House of Commons photo

Crucial Fact

  • His favourite word was grain.

Last in Parliament November 2005, as Conservative MP for Wetaskiwin (Alberta)

Won his last election, in 2004, with 74% of the vote.

Statements in the House

Petitions March 5th, 1997

Mr. Speaker, pursuant to Standing Order 36, I have the honour to table a petition from 27 Albertans from central Alberta.

The undersigned residents of Canada allege that 38 per cent of the national highway system is substandard and that Mexico and the United States are upgrading their national highway systems. The petitioners say that it would save lives, avoid injury and lower congestion, among other things. Therefore the petitioners call on Parliament to urge the federal government to join with the provincial governments to make the national highway system upgrading possible.

Canada Labour Code March 4th, 1997

Madam Speaker, did the government whip say Motion No. 47 or 37?

Canada Labour Code March 3rd, 1997

Mr. Speaker, Group No. 10 deals with section 107 and in some ways with section 108 of the act. Section 107 is the area of the labour code that deals with ministerial intervention.

I agree with my colleague who introduced this motion that probably this is not the way to handle this. At the time the problem arose with the restructuring offer put forward by Canadian Airlines, we suggested that changes be made to section 108 of the act rather than have this piecemeal approach where the minister can intervene and order a vote.

When a restructuring proposal is put forward, we are certainly not advocating that the collective bargaining process be usurped in any way. We are saying that it was not obvious to us which way Canadian employees would vote, but it was entirely obvious to us that they should have the opportunity to do so. It was obvious that they wanted that opportunity. The rest of their colleagues had the opportunity to vote on the restructuring proposal and we felt it was at the very foundation of democracy to allow them to have the vote.

I would agree with my colleague from the Bloc that section 107 could be done away with provided that section 108 is strengthened to allow union members to vote on a restructuring proposal put forward by their employer.

I have a private member's motion on the Order Paper that would strengthen section 108 and would allow employees of any union the opportunity to vote on a restructuring offer-and I stress the word restructuring-by their employer.

We have spent quite a lot of time today discussing the grain shipping aspect of the amendments to this bill. As my colleague from Vegreville pointed out, I suppose that a lot of people have encouraged him to vote in favour of the amendment put forward by the government. At first blush one might say that it is an improvement, that it appears to guarantee getting our grain to market. It does not. We know it does not guarantee anything except that the grain in the terminals would be loaded on to the ships. That is a point that bears repeating. We want to ensure that it is perfectly clear.

As far as sections 107 and 108 are concerned, it is down to a basic democracy. No road blocks should be put in anyone's way. If employers want to put a restructuring offer to their employees, then the employees should have a right to vote on it. There should be no pressure on them from the government to vote any particular way, but at least they should have the opportunity to express their views. If they would like to turn down the restructuring offer, that is well within their right. They would have to think about the consequences either way, whether they vote in favour or not in favour of the restructuring offer.

I know my colleagues would like to speak to this and I believe I have my remarks on the record.

Canada Labour Code March 3rd, 1997

Mr. Speaker, we are talking about replacement workers and how the CIRB will be the sole determiner of whether or not replacement workers can be utilized.

This is one of those situations that I would say is neither fish nor fowl. It is not a replacement worker ban and it is not a wide open market either. It is rather putting the responsibility on to the CIRB which I am sure will be very heavily lobbied by union representatives to see any sort of action taken by the employer as being detrimental to the union.

This is a serious infringement of employers' rights. It is sort of de facto anti-replacement worker legislation and yet it is not.

On November 5, 1996 the Globe and Mail quoted Nancy Riche as saying:

I would go so far as to suggest that anybody who does work for a member union understands the representative capacity of a union.

She went on to say:

None of the bureaucrats are going to agree with me but we will have to wait and see. The new board will rule.

They will do everything they can to say that the employer has taken action that will somehow undermine the union. They will pressure the board to find in their favour.

I understand the Bloc has put a lot of pressure on the government to come up with this idea. While the Bloc would have us believe that nothing but a total replacement worker ban would be sufficient, in true level fashion it has found some way to do it in a half-hearted manner and turn it over to the CIRB which very likely does not particularly want this aspect of the bill. I should not speculate but it is very tempting to do so.

There are ultimate tools, the strike being one and the lockout being another. Then there are lesser tools that both management and labour have. One of the tools that management has is the right to continue to operate when labour services have been withdrawn.

We will hear people trying to rationalize that anti-replacement worker legislation leads to far more harmonious labour negotiations than no anti-replacement worker legislation. That does not always bear out. As a matter of fact they would be hard pressed to prove that point to me.

I refer back to the Sims task force entitled "Seeking a Balance". This is not part of the balance. This is a lopsided balance. Replacement worker legislation does not level the playing field. Anti-replacement worker legislation tips the scale on the side of labour.

If Bloc members use the model they are used to at home in the province of Quebec, they would say there must be a total, outright ban on replacement workers. That is the difference between a totally labour oriented party and one that is not totally labour oriented. Certainly labour should have rights, the right to strike, the right to withdraw services, the right to organize peacefully and so forth. The Reform Party admits that and agrees.

