Debates of Oct. 8th, 2026

Sergei Magnitsky International Anti-Corruption and Human Rights Act

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

Madam Speaker, yes, this is important. Originally, the bill called for the minister's office to publish the names of political prisoners we have been advocating for. After reflection and testimonies that were heard at the committee, it was decided to take that component out. However, it allows us to ensure that the Government of Canada is always standing up, first and foremost, for human rights in Canada and around the world and for actions taken to promote human rights around the world.

Having it tabled here gives a chance for the foreign affairs committee or others to go through and hear from the minister and study that report and look at the cases that the government is working on, especially on the broad scale. Although it is not in the bill anymore, Parliament has the opportunity, through committees, to hear from diaspora groups and other experts on corruption and gross human rights violations and bring those to the committee, which can report it back to the House.

[Ziad Aboultaif, Conservative, Edmonton Manning, AB]

Madam Speaker, I congratulate my hon. colleague for bringing this forward to strengthen the current protocol or regime we have regarding this important issue. Why is this bill very important?

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

Madam Speaker, first and foremost, this bill is about coordination of how we sanction corrupt foreign officials and how we go after human rights abusers within our own regulatory framework and, more importantly, how we ensure that we are working in better coordination with our allies. If the free world countries, democratic states in the EU, our NATO allies and our democratic allies in the Asia-Pacific, are not working in lockstep, which this bill encourages, then those corrupt foreign officials, those oligarchs, those world leaders who are enriching themselves at the cost of their own citizens, persist. I take, for example, how the Falun Gong community has been used. People have been victimized and killed and their organs illegally harvested and sold all around the world. If we are not working in lockstep to sanction the individuals who are enriching themselves on this black market, this grotesque trade in human organs, we will never be able to stop them. This is about working together so that we can stand up for the human rights of those individuals and others around the world.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Madam Speaker, I want to congratulate my colleague on his bill, which will certainly be very useful. I would like him to talk a bit about the process for sanctioning states or individuals.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

Madam Speaker, right now the process is that the government, through its assessment, determines which individuals are responsible for allowing a state, government, organization or individuals who are actually out there acting inappropriately and abusing the rights of individuals. I will go back to the Falun Gong practitioners example. There are actually doctors out there and others who are involved in this grotesque trade of illicitly harvested human organs: hearts, lungs, livers, kidneys. It is a disgusting practice. Never mind what the PRC regime is doing to the Uyghurs, having them reprogrammed and sterilizing them and using them as forced labour, essentially slave labour. By having this bill, we would more clearly define what those prisoners of conscience and human rights defenders are, and ensure that we are standing up and fighting for each and every one of them around the world.

[Chi Nguyen, Liberal, Spadina—Harbourfront, ON]

Madam Speaker, I rise in the House today to speak to Bill C-219, the Sergei Magnitsky international anti-corruption and human rights act.

I would like to thank the hon. member for Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman for bringing this legislation forward. It was very helpful to have more of the context and the story behind why he has been pushing forward this bill.

Bill C-219 reflects core values that Canada has always represented. These values are represented in the institutions we have built as a country, including the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. The charter was introduced under a Liberal government and reflects our nationwide commitment to fundamental freedoms, equality, democratic rights and the rule of law. These values do not stop at our borders. They also shape how we engage internationally. When we speak out against human rights abuses or take action against corruption and repression abroad, we do so because these are the core values that Canadians believe in.

Bill C-219 would build on these principles by strengthening Canada's ability to better respond to international human rights challenges and violations while also continuing to uphold the humanitarian principles that define us.

Bill C-219 proposes amendments to three laws: the Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development Act; the Special Economic Measures Act; and the Justice for Victims of Corrupt Foreign Officials Act. The amendments would strengthen Canada's sanctions and update human rights frameworks. These amendments would occur in the following ways.

Firstly, the bill would amend the DFATD Act to require the minister to report annually on human rights efforts, including efforts to secure the release of human rights defenders and prisoners of conscience.

