Bob Mills

[Justice, February 5th, 1999]

Mr. Speaker, the question is that the unescorted permit for this person was granted. Yes, he arrived at the hospital and a guard was kept there because the hospital demanded that happen.

Why did this warden draw up that permit for this criminal? Why did that happen? Why did this warden draw up that unescorted permit and why did he sign it?

[Justice, February 5th, 1999]

Mr. Speaker, following up on the Liberal justice system, on April 10, 1998, Eric Wanamaker broke out of Bowden penitentiary. He then is alleged to have kidnapped and sexually assaulted a 14 year old girl. He was recaptured and three months later he received a two week unescorted pass.

My question is for the solicitor general. Why was this unescorted pass drawn up and why did the warden sign it?

[Military Missions Beyond The Boundaries Of Canada, February 4th, 1999]

Mr. Speaker, I think all of us were certainly touched by the comments of the member for Churchill River.

It is fitting to end the debate on that tone when we are talking about the lives of Canadian men and women and active military missions. We should not mix it up. We are all proud of our forces. We should not mix up the ice storms and various other disasters.

We are talking about going to war and we are saying that the Canadian parliament should decide that. We owe that to our troops. We owe that to the morale of our troops. We should let them know that 301 of us are behind them when they go on a mission like this. That is the purpose of this motion. To change it in any other way is simply wrong and misleading.

We support peacekeeping missions. We support peacemaking missions. We believe that our troops do exceptionally well at them. We are simply asking that when lives are being threatened, bring it to the House so we can debate it here.

I go back to the foreign affairs minister and remind members across the way that prior to 1993, as the foreign affairs critic, he made the point over and over again that the previous government did not bring the decision to parliament when we decided to send troops into war. He condemned the government for that. I have read those speeches over and over again. I thought he meant it.

Again, last week when the Prime Minister said we were sending troops to Kosovo, our foreign affairs minister contradicted him by saying “No, we should go to parliament”. I still believe he has that mission.

I hope that on Tuesday when we vote I at least see the foreign affairs minister stand on what he has said so many times and as recently as last week.

[Military Missions Beyond The Boundaries Of Canada, February 4th, 1999]

Mr. Speaker, that is correct.

[Military Missions Beyond The Boundaries Of Canada, February 4th, 1999]

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order. I seek unanimous consent to close off the debate on my motion with about a two or three minute presentation.

[Kosovo, February 4th, 1999]

Mr. Speaker, I take this opportunity to issue our condolences to the people of Kosovo who are suffering such horrendous hardship. We watch daily in disbelief and disgust the slaughter and destruction. Like Bosnia a few years ago the issues are complex, emotional and rooted deep in history.

It is critical that we end the conflict and push forward in a long term solution to the problem. We must do everything in our power to force Yugoslav President Slobodan Milosevic and Kosovo leaders to the negotiating table tomorrow in Paris.

The Prime Minister's total disrespect for parliament by publicly announcing the commitment of ground troops to NATO is unacceptable. We must have a clear and open debate in the House of Commons followed by a free vote before we commit troops to any NATO action in Kosovo.

This issue is addressed in Motion No. 380 on which all of us will vote next Tuesday. It makes clear that when Canadian lives and resources are being committed it is the people of Canada who should make that decision through parliament.

[Petitions, February 1st, 1999]

Madam Speaker, today I would like to present a petition from 271 people in my riding of Red Deer.

These citizens request that parliament enact legislation such as Bill C-225 so as to define in statute that marriage can only be entered into between a single male and a single female.

[Donations, December 9th, 1998]

Mr. Speaker, 'tis the season of giving. As the holiday season approaches I call upon all Canadians to strongly support their grassroots charities.

Nowhere is the plight of the poor more apparent than here in the capital region where over 30,000 people, half of them children, rely upon food assistance services each month. We can all begin by giving generously to our local foodbanks.

