Andy Mitchell

[Supply, February 3rd, 2005]

Mr. Speaker, I want to compliment the member on his strict adherence to the rules of the House. I know he would have wanted to recognize the fact that his wife and his children are here in the House to observe his speech, but in wanting to stay within the rules, I would never mention that.

I want to ask the hon. member a specific question about his speech, particularly on the issue of support programming. It is in relation to a principle of producers sharing in the business risk management programs of the government. In the suggestion made by his leader there is the suggestion that it would be part of it, the one-third portion being talked about.

If deposits were to be dropped, how would the member see the principle of sharing in business risk management being adhered to, or would he think that is a necessary component?

[Supply, February 3rd, 2005]

Mr. Speaker, I have a couple of questions concerning more of what the hon. member said at the end of his speech than at the beginning.

He talked about an insurance program and mentioned that the way it would work would be that one-third would come from the federal government , one-third from the provincial government and one-third would be paid by producers. That is very germane to the debate today because the motion put forward is that the deposit be dropped. In the program he is suggesting the producers would pay for one-third of it.

Could the hon. member tell me how he would envision the producers paying one-third? Does he have any idea as to what the cost would be to producers under that particular plan in terms of what their one-third would represent?

[Supply, February 3rd, 2005]

That is exactly what he said, Madam Speaker, and we can look at the blues.

We provided $1.8 billion for BSE. The specific issue was that the Conservative Party said that if there is a special advance under CAIS, nothing will go out. On that specific issue $110 million went out. The Conservative Party said none went out, but in fact on that one specific part of the $1.8 billion, $110 million went out.

The member also talked about Johanns, the new agriculture secretary in the United States, being in front of his senate committee and somehow indicating that we should be in front of the U.S. senate committee. The reality is that we have made literally hundreds of interventions. We have been working with the Americans on a daily basis in order to get the border open and the hon. member knows that.

During his speech this morning the Leader of the Opposition talked about a specific Conservative plan about a whole farm income shared one-third, one-third, one-third. That is generally what the Leader of the Opposition said. Is it intended that such a plan replace the supply management regimes that are in Canada?

[Supply, February 3rd, 2005]

Madam Speaker, earlier in the debate we talked about trying to deal with reality and not deal with political rhetoric. I want to point out a couple of things in the member's speech. He said that my department only gave $110 million for BSE. That is absolutely wrong.

[Supply, February 3rd, 2005]

Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. member for his intervention. He always has a very succinct and passionate approach to things and I very much appreciate that. I think the member and I have the same genuine concern for individual producers. I think we have a different approach and philosophy on how to go about doing that, and fair enough.

Here is what I would say, though. The member brought this up and I agree with him: this is an issue about rural Canada and the sustainability of rural Canada. This is something that I have spent a good part of my public life and my private career before that dealing with, and that is the importance of sustaining rural Canada, the importance of understanding that this country will be successful when both its urban and rural components are strong, the importance of understanding that it is absolutely essential that we protect and promote our natural resource based industries, particularly agriculture. As the Minister of Agriculture that is my particular concern. And it is absolutely essential that we protect and promote the network of communities essential to sustaining that industry.

That is why this government has a very strong horizontal initiative among all our departments to ensure that we take the needs of rural Canada into account and that we make sure as we take on individual policies to apply a rural lens and ensure that what we do makes sense not just in the largest of cities but in the smallest of communities as well. I think the member is right in pointing out the importance of the holistic approach for rural communities in terms of that.

I have a very specific question for the hon. member. In 2003 the government provided some $4.8 billion to support Canadian producers. It is well over $3 billion in the current fiscal year and it is going forward. If I understood the member correctly, he said it is not that he wants to see changes in CAIS but he thinks it is a program that does not work at all and we should throw it out.

I will ask the member this question. We have spent $4.8 billion. We have invested it. I think that is important to do. Could the member tell us about the type of programming that he and the New Democratic Party would suggest should be put in place and the kinds of costs that he believes should surround something like that?

[Supply, February 3rd, 2005]

Madam Speaker, I have both a comment and a question.

First, in terms of a comment on the CAIS program and Quebec, in 2003 the federal-provincial contributions on CAIS will be somewhere around $142 million and that will be about $102 million for 2004. That will be the support to producers under CAIS in Quebec. That is important. In terms of the BSE programs, between the transitional program, TISP, and other BSE programs there has been some $212 million provided to Quebec.

It is important to put on the record that there is assistance going to Quebec producers.

I have a specific question for the hon. member. I know that she is very knowledgeable of the industry. Two things have happened in the last while that have an impact on some of the issues that we face. One of them has been the Canadian Dairy Commission's increase of the price of milk by $5, with a portion of that going to recognize the issues with cull cows and the decline in the value of cull cows. Does she think that is of some assistance?

The second thing that potentially will change is with the rule change, as suggested by the Americans to come into effect on March 7, that meat from older animals will be eligible for export to the United States. Does she think that will have an impact on some of the challenges producers face in Quebec?

[Supply, February 3rd, 2005]

Madam Speaker, there were a number of questions there, but let me start off by saying that I did address it in my speech. Obviously, the hon. member was not listening.

We have been working on this. I have been meeting with my provincial colleagues. We met in September on it. We met again at either the end of November or beginning of December here in Ottawa. I have talked to my provincial colleagues on a number of occasions and yes, we have been working on this particular issue. We continue to do it, including working with producers. Meetings have occurred as recently as last week.

