Debates of April 17th, 2024

Sitting Resumed

[Kristian Firth]

Mr. Speaker, I believe that if any wrongdoing is found, there should be repercussions.

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I think Canadians across the country and members of Parliament are disappointed, not just in the dramatic failure of the procurement system in our country to address the real issues of value for money, but in that this sheds light on what has been a terrible instance of reporting missing information and lost invoicing. We do not even know the total amount to date.

This is a serious and grave matter facing our country, one that stems back decades now. We heard testimony at the public accounts committee, of which I am a member, several times. Other contractors spoke to us about the tremendous vulnerability that exists in Canada's procurement system and also exists in the lack of investment in our public sector.

According to The Globe and Mail, for instance, since 2017, GC Strategies has received $46 million in federal funding. The flow of tax dollars to GC Strategies has increased steadily each year, growing from $32.6 million in the 2016-17 fiscal year to $80.3 million in the 2021-22 fiscal year.

According to the Auditor General, GC Strategies' ArriveCAN app cost Canadians almost $60 million. The total is still undetermined due to the lack of documentation and of a paper trail, a serious and grave error in and of itself.

On top of that, we have noticed that this vulnerability of our public service and procurement process has created a system in which insiders are able to profit in extreme amounts because of a system that does not have the proper accountability and does not have the proper follow through, albeit, in this particular instance, that there is a lack of proper procurement.

Canadians are rightly disappointed. Not only that, but they are angry at the very real fact that they wake up every single day, go to work, pay their taxes and do everything right, and then are told that the tax dollars they have worked so hard for have not gone to close in the gaps in social or economic outcomes, or for material benefits for Canadians, but have been going towards a dramatic outsourcing of jobs that Canadians in our public service could do.

I recognize that not all IT services, of course, can be dealt with here at the House of Commons or in our public service, but a great deal of them could.

When did Mr. Firth first start doing contracts and business with the Government of Canada?

[Kristian Firth]

Mr. Speaker, my first contract would have been in 2011.

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

Mr. Speaker, what are the names of Mr. Firth's various companies that have contracted or subcontracted with the Government of Canada since that time?

[Kristian Firth]

Mr. Speaker, I probably cannot remember them all, but I will do the best I can.

Sorry, can I get a qualification for that question, please?

[The Speaker, Liberal, Greg Fergus]

I am not certain what you are asking me, Mr. Firth.

[Kristian Firth]

Mr. Speaker, I just want to ask for a qualification. Should I be speaking about my companies or the companies that we have subcontracted work through?

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I am inquiring as to the names of the companies that he has been the owner or co-owner of since 2011, while he has been doing business with the Government of Canada.

[Kristian Firth]

Mr. Speaker, the only IT staffing firm I have had is GC Strategies, as an owner. We were not part of Coredal.

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

Mr. Speaker, does Mr. Firth believe that the work his company, GC Strategies, has done in relation to ArriveCAN was good money for Canadians' dollars?

[Kristian Firth]

Mr. Speaker, I believe that the team we put forward, again, as attested to by AWS, Microsoft and BDO, were the only ones at that point that had the capacity to build this application, so I would say yes.

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

Mr. Speaker, Mr. Firth, in the past, has spoken about his worries or concerns, or even at times perceived rejection, of the Auditor General's report, in particular to this fact as well in regard to value for money. What does Mr. Firth have to say in relation to the Auditor General's report on value for money?

[Kristian Firth]

Mr. Speaker, I am not questioning the report. Again, it is the inputs that were given to the report. There is a big delta between the $19.1 million the AG's report claimed that we used to build the application versus the $11 million, but because of the financial system and the tagging for other projects associated, because these contracts were pandemic response contracts and were not specific to the ArriveCAN app, I can understand why there is the discrepancy.

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

Mr. Speaker, Canadians know that when our public service does the job, they are doing it knowing the most important piece to that is the outcome for Canadians and making sure that the service is truly up to the standard that Canadians expect. When we outsource that work, when we take that job away from the public sector and when we take it away from those who work for the good of our country, it comes with a price. It comes with commission, and it comes with profit by the private sector in this particular instance. How much money did Mr. Firth take home from these contracts?

[Kristian Firth]

Mr. Speaker, again, I am not being elusive, but I do not have that exact number in front of me. I'm sorry.

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

Mr. Speaker, it would be difficult to not be able to supply such a number when, as a matter of fact, the company would be responsible for issuing invoices or issuing the amount owed to them. It would also be up to an owner of a company to administer and to have paperwork for their employees, including themselves, if they are paid.

Does Mr. Firth suggest that he has not paid himself or that he has not kept track of payments to himself? If not, how can we, in this chamber, get this information, and would he supply it in writing later?

[Kristian Firth]

Mr. Speaker, I can answer that question, but I just do not have the answer in front of me right now. I was not given a set of questions that would be coming at me in the next hour and 20 minutes. I'm sorry.

[The Speaker, Liberal, Greg Fergus]

Mr. Firth, there was a second part to that question.

[Kristian Firth]

Mr. Speaker, can I ask the hon. member to repeat it please?

[The Speaker, Liberal, Greg Fergus]

The clock is stopped.

The hon. member for Edmonton Griesbach.

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

Mr. Speaker, would Mr. Firth supply the amount he took home from government contracts?

[Kristian Firth]

Mr. Speaker, I think that information has been provided to the committee.

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

Mr. Speaker, Mr. Firth and his partner, Mr. Anthony, have both made accusations that the Auditor General's report is false and that she is lying. He gave clarity to my question in relation to some of the numbers supplied. In addition to those numbers that were supplied, what other areas of that report would Mr. Firth contest?

[Kristian Firth]

Mr. Speaker, off the top of my head, the numbers one is the one that has caused the most media attention, so that would be the one I would be more focused on to make sure it was corrected.

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the Office of the Procurement Ombud said that “overly restrictive”, “mandatory [solicitation] criteria...favoured [GC Strategies] for “a $25-million contract”. GC Strategies had been involved in the development of their requirements, which were included by the CBSA in a request for proposal for a contract ultimately won by Mr. Firth.

To be clear, Mr. Firth's company, GC Strategies, by evidence of the ombudsman, participated in the recommendations set out in a request for proposal to which Mr. Firth's company applied and was awarded a contract.

Does Mr. Firth understand that the Auditor General concluded in that investigation that there was no evidence to the effect that GC Strategies supplied a proposal even to get this contract?

Can Mr. Firth please explain how the information was requested, who from the CBSA requested the information related to a contract like the one they were a recipient of, and what aspects of that proposal did Mr. Firth supply for requirement?