House of Commons Hansard #54 of the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was billion.

Topics

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Food and Drugs Act Second reading of Bill C-224. The bill aims to restore the traditional definition of natural health products, reversing Bill C-47 changes that regulated them like therapeutic drugs. Conservatives argue this increased costs, as Health Canada already had sufficient powers for safety. Liberals express concern C-224 would make it harder to trust NHP safety, advocating more oversight. The Bloc highlights Health Canada's failure to enforce existing regulations before C-47's changes. 8200 words, 1 hour.

Budget Documents Distributed to Members Members debate a question of privilege regarding alleged incomplete budget documents distributed during the lock-up and in the House, with the Liberal MP stating the official tabled budget was complete and lock-up documents are a courtesy. 600 words.

Financial Statement of Minister of Finance Members debate the government's Budget 2025, with Liberals framing it as a "generational budget" investing in housing, infrastructure, and public safety. Conservatives criticize the "staggering $78-billion deficit" and rising national debt, arguing it fails to address affordability and relies on "creative accounting." The Bloc Québécois expresses disappointment over health care transfers and support for industries. Concerns are raised about the budget's impact on future generations and economic growth. 39100 words, 4 hours in 2 segments: 1 2.

Statements by Members

Question Period

The Conservatives criticize the Liberal government's reckless spending and ballooning deficit, citing warnings from the PBO and Fitch Ratings. They highlight the soaring cost of living, especially grocery prices and baby formula, attributing it to Liberal taxes like the carbon tax. They also condemn the government's failure to address the extortion crisis in Canada.
The Liberals defend Budget 2025 as a plan for generational investments to grow the economy. They highlight dropping inflation and rising wages, claiming Canada has the best fiscal position in the G7. They emphasize investments in infrastructure, affordable housing, national defence (including soldier pay raises), childcare, and a national school food program. They also address public safety and climate commitments.
The Bloc criticizes the government's failed trade strategy with the US and rising tariffs. They demand action for seniors and health transfers, and accuse Liberals of hiding the real deficit numbers and attempting to replace the Parliamentary Budget Officer.
The Greens question the budget's omission of Paris commitments and seek assurances on climate adaptation, nature strategy, and Indigenous reconciliation.
The NDP highlights the housing crisis affecting Quebec, demanding substantial investments in co-operative, social, and community housing.

Criminal Code First reading of Bill C-257. The bill amends the Criminal Code to create a new offence for the wilful promotion of terrorism or terrorist groups, aiming to close a legal gap while protecting Charter rights with specific defences. 200 words.

Parliamentary Budget Officer Conservative MP Kelly McCauley raises a question of privilege, stating the Parliamentary Budget Officer (PBO) has been denied access to information on budget measures, including the "comprehensive expenditure review." He argues this obstructs Parliament's ability to hold the government accountable and constitutes contempt, asking the Speaker to find a prima facie case. 2900 words, 20 minutes.

Adjournment Debates

Auto sector job losses Andrew Lawton criticizes the government's budget and its failure to protect auto sector jobs in his riding, blaming the government's economic mismanagement. Karim Bardeesy defends the budget's investments, highlighting a new gigafactory in St. Thomas, and accuses the opposition of lacking climate change action plans.
Tariffs on Canadian crops Jeremy Patzer raises concerns about China and India's tariffs on Canadian canola and pulse crops, calculating significant losses for farmers. Sean Casey cites government support through AgriStability and marketing programs. Patzer questions provincial agreement on AgriStability and demands tariff repeal. Casey emphasizes commitment to farmers and ongoing negotiations with China.
Government spending and deficits Mike Lake warns that persistent deficits under the Liberal government risk cuts to social programs. Ryan Turnbull defends the government's investment strategy, arguing it will grow the economy and provide revenue to reduce the deficit. Lake insists that this "investment" is just spending, setting Canada on a dangerous path.
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Financial Statement of Minister of FinanceThe BudgetGovernment Orders

3:45 p.m.

Bloc

Jean-Denis Garon Bloc Mirabel, QC

Madam Speaker, the Prime Minister's latest mantra is that he wants to eliminate the operating deficit, in other words, the normal net deficit from his bad investments.

However, by his own definition of operating deficit, the Trudeau government achieved a balance or generated a surplus during its first four years. We will overlook the pandemic years. The Trudeau government did not run an operating deficit in 2022-23. In its last year, the so-called operating deficit was $31 billion. In this budget, the operating deficit is $32.5 billion.

First, does this not demonstrate that by increasing program spending, which the Parliamentary Budget Officer says is not capital spending, they are hiding the truth from Quebeckers and Canadians? Second, by spending heavily on programs, is the Prime Minister creating a problem that he is promising to fix later? Is the new creative accounting in this budget not ultimately a way of hiding the true facts?

Financial Statement of Minister of FinanceThe BudgetGovernment Orders

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Matt Strauss Conservative Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON

Madam Speaker, I think we have decades-old standards for how budgets are disclosed to the Canadian public. To suddenly change those standards is shifty or sneaky. Then, it causes me a crisis of faith to find out that, even based on the Liberals' own terms, they are not increasing investment by as much as they are increasing spending.

I was looking at Brookfield Asset Management's stock price increase. Shortly after the Prime Minister became the chairman there, he did some reorganization, moving the money around into different pots, and its stock price shot up compared to the S&P 500. Two years later, it is coming back down, because playing these sorts of shell games between operating expenses and capital may look very good and may attract some investor dollars, but in the end, those investors are going for a wash.

