Carol Skelton

[Government Expenditures, May 8th, 2002]

Mr. Speaker, Canadians have had enough stonewalling. It is time for the government to start co-operating with investigations into corruption. Canadians want answers, not more excuses. To this end, Alfonso Gagliano must appear before investigators.

Will the Deputy Prime Minister do the right thing and bring the ambassador home right now?

[Lisa's Law, May 7th, 2002]

Madam Speaker, I commend my hon. colleague from Red Deer for all his hard work and dedication. The time, energy and care that has gone into Bill C-400, Lisa's law, is extraordinary.

This bill is not being proposed to gain political points. The bill before us today is due in part to the emotional upheaval witnessed by the hon. member. The member of parliament for Red Deer saw firsthand the terror and shock that was inflicted upon Lisa and her family. The court decision to force her children to visit their father in prison must have been devastating.

As a mother and a grandmother myself, I cannot begin to imagine the pain and suffering caused by that court decision. A mother's strongest instinct is to protect her children. To be ordered to put one's children in harm's way, to subject them to an environment that is not in their best interests would be horrific.

Children should be given every opportunity to experience a happy and carefree life. It should be the goal of adults and society at large to see that this is achieved. It is also the responsibility of government, law makers, courts and judges to help our nation's children achieve this goal. I believe that changes need to be made to ensure that others in similar situations do not suffer what Lisa and her children suffered.

Canada's corrections system affords great freedoms and privileges to its inmates. Offenders are offered access to golf courses and horseback riding. Offenders in many cases are living in cottage style housing, the club fed of prisons. In an attempt to be seen as an evolved and civilized nation, we too often afford privileges, privileges that are neither warranted nor deserved.

The rights of offenders and criminals must never be placed before the rights of the innocent. Children are the most innocent of our society and absolutely every effort must be taken to ensure their safety, security and innocence.

Bill C-400 proposes amendments to the Divorce Act that would see individuals who were convicted of sexual offences being limited in their access to their children. This is not an unreasonable suggestion. It is a common sense approach.

Sexual offences are among the vilest imaginable. Those who commit these offences and are incarcerated for them should not be able to use this country's court system to gain access to their children.

In normal cases it is usually beneficial to the children involved to have open access to both parents. The involvement of both parents in the raising of their children is a good thing. The situation we are discussing today is not usual. It is not normal and therefore should not be treated in the same way.

This bill came about due to the court's decision to force Lisa Dillman's children to visit their father in prison. Their father is a convicted sexual offender. Not only did he prey on an adult, but he also assaulted his own stepdaughter who at the time was 13 years old. Forcing two small children to visit their sex offender father in jail can in no way be viewed as beneficial.

Do we as a country really want to send more children down this same path? Actions taken by the court were based on the current Divorce Act statutes. Those statutes are exactly what Bill C-400 seeks to change.

Changes to the Divorce Act would help to protect our children. I have been discouraged by the fact that children and families are being viewed less and less as a priority within society and by this government. The changes outlined by Bill C-400 would be an excellent step in the protection of our children.

In 1990 Canada signed the United Nations convention on the rights of the child. One of the key considerations of the convention is that the best interests of the child should be of paramount consideration when addressing custody and access. In cases where a parent is convicted of sexual assault and subsequently jailed for that offence, it would not appear to be in the best interests of the child to be forced to visit that parent in prison.

Another provision of the UN convention is that children have the right to express their views freely in matters affecting them. I have concerns that too often in the adult world of the judiciary the children are not consulted. The actions taken by parents in courts have the biggest impact on the children involved. I would suspect that visiting parents in prison would not always be what children wish for. They must be consulted in such matters. An offender jailed for sexual assault should not be afforded the right to circumvent the wishes and ultimately the well-being of a child to gain access to that child. The rights, health and well-being of our children should come first. It is our children that should be of the greatest importance when examining issues such as the one before us today.

