House of Commons Hansard #341 of the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was farmers.

Topics

Agriculture and Agri-FoodCommittees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

5:40 p.m.

Bloc

Monique Pauzé Bloc Repentigny, QC

Madam Speaker, I listened carefully to my colleague's speech, particularly when he said at the end that a Conservative government will supposedly act quickly to deal with everything that is going on.

Farmers are hurting. They are hurting as a result of flooding and drought. They are hurting because of all the products that they sometimes have to use more and more often because their crops are bad and they are not getting the support they need from the government. I think that food is an essential need. I think that the work of farmers is essential.

When the Conservatives talk about the carbon tax, I would like to know, since they are going to act quickly to solve problems, what they intend to do to really fight climate change, which could impact our food supply.

Agriculture and Agri-FoodCommittees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

5:45 p.m.

Conservative

Richard Lehoux Conservative Beauce, QC

Madam Speaker, it is simple because I was a farmer my whole life. I left the profession just five years ago. I can say that the important thing for farmers right now is to axe the carbon tax, which is having an impact on their day-to-day work. I think the important thing is to work on developing new technologies to improve that.

Until these new technologies are available to our farmers, let us stop placing the burden on them, saying that food produced in Canada is expensive and importing products from other countries.

Agriculture and Agri-FoodCommittees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

5:45 p.m.

NDP

Alexandre Boulerice NDP Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC

Madam Speaker, I am going to ask a question somewhat similar to the one I asked the Bloc Québécois member earlier, concerning the recommendation to pay attention to the management of the temporary foreign worker progra.

Some people want to see temporary immigration to this country lowered. Others say that an exception may be in order, considering the very important role that temporary workers play in the agriculture and agri-food sector. I also hear people in the processing field urge caution, saying that temporary workers are important too. We need them. We need them in construction as well. We need them in the health and social services sector.

I would like to know my colleague's opinion on that. Does he think we should have more, fewer or about the same number of temporary workers?

Agriculture and Agri-FoodCommittees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

5:45 p.m.

Conservative

Richard Lehoux Conservative Beauce, QC

Madam Speaker, obviously, agriculture, agri-food and processing are very important sectors in my region. We have a lot of temporary foreign workers in the agri-food processing sector.

I think we need to better define the categories of workers we want to have. My riding was home to an Olymel slaughterhouse, which shut down about a year ago, affecting over 900 workers, including roughly 200 foreign workers. It is not that we do not have a labour supply of our own, but clearly, those folks were willing to come and work in our slaughterhouses.

I think we just need to be careful. We are talking about our food supply. I think that, as Canadians, we need to feed Canada first. If we want to feed our own population properly, we have to be able to process products locally. Because there are not enough Quebec and Canadian workers in our ridings, we still need temporary foreign workers. The categories need to be very clearly defined.

Agriculture and Agri-FoodCommittees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

5:45 p.m.

Conservative

John Barlow Conservative Foothills, AB

Madam Speaker, it is a pleasure to rise today to speak to this concurrence debate on a Conservative supplementary report on the variance in food prices.

It is interesting to hear my Liberal, NDP and Bloc colleagues not really talking about the impact that the carbon tax and other Liberal-NDP policies are having on Canadian farm families and our supply chain, which in turn, are driving up prices for Canadians and consumers, who are witnessing this first-hand at the grocery store shelves. We have talked a lot over the last week, our first week back in the House of Commons, about the impact we are seeing on food security in Canada. These numbers are truly startling, when we are seeing the number of Canadians who are now experiencing food insecurity in our country, a G7 country, up 111%. That is almost nine million Canadians struggling to find their next meal, millions of Canadian parents unable to feed their kids and 25% of our population struggling to put food on the table. These are numbers that I certainly never thought I would see in my lifetime.

The Liberals have been saying all afternoon that Canadians have just never had it so good, and I do not know what they are talking about. The stats are startling, and they are not only the stats on Canadians experiencing food insecurity but also the government's own data on on-farm income shows that it decreased 3% in 2022.