The bill would also amend the Special Economic Measures Act and the Justice for Victims of Corrupt Foreign Officials Act to lower the threshold for the use of sanctions to be inclusive of emerging threats like transnational repression and cybercrime. It would also provide for increased penalties, establish clear timelines and rename Canada's existing sanctions legislation to commemorate Sergei Magnitsky.

The Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs and International Development also made important amendments to further strengthen the bill. The reporting provisions were amended to take into consideration the complex situation that prisoners of conscience and human rights defenders are in, while still making sure the government is accountable in publishing an annual report on these activities.

The committee also adopted a broadened trigger related to conduct that undermines peace, stability and democracy, allowing the government to sanction individuals for a wide range of activities including cybercrime, organized crime, arbitrary detention and other forms of transnational misconduct. These changes recognize that threats to human rights increasingly cross borders. Canada must be equipped to respond to evolving challenges.

The amendments would also ensure that the seizure of private assets of sanctioned individuals follows a clear legislative process and timeline while ensuring that due process is respected. These changes would also increase and align evasion penalties to provide greater consistency through a Canada sanctions framework.

The work on this bill shows what we can achieve when parliamentarians work productively together. The committee spent weeks working collaboratively to strengthen the legislation by removing provisions that could have created unnecessary burdens, hindered the government's ability to adapt sanctions or potentially put human rights defenders at risk. This is a strong example of how multipartisan efforts can make Canada stronger, both here at home and abroad.

Bill C-219 would make important changes to modernize Canada's sanctions regime. These measures would increase accountability by requiring the government to publish an annual report on efforts to advance human rights.

In recent months, our country has been having important discussions about how Canada can strengthen its role on the stage as a middle power. As Prime Minister Mark Carney has noted, middle powers like Canada are not powerless in the face of global uncertainty. By working with like-minded partners—

[An hon. member]

Oh, oh!

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Alexandra Mendès), Alexandra Mendes]

I have to advise the hon. member that we cannot use the names of current members.

I thank the hon. member for Regina—Lewvan for noticing it.

[Chi Nguyen, Liberal, Spadina—Harbourfront, ON]

Madam Speaker, by working with like-minded partners, we can help uphold human rights, defend democracy and strengthen the rules-based international order. On the world stage, our government has been working hard on strengthening our international relationships and trade. We have advanced engagement with Vietnam, India, the Philippines and ASEAN partners, among others. We are on track to doubling Canada's preferential global market access from 1.5 billion to three billion consumers in the next six months.

Canada's role as a middle power is about more than trade. It is also about working with partners to defend human rights, uphold the rule of law and respond to those who threaten peace, security and democratic institutions. Trade cannot come at the expense of workers, whether in Canada or in our partner countries. Supporting labour rights and workers' rights helps ensure that Canadian trade is not built on exploitation or sweatshop conditions. We must also take corruption seriously. Corruption undermines democratic institutions, weakens economic development, distorts markets and erodes public trust.

Canada has rightly recognized the strategic importance of regions such as the Indo-Pacific, and we do not need to wait for countries to achieve perfect democratic outcomes before building strong bilateral relationships. Engagement allows Canada to strengthen economic ties, deepen people-to-people connections and create opportunities for co-operation on shared challenges. We know we cannot meaningfully engage in international trade and strengthen Canada's presence on the world stage without also standing up for the most vulnerable in places where their rights are neglected.

I often hear from constituents in my riding of Spadina—Harbourfront about their concerns regarding international human rights abuses. As one of Canada's most diverse communities, Spadina—Harbourfront is home to people with roots in every corner of the world. Many remain closely connected to family, friends and communities abroad. I have had the opportunity to meet with a wide range of constituents, many of whom have been very clear with me about the importance of democratic institutions, human rights and fundamental freedoms. These conversations remind me that human rights cannot be held as abstract concepts. The consequences of political repression, arbitrary detention, corruption and democratic backsliding are felt by real people in real time.

Canadians expect their elected officials to stand up for the human rights and dignity of all people. They also expect our government to take urgent action. Our government continues to defend human rights through targeted sanctions against individuals responsible for gross human rights violations. Since 2022, Canada has sanctioned nearly 4,000 entities or vessels. In total, over 5,000 individuals and entities have been designated by Canada across its autonomous sanctions regime. Our government remains committed to playing a leadership role in preserving and strengthening the international rules-based order.