In 1997 a special joint committee was established to look at the issues of custody, access and possible changes to the current Divorce Act. The final report, entitled “For the Sake of the Children”, included recommendations from the national family law section of the Canadian Bar Association. Its suggestions for additional criteria in custody and access included: the caregiving role assumed by each person applying for custody during a child's life; any past history of family violence perpetrated by any party applying for custody or access; and the importance and benefit to the child of having an ongoing relationship with his or her parents.

I believe that these are key considerations when evaluating access requests. Is it beneficial to the child? Is an ongoing relationship with that particular parent beneficial? Is there a history of family violence?

For the protection of the innocence and stability of our children, I believe that it is important to support the bill before us today. As a society we cannot afford to put the rights of criminals ahead of the rights and safety of our children. Again I wish to commend my hon. colleague from Red Deer for his hard work and dedication on behalf of our nation's children.

[Supply, May 6th, 2002]

Madam Speaker, I thank my hon. colleague for his comments. I agree with him. I know he comes from eastern Canada. I come from western Canada and our province right now is in the driest period since the 1930s. We are going through a cold spell now. Someone said the other day that the snow did not melt, it just wore out. We are that dry.

I want to tell the member that we have 40 federal fisheries officers in the province of Saskatchewan given to us by the federal government who cause great havoc to our rural municipalities. We cannot put a culvert into a road with a dry slew on each side. There has not been water there for 30 or 40 years but there may be a little dip. If we want to put a culvert in, just in case we do get some water and the fields might flood in the spring, we cannot do it without getting a permit. It takes these guys six weeks to two months to get a permit to put a culvert in. It is totally absurd. We have rules and regulations from fisheries officers. There has never been a fish in some of those slews. It is a Liberal priority.

We have farm families who cannot put food on the table. They are well educated with university degrees. The hon. member talked about educating people. Most of the agriculturalists I know are well educated. The majority of them have university degrees. I am hearing that we must educate these people. We do not live in overalls and chew straw. The farmers drive tractors with GPS. They seed. They know how to conserve the land. We fertilize, look after the land and conserve it the best possible way but we have a major catastrophe going on. We have a drought in western Canada and the Liberal government just stands back and studies it.

[Supply, May 6th, 2002]

Madam Speaker, there seems to be a growing split between rural and urban Canada. There is a perception that government caters to the urban population. Is this a perception or has it become reality? There are several issues that point to the fact that it has indeed become reality. It is a reality that those in rural Canada could live without. The government, by its policies and legislation, continues its assault on the lives and livelihoods of those residing in rural Canada. The lives, interests and well-being of those individuals are not seen to be important. These people are being marginalized by the government.

Only a few days ago in committee a member of the government stated that a majority of Canadians live in large cities and we have to listen to their views. It is that very mentality that drives the agenda of the government. According to 2001 census results from Statistics Canada, the population total for Canada's five largest cities was 12.5 million. That would leave a population of 18.6 million, or 60%, as the total for smaller centres and rural populations.

We have seen the effects of rising populations in Canada's largest urban centres: pollution, poverty and homelessness. Rural living should be encouraged. Whether one chooses to live on a picturesque island off the coast of Newfoundland, on the western prairies or in the interior of British Columbia, rural communities offer much to the life of this nation. Instead of encouraging the sustainability of our smaller centres and rural populations, the government continues to bring forward legislation that only hinders their growth. Rural populations offer much to this nation. Many of those in our rural communities are the producers of our food, our clothing and shelter for the rest of Canadians.

In the last year alone, the attack on rural Canada has been unprecedented. Let us begin with the government's Bill C-5, the species at risk act. The bill seeks to offer absolute protection to a wide variety of animals, plants and habitats. While the official opposition supports the need for legislation to protect endangered species, we do not feel that it should be done at the expense of landowners. Co-operation is the only way that the bill will be completely effective. The government fails to realize that landowners, farmers and ranchers remain among the finest conservationists in the country. Instead of working with these people, the government chooses to form adversarial relationships. Farmers, ranchers and landowners are left without assurance of compensation. They are not included in the consultation process. They will be treated as criminals and punished as such.