We have been working on it. The point I was trying to make is that this is something that perhaps the opposition only discovered today, but it is something that the government has been working on for a long period of time.

There were two other questions. In terms of the WTO, the reality, unlike most other countries when Canada is engaged in its negotiations, is that the industry is with us. When we were in Geneva, there were some 40 representatives of the industry with us with a wide variety of approaches because there is not a uniform opinion among Canadian agriculture on exactly all the details of what our trade agreements could be.

I know from the hon. member's perspective he would like to have a nice, simple, one shoe fits all approach, but it does not work that way. These are complex issues that require us to bring together the industry into a consensus.

I would like to mention something that the hon. member should have pointed out. He talked about the processing of CAIS program applications, but what he failed to point out is that the government did at the request of producers extend the deadline to which these applications could be made until November 30. It gives producers as long as possible to make their applications and then the opportunity to process them. Of course, he did not want to mention that.

[Supply, February 3rd, 2005]

Madam Speaker, to elaborate upon my previous answer and to continue with my answer to the member, obviously as we go through the negotiations which are slated for this year on the WTO the point will be made.

A tremendous amount of negotiation and work needs to be done to arrive at an agreement. I have said on many occasions that when we enter an agreement, in addition to achieving success on those three major pillars, some things have to happen. In my view two of them are very critical.

One is that the agreements need to be transparent. Everybody needs to understand what it is they have agreed to and particularly that Canadian producers understand exactly, and are comfortable with, what others have agreed to. The second one, and this is critical, is that the agreement needs to be measurable. That means when we have commitments from our trading partners that we can clearly see that those commitments are being honoured and that we can measure them.

Besides achieving those objectives which I believe are critical, it is important that we have an agreement that is measurable and is transparent in terms of its implementation. That is what we will be working for as we go through this year.

[Supply, February 3rd, 2005]

Madam Speaker, I appreciate the hon. member's questions. He has been a longtime advocate in the House on agriculture issues and I respect that very much.

I think I agree with the hon. member, if I understood him correctly, that the actions being contemplated by the EU are totally unacceptable. It is about saying one thing and acting in a totally different way.

In the WTO negotiations, through the framework agreement, the EU has clearly committed itself to the elimination of export subsidies. I find it very difficult to accept that on the one hand it has signed a framework agreement for the elimination of those subsidies and then in the interim period as we are working to negotiate a final agreement, it did that. I will take every opportunity to express my belief that that is inappropriate. Certainly as we engage in the WTO discussions this year we will continue to make that point. The Minister of International Trade will make that point also at the various forums he operates in.

That is why we support the process of the WTO. The government has long said that the elimination of export subsidies, the decrease in domestic supports with those who are providing the greatest domestic support providing the largest decreases and increased market access while giving Canadians the choice of their domestic marketing regimes are principles that are in the best interests of Canadian producers.

As was mentioned by the Leader of the Opposition, we export a tremendous amount of our products. Having a rules based trading system is essential. Given a level playing field, Canadian producers can compete successfully with anybody in the world.

[Supply, February 3rd, 2005]

The hon. member has just said that he is opposed to negative margins.

We have increased the cap. We have increased the total amount that can be paid under the CAIS program. We are responsive. Their deposit has been changed since the CAIS program was brought into place and yes, there is a need to deal with that particular part of the program.

Last September a member of the opposition said that the special cash advance that we were putting in place for beef producers would never work because it was tied to the CAIS program, that producers would not see a penny and nothing would ever happen. That is what the opposition said. The reality is that today $115 million has gone in the short term to cattle producers under those special CAIS advances.

I say that to point out that when the opposition members say that something is not happening, it just is not so. The reality is different. I say that with respect because, as I have said on numerous occasions, I also believe in the importance of continually evaluating what we do and continually being willing to change beyond where we have gone.

During the debate today in the House we are going to talk a lot about various components of agriculture. I look forward to engaging in that debate because there are important broad based issues that we need to deal with. However, from my perspective there are some realities we need to accept and we need to understand.

The first one is that the government is committed to producers. It has always been committed to producers. The proof is in a number of different areas, including the type of programming that we have put in place and the types of measures that we will be putting in place as we move forward. That is a reality.

Playing political games with opposition day motions is of little value. I agree with the hon. member across the way that there is work that needs to be done. Yes, it will be important that we have these discussions in the House. As I was saying to the Leader of the Opposition when he was making his earlier interventions, if he honestly believed his rhetoric that he wants to see a minority Parliament work with all parties coming together on critical issues, then he would have followed his own advice that he was providing to the government earlier in this session, which was that parties would come together and jointly develop proposals that would be put to the House so that they could gain widespread support.

The fact is they are unwilling to do that. The fact that they are unwilling to engage in those discussions with the government indicates clearly that this is about pure unadulterated politics. They are trying to score cheap political points at a time when it is totally unwarranted.

This needs to be a time about assisting producers. This has to be a time about understanding that this is all about people. It is about the men and women who go out there every day and make significant sacrifices on behalf of all Canadians. The work that our producers do is critical for Canadians whether they live in rural Canada or urban Canada. The work our producers do is critical to people whether they live in this country or whether they live in literally dozens of countries around the globe who depend on Canada's ability to grow food and to export it around the world.

That is what is critical in this debate. That is what the government is committed to. Our record clearly demonstrates that we have been doing that in the last several years. It is what we will continue to do as we move forward working with the provinces, working with the industry, working with individual producers, and working with Canadians.