As Canadians, we are proud of our commitment to democracy, human rights and the rule of law. These values are reflected in our charter, our institutions and the way we engage with the world. Human rights are not only Canadian values but universal values.

Sanctions are one means of ensuring accountability when individuals engage in serious human rights abuses. Bill C-219 recognizes that these threats continue to evolve and that Canada's legislative framework evolves alongside them. At its core, this bill is about accountability and ensuring that people responsible for serious human rights abuses and corruption face consequences for their actions. Bill C-219 would strengthen our ability to meet that significant responsibility and lead us toward a more secure and just world.

Canada must stand up when rights and freedoms are under threat. For that reason, I am pleased to support this legislation.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Madam Speaker, after a thorough and careful study in committee, the Bloc Québécois will be voting in favour of Bill C-219.

This is an important initiative aimed at strengthening our legislative framework on international human rights. As mentioned earlier, this bill proposes a definition of what constitutes a prisoner of conscience. A prisoner of conscience is an individual who, in contravention of international human rights standards, has been detained or otherwise physically restricted solely because of their identity or their conscientiously held beliefs, including religious or political beliefs.

One of the purposes of this bill is to amend the Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development Act to require foreign affairs ministers to table an annual report in Parliament on the government's actions to advance human rights internationally. The report would include information on political prisoners and prisoners of conscience, as well as Canada's efforts to support them. Bill C-219 is essentially the same as Bill C-281, which received the unanimous support of the House of Commons at third reading before dying on the Order Paper in the Senate.

This bill includes one vital component that we welcome and fully endorse: recognition of transnational repression. This was requested by the Bloc Québécois and it even formed part of its election platform. The bill defines transnational repression as:

tactics used by a foreign state to intimidate, harass, surveil or threaten individuals or groups located outside the state borders or physically harm such individuals or members of such groups, including elected officials, political dissidents, human rights defenders, exiled journalists, diaspora communities, civil society activists and refugees, for the purpose of silencing dissent and stifling activism.‍

In Quebec and Canada, we regularly confront transnational repression. Examples were given earlier involving our Uyghur, Tibetan and Taiwanese friends, but there are many others. I have seen cases of transnational repression targeting Kabylia separatists first-hand. Many of them report that simply expressing their opinions publicly or on social media can provoke intimidation against family members and retaliatory measures in Algeria.

This bill broadens the scope of the Justice for Victims of Corrupt Foreign Officials Act, also known as the Sergei Magnitsky law, as mentioned earlier, by adding transnational repression to the list of explicit grounds for imposing sanctions on foreign individuals. As has already been noted, Sergei Magnitsky was a Russian lawyer who exposed corruption in the Kremlin. He was subsequently imprisoned for fraud in a Moscow jail. He died in custody in 2009 after being subjected to torture.

Bill C-219 will strengthen efforts to combat attempts by foreign states to intimidate, surveil or harass individuals living in Quebec, Canada or elsewhere outside their national borders. It will enable Canada to impose sanctions on foreign nationals who have engaged in activities that undermine international peace, security or stability in a manner inconsistent with international law or who are responsible for, or complicit in, gross and systematic violations of internationally recognized human rights or acts of corruption. The bill also enhances the effectiveness of sanctions by prohibiting visas and other official documents from being issued to the immediate family members of sanctioned individuals. This measure recognizes that family members are often used by sanctioned individuals and criminal actors, both in Canada and abroad, to circumvent the sanctions in place.

The bill would give the government new tools by requiring close inter-institutional co-operation between the RCMP and the Financial Transactions and Reports Analysis Centre of Canada, which would have to give the department the necessary information to develop and track the application of these sanctions. Some provisions aim to facilitate the seizure and possible forfeiture of assets belonging to sanctioned foreign officials.

The bill would also amend the Broadcasting Act to prevent the issuance, renewal or continuation of licences for broadcasting undertakings influenced by foreign persons or entities involved in a genocide recognized by Parliament or already sanctioned by Canada.