On-farm income is down $9.1 billion, from $13 billion in 2022, which is a drop of 41.7% from 2022 to 2023. Let us put this into some more specific numbers. In British Columbia, net farm income is down 36%; in Alberta, it is down 55%; in Saskatchewan, it is down 42%; in Quebec, it is down 43%; and in New Brunswick, it is down 55%. The member for Winnipeg North is saying that Manitoba farmers have never had it so good, but in that member's own province, that income has decreased 38%.

Why is this happening? It is because the carbon tax is costing Canadian farmers almost a billion dollars a year. It is continuing to go up year after year, but that is only what we are seeing in direct costs. They are also seeing higher costs on fertilizer, fuel, feed and every other input they are putting into their farm operations. Machinery and employment, all of these things, are seeing their prices go up.

On trucking, we have just heard that the Canadian Trucking Alliance has said that the impact that the carbon tax is having on their industry alone will be $4 billion by 2030. Bison Transport is not a huge trucking company, but it is a fairly substantial trucking company in western Canada. One of its owners is a constituent. Bison Transport paid $7.8 million in carbon taxes last year. That is one trucking company. It is halfway through this year, and it has already paid $4.5 million in carbon taxes. When its year-end is done, it will have paid close to $10 million in carbon taxes. That is just one trucking company, and they are passing those costs on to the consumer.

It is very difficult to square the circle of the Liberals saying that the carbon tax has no impact on food prices. Give me a break. Of course it does. That does not even talk about rail. CPKC and CN also charge producers and their vendors a carbon tax on everything they haul. Saskatchewan farmers paid $17 million in carbon taxes to the railways last year. That is $17 million, and we are wondering why farm incomes are so low and why we are seeing such a stark reduction in farm income.

The Canadian Federation of Agriculture has talked to all of its members about its operating expenses and their farms. Operating expenses on Canadian farms are up 19%, the largest increase since 1979. What is the coincidence between 1979 and 2024? I will let members think about that for a second. They are the Liberal governments led by the current Prime Minister and his father, and they dump those costs onto Canadian farmers without any thought as to the consequences that will happen to Canadian consumers.

Dr. Sylvain Charlebois, the pre-eminent expert on food prices and the food supply chain in Canada and a professor at Dalhousie University, commonly known as the “food professor”, said that the Liberal-NDP carbon tax increases wholesale food costs by 34% in every single category.

The Liberals like to talk about the experts, the 200 economists who say the carbon tax is not increasing the cost of living. I would like to know who those experts are because the pre-eminent expert on food costs and the supply chain in Canada has clearly stated that the Liberal-NDP carbon tax increases food costs in all categories by 34%. Why is this number so different from what the Liberal government professes? Dr. Charlebois said that the CRA and Finance Canada are not properly quantifying the costs of the carbon tax for food supply or food production. I am very surprised that the Liberals would be selective on which numbers they use.

The Liberal member across the way has talked all day about using facts and figures. The Manitoba pork industry has never been stronger. I just told members about how Manitoba's agriculture farm income is down 38%. That is a fact. That is his own government's data. By this data, in Canada's pork industry, the number of hogs in Canada is down 265,000 head. I wonder why his numbers are so different from his government's numbers. That number is actually expected to go down another 2% in 2024. It is horrible when Liberals have to listen to the facts and the data that their own government has compiled.

As the opposition, we brought forward four recommendations that would address the volatile price of food and food for Canadians.

The first is to axe the tax. Eliminate the carbon tax, which is driving up the cost of everything consumers buy, including food.

The second is to do an in-depth study of the impact of both carbon taxes. I have to admit, whether it meant to or not, the government has now done that work. Carbon tax 1 punches a $25 billion hole in Canada's economy. We now know, as a result of an Order Paper question by my office, that carbon tax 2, the so-called clean fuel standard, adds another $9-billion sledgehammer hit to our economy. Therefore, both carbon taxes make up a $35 billion hit to Canadians. That is money coming out of their pocket. It is damaging their paycheques and certainly hurting Canada's economy.