Parliamentary interns, with the support of the Canadian Bankers Association, are once again organizing a food drive and require our support. Non-perishable food and cash donations can be dropped off at the cafeterias and canteens on the Hill. Collection boxes will remain open until Friday, December 11. The interns will also be visiting our offices this week to collect cans and cash donations. All proceeds will be matched by the Canadian Bankers Association. Last year they raised $2,100.

We should support this praiseworthy initiative and give generously. On behalf of all MPs, a very special thanks to our interns.

[Corruption Of Foreign Public Officials Act, December 7th, 1998]

What about Kim? Kim was certainly defeated. She managed to do a real good job of being defeated, and there she is off in Beverly Hills.

These appointments conjure up something in our minds.

We look at the Senate and we see a bunch of party hacks working on campaigns, raising funds for the party. We ask ourselves, what about corruption? What about democracy? Again we have problems.

The Parliament Buildings were supposed to cost under half a billion dollars. Now it is $1.4 billion. What do Canadians think about that? In planet Ottawa maybe those things are fine, but out on the street it is not so fine, it is not so happy. We have to address these kinds of things.

We could talk about what people think about the social union. People think that their health care is hurt, that their education systems are not as good as they were and that the social policies are not working. They have food banks, housing problems and all kinds of other problems. They ask “What is government doing about it?”

Government is cutting funding. Health care has been cut by $7 billion in the last five years. Again I come back to the fact that there is no plan. The government does not know where it is going. It has no master plan.

Does the government know what it is going to do in agriculture? Certainly other places in the world are looking at it. Why would agreements be signed when other places like the European Union or the U.S. are giving grants to everybody? Why did we not negotiate a better deal? What is wrong with the people who allowed us get into a situation like that?

I will talk about the policing problem. In my area the police showed up at a rotary meeting begging the Rotary Club to help provide a motorcycle because motorcycles are more efficient at catching speeders and people going through red lights. Why were they at the Rotary Club? Because the government has cut their funding. In the past month they were told not to use their cellphones any more and to put two cars in the garage. They could not use them because of funding cuts. Meanwhile we have young offenders, break-ins and all kinds of other problems happening.

What is happening to our system?

We can talk about the pension plan and the 73% increase in the cost of the plan. Talk to a young person and ask them about investment in the pension plan. If they are 20 or 25 years old and they put 9.9% of their income in until they are 65, ask them what kind of an investment that is.

I did a little survey last January. It was very interesting. I think the House might be interested in this survey. It was to go door to door in Chile, a country that has had a pension plan for 26 years. It is a private pension plan. They invest in their own pension. They own the pension plan themselves. I found an overwhelming pride among the low, middle and upper class of income earners. There was a real pride in that pension plan because it meant something.

How about employment insurance? People certainly question that the government is collecting $350 per person more than it can use. It is also collecting $500 per business per worker. And we are going to give back 15 cents per $100. Are we not just wonderful?

People ask “What is happening down there? Is that place corrupt?” Ask people what they think about Ottawa and they will bring up these kinds of items. They will not necessarily talk about the big international deals. They will talk about health care, taxes, pensions, education, the systems that touch people. That is what they care about.

While we agree in principle with this bill, the way it has been brought in is disgraceful. The Liberals should be ashamed of themselves for bringing it in this way. They should be ashamed of bringing it in through the Senate. They should be ashamed for not allowing the time that a bill like this one needs and for simply running it through at this eleventh hour.

Basically as we look at it, we are against corruption. This is a real motherhood issue. But there are questions businesses would like to have answered.

In principle we can go along with this bill, but we certainly have a lot of questions. And we certainly tell the government that we do not like the method by which it brought in this bill.

[Corruption Of Foreign Public Officials Act, December 7th, 1998]

Madam Speaker, people in the media would tell us that if we repeat and repeat and repeat we will get the message across better. Having spoken to second reading today and having partially finished my second reading speech after question period, I now have an opportunity to speak at third reading.