All in all, Bill C‑219 would strengthen human rights protections, help in the fight against foreign interference and increase government accountability in the implementation of international sanctions. That is why we will support Bill C‑219.

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Madam Speaker, I am pleased to rise today to speak to this private member's bill, Bill C-219, an act to amend the Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development Act; the Justice for Victims of Corrupt Foreign Officials Act, Sergei Magnitsky Law; and the Special Economic Measures Act, which will also be known as the Sergei Magnitsky Law No. 2.

I want to begin by again acknowledging the member for Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman for his leadership in introducing and championing this bill.

For generations, countries around the world have regarded Canada as a global leader in the protection of human rights and the promotion of democratic values.

Bill C‑219 will introduce significant reforms to increase transparency and modernize Canada's sanctions regime so that it reflects the challenges we face today. This all-party effort will improve Canada's ability to hold those who violate human rights to account.

I was encouraged by the constructive discussions that took place on Bill C-219 at the House of Commons Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs and International Development. As a committee, we worked together to adopt several amendments to strengthen the bill, improving the effectiveness and flexibility of its key elements while mitigating risks and unintended consequences. I will focus my remarks today on these key improvements.

First, we brought greater coherence to how the Minister of Foreign Affairs should report on the government's efforts. Bill C-219 proposes amendments to the Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development Act that introduce a new requirement for the minister to report annually on Canada's efforts to advance human rights internationally. We welcome this requirement as an important step to demonstrate how Canada is promoting and protecting human rights, but how we report is important.

It is essential to protect the safety and privacy of human rights activists. Canada's approach to supporting human rights activists is guided by the do no harm principle.

In its original form, the bill required the report to include a detailed list of the names and circumstances of the prisoners of conscience whom Canada was trying to help. Many witnesses told the committee that publishing such a list could have serious consequences, including causing undue harm to detainees or having unintended consequences on the delivery of consular services to Canadians.

Instead, the report would now protect those most vulnerable, and it would outline more broadly the measures taken by the government to support human rights defenders and prisoners of conscience internationally as part of Canada's foreign policy.

Second, to honour the life and work of Sergei Magnitsky, the committee agreed to rename Canada's existing sanctions laws. This would make Canada the first country to have Sergei Magnitsky laws with a total of three in the franchise: the Justice for Victims of Corrupt Foreign Officials Act, the first Sergei Magnitsky law; SEMA, Sergei Magnitsky Law No. 2; and Bill C-219, Sergei Magnitsky Law No. 3.

Third, Bill C-219 seeks to expand and clarify the circumstances under which sanctions may be imposed, including in response to transnational repression. Committee amendments were adopted to further strengthen and expand Canada's legal basis for sanctions.

We have adopted not only a criterion for imposing sanctions in cases of transnational repression but also a broader criterion related to threats to peace, stability and democracy. This will enable the government to impose sanctions on those responsible for a wide variety of transnational crimes, including cybercrime, organized crime, arbitrary detention, threats to democracy and so on.

Fourth, Bill C-219 imposes mandatory timelines for the forfeiture and disposal of property seized under existing laws.

Fifth, we have increased and aligned evasion penalties, to be consistent throughout our existing legislation.

Finally, the committee removed elements of the bill in order to increase its effectiveness, reduce red tape and ensure the overall coherence of Canadian legislation. Simply put, these problematic provisions would not have improved Canada's ability to respond to human rights abuses.

In a world of growing uncertainty, Canada's core values continue to guide our government's foreign policy. We will always work to hold anyone to account who violates human rights, democracy or the rule of law.

In closing, I want to thank the member for Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman and my colleagues on the Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs and International Development once again for the cross-party work that has made Bill C-219 a solid piece of legislation. By working together, we reaffirm Canada's leadership on human rights and send a clear message: Canada will never stand idly by or keep silent when confronted with attacks against human dignity.

By working together, we will continue to make sure that Canada can serve as a beacon in an uncertain world. Our government will continue to add to Canada's human rights legacy and will honour the sacrifices that have been made in fights against tyranny and oppression.

I look forward to seeing Bill C-219 implemented.

[Sameer Zuberi, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

Madam Speaker, it is an honour to rise today to speak in support of Bill C‑219.