The third recommendation is to eliminate the front-of-pack labelling policy path that the Liberal government is going down. It is a completely activist, ideological policy; certainly, no one has asked for it. It will cost the industry $8 billion. Does the government think the industry is going to just absorb those costs? That is like our NDP colleague saying that it is going to be a tax on profit. I am sure Galen Weston is going to happily take that tax out of his pocket and his profits and just not worry about it. Of course, those costs are going to—

Agriculture and Agri-FoodCommittees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

5:50 p.m.

An hon. member

He can afford it.

Agriculture and Agri-FoodCommittees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

5:50 p.m.

Conservative

John Barlow Conservative Foothills, AB

It does not matter if he can afford it; he is going to pass it on to consumers. Madam Speaker, that is a ridiculous argument. What businesses out there, when the government increases taxes on them, say that they are sorry, that they are making too much profit?

Agriculture and Agri-FoodCommittees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

5:55 p.m.

Liberal

The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès) Liberal Alexandra Mendes

I would ask hon. members to respect when a member is speaking.

The hon. member for Foothills.

Agriculture and Agri-FoodCommittees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

5:55 p.m.

Conservative

John Barlow Conservative Foothills, AB

Madam Speaker, I appreciate your putting the NDP in its place here.

The last policy is the plastics ban the Liberals are putting forward, which we know will drive up the cost of food, especially fresh produce, by 56%.

All of these policies are driving up costs for Canadian consumers. Our argument to the Liberal-NDP government is this. It should stop talking about the things it is going to do and actually do them, because the answer is right in front of it. The answer is to axe the tax, the plastics ban, the front-of-pack labelling and the clean fuel standard. We will then see grocery prices come down for Canadians. If the government will not do it, a Conservative government will do it, and it should call a carbon tax election so Canadians can decide.

Agriculture and Agri-FoodCommittees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

5:55 p.m.

Winnipeg North Manitoba

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons

Madam Speaker, at the very least, to say there is a 34% increase in grocery prices because of the carbon tax is absolutely ridiculous. I would love to see a substantiation of that. The Parliamentary Budget Officer and the Governor of the Bank of Canada are saying something dramatically different than what the member just finished saying.

Having said that, can the member explain to those following the debate why Erin O'Toole and his Conservative candidates, including the member opposite, had an election platform that said they supported the price on pollution, the carbon tax that they are now opposing? Why was the Conservative Party so poorly misled? Who misled them? What caused the Conservatives to change their minds? Was it the extreme right?

Agriculture and Agri-FoodCommittees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

5:55 p.m.

Conservative

John Barlow Conservative Foothills, AB

Madam Speaker, I do not know who the member is speaking about, but I certainly campaigned in my riding in the last election on getting rid of the carbon tax, and I know my colleagues did as well.

The Liberal member does not like the facts. He is questioning the study by Dalhousie University on the impact the carbon tax is having on food prices. He talked about how amazing the pork industry is in Manitoba. I cited his government's own data, noting that the number of head of hogs is down by 265,000 and net farm income in Manitoba is down by more than 30%. Those are stats.

Agriculture and Agri-FoodCommittees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

5:55 p.m.

An hon. member

That is not true.

Agriculture and Agri-FoodCommittees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

5:55 p.m.

Conservative

John Barlow Conservative Foothills, AB

Madam Speaker, the member is saying that is not true. Those are stats from Stats Canada, his own government's data.

Agriculture and Agri-FoodCommittees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

5:55 p.m.

NDP

Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC

Madam Speaker, it is most interesting that it was Conservatives in Canada who brought in the first carbon tax. It was Conservatives in Alberta and then Conservatives in British Columbia who introduced the price on carbon in this country. The Conservatives here campaigned on it federally in 2019, but they have amnesia.