Bill C-15B, the cruelty to animals legislation, is also an affront to law-abiding rural people. This legislation leaves the door wide open for frivolous lawsuits by animal rights activists. These groups have openly stated that the legislation cannot be proven effective unless it is challenged in court. This is not what we need for rural Canada.

The vast majority of farmers and ranchers are well aware of effective, humane animal practices and choose to implement those practices on their farms and ranches every day. The government is blatantly catering to lobby and special interest groups without a second thought for the massive negative implications that the legislation would have for farmers and ranchers. When the livelihoods of farmers, ranchers and landowners suffer, there is a direct impact on the surrounding communities. The economic repercussions must be taken into account when discussing legislation affecting all rural communities.

Agriculture as a whole has been ignored or minimalized by the government. In western Canada, the continuing drought is causing severe difficulties for producers. We are in need of effective safety net programs that are run efficiently and adequately funded. In western Canada the Canadian Wheat Board is also an area that demands attention. Western producers are cut off from opportunities to market their products like the rest of Canadians. They are limited by the monopoly of the Canadian Wheat Board. If the government is serious about helping producers in western Canada, then the concerns over the function and mandate of the Canadian Wheat Board for western Canadians must be addressed.

The Liberal government's inaction over subsidy issues will continue to lead to loss of profits and livelihood among rural Canadians. The American government continues its protectionist stance in the areas of agriculture and forestry, but we do not see any definite action being taken by the government on behalf of our Canadian producers. The government has called the new U.S. farm bill foul and insidious. Its repulsion for that legislation is laudable but means nothing if not backed by action. That is something we rarely see from the government. The proposal of a 70% increase in subsidies to American producers will have catastrophic effects on our Canadian market. Now is the time for action. Words alone cannot save a national industry. Words alone will not keep producers on the family farm. Words alone will not ensure a viable future for rural Canada.

In 1999 the official opposition formed Action for Struggling Agricultural Producers in response to the growing farm crisis in the country. Surveys were distributed to producers. At that time, 74% of the producers said that continuing with farming would be difficult or impossible and 79% said that the government must immediately launch an aggressive international campaign to reduce foreign subsidies.

Those results are from three years ago. Producers were well aware of the crisis facing their industry. They were aware of the need for the government to act on their behalf. They were aware that changes had to be made.

The government's own need for awareness is evident by the $21 million announced for an advertising campaign to promote soil conservation. Spending that kind of money to tell producers something they already know is a waste. Because the minister of agriculture visited Saskatchewan last year and saw a dry field of summerfallow, he decided that he would take on an advertising campaign to stress conservation to farmers on no-till. That farmer summerfallowed that field because he could not afford to chemfallow that field. Chemfallow has been carried on for years by no-till farmers in Saskatchewan. It is not something new. However, that farmer could not afford to put chemical on that field, so he summerfallowed it.

The government's lack of awareness of the problems facing rural Canada is appalling. I would urge the Liberal government to open its eyes and start fighting for rural Canadians. I would urge the Liberal government to talk to the farm families where both mother and dad are working to keep the farm alive and to pay the bankers. They do not know how they will pay their power or fuel bills or how they will feed their families, let alone pay the telephone bill. The government is great at talking about how the solutions are on the Internet, but a lot of people in Saskatchewan cannot pay their telephone bills.

I have a very good friend who lives in my riding. She lost her husband last year to cancer. She and her son were farming. They decided that they could not afford to farm any more because they were going further and further into debt. Her son is the kind of young man that we would like to see farming in Saskatchewan. The lady and her son advertised the farm this spring. It is prime land, wonderful land. When we have rain it is some of the best grain growing land in our province. They did not get one offer to buy that land. They did not get one offer to rent that land.

They had an auction sale. I phoned her and asked how her auction sale went. She said it was terrible. They bid in the combine and they bid in the tractor. They kept the air seeder. The $25,000 to $30,000 sprayer sold for $4,000. It was a disaster. That lady is now working. She has her house on the farm. We do not know what will happen to her. I would like to see the Liberal government come out and talk to some of the farm families I know and find out just how serious the drought is.