I also want to thank the member for Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman for introducing this bill, as well as the members of the Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs and International Development for their work.

We are here today to talk, first off, about a new and important update around the sanctions regime. At the same time, we are honouring an important figure in world history, Sergei Magnitsky, who was a brave soul and brave person who stood up to tyrants, who stood up to those who were abusing rights. He gave his life for that at the age of 37. We know that he was imprisoned and suffered grave mistreatment. Even after he died at 37 years of age, he was tried, the reasons for which just boggle the mind. The man had already lost his life and he was tried after the fact.

We are honouring Sergei Magnitsky, an important individual in world history. While thinking about his name, we can take his example and remember what he did. He challenged authority, he challenged injustice and he stood strong. That is what I would suggest we in this House all need to do.

This bill is an improvement from one that was previously deposited in a previous Parliament, and a number of fixes have come about. Before I get to that, though, it is important to note that 60% of the sanctions that Canada has implemented have manifested within the last four years. These sanctions have touched on a number of different themes and different subjects. They include sanctions against Russian officials due to the unjustified occupation and war in Ukraine. They include sanctions against Chinese officials for what is happening within the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region. They include sanctions against West Bank settlers because of activities in the State of Palestine, West Bank. They include sanctions against the IRGC and Russian officials because of what the IRGC has done to its own people. There are others. These sanctions are an important signal to those who break international norms and abuse human rights and are a deterring mechanism so that anybody who abuses basic dignity and promotes grave violations knows they will face consequences.

Canada has always stood up for human rights. Within the international community, we are looked upon as a leading voice and are looked upon as a country that promotes the rules-based order. Therefore, this update put forth by the member opposite is an important update and is salutary.

It is important to note the people who have been working here in Canada and overseas on this. At the subcommittee on international human rights, we did a study on a particular aspect that relates to this legislation: transnational repression. We heard from a number of witnesses who themselves had been subject to transnational repression or were advocating on behalf of those who had been subject to transnational repression. They included Tibetans. They included Falun Gong and Falun Dafa advocates. They included Uyghurs. They included Hong Kongers, and others. We heard from those who have suffered repression from Iran's government and Russia, just to name a few countries.

All of those brave souls spoke about the different methods of transnational repression. They spoke about how they and their families were harassed and intimidated and how that happened both online and off-line, and said that anonymous people during important moments sought to intimidate and silence them. These people chose not to be silenced, though, like Sergei Magnitsky.

They have shared how challenging it is to be working in an environment where there is transnational repression and how important it is for us, as a country, to confront it, respond to it and address it. There are a number of ways in which we address it. One way is through our intelligence agencies and the RCMP, which are fully monitoring what is happening and ensuring that foreign actors are not involved in transnational repression or foreign interference. There are reports that can be made to the police and to the RCMP. While they are not perfect, they exist and they are a method to address this issue. The updated legislation we are addressing today is another method, because it would allow for sanctions to be administered when individuals are propagating transnational repression, whatever its form, be it in person, online or in any way.

I also want to speak about the importance of those who are raising their voice, not only here in Canada but overseas. Initially, when this legislation was deposited in the previous Parliament, it asked that we give details that would have compromised human rights defenders overseas. Thankfully, that has been fixed in this legislation by the foreign affairs committee. What happened is—

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

We fixed that in the last Parliament.

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Alexandra Mendès), Alexandra Mendes]

Order. This is not a conversation. The hon. member will have the opportunity to make his comments outside of the chamber.

The hon. member for Pierrefonds—Dollard can finish his speech.

[Sameer Zuberi, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

Madam Speaker, thankfully, that has been fixed in this legislation, ensuring that the personal information of human rights defenders who are in grave situations would not be rendered public. In a previous version, the challenge was that this data would not be not anonymized. Today, it would be anonymized and, therefore, a report can be made to Parliament. That is a very positive new addition.

Again, I want to underscore how important it is that we are working together to make this happen and that there has been some great work done by the foreign affairs committee to get to this point. I look forward to this legislature passing the bill and seeing it become law.