My question is about the cost of not dealing with the climate crisis. It is true that the carbon tax is a pricing mechanism that is supposed to lead to people reducing their carbon. If we did not have that, we would have more carbon emissions. Here is the cost. The Canadian Climate Institute's report says that by 2030, Canada could face annual losses to real GDP of $35 billion, and that depending on whether or not we get our emissions act together, we could be looking at $78 billion to $101 billion annually by 2050 and $391 billion to $865 billion by 2100.

What is the cost to the Canadian economy of failing to get our carbon emissions down? Tell me what that is.

Agriculture and Agri-FoodCommittees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

6 p.m.

Conservative

John Barlow Conservative Foothills, AB

Madam Speaker, I am really having a difficult time. I do not know if my NDP colleague has spoken to his leader, but to save their hide in a Manitoba by-election, they announced that they no longer supported a consumer carbon tax. The member has some indignation over the cost of doing nothing, but his party and his leader have just announced that they are going to do nothing because they understand the political price they are paying by supporting the Liberals' carbon tax. They are trying to save face and fool Canadians, but Canadians are not buying that trick.

Agriculture and Agri-FoodCommittees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

6 p.m.

Liberal

The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès) Liberal Alexandra Mendes

Before I give the floor for another question, I will remind members that we are here to talk about the administration of government, not political parties.

The hon. member for Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan.

Agriculture and Agri-FoodCommittees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

6 p.m.

Conservative

Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB

Madam Speaker, earlier in the debate, NDP members were talking on and on about grocery lobbyists. I am thinking that Gurratan Singh is somewhere thinking, “I'm right here, bro.”

The NDP members talk about grocery lobbyists, but they never talk about their own connections to grocery lobbyists. I wonder if the member has any thoughts on why that is.

Agriculture and Agri-FoodCommittees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

6 p.m.

Conservative

John Barlow Conservative Foothills, AB

Madam Speaker, I find it a little hypocritical that the New Democrats and the Liberals have been challenging us on our support for or alleged talks with grocery lobbyists. The Liberals gave $14 million to Loblaw and Galen Weston for freezers because they were having a tough time with their record profits. The NDP leader's brother is a lobbyist for Metro.

They all have their fingers in the pie, but we are the ones listening to Canadians to ensure that we are bringing the best messages forward to them. Seventy per cent of Canadians do not support a carbon tax. We are the only party in Canada that is speaking up for Canadians and we will axe the tax.

Agriculture and Agri-FoodCommittees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

6 p.m.

Conservative

Kevin Waugh Conservative Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK

Madam Speaker, I will share my time tonight with the member for Battlefords—Lloydminster.

I am pleased to rise on behalf of the people of Saskatoon—Grasswood here tonight to speak about this concurrence in committee report. Canadians have sent a clear message to the government: They are struggling to keep up with the cost of living and are not getting the support they need. In the middle of this historic cost of living crisis, the Prime Minister decided to hike the carbon tax by 23%. This is just one step in his plan to quadruple the carbon tax over the next six years, a tax that will continue to increase the cost of food for all Canadians.

The panicking Liberals are back to resorting to every trick in the book, trying desperately to prevent farmers from getting a carbon tax carve-out for grain drying, barn heating and other farm operations. The amendment would be another blow to the wallets of Canadians. It would reduce fresh produce availability by some fifty per cent, while costing the industry a remarkable $5.6 billion. I want to talk tonight about how the government and the industry can fight back against rising food price volatility.

I come from the province of Saskatchewan, where people are proud to say that we feed the world. However, times are now changing desperately for producers in the province, as costs have soared under the Liberal-NDP government.

As chair of the Saskatchewan caucus, I can say that we have had extensive talks with SARM, which is the Saskatchewan Association of Rural Municipalities. During our talks with president Ray Orb and the entire board at SARM, they brought up the inflationary pressures from the government that are simply killing rural Saskatchewan. The carbon tax, which had increased by 23% as of April 1, led to SARM members' writing letters to every member on the agriculture committee.

