Debates of March 20th, 2024

Question No.2262—

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

With regard to government dealings with BTNX: (a) what are the details of all contracts that government departments or agencies have had with BTNX since January 1, 2020, including, for each, the (i) date, (ii) value, (iii) description of the goods or services, including volume, (iv) manner in which the contract was awarded (i.e. sole-sourced, competitive bid); and (b) what are the details of all grants, contributions, loans, or other funding agreements the government has entered into with BTNX since January 1, 2020, including, for each, the (i) date, (ii) amount of funding, (iii) type of funding, (iv) program under which funding was provided, (v) amount of funding repaid to date, if applicable, (vi) purpose of funding?

(Return tabled)

Questions Passed as Orders for Returns

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Mr. Speaker, I ask that the remaining questions be allowed to stand.

[The Speaker, Liberal, Greg Fergus]

Is it agreed?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

Alleged Refusal by Kristian Firth to Respond to Questions at Committee

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, I listened very closely to what the member put on the record, and it is a great deal of detail. On the other hand, my understanding is that the clerk had put in writing some requests for specific information and that information was provided. Therefore, the written request that came from the clerk of the committee was, in fact, complied with.

The bottom line is that I do not think we are in a comfortable enough position to respond until we have a little more time or enough time to respond in more detail on what is a very important issue.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I found the arguments of my colleague from Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes to be extremely detailed, and I would like to add the NDP's voice to this question of privilege.

The 17th report of the Standing Committee on Government Operations and Estimates was adopted unanimously. The points in the report are very clear, and I will not take much time. Let us look at the big picture. The witness, Mr. Firth, refused to answer legitimate questions directed to him. In our view, this constitutes a prima facie breach of parliamentary privilege and contempt of Parliament. Although it is rare, we have previously seen situations like this. In the vast majority of cases, when witnesses testify before our committees, they give answers and are ready to speak. In this case, it is very clear that the committee found that the witness did not answer any of the very relevant questions about the ArriveCAN app. The committee was seized with this issue and now Parliament is seized with it.

I would like to say that it is clear, when we look at the precedents that have been cited, and I will not repeat all of the various quotes from the procedural manual that governs our activities, that Mr. Firth's refusal to answer those key questions on the ArriveCAN application indicate that this is a breach of privilege and contempt of Parliament. It is clear, in my opinion, that this is an open-and-shut case of privilege. This is something that the Speaker could move to adjudicate in a very timely way.

I would add that the 17th report of the government operations committee is very clear. It was passed unanimously by all members. This is something that does not happen very often, but very clearly, when parliamentary rights to get to the answers on behalf of Canadians are violated, it is something that all members of Parliament should take seriously.

The member for Skeena—Bulkley Valley, who is our representative on that committee, believes as well that this is a case in which answers should have been provided. The fact that Mr. Firth was uncooperative, refusing to provide those answers, is something that should be of concern to all Canadians.

I believe there is a prima facie case of privilege being breached, of contempt of Parliament, and I hope that the Speaker will adjudicate as soon as he feels he has enough information.

[The Speaker, Liberal, Greg Fergus]

I thank the hon. member for New Westminster—Burnaby for his intervention. I will now go to the hon. member for La Prairie, who is rising on the same point.

[Alain Therrien, Bloc, La Prairie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I would just like to mention that the Bloc Québécois reserves the right to respond at a later time, but it will not take very long. We will come back fairly quickly with comments on the point of order raised by our Conservative colleague.

[The Speaker, Liberal, Greg Fergus]

The hon. member for Saanich—Gulf Islands is rising on the same question of privilege.

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Mr. Speaker, having sat through the presentation from the hon. member for Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, I would like to commend him for his thoroughness and for citation of relevant authorities in a fashion that did this place honour.

It is so encouraging to hear a debate, and I am not going to mention others, that is substantive and helpful. On behalf of the Green Party of Canada, I wish to commend the member, and I wish to commend to the Speaker the veracity of his point of order. I completely agree with every word spoken by the member for New Westminster—Burnaby on behalf of the New Democratic Party. The Green Party wishes to be aligned with those comments and the hope that the Speaker will come back and Mr. Firth will stand there and answer some questions.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I will keep my remarks short.

I want to bring to light that I have been involved in a number of committees where we were at the line of an issue of contempt. It is important to put on the record what was explained to us in committee, that we are not a court of law. We may be really angry at government. We may be demanding witnesses. However, we have to do it in a judicious manner, and if there is an issue of contempt, it has to come to the House.

We have been in situations in which we knew we were not getting truthful answers from witnesses. My colleague and I were involved with one, with a certain group of brothers and their chief financial officer. We decided at that moment to actually not go that way, because we had gotten as far as we could as a parliamentary committee, and we felt the evidence stood.