I repeat that one of the biggest problems we have with this bill is the fact that it was agreed to in December 1997, it showed up here on Friday and now there is a great rush to move it through. It shows a great deal of mismanagement, of not dealing with issues that the government says are good for the country. It does not allow us the opportunity to call witnesses. It does not allow us the opportunity to look at all of the issues and to ask questions.

Will this handicap us when it comes to dealing in the international marketplace? What about those that are not part of the OECD? Where will they be when it comes to competition? There are so many questions we should ask.

We often find the government presents a rather naive view of the world. For instance, in the nuclear study we found that the government believed there would be no more wars and that we do not need to protect ourselves.

Our second reason for having problems with this bill is the fact that it came from the unelected, unaccountable Senate. No matter where we go in the world it is difficult to try to explain the Senate. We talk about democracy and democratization. One-quarter of our government officials are not elected, but simply are political hacks sent here to raise funds for the party and to help organize the party. We have a great deal of difficulty giving credibility to the material coming out of that body.

I will address the bill itself. The OECD has made a number of recommendations to Canada. The most notable comment from the OECD was clearly made when we visited with them in August. There are three basic reasons Canada is having difficulty with its economy.

We are losing our trained people. We have a low dollar. We have 8% unemployment and many other people who are not part of that unemployment figure any more. We have a pension plan that is going to fail. We have the highest taxes and so on. When we ask what is wrong and why is Canada not working very well they do not come to corruption right away but they come to three things, three really clear things.

The first is that we have too much debt. Our debt to GDP ratio is too high. No country with 79% of its GDP to debt ratio is going to do very well in the international community. Obviously they are telling the government to fix the debt problem. It took us 30 years to get into this huge debt of $600 billion but we have to find a way to get out of it. The big thing with this debt is the interest payments. When we spend close to $50 billion a year on interest payments it hurts our country. It hurts our young people. It hurts our businesses. We have to know that.

The second thing the OECD says is that taxes are too high. Taxes are why there is unemployment. Taxes are why the best trained people are being lost. Taxes are why businesses are being lost and why people will not invest in the country. They are causing the problem. Whether they are individual taxes or corporate taxes, they are destroying the country and its ability to compete in the 21st century.

Third, and probably most important of all, the country does not have a plan. This country does not know where it is going. That is because of 30 years of mismanagement by a couple of different kinds of governments.

When we get this bill about corruption, we certainly know it is important. Corruption does destroy countries. But that is not the number one problem in Canada. The problems in Canada are the huge debt, huge taxes and the lack of any kind of a plan.

Let us examine the different kinds of corruption and what corruption does to a country and its economy. There are several things we should look at. There cannot be good government if corruption is allowed to go on. Democracy will be destroyed, whether it is in a transition phase or whether it is well developed. Democracy will be destroyed when corruption is allowed to happen.

That is why many people here question democracy. Are we really a democracy when we see cabinet ministers beat the back bench into submission to vote the way of the party? Is that really democracy? We see committees that are forced to come up with the government position, even when members disagree. Is that really democracy? Deals are made and deals are changed. Is that really democracy?

We listen in question period to the government saying it is going to examine the entire APEC matter. However, the chairman is gone. They cannot look at the politicians. Is that really democracy? We should not throw too many stones when we live in a glass house.

There are lots of things that would allow us to really question the kind of government that we have. I could go back to the Somalia inquiry. What a terrible example that set for other countries. We were condemned in countries like Belgium and other European countries when they saw how we handled that inquiry. We let it go on for a year and a half, not touching any of the guys at the top. We just went after a few of the little people at the bottom. We did not support our troops. We did not support the Canadian way of life. I question again what the government is doing.

We can distort public policy. We have the examples of the Pearson airport deal and the helicopter deal. All of those things are examples of manipulation by government for political reasons, but out there in the public they raise a big question mark.