Financial Statement of Minister of FinanceThe BudgetGovernment Orders

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Ben Lobb Conservative Huron—Bruce, ON

Madam Speaker, the Liberal member for Winnipeg North was going on about Japan. I just wonder whether the member could talk about Japan and the folly of comparing Canada to Japan when it comes to debt and the debt-to-GDP ratio. How did Japan get there? Japan's debt-to-GDP ratio is 250%. How it happened is persistent, long-term deficits, and then all of a sudden, one day, it is in a big mess.

Could the member talk about how we should not be like Japan and about how we should get the budget balanced and provide fiscal certainty to the rest of the world?

Financial Statement of Minister of FinanceThe BudgetGovernment Orders

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Matt Strauss Conservative Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON

Madam Speaker, Japan has a lot of problems. It had a lost decade. Now we have had a lost decade because the Liberals have copied its playbook.

Financial Statement of Minister of FinanceThe BudgetGovernment Orders

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

Guillaume Deschênes-Thériault Liberal Madawaska—Restigouche, NB

Madam Speaker, I wish to inform you that I will be sharing my time with the member for Trois-Rivières.

The ambitious budget that we presented to the House on November 4 contains a lot of good news for my riding of Madawaska—Restigouche. With the build communities strong fund, we are going to make significant investments in infrastructure. More specifically, the community stream, the former gas tax program, will give municipalities more predictability in planning their infrastructure investments.

As a former municipal councillor in the rural community of Kedgwick, I am well aware of the importance of this program, which allows for direct transfers to municipalities. It means money for paving the streets of Bois‑Joli or Vallée‑des‑Rivières. It means funding for the water and sewer system in Upper Madawaska or Heron Bay. It means money for community infrastructure in Saint‑Quentin or Grand Falls.

In addition, a provincial and territorial cost-sharing stream will contribute more than $17 billion in new funding for infrastructure that will facilitate housing construction. Sometimes, for example, building an apartment building requires upgrading the capacity of a water system or building an extra stretch of roadway. The federal government will be there to support that type of project.

We are also establishing a new health infrastructure fund. This is important. It means money for our hospitals, emergency rooms and other health facilities that are important to our communities. In addition, there is $6 billion for regionally significant infrastructure.

In addition to our historic investments in infrastructure, we are also making unprecedented investments in housing through Build Canada Homes. The $13 billion we will invest through Build Canada Homes over the next five years will help accelerate housing construction across the country. That includes affordable housing.

Already in my riding, when we walk through the streets of Campbellton or Edmundston, we see apartment buildings being constructed with federal funding. This is transforming the face of our cities for the better. Having discussed this with several mayors in my riding, I know that some excellent local housing projects will be proposed.

Our investments in infrastructure and housing will strengthen local communities and fuel our economy. It is important to understand that in infrastructure and construction projects, quite often, local businesses are involved in the contract. That creates good jobs in my riding of Madawaska—Restigouche. On this side of the House, we understand that we need strong communities for a strong Canada.

I would like to give a concrete example of the impact the investments we are making in infrastructure can have on our communities. Last week, I had the honour of making an announcement on rural public transit on behalf of the Minister of Housing and Infrastructure. I got to announce $700,000 in funding to expand public transit in towns and municipalities in Grand Falls, Vallée‑des‑Rivières, Saint‑Quentin and Kedgwick. The service will be offered by FlexGo under New Brunswick's Northwest Regional Services Commission.

This follows an initial tranche of federal funding that supported the launch of this service in Edmundston and Upper Madawaska at the beginning of this year. It has been a great success, because FlexGo provides reliable, quality, flexible service that is truly tailored to the needs of rural communities. This means that residents of Kedgwick and Saint‑Quentin who do not have personal vehicles can now travel very affordably between the two communities to visit family. People who live in Edmundston and work in Saint‑Léonard, Clair or Saint‑François‑de‑Madawaska in Upper Madawaska can commute from their home to their workplace. Residents of Drummond and Saint‑André who have an appointment at the hospital in Grand Falls will have a dependable means of transportation to get there.

This kind of investment truly improves the lives of our families, seniors, people with reduced mobility, workers and post-secondary students. As a member of Parliament, I am so happy to announce this type of investment, because I know it will make a real difference in the quality of life of the people I represent here in Ottawa. I would like to take this opportunity to commend the FlexGo team for their exemplary work on this file.

Forestry is a very important sector for the Canadian economy, and it is central to the economy in my riding. Everyone knows that the tariff war with the United States has had a significant impact on the softwood lumber industry. This issue is a priority for me. As the member for Madawaska—Restigouche, I am actively involved in discussions on this issue with my colleagues here in Ottawa. I am pleased to report that this sector has not been overlooked in the 2025 budget.

We have announced a $700‑million loan guarantee program, which will give affected businesses quick access to the liquidity they need. This comes on top of an additional half-billion-dollar investment in various forestry programs to help the sector diversify and develop new markets.

As well, various other programs and measures were announced in the budget to help both businesses and workers in sectors affected by the tariff war. Our government is determined to defend the interests of the softwood lumber sector during this period of economic turmoil. As the member for Madawaska—Restigouche, so am I.

The Canada summer jobs program is very important to our young people and our communities. I am pleased to see that budget 2025 not only maintained but also enhanced funding for this program. Last summer, I visited over 200 workplaces where young people had benefited from Canada summer jobs funding. I got to see the real-life impact that this program was having in Madawaska—Restigouche. I spoke with young people who were getting their first work experience or their first opportunity to gain experience in their field of study through this program. The program also plays an important role in covering summer labour costs for our small businesses, festivals, municipalities, summer camps and community organizations, to name just a few examples.