I also want to salute and thank everyone who stands up for human rights, be it here in Canada or overseas. They are an inspiration to us, and we should take the lesson they are giving us so that we can really defend what is good, proper and right.

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Alexandra Mendès), Alexandra Mendes]

I invite the hon. member for Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman to rise for his right of reply. He has five minutes.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

Madam Speaker, I want to thank all my colleagues who participated in tonight's debate. I particularly want to thank the member for Stormont—Dundas—Glengarry for seconding the bill at third reading. He is our shadow minister for foreign affairs.

Our previous shadow minister for foreign affairs, the member for Wellington—Halton Hills North, was a huge asset in helping to get the bill through committee, making amendments and trying to negotiate compromise where necessary to get a better bill at the end of the day. There were some things that I wish were still in there but were gutted by the majority on committee, the Liberals.

I also want to recognize the member for Northumberland—Clarke, because in the last Parliament he brought forward a private member's bill called the international human rights act. Part of his bill is in the bill before us. It would require the minister to have an annual report on advocating for human rights, political prisoners and prisoners of conscience around the world.

I think it is also important to recognize the Minister of Foreign Affairs. It was with her support that we were able to get to all-party consensus on this private member's bill.

It is important that we recognize the efforts of a number of diaspora communities here in Canada that have been wanting these changes, have worked closely with me and my office for quite some time and have been the targets of transnational repression and foreign interference. I want to recognize the Hong Konger community; the Taiwanese community; Ukrainians; Belarusians; Tibetans; Russians for democracy; the Uyghurs, whom I have met with many times; members of the Falun Dafa; and the Burmese, Persian and of course the Iranian communities right across this country.

I also have to recognize and thank Ian Lynch from Integrity Initiatives International, which is leading the charge to establish an international anti-corruption court in The Hague. He has definitely had input in this.

We have also had great assistance from the Hon. Irwin Cotler and the Hon. John McKay. They have been supportive. They have been huge assets. They are people who have stood up for human rights around the world and have been backing the bill from the start.

Finally, we have to thank all the witnesses who appeared at committee, providing their expert testimony: Kate McInnes; Brandon Silver, who works with Irwin Cotler; Marcus Kolga, who has done so much in fighting for the Belarusian community and the Baltics as well, fighting against Russian aggression and corruption; and Bill Browder, who is the founder and CEO of Hermitage Capital Management. He is the one who hired Sergei Magnitsky, he is the one on whom the Russians committed the $230 million tax fraud, and he is the one who has been advocating for Sergei Magnitsky sanctions, not just in Canada but in the U.K., the United States and around the world.

I also want to recognize the testimony from Vladimir Kara-Murza, who is the vice-president of Open Russia. He has been poisoned twice by the Kremlin, has been jailed twice by the Kremlin and continues to fight against Vladimir Putin, stand up for democracy and human rights and fight corruption in Russia and around the world.

There were many people behind the scenes, of course, including my staff and people we have worked with across party lines to make the bill possible.

By passing Bill C-219, we would be advancing human rights and standing up for our shared democratic values and the freedom that everyone needs to enjoy.

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Alexandra Mendès), Alexandra Mendes]

The question is on the motion.

If a member participating in person wishes that the motion be carried or carried on division, or if a member of a recognized party participating in person wishes to request a recorded division, I would invite them to rise and indicate it to the Chair.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

Madam Speaker, there has been discussion among all parties, and we are in agreement that the bill do now pass.

(Motion agreed to, bill read the third time and passed)

A motion to adjourn the House under Standing Order 38 deemed to have been moved.

The Economy

[Warren Steinley, Conservative, Regina—Lewvan, SK]

Madam Speaker, it is a pleasure to join in adjournment debates this evening.

I asked a question in May, before we adjourned for the summer, about microlooting and said the most popular talk show in Regina and across Saskatchewan, The Evan Bray Show, talked about whether it is okay to steal groceries or microloot at grocery stores because grocery prices are so high. I asked the minister that question. The answer I got back was not sufficient, in my opinion. She actually talked about day care when I was talking about the price of groceries. I think it is an important conversation because we are talking about the price of groceries and basically the affordability crisis that we are seeing right now across the country.