The premier of Saskatchewan, Scott Moe, led six other provincial premiers who were opposed to the government's carbon tax increase. Even in the legislature of Saskatchewan, the opposition NDP agreed with the Sask Party on the carbon tax. Saskatchewan has been joined by Alberta, Ontario, Nova Scotia and New Brunswick in asking for a carbon tax carve-out for the farmers and to pass Bill C-234 in its original form.

We should talk about Bill C-234 because it would provide relief to Saskatchewan farmers, but let us recall it was the Liberal-controlled Senate that gutted the bill in that place. The Senate amendments would cost Saskatchewan farmers $9 million this year, and by 2030, an added cost of $96 million. That is from one bill, Bill C-234.

Provinces like B.C., where MLAs once actually supported a carbon tax, have turned right around. They have turned their backs on the federal government, although we all know it is flip-flop for Premier Eby, as he knows he will probably be going down in the next 28 days.

The Canadian Federation of Agriculture surveyed the impact of the carbon tax on crop production, livestock and greenhouse farms across this country. It found that the carbon tax accounted for up to 40% of their energy bills. In my province alone, farm efforts to sequester carbon have gone basically unrecognized by the NDP-Liberal government.

The policies by the NDP-Liberals are simply punishing farmers. The government's ideological pursuit to penalize greenhouse gas emitters through the carbon tax, to me, is very short-sighted and inequitable. Farmers have, for years, maybe even decades, demonstrated an ability to deliver meaningful reductions in emissions through the adoption of new technologies, through education and through innovative practices, not through taxes.

In Saskatoon, we hold the crop production show every January at Prairieland Park, which, by the way, is in my riding. Thousands of producers come from all over western Canada and the United States to talk about farming innovation. Then, in July, just a couple of months ago, we had Ag in Motion just outside of Saskatoon, in Langham, bringing tens of thousands of producers together from all over the world to find best practices. One could not get a hotel room within a 100-kilometre radius of Saskatoon; everything was full for that four-day show. I cannot forget about the Canadian Western Agribition show in Regina each November, as it services farmers and ranchers from all over the world, and we are innovative in our thoughts going forward.

Farming groups are on the leading edge of innovation. We have led for years, for decades, trying to find innovative ways to produce food for the entire world. I compliment the innovative companies that have set up in my province, like Bourgault; Agtron; Brandt Industries; Schulte Industries; Bin-Sense, a new company that just started in Saskatchewan; Redekop Industries; and Wilger Industries, which, by the way, sell their product to John Deere and Case worldwide. Many other companies have surfaced in Saskatchewan. All one has to do is go to the small communities in my province. Every little town has set up something on agriculture, and that is what is keeping them alive. Saskatchewan has led the world for decades on zero tillage. It has led on direct seeding, crop rotation and rotational grazing.

With the Bank of Canada confirming that the carbon tax was responsible for at least 16% of inflation last October, it is no wonder that the food professor that we have talked about from Dalhousie University, Dr. Charlebois, recommended a pause on the carbon tax for the entire food industry. We in the Conservative Party also want to axe the tax. We know that it is hurting every citizen in this country. Why? Two million people are visiting food banks today in this country, with 25,000 in my city of Saskatoon, a city of just under 300,000 people. We have 25,000 people per month visiting the Saskatoon Food Bank, in a province that produces food for the entire world.

Yesterday, I had the chance to pop into a grocery store in downtown Ottawa. I was shocked. Three tomatoes cost $5.50, three apples cost $5.00, raspberries were $6.00 and the list goes on and on.

We had a chance to visit Yorkton Grain Millers about a year, a year and a half ago. It supplies oats. It has one production facility in Canada and several others in the United States. The day that we arrived at the mill was fantastic. There were trucks lined up 24-7. These trucks transport oats from as far as 200 kilometres away.

The carbon tax we have talked about is affecting the trucking industry deeply. It is hard to compete against other jurisdictions that do not have a carbon tax. We saw it first-hand in Yorkton and how the producers around the Yorkton, Manitoba and Saskatchewan area are feeding off grain millers.

My dad was the head miller at Robin Hood in Ontario, Moose Jaw and Saskatoon. If he were alive today, he would be shocked, because it is the cost of production that is going through the roof that has hurt every Canadian coast to coast to coast.