I would like to remind everyone that the deadline for submitting applications for the summer of 2026 is December 11, and I am already looking forward to being home next summer to visit even more young people in the workplace.

Budget 2025 contains some excellent news: Not only has the government doubled the funding for National Acadian Day celebrations, but it has also made that funding permanent. This was a long-standing request from Acadian civil society, and the response came directly from our Prime Minister. We Acadians have been present in North America for over 400 years. We have had our share of challenges throughout history, but we are a strong, resilient, proud and forward-looking people. We have a strong attachment to our symbols, whether it be our national anthem, our flag or our national day on August 15. The announcement that funding for this celebration will be permanent not only corrects an injustice that has persisted for far too long, but it is also a wonderful way for our Prime Minister to recognize the Acadian people.

The people of Madawaska—Restigouche celebrate their Acadian roots with pride and in grand style. Just think of the huge show that took place last summer on Charlo Beach, the tintamarre in Campbellton or Grand Falls, the celebrations of our Acadian stars in Upper Madawaska, or the festivals organized in Edmundston, Saint‑Quentin and Kedgwick. There is also the traditional August 15 dinner in Saint‑Anne‑de‑Madawaska, where diners can enjoy a delicious stew known as fricot or a flatbread we call ployes brayonnes. Next summer, Madawaska—Restigouche will once again celebrate Acadia in style.

For more than 50 years, the demographic weight of francophones outside Quebec has been declining. It fell from 6.1% in 1971 to 3.5% in 2021. During this time, francophone immigration levels outside Quebec were very low. In fact, the first time Canada exceeded the 2% threshold for francophone immigration was in 2019. However, immigration is the main driver of population growth in Canada. The very low level of francophone immigration outside Quebec is a factor that has contributed to accelerating the decline in the demographic weight of francophones.

In 2022, the 4.4% target for francophone immigration was met for the first time. We exceeded 7% in 2024, and this year, we are on track to meet a target of 8.5%. In the budget, we presented the new immigration levels plan, which includes very ambitious targets for francophone immigration. The target is 9% starting next year and increases gradually to reach 12% by 2029. That is huge. For the first time in our country's history, the government has set targets to not only halt the demographic decline of francophones outside Quebec, but to reverse the trend and to put the demographic weight of francophones on track for growth. That is huge. It will have a real impact on all francophone communities across the country, including on communities in Madawaska—Restigouche.

In closing, budget 2025 is full of great news for my riding. I could easily give many other examples if I had an extra 10 minutes, but I see that my time is almost up. I look forward to taking questions from my colleagues.

Financial Statement of Minister of FinanceThe BudgetGovernment Orders

4 p.m.

Conservative

Vincent Ho Conservative Richmond Hill South, ON

Madam Speaker, when the Liberal Prime Minister split the costly Liberal deficits into so-called operating and capital spending, experts warned that he would use this to cook the books, and last week, the Parliamentary Budget Officer confirmed exactly that. The PBO says that the Prime Minister's new so-called capital definition is overly expansive, violating international standards, and that it hides $94 billion in spending that would never be counted as investment in other jurisdictions.

In the private sector, when finance and accounting definitions are changed by management, it is a red flag. Even after the goalposts were moved, the PBO found that there is only a 7.5% chance that the Prime Minister would meet his own fiscal anchor. In other words, after all the spin, there is a 92.5% chance that the deficit-to-GDP ratio is going to worsen.

After breaking every promise he made to Canadians, how can the costly Liberal Prime Minister look families in the eye and pretend that he is spending less, when the PBO just exposed the truth, which is that he is manipulating Canadians and that Canadians are left to pay the price?

Financial Statement of Minister of FinanceThe BudgetGovernment Orders

4 p.m.

Liberal

Guillaume Deschênes-Thériault Liberal Madawaska—Restigouche, NB

Madam Speaker, at a time of economic turmoil due to the tariff war with the United States, the responsible thing to do is to be there for Canadians, to invest in our infrastructure and housing so we can boost and strengthen the Canadian economy, to be there for businesses and workers in the sectors that have been hit the hardest by the tariff war, to be there to build our economy's resilience and protect all the social programs that Canadians depend on. That is the responsible thing to do, and that is what we are doing with budget 2025.

Voting against this budget would be irresponsible.

Financial Statement of Minister of FinanceThe BudgetGovernment Orders

4 p.m.

Bloc

Luc Thériault Bloc Montcalm, QC

Madam Speaker, my colleague mentioned the $5-billion investment in health infrastructure from coast to coast to coast over the next three years. That represents approximately $300 million per year for Quebec. At the same time, Quebec is being asked to invest the same amount. Also, in the same budget, we learned that funding for health care costs, which was supposed to be indexed at 6%, will be indexed at 3% for the next few years. The federal government is making Quebec poorer when it comes to health care costs.

The government is offering $300 million, when expanding the Maisonneuve-Rosemont hospital alone could cost between $4 billion and $6 billion. They would have us believe that what is being offered to the provinces is huge, that it is fantastic, when we have just come out of a pandemic.

If health care had been given the slightest priority, perhaps we could have supported this budget, despite the $78-billion deficit.

Financial Statement of Minister of FinanceThe BudgetGovernment Orders

4:05 p.m.

