Andy Mitchell

[Supply, February 3rd, 2005]

Mr. Speaker, it was good to hear from another member from Saskatchewan. We had the discussion with his colleague before about the very difficult situation that the frost of August 20 caused for producers in Saskatchewan. As I said, I have had an opportunity to see that first-hand and it is indeed a very difficult situation.

I am glad as well that the member also brought up, as did the previous member from Saskatchewan, the importance of production insurance and how important that is as part of the business risk management program. When we talk about business risk management we are talking about the CAIS program, yes, but we are also talking about production insurance. We are also talking about the spring and fall advances, which are an important part of the process in Saskatchewan and which are also funded by the governments as well. I think that is important to note.

I made the point before in Saskatchewan and I will make it again. Some $237 million to date has gone out to producers in Saskatchewan. That is important. That is not to suggest for a moment that it is all of the solution, but it is important to note that this kind of assistance has gone forward.

I do have a question for the member. He talked about the need to act. In September, long before the House came back, we put forward the $488 million for a repositioning strategy in terms of BSE and we put in place set-aside programs for both fed and feeder cattle. As a result of that we saw a price recovery in both of those areas from the lows in July, a price recovery which is helping producers. The hon. member said that nothing was being done. Is there something with that kind of initiative that the hon. member objects to?

[Supply, February 3rd, 2005]

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the hon. member's intervention. I think it is important, as we talk about the macro issues, that she take an opportunity in the House to talk about some of it in terms of real producers.

Since taking over the ministry back in July and being in my job for seven months, I have had the opportunity on six separate occasions to travel to her province to do just what she is asking me to do, and that is to deal with individual producers. I had an opportunity, shortly after August 20, to go south of Regina to visit with producers in their fields and see the crops and devastation that the frost had wrought on them. It was heartbreaking. After a number of years of drought and other difficulties, to have in their grasp as the summer went along what would appear to have been a bumper crop grabbed away in one night of frost was devastating. It was a heart-rending thing to see.

I am glad the hon. member mentioned production insurance. It is part of business risk management. It is jointly funded by the federal-provincial government and the producers. It is an important part of business risk management. I am pleased to see the hon. member mention the importance of that.

In our discussions today in respect of CAIS, I have made a couple of points. First, we have been on an ongoing basis, working with the province and with producers, trying to put additional component parts to it and improvements in it, things like adding negative margins, increasing the cap and changing the deposit requirements. We agree that we need to do additional ones.

In addition to that, we have also made the point about the importance of understanding that there is real help flowing to producers. We have seen over 15,000 producers in Saskatchewan receive payments of some $236 million, and that is in respect to the 2003 CAIS program. That is not to say that the issues and the concerns raised by the individuals she spoke to are not important enough to put forward.

I would like to ask her the question because she has provided a number of examples about CAIS. In addition to the deposit issue which we have on the table today, are there other specific changes that she would like to see contemplated as the review of the CAIS moves forward?

[Supply, February 3rd, 2005]

Mr. Speaker, I really appreciate the comments by the hon. member. They are not directly on today's motion, but I think he brought up some very important points.

I agree very much with our, meaning the country's, needing to recognize that if we are to have a successful Canada, one that will work well, then both of its component parts, urban and rural Canada, need to be strong. Five large urban centres that are growing with increasing populations and expanding economies surrounded by weaker rural areas is not a model of this country that we want to promote or that we want to see.

I do not know if I would totally agree with the hon. member when he said that Canadians generally do not appreciate agricultural producers. They may not express that appreciation and they may not say it overtly all the time, but I believe that they do. I also recognize the importance for us to demonstrate, as the member said in his comments, the importance of that. I think deep down Canadians of all stripes see that.

The hon. member made a very good point. This is the basis of the question. He talked about input costs and trying to deal with some of those by using the tax system and other methods. Input costs are obviously part of the equation. The other side of the equation is the amount of income that comes out of the marketplace for producers.

