unaware of key personal facts in order to help develop a more elaborate origin story.
Once upon a time, there were three brothers, Remus, Romulus and Randy, born of a union between the god Mars and a mortal, nursed in the woods by a wolf. After the brothers grew up, a lethal struggle for dominance ensued, and one of the brothers founded the great city of Rome. After founding Rome, he travelled halfway around the world to join the Liberal cabinet.
In other myths, he is identified as the son of Janus, the Roman god with two faces, although as more comes out, two faces may actually not be enough. He is the man, the myth, the minister: “Never let the truth get in the way of a good story.”
However, efforts at exaggerated personal myth-making may not be all there is to this. At present we are prosecuting the Liberals' indigenous contracting scandal, a scandal in which many companies made false or misleading claims about indigenous identity or developed creative arrangements to position themselves as technically indigenous without actually providing substantive economic benefit or opportunity to indigenous people.
For those who have not been following, the scandal is that Liberals established a 5% target and set-aside. Five per cent of government contracts had to go to indigenous companies, so what necessarily flows from having this kind of target is the need to define what is an indigenous company. This kind of work defining indigenous companies is going on elsewhere, because it is not just governments that are looking to include indigenous businesses with procurement opportunities. Many private sector companies, especially in the energy sector, are looking to procure more from indigenous businesses and include indigenous businesses in their supply chains.
Private sector companies are not looking to just check a legal box. They are doing this voluntarily because it is good business and because it gives impacted communities a greater stake in the success of projects. Private sector proponents, though not perfect, have sought ways to define in an authentic way what are indigenous businesses and the extent to which there are real positive economic impacts in the communities they want to work with.
There are currently various organizations, such as the Canadian Council for Indigenous Business, that work with the private sector to help identify and support indigenous businesses. I have also met with the Indigenous Chamber of Commerce in Winnipeg, which has a rigorous process of assessing whether a business is truly indigenous-owned before it is admitted to its membership roles.
However, bizarrely, the Liberal government chose not to work with existing organizations to draw on the various lists that have been created for indigenous businesses. Instead, it developed its own list, which suspiciously appears to include a number of actors as indigenous businesses that are not on anyone else's list. While many in the private sector want to do this for real, the Liberal government has sought to inflate the number of contracts going to indigenous businesses by including businesses on its list that are not actually indigenous and are not on anyone else's indigenous business list.
The Assembly of First Nations has said that a majority of those getting the 5% set-aside are shell companies. There is abuse of joint ventures and shell companies and outright pretending. In one example in the news recently, a company called the Canadian Health Care Agency, a large non-indigenous company, went into joint venture with one person who was also its employee. The Canadian Health Care Agency was able to get many contracts. It got all of the benefit associated with these so-called joint ventures as a non-indigenous company and was able to deceptively position itself as an indigenous company.
We have been prosecuting this scandal for a while, and the AFN and other indigenous leaders have been so clear that this is a grave problem, an abuse of this policy that the Liberals have turned a blind eye to. However, we did not know until recently that the employment minister's company was actually falsely trying to position itself as indigenous.
With this in mind, as we need to get to the bottom of what's happening, I move that the motion be amended by deleting all of the words after the word “That” and substituting the following: “the second report of the Standing Committee on Indigenous and Northern Affairs—”
Indigenous and Northern AffairsCommittees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings
The Assistant Deputy Speaker Carol Hughes
We have a point of order from the hon. member for Drummond. I think I know what it is about.
Martin Champoux Bloc Drummond, QC
Madam Speaker, I think the member probably knows that there are interpreters who need to be able to do their jobs. When someone tries to beat an Olympic record for speed talking, it makes it a little harder for them to work. If the member could slow down, it would allow the interpreters to carry out their work.
Indigenous and Northern AffairsCommittees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings
The Assistant Deputy Speaker Carol Hughes
The issue is that there may be problems with interpretation because the hon. member is speeding through his amendment. There is still a minute and a half left. I am sure the hon. member can slow down to make sure that everybody in the House is able to hear the amendment.
The hon. member for Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan.
Indigenous and Northern AffairsCommittees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings
November 18th, 2024 / 4:05 p.m.
Conservative
Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB
Madam Speaker, on that point of order, if there is agreement of the House for me to finish the amendment, I am happy to take the time necessary.
Indigenous and Northern AffairsCommittees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings
The Assistant Deputy Speaker Carol Hughes
You will be able to finish the amendment, as you started your amendment before the time had ended. I would say slow down, but not to the point that it slows down the process.
The hon. member for Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan.
Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB
Madam Speaker, my only goal was to ensure we got it in.
I move:
That the motion be amended by deleting all the words after the word “That” and substituting the following:
“the second report of the Standing Committee on Indigenous and Northern Affairs presented on Monday, April 25, 2022, be not now concurred in, but that it be recommitted to the committee for further consideration, with a view to studying the economic and anti-reconciliatory barriers posed by fraudulent bids and applications for procurement opportunities set aside for Indigenous businesses, including those from non-Indigenous-owned companies, provided that, for the purposes of this study:
(a) the following be ordered to appear as witnesses, for at least two hours each, at dates and times to be fixed by the Chair of the committee, but no later than Tuesday, December 17, 2024,
(i) the Minister of Employment, Workforce Development and Official Languages,
(ii) the Minister of Indigenous Services,
(iii) the Minister of Crown-Indigenous Relations,
(iv) the Minister of Public Services and Procurement,
(v) Arianne Reza, Deputy Minister of Public Services and Procurement,
(vi) Catherine Poulin, Assistant Deputy Minister, Departmental Oversight Branch, Department of Public Works and Government Services;
(b) Felix Papineau and Shawna Parker, individuals currently or formerly associated with Global Health Imports, shall each be ordered to appear as witnesses, separately, for at least one hour each, at dates and times to be fixed by the Chair of the committee, but no later than Tuesday, December 17, 2024; and
(c) it be an instruction that the committee,
(i) hold at least four other meetings to receive evidence from Indigenous partners, stakeholders and experts, proposed by the members of the committee,
(ii) report its findings to the House by Friday, January 31, 2025.”