Liberal

Guillaume Deschênes-Thériault Liberal Madawaska—Restigouche, NB

Madam Speaker, I am pleased that my colleague mentioned the $5 billion in federal investments in health care infrastructure. It is important to understand that this is complementary to all our other health care investments.

The budget allocates $54.7 billion to the Canada health transfer for 2025-26 alone. This amount will increase to $65 billion in 2029-30. This represents a $300-billion investment through the Canada health transfer, in addition to the $4.3 billion planned for 2025-26 for transfers under the health care agreements with the various provinces and territories.

We are also going to invest in workers. I am thinking in particular of the tax credits for personal support workers and the investments we will be making to improve foreign credential recognition, which will include health care professionals.

The youth employment and skills strategy includes funding for mental health counselling. There is also a whole section on improving access to health care in the north and in the Arctic. These are just a few examples of what our government is doing to support health care.

Financial Statement of Minister of FinanceThe BudgetGovernment Orders

4:05 p.m.

Liberal

Louis Villeneuve Liberal Brome—Missisquoi, QC

Madam Speaker, we know that our government has invested $150 million in CBC/Radio-Canada. We know how important culture and information are to Canada.

I would like my colleague to share his thoughts on the importance of this investment and its impact on our communities.

Financial Statement of Minister of FinanceThe BudgetGovernment Orders

4:05 p.m.

Liberal

Guillaume Deschênes-Thériault Liberal Madawaska—Restigouche, NB

Madam Speaker, a healthy democracy requires a strong and independent press, especially in this era of disinformation, which spreads online. This additional $150-million investment in our public broadcaster is an investment in a credible, high-quality source of information for local, regional and national news.

Back home in Madawaska—Restigouche, I listen to La matinale, or Information Morning on CBC in the morning. In the evening, I watch Téléjournal Acadie. I read the news on the CBC mobile app, thanks to the support we give our public broadcaster. It is essential for a healthy democracy and informed citizens.

Financial Statement of Minister of FinanceThe BudgetGovernment Orders

4:05 p.m.

Trois-Rivières Québec

Liberal

Caroline Desrochers LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Housing and Infrastructure

Madam Speaker, I rise today in the House to talk about the impact budget 2025 will have on the people and businesses in my riding of Trois‑Rivières. This budget will strengthen what we already have, build for the future and protect our territory.

First of all, this budget tackles the cost of living by implementing measures to leave more money in the pockets of Canadians and strengthen their purchasing power. These include measures such as the 1% tax cut for 22 million Canadians, including families in Trois‑Rivières, and the Canadian dental care plan, which is helping families and seniors save hundreds of dollars. The budget is also making the national school food program permanent.

Later this week, we will mark National Child Day, which celebrates children's rights. Education is a right, but it is difficult to learn on an empty stomach, and too many children find themselves in this situation. Back home in Trois‑Rivières, Canada's national school food program is being rolled out in more than 20 schools in disadvantaged areas, in collaboration with partners such as Breakfast Club of Canada and La Tablée des Chefs. In our community alone, this program helps hundreds of children succeed in school and helps families make ends meet when they need it most. In Canada, 400,000 children benefit from this program.

No one wants charity. The people of Trois‑Rivières, like all Canadians, are proud people, but no one knows when hard times will come knocking. When they do, people know which party is there for them. This budget reinforces our commitment to give them a helping hand. That is what a united people is all about. With these measures, the government is ensuring that Canadians can keep more money in their pockets, but that is not all.

We know that rent is the biggest expense for families. The national housing strategy has resulted in hundreds of homes being built in Trois‑Rivières and across Canada, and that includes market housing, affordable housing and social housing. However, we need to do more. That is why budget 2025 is setting up the Build Canada Homes program with $13 billion in capitalization to build more housing faster while focusing on affordable housing. We are committed to doubling the rate of housing construction to increase housing supply and bring prices down.

We are also supporting first-time homebuyers through a number of programs, such as the GST tax break on new homes. However, we need to change our methods if we are to build faster. That is why Build Canada Homes will help modernize the construction industry to incentivize factory-built construction, including prefabricated and modular construction, and accelerate the pace of homebuilding. That is how we get to work. Catalyzing the construction industry will also create more jobs and encourage young people to go into the construction trades or other skilled trades.

Budget 2025 also has initiatives to support the training of the workers we will need in the coming years. We will support our critical sectors, such as the steel and lumber sector, with predictable orders. However, we are not only going to build housing. We are also going to build strong communities with the community infrastructure and public transit they will need to reach their full potential. We will work hand in hand with all levels of government to ensure our communities are resilient in dealing with climate change. We will make sure they have the water infrastructure to support the densification of urban areas, which we need. In short, we are going to build strong communities.

This budget has a very clear common theme: building the future. To build the future, we need vision and confidence. On this side of the House, we have confidence in the future. We know that it will not be easy, but with budget 2025, we are investing in what we can control.

I would like to draw a parallel here with my riding, Trois‑Rivières. For a long time, Trois‑Rivières' economy revolved around a single industry, paper, with Canadian International Paper, among others, as a major employer. When the industry took a hit in the late 1990s and early 2000s and the paper mills closed, the city went through some tough times, but it managed to bounce back and emerge from this situation even stronger and more resilient. The city had to be ambitious and bold. Trois‑Rivières envisioned a different future and rolled up its sleeves to make it a reality.