Corruption also causes the misallocation of resources. How many examples do people have out there of CIDA projects gone wrong? Just last week our minister went down to Washington for lunch. He agreed that Canadians will be one of the big guys up to the table so he wrote a cheque for $92 million to the Palestinian effort to help them build roads and complete an airport. We have already given $120 million. The only country that has given more is the U.S. Do we know where that money is going? Is it accountable? Do we know how it is going to be spent?

Tell some of the Saskatchewan farmers who are trying to haul their grain on some of those roads that in fact Palestine needs roads more than the Saskatchewan farmer does.

The misappropriation of funds that goes on is part of corruption. It is all there.

We could talk about the aboriginal issue. That is good one. We just had a forensic audit of the Stoneys.

Of course, many of our native people are saying “There is corruption within our chiefs and councils. We, the grassroots, are asking you to straighten this out, to fix it”. That is a problem in Canada. Why are we not dealing with that problem?

Again, we can live in our glass house, throw stones and talk about corruption internationally, but we should be looking at it here.

We can also look at the poor of the world. We can see how corruption affects them and hurts them. We have to keep asking these questions.

That is what we are here for, to raise these questions. Government members might not like to hear them. They would like to live in a naive world, a wonderful world, a glossy world where everything is just fine. Those rose-coloured glasses are starting to get a little foggy. I think some members opposite should start cleaning their glasses.

As far as transparency is concerned, there was a very interesting study done by the UN. It was a corruption index. They went from country to country and rated them from zero to ten. Zero was the highest level of corruption and ten was a clean bill of health where they could not find any corruption at all.

It is pretty interesting. I will refer to a few of the countries that are covered in this study.

Denmark finished first. It had a perfect score of 10. In other words, no corruption could be found in that government. Canada, interestingly enough, finished sixth, at a rate of 9.2. It was not bad, but they did find some corruption within our system.

Britain was 11th, at 8.7. The United States was 17th, at 7.5. Chile was 20th, at 6.8. Botswana was 23rd, at 6.1. Hungary was 33rd, at 5.0. Russia was 76th out of 85, at a rate of 2.4.

We can see in this corruption scale where some of these countries are and then we can take a look at what that means. Let us use a few examples. Let us talk about Russia.

Of course, Russia today is run largely by the Mafia. Obviously, by the rate of 2.4, corruption is pretty rampant. It is pretty difficult for the people even to get along. The businesses have to pay protection money in order to stay open.

If someone in Russia wants to make a deal, they have to pass money under the table. The GDP is destroyed. The only thing that makes that country an international power, if you want, is its nuclear weapons. Obviously, we need to control and stop that sort of corruption.

Let us come back to Canada again. We are not at 10. Why not? Is there any government corruption here?

If we listened to the finance minister today, we would have heard him bragging about how he has created all of these jobs, how taxes are actually good and that they really do not cost jobs. We hear all kinds of innuendoes back and forth. One minister says one thing, one says another. What are those people out there who pay taxes thinking when they get this doublespeak from their ministers?

What are the people to think? The area I am most familiar with is the foreign affairs area. What are they to think when we send an ambassador to Los Angeles to live in Beverly Hills in a $2.5 million mansion with servants? That person really has no credentials to be our ambassador there. Her only credential is that she had the biggest defeat in election history in Canada.

There she sits in her palace in Beverly Hills, paid for by the taxpayer to promote Canada. Is that corruption? Did she know too much about the Somalia inquiry? Was that a way to get her out of the country?

What about our ambassador to the United Nations, Mr. Fowler? On December 24 he received his appointment, but that was at the same time as the Somalia inquiry was going on and he just happened to have been deputy minister of DND for nine years. Why was he hustled out of town? Why does he live in a fancy place in New York with a high salary and why is he untouchable by any inquiry? Why does that happen? Is that corruption?

Mary Clancy is in Boston. Gilles Bernier is in Haiti. Roger Simmons is in Seattle. These are all appointments. Who are these people? Are they the best people to represent Canadians? No, actually they are defeated members of parliament. That is their credential for being there.