Debates of April 17th, 2024

Sitting Resumed

[Kristian Firth]

Mr. Speaker, sorry, I do not understand the question.

[The Speaker, Liberal, Greg Fergus]

We will stop the clock.

I will invite the member for La Prairie to ask his question again.

[Alain Therrien, Bloc, La Prairie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, earlier, the member for Terrebonne asked whether Mr. Firth has ever given any money, benefits in kind, gifts to public servants. The witness said that he had, but only after the contracts were awarded.

Is that accurate?

[Kristian Firth]

Mr. Speaker, we do not give gifts and do bribes to win contracts.

[Alain Therrien, Bloc, La Prairie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the witness mentioned earlier that he had picked up the tab at restaurants or things like that for public servants, but he did that after the contracts were awarded.

Is that true?

[Kristian Firth]

Mr. Speaker, that is correct. Once the contract has been awarded, one wants to have a relationship with the client to understand if one's resources are doing a good job, or, if they are not, to try to pivot and move as fast as possible to replace them. The fact that the invitation went out and the officials showed up suggested that they followed the code of conduct and that they had already asked permission from their superiors.

[Alain Therrien, Bloc, La Prairie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, to the witness, the public servant is the client.

Is that it?

[Kristian Firth]

Mr. Speaker, if we are doing government business, that is correct.

[Alain Therrien, Bloc, La Prairie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, is it possible that when emoluments are given after a contract, they are given before another contract?

[Kristian Firth]

Mr. Speaker, I believe it would be before another contract, but that does not mean it is for me.

[Alain Therrien, Bloc, La Prairie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, there was mutual support between several people like the witness. Is that it?

[Kristian Firth]

Mr. Speaker, it was inaudible for the translator.

[The Speaker, Liberal, Greg Fergus]

I will stop the clock and ask the member to ask the question again.

[Alain Therrien, Bloc, La Prairie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, if I may, I will draw a conclusion based on what we have heard today.

There is nothing unusual in having the Canada Border Services Agency do business with GC Strategies and give it $19 million, without ascertaining that GC Strategies' employees have any exceptional skills or the skills needed to obtain or disclose a contract.

We also have to consider it acceptable for public servants to receive gifts, although it is unclear whether this occurs before or after the contracts are awarded. We also have to accept that GC Strategies helps draft calls for tenders because the Canada Border Services Agency lacks the skill to identify its own needs and criteria when it comes to developing calls for tenders. That is very disturbing. We are being asked to believe that paying someone $84,000 for nothing is normal. The witness actually said that he had not done anything to earn this $84,000, but that it was normal.

Now people are wondering whose fault it is. Perhaps the Canada Border Services Agency is to blame. This may be the tip of the iceberg, but it is not normal. The Auditor General noted that it was the worst record-keeping she had ever seen. That is not normal. Now the Canada Border Services Agency is working on an import registration system, known as CARM. The House of Commons committee has found a number of irregularities. It is worrisome that this agency is continuing its work after what we have heard today.

Let us focus more on the Canada Border Services Agency and the government's responsibility to ensure that that agency is put under third-party management and that steps are taken to recover the taxpayer money that was spent for reasons we do not understand.

[The Speaker, Liberal, Greg Fergus]

Although there might not have been a question, if you would like to make a comment I will allow you to do so at this time.

[Kristian Firth]

Mr. Speaker, I am good.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Mr. Speaker, now that Mr. Firth is aware of the powers of Parliament, I wanted to ask whether he regrets not answering the questions that were asked of him, not once, not twice, but three times at the government operations committee.

[Kristian Firth]

Mr. Speaker, absolutely. I sent that in writing to, I believe, all members of Parliament prior to coming here, with apologies for that.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to know this: Did Mr. Firth meet with any members of Parliament during the process for the RFP for the contract for ArriveCAN or during the contract process?

[Kristian Firth]

Mr. Speaker, no, I did not.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to know this: Has Mr. Firth, outside the committees where he has been brought formally, ever met or spoken with any members of Parliament, regardless of which party?

[Kristian Firth]

Mr. Speaker, can I speak to my counsel for a few seconds, please?

[The Speaker, Liberal, Greg Fergus]

The clock is stopped.

[Kristian Firth]

Mr. Speaker, no, I have not.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Mr. Speaker, just to be clear, Mr. Firth has not had any private conversations, at any point, with any member of Parliament over the period of the committee hearings. I am not talking about at the committees themselves; I am talking about private conversations, hallway conversations, phone calls or anything of that nature.