Today, Canada finds itself with a dance partner that is looking to unilaterally change the rules. Faced with this, we have two choices. We can resign ourselves to it, or we can choose to take control of our destiny and focus on what we can control. On this side of the House, we choose Canada because we know that Canada is the envy of the world. We have everything we need to succeed here at home: talent, ingenuity, the industries we need, plenty of land, the energy resources the world needs and the critical minerals that will power the technologies of the future.

In the face of uncertainty, there is only one thing to do: take action and forge ahead with a thoughtful and bold plan that focuses on our country. That is what budget 2025 does. First and foremost, the priority is to protect jobs and support the strategic automotive, steel, aluminum, and lumber industries. We are doing this through the $5-billion strategic response fund, the regional tariff response initiative, and two programs worth up to $1.2 billion to support the forestry industry.

Next, we are investing in competitiveness. With the productivity super-deduction, we are introducing tax incentives to enable businesses to write off their venture capital investments right away. For Trois‑Rivières businesses such as FAB 3R and Germain et Frère, this helps counter uncertainty and make our industries more competitive and productive, in addition to creating the best investment climate in the G7. In fact, international economists are already predicting that we will have the strongest growth in the G7 next year.

We are also stimulating our economy by building the major infrastructure projects we need to support this growth, so that our ports are ready to meet demand, so we can connect our communities to Canada's far north and so we can make travel by high-speed rail easier along the Quebec City-Toronto corridor, with a stop, of course, in Trois‑Rivières. We are also continuing to sign agreements to open up other markets and encourage the diversification of our exports around the world.

Let us talk for a few minutes about defence and protecting our sovereignty. Trois‑Rivières has a long and proud military history. In 1776, when the United States was trying to annex Quebec after American troops arrived in Montreal, the battle of Trois‑Rivières was decisive in pushing our southern neighbours back to the other side of the border once and for all. Budget 2025 makes historic investments in defence and in the Canadian military to modernize the military's working conditions and the equipment at its disposal, including record wage increases for the men and women of the Canadian Armed Forces. They are the ones who make sacrifices every day to protect us.

Defence investments will enable us to build and protect the far north, construct dual-use infrastructure that will benefit communities and invest in research and development so that our industries can continue to innovate. I will work to ensure that industries in Trois‑Rivières and Mauricie contribute to this evolving ecosystem, in order to support companies such as Marmen and Infinition, which provide good jobs in my riding. With the new buy Canadian policy, we are ensuring that these investments will benefit businesses across Canada.

In closing, we are at a crossroads. This is a moment that our children and grandchildren will remember. It is a moment that calls for greatness and courage, that calls for putting politics aside. Canadians expect us to work together to build the Canada of tomorrow, a strong Canada.

Financial Statement of Minister of FinanceThe BudgetGovernment Orders

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

Jeremy Patzer Conservative Swift Current—Grasslands—Kindersley, SK

Madam Speaker, the member talked a bit about the mill closures that happened in her community. I have been a member of Parliament for six years now, and one of the more common headlines I have seen in the news is that mill closures are happening all across Canada.

There has been no new softwood lumber deal with the United States for over 10 years. We hear a lot about housing in the House of Commons, and one thing we need for building houses is lumber. We also need steel to build it. We are hearing lots of uncertainty among some of the steel mills in Canada as well.

I am wondering how the member feels about the budget, given that there is no certainty in it for sawmills. There is no certainty in it for sawmill workers. There is no certainty in it to try to combat the tariffs and get a better deal for Canadian producers. If we do that, we will produce more and have more certainty, so we can produce the goods that Canada needs to build the things we need in Canada.

Financial Statement of Minister of FinanceThe BudgetGovernment Orders

4:15 p.m.

Liberal

Caroline Desrochers Liberal Trois-Rivières, QC

Madam Speaker, if my colleague is so concerned about the industries he is speaking about, I strongly encourage him to vote for the budget we are putting forward because, first of all, it protects jobs in strategic sectors.

Second, as I said earlier, we are committed to doubling the construction rate. This will help the forestry industry in particular. It will create more jobs. In recent months, one of the vital things we did to address the current situation was to protect jobs through forestry programs. We announced investments of up to $1.2 billion in programs to support forestry. We have been fighting a long time for softwood lumber, and I have been following the situation for a long time. We have come to expect ups and downs, and we are still there for forestry workers.

Financial Statement of Minister of FinanceThe BudgetGovernment Orders

4:15 p.m.

Bloc

Gabriel Ste-Marie Bloc Joliette—Manawan, QC

Madam Speaker, organizations that support people experiencing homelessness have expressed concerns about the funding for the community encampment response plan. What we understand from reading the budget is that the amount allocated for 2024-26 will not be renewed and that there will be no increase in funding to help organizations. However, we know that this is a serious problem.

Can the hon. parliamentary secretary confirm that Ottawa is withdrawing assistance to tackle homelessness outside of housing initiatives, for instance to address encampments?

Financial Statement of Minister of FinanceThe BudgetGovernment Orders

4:15 p.m.

Liberal

Caroline Desrochers Liberal Trois-Rivières, QC

Madam Speaker, it is a pleasure to work with my colleague on housing issues. I can assure him that the issue of homelessness continues to be a priority. The 2025 budget includes a $1‑billion investment in transitional housing to address the challenges associated with homelessness. For example, we are in discussions with the Réseau Solidarité Itinérance du Québec and the National Right to Housing Network to find solutions. We are in discussions with the Quebec government about projects in several cities throughout Quebec to address homelessness. With the cold weather coming, this is an important issue. We understand the urgent need to take action and we are working hard on it.