We have been talking about disaster programs, and the CAIS program, which is there to deal with unexpected interruption of income, and it is very important and very critical that we make those investments. On the long term side of it is making sure that there is an appropriate return from the marketplace. My parliamentary secretary has spent a lot of time in that type of discussion.

The member broached that subject. I would be interested if he would come up with some ideas on how he thinks we should create that environment that would allow for a better return from the marketplace for our producers.

[Supply, February 3rd, 2005]

Mr. Speaker, the member made a couple of comments which I would like to respond to and then perhaps pose a question.

Yes, indeed, it is absolutely critical that we review CAIS. That is something that has been ongoing for a period of time. It is important that it be done. There are number of ways that we are doing that.

He talked about our intention of putting forward a committee. We are in the process of doing that. We are making very certain to have at least 50% of the industry represented there. We are trying to get representation right across the country including representation from the federal and provincial governments.

However, in addition to that and it is something that I have done as well, it speaks a little bit to what the member is talking about in terms of the large entities and the smaller producers. As I travel around the country, I make a point as much as I possibly can, to not just have meetings with big organizations, but to bring producers together in a room and have a discussion with them.

I have done that in northern Ontario. I have done that in eastern Canada. I have done that in other parts of the country and it is really critical. That has to be part of the process. I know the opposition does not like me to bring this up today, but I do need to engage the provincial governments in this type of review process and to have a discussion.

The hon. member made mention of a number of things. He talked about the deposit and that is the subject here. The deposit always remains the property of the producers. They put it on deposit and then when they have to draw down on CAIS they take the deposit back, so it is actually always the producers' money. The question is, do we tie up capital for a period of time? That is the point that is being discussed here. However, the member put forward a number of other issues like inventory evaluation and the speed at which advances go through.

I have a very specific question for the member. From his discussions with producers, would he put forward specific enhancements that he would like to see in the business risk programming?

[Supply, February 3rd, 2005]

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the hon. member making an intervention in the House today. I want to ask about one of the things that she said. Moving a little away from the specifics of the motion today, she talked about the need for an agricultural policy, a more broadly based policy.

I think it is important to point out that the agricultural policy framework does exist, and yes, it deals with business risk management, which we have been spending a good amount of time today talking about, but of course the agricultural policy deals with a far broader range of issues than business risk management. It deals with the importance of producing in an environmentally sound way and it provides producers with an opportunity to have assistance in being what they are, which is great environmental stewards of the land.

The agricultural policy framework talks about renewal and providing the tools to producers and their families in respect of that. It talks about science and the importance of Canadian agriculture being at the leading edge. The reality is that agriculture is a major portion of the Canadian economy. It represents some 8% of our gross domestic product. It is responsible for hundreds of thousands of jobs. It is responsible for wealth that is created through our ability to trade.

As the hon. member talks about a broader agricultural policy, could she enunciate on those additional things that she would like to see done?

[Supply, February 3rd, 2005]

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the hon. member's intervention and I understand his concern on this issue. I have some difficulties though with what he said.

The member was upset when I put on the record the reality, the truth, the amount of money that has been invested and made available to producers. He has said that it is not accessible. Tens of thousands of producers have been able to access CAIS to date. Many more applications are being processed.

I will not stand here and suggest to the hon. member that everything in the industry is perfect or everything about the program is perfect. Long before the motion was put in front of the House, myself along with members of the industry and our provincial colleagues had been working on that specific program. I have talked about some of the things that have been done to date in terms of covering negative margins, increasing the cap and changing the way the deposit are done. Unlike the hon. member, being flexible in terms of deadlines in being responsive to producers is a positive thing, not a negative thing. However, he is entitled to take whatever perspective he wants to on that issue.

I know he does not appear to want to deal with the reality of the situation because CAIS is a federal-provincial program. It requires both levels of government to make any changes. That is why we have been working very closely with them because it is important to do that.