However, the principle of parliamentarians being able to take this to the House has to be protected and preserved. It does not matter when the last time it happened was. What matters is that we have the obligation and the right and the power, when people are being dishonest and not telling the truth to committees, to bring it to the House, whether or not the government at the time likes it. These are tools that parliamentarians have.

Again, we are not a court of law, but we get evidence that we present to Parliament so that Parliament can make decisions and, if something is wrong, it will not happen again.

I trust that the Speaker is going to be very careful and judicious here with respect to the importance of preserving that right of parliamentarians to do their job and not be inhibited just because someone does not believe they are obligated to answer questions. They are obligated to answer questions when it is in the interests of the Canadian public.

[The Speaker, Liberal, Greg Fergus]

I would like to thank the hon. member for Timmins—James Bay and the hon. member for Saanich—Gulf Islands for their interventions, as well as all members. In particular, I would like to thank the member for Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes for bringing forward a very clear presentation.

The member for Winnipeg North requested it, as did the member for La Prairie and the member for Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, who have requested the participation of other members of the Standing Committee on Government Operations and Estimates. I will wait. I hope that these interventions will come fairly quickly.

I must say that the Chair is rather inclined to do everything possible to safeguard the right of members of the House to receive answers from witnesses who appear before a committee.

Following the intervention of the member for Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, I will hope that the members of the government operations committee will quickly intervene and that we will hear from members from the Bloc and from the NDP, as well as from the Liberals, who indicated that they would like to come back on this issue. I guess I am kind of tipping my hand; I am quite disposed to the motion. I look forward to an intervention as soon as possible, so that we can dispense with this matter quickly.

I wish to inform the House that because of the delay, pursuant to Standing Order 30(7), the period provided for Private Members' Business is cancelled. The order is therefore deferred to a future sitting.

Pursuant to order made on Monday, March 18, the House will now resolve itself into committee of the whole to consider Motion No. 36 under Government Business.

(House in committee of the whole on Government Business No. 36, Mr. Greg Fergus in the chair)

Canada—Ukraine Relations

[The Speaker, Liberal, Greg Fergus]

Before we begin this evening's debate, I would like to remind hon. members how the proceedings will unfold.

Each member speaking will be allotted 10 minutes for debate, followed by 10 minutes for questions and comments.

Pursuant to order made on Monday, March 18, members may divide their time with another member. The time provided for the debate may be extended beyond four hours, as needed, to include a minimum of 12 periods of 20 minutes each. The Chair will receive no quorum calls, dilatory motions or requests for unanimous consent.

We will now begin tonight's take-note debate.

[Diane Lebouthillier, Liberal, Gaspésie—Les-Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

moved:

That this committee take note of the Canada-Ukraine relationship and the newly signed strategic security partnership.

[James Maloney, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, I will be sharing my time this evening.

I rise on a topic that I wish I did not have to address. Two years ago, Vladimir Putin launched a full-scale invasion of Ukraine and, with it, unleashed an attack on democracy, freedom and the rules-based international order. Despite Russia's relentless assault, Ukrainians are standing strong, and Canada will stand with them for as long as it takes.

The war continues to touch all of us and the ties between our two countries are strong. We all have friends of Ukrainian heritage. Not only do I have a large Ukrainian community in my constituency of Etobicoke—Lakeshore, but many Ukrainian cultural and religious organizations, as well as the Ukrainian consulate, are located in my riding. I want them to know that I will not abandon them. Canada's support for Ukraine is ongoing and unwavering.

I would like to underline some of the supports. Since the beginning of 2022, Canada has committed over $13.3 billion in funding to support Ukraine. This includes $4 billion in military assistance, such as M777 Howitzers, Leopard 2 main battle tanks, armoured combat support vehicles, ammunition, high-resolution drone cameras, thermal clothing, body armour, fuel and more; $7.4 billion in financial support; $352.5 million in humanitarian assistance, including support for emergency health interventions, protection services and essentials such as shelter, water, sanitation and food; and $186 million in development assistance and funds for the Canada-International Finance Corporation's facility for resilient food systems. We will also contribute $198 million in security and stabilization assistance.

Canadian Armed Forces members are supporting the Armed Forces of Ukraine in the United Kingdom and Poland under Operation Unifier, providing training on a range of military skills. Between 2015 and 2024, Canada trained more than 40,000 members of the Armed Forces of Ukraine as part of this operation. They have also been assisting with the delivery of military aid for Ukraine from Canada and on behalf of our allies and partners. Our support continues.

Last month, Prime Minister Trudeau and the President of Ukraine, Volodymyr Zelenskyy, held a bilateral meeting to discuss—

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[The Speaker, Liberal, Greg Fergus]

It is very important for the member not to refer to sitting members by their names, but by either their titles or their ridings.

[James Maloney, Liberal, Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I apologize.

Our Prime Minister and the President of Ukraine held a bilateral meeting to discuss the situation on the ground and Ukraine's needs over the coming months. The two leaders signed a new, historic agreement on security co-operation between Canada and Ukraine to establish a strategic security partnership.