Financial Statement of Minister of FinanceThe BudgetGovernment Orders

4:20 p.m.

Liberal

Eric St-Pierre Liberal Honoré-Mercier, QC

Madam Speaker, could my colleague from Trois-Rivières tell us more about the Build Canada Homes program? How does the government plan to decarbonize buildings and transition them to net zero?

Financial Statement of Minister of FinanceThe BudgetGovernment Orders

4:20 p.m.

Liberal

Caroline Desrochers Liberal Trois-Rivières, QC

Madam Speaker, the Build Canada Homes investment plan will emphasize sustainable construction. We will prioritize the use of sustainable materials, such as certified Canadian recycled wood, as well as low-carbon materials in order to reduce our emissions, ensure climate resilience and support the Canadian value chain.

We will prioritize technologies that will make it possible to build buildings and housing with the highest-efficiency materials in order to achieve net zero.

Financial Statement of Minister of FinanceThe BudgetGovernment Orders

4:20 p.m.

Conservative

Ben Lobb Conservative Huron—Bruce, ON

Madam Speaker, it is an honour to rise in the House today to talk about the budget. I will be sharing my time with the member for North Island—Powell River.

This budget, in my mind, is really a confirmation of what we have seen gradually increasing over the last 10 years. The Prime Minister himself has spoken about it. He gave a pre-emptive speech a few weeks ago and talked about the sacrifices that future generations will need to make, which was basically a confirmation of what we warned about, even 10 years ago, regarding the risks of deficit-heavy spending budgets and the accumulation of debt, which is where we are today.

This budget is a confirmation that the covenant with Canadians has been broken. By that I mean that gone are the days when somebody could work hard at school, get good grades, have an opportunity to get an education they were dreaming of, whether in the trades, at community college or in university, whatever it was, and graduate with a reasonable amount of debt, or in some cases no debt. They could get out into the workforce, get a meaningful job that hopefully they were trained in or inspired to do and save a few bucks. Maybe their parents would help them; maybe that was not an option, but they were able to save a few bucks and buy their first home. It could be modest or grand, whatever they saw in their own eyes, but they would be able to have a home.

Then they could find somebody special to raise a family in that home, have a career and an affordable retirement. With enough money set aside, saved and invested, when it was time for them to retire, they would be able to retire in the comfort of their community, perhaps in an elaborate way, and have a retirement they would enjoy and find meaningful and fulfilling. In addition, along the way their kids might have the opportunity to get involved in sports, music or the arts. Whatever it may be, they would be able to get behind them and support them in their extracurricular activities and maybe take a modest vacation once in a while. Also, their taxpayer dollars were being used in such a way that if they needed to go to the hospital or see a doctor, they would have a family doctor, and health care would be accessible to do that.

I think the vast majority of Canadians my age and younger now feel that this covenant with the government has been broken. I hope it is not permanently broken, but most people feel like it has been broken in one way, shape or form. I believe the Liberal government's propensity to spend and go for this theme of the day or that theme of the day, without real direction, has caused us to be where we are today.

I would like to go back in time, because it may help us shape where we need to go in the future. If we go back 10 years ago and look at the budget that Stephen Harper and Joe Oliver presented to Canadians, there was a budget surplus. It had a clear path and direction. It had an enticement to get private capital investment into this country. They knew this was a country where people could do business and grow and expand within the country, because all the frameworks were there for that.

The deficit this year will be $78 billion. I never would have believed at the beginning of this year, after Justin Trudeau stepped down as prime minister, that the current Prime Minister, who announced he was going to run for the Liberal leadership, won it, was successful in the election and became the Prime Minister, would outperform Justin Trudeau in the deficit department. I did not think that was possible.

Out of all the thousands of doors I knocked on, I do not think the people I talked to thought this is what they were voting for either, although there were a few, once in a while, who said they were voting for him. I think they thought they were voting for a business person, not a spender like the previous prime minister and the finance minister were. We have somebody who was supposed to be a responsible fiscal manager but who now makes Justin Trudeau look like Warren Buffett. It is hard to believe, but he has done it. It is sad to be here listening to him sometimes, but that is the reality.

We will have a $78-billion deficit this year, and until the 2029-30 fiscal year, it is going to average $64 billion per year, which outdoes Justin Trudeau every year, except for when we had the COVID pandemic. It is really shameful. It is going to leave a shameful legacy if it is allowed to go on.

The other thing is that Justin's deficit this year was only projected to be $42 billion. His accumulated amount of debt over the same period of time was only going to be $131 billion. It is shocking to say “only”. That is still a lot of debt. With this version, maybe $265 billion over the next number of years will be added to our debt.

As for interest, I did hear many times today in our debate that there will be $53 billion in interest this year, going to $76 billion per year in just a few short years. The interest on the debt in 2015 was $25 billion. That puts into perspective what the interest was then compared to what the interest is now and the perils of the path we are on.

There was a Liberal member of Parliament who said that compared to Japan, we are looking pretty good. We should never compare ourselves to them, because they are just a few years ahead of the path we are on right now.

Another cause for concern is the amount of GST we collect every year. Projected roughly, we will collect $52 billion in GST this year, which would roughly cover interest payments, although paying interest is not what GST was set up for. If we project it out to the year when interest will be $76 billion, GST is only projected to bring in $62 billion, which is a tremendous amount of money, but it obviously falls short of covering interest. As I said, this is not what GST was meant for; it is just a comparison.