The government can spout off about the $1.5 million that was given to PFRA this year but that money and the 2002 budget was spent in January. The $1.5 million is now gone. There is no water anywhere. There is no more money for wells and dugouts, and the cattle are starving.

[Ethics Counsellor, May 1st, 2002]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister has broken his promise to Canadians. Seventy percent of Canadians think the government is corrupt.

The Prime Minister's ethics coach does not have the tools to do his job. Why will the Prime Minister not keep his promise? It is time to create an ethics counsellor who reports to parliament and not just to the Prime Minister. What is the hold up?

[Ethics Counsellor, May 1st, 2002]

Mr. Speaker, a dark cloud still hangs over the government because of its poor handling of recent ethical questions. Mixing of partisan activity and public business by the finance minister and the industry minister is wrong. Canadians need more accountability.

Will the Prime Minister create an independent ethics counsellor who reports to parliament right now?

[Agriculture, May 1st, 2002]

Mr. Speaker, the Liberal government and the agriculture minister do not understand what is happening outside their comfortable offices, limos and jets. Last week's announcement by the agriculture minister that $21 million will be spent for a soil conservation advertising campaign is insulting.

Advertising the benefits of soil conservation to people who already know about it is a waste. Farmers and ranchers are among the finest conservationists in the country and do not need the government wasting millions of dollars to tell them something they already know. While farmers and ranchers face unbelievable hardship due to weather conditions, foreign subsidies and low return on their products the government is funding awareness programs.

The minister needs some awareness. Agriculturalists need reliable safety net programs, open access to marketing, drought relief programs and help in fighting foreign subsidies. The government's lack of priorities and vision for agriculture is incomprehensible.

[An Act to amend the Criminal Code (cruelty to animals and firearms) and the Firearms Act, April 30th, 2002]

Mr. Speaker, I wish to speak to Bill C-15B or the war on agriculture as I call it.

The bill would create a war on agriculture in Canada. The government is creating another hardship for all agricultural producers who deal with livestock. Farmers and ranchers must be made aware of exactly what the government is doing and how the bill, if passed, would negatively affect their livelihood.

We heard today that bureaucrats in the federal agriculture department are questioning bureaucrats in the province of Saskatchewan as to whether there is a possibility of a drought in that province. They are asking if there is dryness on the prairies. This is the kind of vision that the government has of agriculture. Bill C-15B is just another nail in the coffin for agriculturalists across Canada. This is not fearmongering by our party. This is an attempt to show people what the bill would do to all agricultural and livestock industries.

The justice minister said the introduction of the bill would not change things, but I tend to disagree with that statement. Dairy farmers across Canada disagree with that statement. What about chicken farmers in Canada who give us free styrofoam coffee cups, napkins and everything? The bill would affect chicken farmers no matter what propaganda they are told.

The justice minister said that what was lawful before would remain lawful. I dare to differ with that statement. If the bill has no effect, then what is its purpose? The bill would not affect legitimate practices, but it would narrow the definition of what those legitimate practices are.

My husband and I raise elk, bison and deer, one of the most regulated industries in Canada. Our practice is so legislated that there is no way we could ever commit cruelty to any of our animals. Those animals are better looked after than the way some dogs and cats are treated by people in a lot of places. We baby those animals. I have bottled fed bison calves and an elk calf. That elk cow is now five years old, and still comes to the fence when I call her. When I ask Gracie to come give me a kiss, she runs to the fence, gives me a big kiss through the wire fence, and I pet her and scratch her. We look after our animals. Bill C-15B would have a huge effect on any animal based business in Canada.

Animal rights groups have said that to be proven effective this legislation would have to be challenged in court. Farm families I know cannot afford to take anyone to court because they are clutching to survive. Farm families I know do not where they will get money to put the next meal on the table. Both people of farm families I know are working off the farm all day, come home and farm at night. They cannot afford court challenges, but that is what lies ahead for our agriculture industry. Working Canadians cannot afford to fight battles against well funded activist groups.