Agriculture and Agri-FoodCommittees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

6:10 p.m.

Winnipeg North Manitoba

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons

Madam Speaker, I am really intrigued by the Conservative math, and I am looking for confirmation. The previous speaker said that if we got rid of the price on pollution, the cost of food would go down by 34%.

Does the member opposite believe what his Conservative colleague put on the record? He said that 34% is the increase in the cost of food as a result of the price on pollution.

Agriculture and Agri-FoodCommittees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

6:10 p.m.

Conservative

Kevin Waugh Conservative Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK

Madam Speaker, the professor from Dalhousie University said that food is up 34%. He is the professor saying to get rid of the carbon tax.

We have been saying for years to get rid of the carbon tax. Saskatchewan has led all the other provinces in trying to get rid of the carbon tax. It has a direct effect on every farmer, every producer and every person in my city. Every person in my province of 1.2 million is affected by this carbon tax. It is not good news. If members do not believe that, they should know that the Moose Jaw food bank ran out of food and could not provide services to those who needed to go there.

Agriculture and Agri-FoodCommittees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

6:10 p.m.

NDP

Heather McPherson NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB

Madam Speaker, my colleague is a strong representative for his constituency. However, we are talking about the cost of living and grocery prices. One of the things I think about when I think about the cost of living is the horrendous history we have in this country from when Stephen Harper was Prime Minister and the cuts he made to all of those services Canadians depend upon.

The Conservatives like to talk about tax cuts, but we know that tax cuts actually do not help the very poorest and most vulnerable within our community. These are things such as support for health care to help those people and a dental care program, for example. Harper and the Conservatives cut $43 billion from health care when they were in power. They cut EI. They cut the social programs that Canadians depend upon. They have no interest in protecting those who are most vulnerable.

Even today, when I asked his colleague if he had another suggestion besides this obsession with the carbon tax, if he had any other solution on reducing grocery prices, he said that he was not going to answer that question. That is because he does not have an answer. Does this member have an answer for that?

Agriculture and Agri-FoodCommittees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

6:15 p.m.

Conservative

Kevin Waugh Conservative Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK

Madam Speaker, I used to be a school trustee, and now the Liberals and the NDP are trying to bring out a food program. What do members think the problem has been in the last nine or ten years? It is the carbon tax that has increased the price of food. I know that for a fact. I have kids in the school system. I have kids in York, in Saskatoon. I have another who teaches in Lethbridge. It is the same. The carbon tax has affected each and every household in this country.

When we look at the price of food, it has gone up. That is because of 10 years of the NDP-Liberal government and its insistence on a carbon tax. It has hurt the lower echelon of our economy more than any other. In here, the 338 members can afford the increase. However, in my province of Saskatchewan, over half cannot. They have to supplement their groceries by visiting a food bank. This is not only in Saskatoon but also in Regina, Moose Jaw and every other community in my province.

Agriculture and Agri-FoodCommittees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

6:15 p.m.

Bloc

Andréanne Larouche Bloc Shefford, QC

Madam Speaker, I will end with a simple question to calm things down a bit.

I have had the opportunity to meet regularly with Canadian processors located in the riding of Shefford, more precisely in Granby. I have met them alongside my colleague, the member for Berthier—Maskinongé, on more than one occasion.

I would like to invite my colleague to speak to recommendation 7, the one about the code of conduct. This is a crucial and important subject for Canadian processors.

What does he have to say about this recommendation?

Agriculture and Agri-FoodCommittees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

6:15 p.m.

Conservative

Kevin Waugh Conservative Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK

Madam Speaker, there are lots of recommendations we can talk about in the House here tonight, but the number one recommendation is to cut the carbon tax. We have seen from coast to coast to coast that the carbon tax has really hurt families in this country. I can go through the list of small communities that have no more food in their food banks because they have seen an increase in use, and I am sure in Quebec it is the same thing. People are in need. The family of—