Total debt is over $2 trillion. If we go out to 2029-30, it will be $2.9 trillion. Sometimes we use the net debt number, but I do not think we should be using that number anymore; it should be total debt. The total debt in 2015 was $1 trillion. If we look at that, everything has doubled. That is a troubling trend considering that we had a balanced budget 10 years ago. We are starting to lose our fiscal ability to recover from this, as well as our path toward balance and the light at the end of the tunnel for the investment community.

Government expenditures, this year, are getting pretty close to $600 billion for the annual spend. Ten years ago, it was $288 billion. That is the lay of the land of where we are.

The other thing, and maybe in questions and answers we can get to it, is trade. Trade has been a big issue, obviously, in the news headlines. It has been a reality for Canadian exporters.

For a long time, I have been saying that we need a reconciliation in all our trade deals. There are trade deals, for example the comprehensive European trade deal, in which we are not getting our fair share. I have said this many times in the House. We do not get our fair share of what we bargained for. It was supposed to be $500 million or $600 million a year in trade with beef and pork. It is a fraction. We have a trade deficit with the United Kingdom on beef.

All of these things need to be reconciled. Canada has been a fair trader for many years, and it is time for us to get our share too.

Financial Statement of Minister of FinanceThe BudgetGovernment Orders

4:30 p.m.

Liberal

Doug Eyolfson Liberal Winnipeg West, MB

Madam Speaker, I have one specific question regarding the reference the hon. member made to the budget of 10 years ago by former prime minister Stephen Harper, where the member reported that there was a surplus. We must remember that among the things that government had to do to create the surplus was to cut our military spending to less than 1% of our GDP. The current government has been spending the last 10 years trying to increase that spending.

Would the hon. member agree that perhaps cutting our military spending to less than 1% of our GDP was worth it, to say that the Conservatives had a balanced budget?

Financial Statement of Minister of FinanceThe BudgetGovernment Orders

4:30 p.m.

Conservative

Ben Lobb Conservative Huron—Bruce, ON

Madam Speaker, the member is missing out on a few key points. One is to remember which government initiated the national shipbuilding project. With respect to some of the spending the Liberals may be taking credit for today, those seeds were planted many, many years ago.

Another thing I would also mention is the expenditures on the F-35. The bungling of the Liberal government on the F-35 lost us direct national benefits for the manufacturing of parts in this country. That was a major screw-up, to my mind. We would already have F-35s here today, we would have pilots trained and we would be able to be an active participant with NATO. We had a plan, and if the Liberals had just stuck to our plan, we would be years ahead today.

Financial Statement of Minister of FinanceThe BudgetGovernment Orders

4:30 p.m.

Bloc

Gabriel Ste-Marie Bloc Joliette—Manawan, QC

Madam Speaker, the government announced in the budget that it was eliminating the tax on web giants. That could well be included in the budget implementation bill. This tax was supposed to make up for the fact that these web giants pay no income tax. It was announced two years ago. Earlier this summer, the Prime Minister announced that he was scrapping the tax in order to secure a trade agreement that would get the U.S. President to lift the tariffs. The agreement did not materialize, however, yet that is still in the budget.

Does my hon. colleague believe, as I do, that this tax should be reinstated to restore a little fairness between our SMEs, businesses that are active here, and the web giants?

Financial Statement of Minister of FinanceThe BudgetGovernment Orders

4:30 p.m.

Conservative

Ben Lobb Conservative Huron—Bruce, ON

Madam Speaker, what I would say is that it was given up and there was nothing gained in return. At one time, the Liberals gave it up because they thought it would help them get to the negotiating table. We have done that too many times now, and that is unfortunate.

Another thing I would say to my Bloc colleague is that the Liberal government has way overstepped its boundaries and is so far into all the different areas of provincial jurisdiction. The Liberals have to pull back on some of that stuff, and they have to do an analysis of what the federal government's job actually is. This is not to say that the Liberals cannot partner with provinces, but they certainly cannot stick their toe into everything the provinces are supposed to be responsible for.

Financial Statement of Minister of FinanceThe BudgetGovernment Orders

4:30 p.m.

The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Alexandra Mendès) Alexandra Mendes

It is my duty pursuant to Standing Order 38 to inform the House that the questions to be raised tonight at the time of adjournment are as follows: the hon. member for Elgin—St. Thomas—London South, Automotive Industry; the hon. member for Swift Current—Grasslands—Kindersley, International Trade; the hon. member for Leduc—Wetaskiwin, Finance.

Financial Statement of Minister of FinanceThe BudgetGovernment Orders

4:35 p.m.

Conservative

Aaron Gunn Conservative North Island—Powell River, BC

Madam Speaker, I rise today to speak to the Liberal budget, a budget put forward by the government that I believe to be fiscally reckless, utterly immoral and lacking any kind of grand unifying vision that Canada, at this moment in its history, so desperately needs.

I speak first and foremost, as always, on behalf of my constituents of North Island—Powell River. However, I also feel duty-bound to speak today on behalf of another group of Canadians, a group without voice and without champion, a group of Canadians who are all too often overlooked, whose interests are marginalized and whose concerns are ignored. I speak of course of future generations, of people still in cradles, strollers and schools, and of those yet to be born.

Over the last 10 years of Liberal government, the debt being left to these future generations to pay for has doubled. Put another way, the Liberals have borrowed more money since 2015 than every other government in the history of this country combined, borrowing even more money than it took to build the national railway and to win the Second World War, and that is accounting for inflation.