My colleague's motion would see wilful and reckless actions as guidelines for prosecution. It would help to protect farmers, ranchers, researchers and others with legitimate animal based occupations from numerous prosecutions.

The Canadian elk industry is going through difficult times right now with the CWD outbreak in Canada. The only way that scientists can study the disease is by taking blood tests from live animals. If that were outlawed there is no way that we would ever find a control or find out how the disease is spread. We must keep scientists away from prosecution.

As in Bill C-5 the government is content to categorize all actions as criminal. There must be protection in place for those who use animals legitimately. My colleague from Lakeland said that the dairy farmers of Canada are the most conscientious of all farmers.

I appeal to the government to listen to their concerns. It should talk again with the dairy producers of Canada. They will tell the government what they are feeling. They feel this is a threat to their whole industry.

We must protect our livestock producers. The agricultural industry has been abandoned by the government. Legislation such as Bill C-15B would do additional damage to an already struggling industry. Moving animals from property offences to the criminal code leads us away from animal welfare into the land of animal rights. This is a scary proposition for many Canadians who use animals for legitimate purposes. The definition of animal in the legislation needs to be changed. The current definition is far too broad. It is too inclusive and would lead to problems for law abiding citizens.

A leisurely day of fishing could now be met with court challenges, for example, a fisherman picking on a fish. I would like to tell people in Ottawa or Edmonton that they may not go fishing on the weekend. I have seen numerous boats coming from Alberta to our northern lakes in Saskatchewan. If we were to stop them from fishing, our province would be in worse shape than it already is.

The government would like to assure Canadians that petty things like that would not happen. The legislation however would open the door for exactly this scenario. The government's blatant pandering to special interests groups is horrific.

A letter from the Animal Alliance of Canada is a perfect example. It states:

Bill C-15B, which makes changes to the animal cruelty section of the Criminal Code, recognizes for the first time that animals are not just “property”, but rather being in their own right...I can't overstate the importance of this change...It started in the last federal election. Because of a commitment by the (previous) Minister of Justice in the House of Commons to pass Bill C-15B (we) campaigned for her re-election. Under attack by hunters and gun owners and a cabal of extremist right wing groups, (she) was in a losing campaign. (We) stepped in and championed her election...(she) won by 700 votes.

Instead of championing for the stability of law abiding animal based industries and businesses the government caters to a special interest group. That is unbelievable.

My colleagues and I in no way support cruelty to animals. However we do support law abiding Canadians who are involved in animal based businesses and industries. We cannot support the bill as it stands. It seriously jeopardizes Canadians from engaging in legal, moral and ethical animal practices. The Secretary of State for Children and Youth spoke yesterday about the fur industry and how much good it did for Canadians. We must stop and look at this. The government must look at the broader picture and the repercussions the bill would have on industry, instead of its blatant pandering to lobby groups.

[Agriculture, April 29th, 2002]

Mr. Speaker, as we speak farmers across the country are preparing for another crop season. December's budget mentioned an agricultural strategy, but as we have seen this is just another all talk and no action plan on the part of the Liberal government.

The United States government is not just talking about helping farmers. It is doing something to help farmers. A new U.S. farm bill is due to be passed that would provide for the continuation of agricultural programs through to the fiscal year of 2011. It also outlines the need to strengthen safety net programs for agricultural producers.

What do Canadian producers receive? They receive nothing but interim reports and lip service.

Agriculture in Canada is a national industry. Producers are expected to compete in a global market, yet the government has abandoned them when they need it most. It is time to stop talking and start doing.

[Supply, April 23rd, 2002]

Mr. Speaker, everywhere I go throughout my riding of Saskatoon--Rosetown--Biggar people are begging for this. People are asking for it.

Community associations in my part of Saskatoon are walking the streets trying to help the young people in the evening. They are begging the government to come forward and do something to help the young people.

There are e-mails and letters on file in the office. People want the government to do something to help our police officers. We need support for our police officers. This is one way of assisting them to help and protect our children. One young life lost is one too many.