I think the hon. member for Whitby is going to answer this question, so I am going to make it short and sweet. I know he has a family. I have three kids, and my wife and I go grocery shopping. Have the member and his wife seen grocery prices go down over the last three years or go up?

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Finance and National Revenue and to the Secretary of State (Canada Revenue Agency and Financial Institutions)]

Madam Speaker, the hon. member for Regina—Lewvan and I have had lots of spirited debates in this House before, and I appreciate his question.

I do have a family. I have three daughters and a wife. I am very proud of them and very happy to support them. I do a lot of the grocery shopping in my family and, in fact, a lot of the cooking, which I enjoy very much.

The member opposite should be able to recognize the way household budgets work. People might save money on child care, save money on dental care, get a Canada child benefit cheque, get the groceries and essentials benefit or benefit from the income tax cut given to 22 million Canadians. There are a number of other programs, measures and benefits that our government has put in place.

By my estimate, for the average family of four in my riding of Whitby, and I am sure it is the same in the member opposite's riding, there is approximately $30,000 a year of savings to the household budget. That is over a course of a year, so divide that by 12 months. It is a significant amount.

My family is a good example, but I think for many families across my riding, there are significant savings. That does not directly address the cost of groceries, which I acknowledge are a challenge for families, but with those costs decreasing, families on fixed incomes are able to afford the essentials and the things they need.

Let us be honest. The groceries and essentials benefit is specifically designed to increase the GST rebate in order to address the very issue the member opposite is pointing to. The national school food program is another example of how we are saving families money. It is essentially for children from lower-income families. In fact, it has universal access, and so any family whose kid is going to school and may not have the nutritional support they need from their household is able to access school lunches or breakfast programs all across the country. That is 400,000 more kids who are able to eat at school and get the sustenance they need to learn, grow and develop.

The member opposite voted against many of these measures. I am not sure how he can stand up and lecture us about the price of groceries when in fact he voted against the very supports we put in place as a government that affect household budgets. Remember, we cut tax on income, housing and fuel. We cut tax on new business investment, making Canada the most tax-competitive advanced economy in the entire world, by the way. That is the productivity mega deduction.

It is very hard for me to stand here and listen to the member opposite's question. I get that he wants to ask his question, but I think he should acknowledge the facts. With household budgets, when people can save money in one or two other places, it better enables them to afford the monthly costs of groceries and essentials.

[Warren Steinley, Conservative, Regina—Lewvan, SK]

Madam Speaker, I thank the member for Whitby, but he did not answer the question, because he does not want to tell the actual truth about what is going on with grocery prices. He is kind of channelling his inner Jean Chrétien: A proof is a proof.

The member talked about child care. Well, if a person is lucky enough to hit the lottery and get a government-subsidized child care spot, they are saving that money, but for everyone across Saskatchewan, it is actually called a child care wasteland because there are so few spots. In Saskatchewan, 30% to 40% of the people are waiting for that subsidized child care spot. They are not saving the money this guy is talking about. It is actually ridiculous.

Also, I have friends who have kids in child care now, and because the money does not actually cover the cost to hire people and to feed the kids, they are charging parents another $100 or $200 to help cover the cost. Parents are paying more out of their pocket because the money the government has given for the day care spots does not cover the cost it is supposed to, for those children to get the care they want, so I—

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Alexandra Mendès), Alexandra Mendes]

The member is out of time.

The hon. parliamentary secretary has the floor.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

Madam Speaker, the hon. member for Regina—Lewvan should hold his provincial government accountable to the agreements that it signed with the federal government.

We transferred significant amounts of federal taxpayer dollars to every province and territory in the country in order to expand the number of child care spots. We are committed to child care because we know it works. It is a great policy. It increases productivity in the economy. It increases the rate at which parents return to work. It increases the productivity and labour market participation of women in particular, which is a great advancement for our country. The highest participation rate of women in our history is the result of that specific program.

For an average family in my riding, do members know how much it costs for child care? It is $1,800. That price has come down to $410 per month for anyone who can get a child care spot. There are a significant number of people saving $1,400 a month. That is a mortgage payment for many—