I wanted to ask a specific question of the member and it goes back to the use of the CAIS to provide advances to beef producers. Many in the party opposite said that it would not work. The reality is, $115 million is in the hands of beef producers through the CAIS program, through a special advance, separate and apart from anything else that has to be done with CAIS. That is in addition to the $1.7 billion that has been invested in the industry.

Would the hon. member explain on that specific point of the CAIS program where he has the difficulties?

[Supply, February 3rd, 2005]

Mr. Speaker, I noticed the member had quite a long preamble at the beginning of her speech. She talked about a number of things. She talked about how the Conservative Party organized a special debate on BSE when this Parliament came into place. That was what the Conservatives did. What the government did was put $488 million into a repositioning strategy for the beef industry which saw the recovery in the price of feeder and fed animals that we were looking to see.

She also mentioned that the Conservative Party has asked more questions than any other party. Well, while the Conservative Party has been asking questions, the government has been making an investment of $4.8 billion in aid to producers, the highest level in Canadian history.

She said that it was the Conservative Party that put forward the motion today on the CAIS program. The reality is that we have been working on the CAIS program and have certainly worked on the deposit. We have worked in terms of changing the amount of that deposit. We will continue to work on the CAIS deposit.

We have increased the cap, the maximum amount that someone can make. We included negative margins. We had the special advance in CAIS.

The hon. member talked about the need for cash flow. The special advance that was provided to beef producers under the CAIS, which members of her party said was totally unworkable, has actually provided $115 million to beef producers, in addition to the $1.7 billion of other aid that was there.

Perhaps the member could describe to me why that $115 million advance to beef producers was an inappropriate use of the CAIS, because she has said that CAIS achieves no objectives?

[Supply, February 3rd, 2005]

Mr. Speaker, I am going to basically make the same comment and ask the same question that I had asked of the member who spoke previously. Simply because someone repeats something that is inaccurate does not make it accurate.

The member said, if I heard correctly and I will have to look at the blues to get the exact quote, that support has been declining since the current Minister of Finance came into his position.

As I have said before, although we can have a debate about the most effective way to do things and I am always interested in engaging in that debate because I want to do things in the most effective way, payments from the federal government to producers in the country are at record levels. That is a fact. To say otherwise is not accurate.

I have a question for the hon. member. I have asked it of each member of the Bloc who has risen on debate and none have answered the question. When the Canadian Dairy Commission put in place a $5 increase for milk, including $1.66 to deal with the value of cull animals as part of that price increase, did that assist producers in Quebec? It is a fairly straightforward question. It should not be that difficult to answer.

[Supply, February 3rd, 2005]

Mr. Speaker, I have one quick comment and a question.

I may not have the quote exactly right but if I understood the translation, the hon. member said, “never have producers received so little support”. I understand we may have a debate in this House about how we should provide the support, but $4.8 billion in 2003 represents record payments to producers in the country. That is a reality, that is a fact and that is something that should be clearly stated. The member should not say something that is not entirely accurate.

Second, the member also said that none of the programs were of any assistance to Quebec producers. When the Canadian Dairy Commission provided a $5.00 price increase for milk, did that not assist producers in Quebec and specifically that a portion of it, $1.66, was to help with the older animal issue?

[Supply, February 3rd, 2005]

Mr. Speaker, let me first make a comment that I suspect is on behalf of many people in the House, and that is with regard to the hon. member defining the 40 to 50 year old group as young. We are very appreciative of that point.

The member moved a little away from the CAIS issue and talked about a few other things, such as the grain producers. One of the issues that has been discussed in the farming community has been the issue of the spring and fall advances. A number of suggestions have been made about how they can be changed to be made more effective. I have been listening very closely to producers as they have made their interventions in that respect and agree with the need to make some changes.

I would be interested to know from the member, who has a tremendous amount of experience in this respect, how he would see changes in the spring and fall advances.