The agreement builds on the G7 joint declaration of support for Ukraine and outlines key, long-term security commitments for Canada to continue supporting Ukraine as it defends its sovereignty and territorial integrity, protects its people and rebuilds its economy for the future. As part of this commitment, Canada will provide just over $3 billion in critical financial and military support to Ukraine in 2024.

In addition, the Prime Minister announced new support for Ukraine's resilience and recovery efforts. This includes $75 million in peace and security assistance, which includes demining, cyber-support and intelligence support; and cultural support for the completion of the National Museum of the Holodomor-Genocide in Kyiv, helping preserve the memory of victims and survivors of the Holodomor, a systemic and heinous campaign of deliberate starvation by the Soviet regime that killed millions across Ukraine in 1932 and 1933.

The Prime Minister also announced the allocation of funding, up to $39 million, for development assistance to provide access to essential mental health services for vulnerable populations, to help build food systems that are more resilient and to support efforts by local communities toward reconstruction and recovery. There is over $22 million in humanitarian assistance to support trusted United Nations and Red Cross partners in delivering critical assistance, including emergency health interventions, protection services, shelter, water, sanitation and food, as well as the promotion of respect for international humanitarian law. There is also over $18 million in peace, security and stabilization assistance to support projects.

For many Canadians, and especially those of Ukrainian heritage, it is important now more than ever that Ukraine continues to receive the support it needs to fight the war. I was proud to host our Minister of National Defence in my community of Etobicoke—Lakeshore last month to announce that we are providing Ukraine with the drones it needs to protect its troops and the country.

Of course, there is the Canada-Ukraine free trade agreement. Yesterday, I was pleased to join my colleague from Etobicoke Centre and Ihor Michalchyshyn to witness the Senate pass the agreement, despite opposition from the official opposition in the House and the official opposition in the Senate. It was a fundamental way to show solidarity with Ukraine, and I cannot believe the official opposition did not support it. It is shameful.

In short, the federal government stands in full solidarity with the people of Ukraine. There are so many more measures I could discuss, but the bottom line is that we are here, we are with them and we will support them until this is over.

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I listened to my hon. colleague's speech and want to thank him for his support for Ukraine.

We had the Ukrainian ambassador in front of the foreign affairs committee this afternoon. She gave us some very concerning statistics: Ukraine is facing six to seven times the number of shells daily from Russia that Ukraine is directing toward Russia. They have a dire need for 155-millimetre ammunition. There was a discussion at the committee today about the need for increased ammunition.

I know the Government of Canada has recently made announcements about shell production. Could the member tell us what the government's plans are with respect to increasing Canada's 155-millimetre shell production in order to contribute not only to Canada's security but to that of Ukraine?

[James Maloney, Liberal, Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON]

Mr. Chair, Canada's support since the outset of this awful situation has been unconditional and unequivocal. I was not at the committee today to hear the ambassador's testimony, but I can say that her position, which has been unequivocal, is that Canada should support the Canada-Ukraine free trade agreement.

As for the specifics of the member's question on ammunition, I would be happy to speak to him after. I would be happy to try to find that specific information. I do not want to stand before the House and pretend I have specifics that I do not have in answer to a question.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Mr. Chair, like my colleague from the Conservatives, I was at the foreign affairs committee this afternoon as we met with Ukraine's ambassador to Canada. One of the questions I asked her, which I will ask the member as he is a member of the government, was around the loopholes we see within our arms export regime. One thing that I think we all learned in November 2023 was that detonators were going through Kyrgyzstan and being used in Russian mines against Ukrainian people. The last thing I think Canadians want to know is that Canadian parts and components are being used in the very weapons that are being used against Ukrainians.

The New Democrats have long called for the closing of loopholes within our arms regime, and the government has not taken steps to do that. Is there any plan from the government to stop the loopholes that allow dual-use goods to be made into the weapons being used against our allies?

[James Maloney, Liberal, Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON]

Mr. Chair, I thank the member for her continued support for Ukraine in this awful situation.

Again, I was not at the committee this afternoon. However, Canada works day in and day out. The Prime Minister, the defence minister and the foreign affairs minister are in regular, daily contact with their counterparts in Ukraine to make sure the measures that need to be taken are taken, including closing loopholes and preventing the types of activities the member is talking about. I can assure her that the federal government is taking every step and leaving no stone unturned.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Chair, the member made reference to the Canada-Ukraine free trade agreement, an agreement that no doubt sends a very strong and powerful message to the world regarding Ukraine's solidarity movement. One of the big asks was how we could help Ukraine into the future. That is why the President of Ukraine came to Canada to meet with the Prime Minister.

This trade agreement is more than just a physical agreement. There is another aspect to it that I think speaks to our special relationship and being there for Ukraine. I wonder if the member could expand upon the importance of that agreement.