Before the unveiling of this budget, I think many Canadians, including those of us here in opposition, were hoping for something bold and something special, a budget that was transformative, that was daring, that marked a clear departure from the decade of Justin Trudeau and that set Canada on a new fiscally sustainable path that a majority of Canadians could support with pride.

Instead, we got more than $300 billion in new debt and the largest deficit in Canadian history outside COVID. In other words, it was nothing remotely transformative at all but rather a simple continuation of the same old Liberal policies of spending money that we do not have and leaving the bill to the next generation to pay. If the same policies are enacted, we should not expect a different result.

For starters, we can expect the taxpayer money wasted paying interest on our debt to rise even further, with the government's own projections forecasting a 37% increase, to more than $76.1 billion a year. That is more than 11¢ of every dollar that Canadians pay in taxes squandered, taxpayer money that cannot be spent on roads, health care or Canada's national defence. It is money that is wasted paying interest to big banks on Bay Street.

Because governments rarely if ever pay back the principal on their debt, Canadians have to pay the interest over and over again, year after year. In fact Canada's federal debt today stands at around $1.2 trillion, yet since 1980, Canadians have paid over $1.4 trillion just in interest on that debt. I have not met a single Canadian who thinks that has been a good return on investment for them.

With the Liberals' announcing plans to spend and borrow even more, the problem will only be getting worse. Just to be clear, this is not an issue with taxes being too low, or some sort of government revenue problem. In 2015, when the budget was balanced, the government took in $282 billion in taxes and other government revenues. For the current fiscal year, today the government projects that number to be $507 billion, an increase of more than 80%.

The issue, instead, is reckless, totally unrestrained government spending that has increased during that same time period by 109%, to $586 billion this fiscal year. Now the Liberals have announced, in this budget, that they want to spend $90 billion more. What is their justification for all the spending and all the debt? It is the same tired refrain as it has always been, that Canadians need their government to step up to do and spend more.

However, if we look back on the last 10 years of faltering economic growth and ballooning national debt, we see the exact opposite. Canada's economic stagnation is not due to government not stepping up in any particular way. Canada's economic stagnation is the direct result of government, and the Liberal government in particular, getting in the way, whether by blocking pipelines like northern gateway and energy east, by scaring away investment with bills like Bill C-69 and Bill C-48 and the industrial carbon tax, or by overseeing a dramatic increase in federal spending and a doubling of Canada's national debt, with almost no discernible benefits to everyday Canadians.

What is more is that all of this reckless spending and borrowing has another cost: high inflation.

My grandfather, who will be turning 95 years old next month, first came to Canada in 1956, fleeing persecution and communism in eastern Europe. He instilled in me a very basic lesson early in life: There is no such thing as a free lunch, that everything has a cost and that eventually all bills come due.

That is also true about government spending and borrowing massive amounts of money. If the government injects billions of dollars into the economy without producing more of what that money buys, it will not make Canadians any richer or any better off; it will simply devalue the Canadian dollar and by extension make the same goods more expensive than they were before. That is why, over the last decade of the Liberal government, we have experienced the highest levels of inflation in 30 years, at a time when the majority of Canadians identify the cost of living as the single most pressing concern in the country.

At a time when Canadians identify the rising price of goods and homes as their most important issue, the government has introduced a massive budget deficit that will make that exact problem even worse. Because assets like homes and stocks tend to experience a corresponding increase in value along with inflation, inflating the money supply always ends up hurting most the people with less, especially younger Canadians. It is truly a regressive economic and social policy that prioritizes political short-sightedness over long-term economic strength and generational equity.

Of course, our Prime Minister claims that he is not spending more money and that nothing could be farther from the truth. Instead, he is investing; he is building Canada strong. The truth is that a deficit is a deficit, and government debt is government debt. All the money that is borrowed in tax goes into one giant pot and then is spent on a variety of government priorities. Creditors do not care if we borrowed the money in order to build a road, to pay teachers or to buy new submarines. It all costs interest. It all erodes our fiscal capacity as a country, and it is all being passed on to the next generation to pay for.

Here is the kicker. The new Prime Minister, the fiscal hawk, the central banker, is planning to borrow more than double what Justin Trudeau was planning: $321 billion over the next five years.

Many people probably know me from my last five or six years of making political documentaries or other short films, but before that I worked with a group called the Canadian Taxpayers Federation. My role at the CTF was to organize and tour its giant debt clock, which showed how much debt governments in Canada had racked up and how fast that number was ticking up, to university campuses right across this country, to wake up the next generation whose future was being mortgaged by a cabal of politicians either too blind or too self-serving to recognize and admit a truth that only numbers can truly tell: that this country was and is on the path to insolvency and that we are leaving young Canadians with the bill.

It is for this reason more than any other that, as a Conservative, I will be opposing this budget, a budget that spends and borrows on the backs of those who in the last election did not have a vote and did not have a say.

This brings to mind a very Canadian thing that used to happen, and I suppose still sometimes happens, at Tim Hortons drive-throughs right across this country, where people would pay it forward. Someone would drive up to the window, only to find out that an anonymous stranger in the car in front of them had paid for their coffee and their doughnut. It was always a pleasant surprise.

For future generations, the government's budget is the exact opposite. It is like someone's driving up to the window with $5 in hand to cover their double-double and Boston cream, only to find out that the guy in front of them had not paid his bill and that now they are on the hook for not only their own meal but for his as well. That is government debt. It is unethical, it is unfair, and it is something I hope all parliamentarians will join me in fighting and voting against.