We must never get into a situation where labour can hold management hostage or where management can hold labour hostage. If we are truly seeking a balance we would accept the amendment the Reform has put forth today requesting that the provisions for anti-replacement worker legislation be withdrawn from the bill.

As I mentioned before, the CIRB will be charged with making a decision and will be pretty busy. It will receive a lot of representation from the labour unions that any use of management or anybody who tries to run the shop because labour has been withdrawn undermines the representational capacity of the union.

Here again, I do not want to prejudge what the board is likely to do. We saw an example in Ontario not very long ago where a similar board decided in favour of labour. A union was certified. The latest vote was 151 against certification and 43 in favour.

If that is any indication of how the CIRB would operate, it is incumbent on us to accept Reform's amendment and withdraw that section of the code.

Canada Labour Code March 3rd, 1997

moved:

Motion No. 43

That Bill C-66, in Clause 45, be amended by deleting lines 24 to 33 on page 35.

Canada Labour Code March 3rd, 1997

moved:

Motion No. 37

That Bill C-66, in Clause 42, be amended by deleting lines 35 to 46 on page 32.

Canada Labour Code March 3rd, 1997

Mr. Speaker, I am certainly getting an opportunity to speak to final offer arbitration today and it is a good thing.

I would like to begin by saying that I do not want the government to see us as being too soft an opposition. It has always been my point that we should not oppose simply to oppose. We agreed to extend the hours on a gentlemen's agreement. Members are here in the Chamber to deal with legislation. Our intention is to improve the legislation, not simply to oppose for the sake of opposition.

I would like to point out something the member for Hillsborough said in his remarks. He said he felt this was doing away with the collective bargaining process. I could not disagree with him more. As a matter of fact, every time back to work legislation is used in the House the bargaining process is usurped. It is not served well by back to work legislation and I think exactly the opposite is true of final offer selection arbitration.

Just in case there is still some misunderstanding between the member for Hillsborough and me on this point, I would not mind going over it one more time. We have advocated a final offer selection arbitration not as a tool to strengthen one bargainer's hand over another but one that can be used equally. As I pointed out the last time I spoke to this, when used to its ultimate, it is not used at all.

Both labour and management know there is no such thing as a long strike duration under these circumstances because Parliament will have pressure applied to deal with back to work legislation, which none of us cares to do. I do not think there is a member in the House who enjoys having to deal with back to work legislation. So why do we do it over and over again? Why not adopt a measure that will actually enhance the bargaining process, present the tools so that disputes can be settled by the parties rather than by others, which is always the best resolution.

I could go on and on about the good points of final offer selection arbitration. Suffice it to say we see this as something that will enhance the process. I cannot emphasize that enough.

I know the hon. member for Hillsborough has his political points to score, but he must admit at some point that this is a reasonable solution to a problem facing Canadian shippers and has a tremendous impact on the Canadian economy.

As I mentioned the last time I spoke to final offer arbitration, healthy economies and particularly primary economies create healthy job situations. With primary economies there are endless opportunities for value added. If we have problems shipping our commodities then we have problems, as my colleague from Vegreville pointed out, with production of commodities. In the case of a farmer, if he cannot sell his crop-he has to have input costs for the next year-if he cannot get the cash flow for the input costs he is really in a catch-22 situation. Not only is that farmer in a bad situation but the people who are employed as a spin-off from the agriculture are in a bad situation as well.

When that happens then ultimately the Government of Canada, which is in a rather precarious situation as far as finances are concerned and needs every penny of revenue that it can get, is also in a precarious situation because those people who are not working are certainly not paying taxes.

That is kind of a roundabout way, but it all fits together as far as resolving the work stoppages whether they are lockouts or whether

they are strikes. A work stoppage is a work stoppage and it ultimately interferes with getting the product to market. And getting the product to market is what drives our economy. It is what keeps our economy rolling, and the spin-off benefits from all these primary sectors, certainly in the value added area, are very significant.

Canada Labour Code March 3rd, 1997

moved:

Motion No. 26

That Bill C-66, in Clause 37, be amended by replacing line 6 on page 29 with the following:

"the trade union, direct that final offer selection arbitration be used as a method of"

Motion No. 31

That Bill C-66, in Clause 37, be amended by replacing line 26 on page 30 with the following:

"make an order directing the parties to adopt final offer selection arbitration as a method of resolving the issues in dispute between the parties for the purpose of ensuring the settlement of the dispute to"

Motion No. 42

That Bill C-66, in Clause 45, be amended by replacing line 10 on page 35 with the following:

"final offer selection arbitration as the method of resolving those terms,"

Canada Labour Code March 3rd, 1997

Mr. Speaker, my friend from Hochelaga-Maisonneuve asked rather rhetorically what motivated the Reform Party to present these amendments. I am happy to tell him what our motivation was.

We are in favour of any measure, within reason, that helps the farmers get grain to port, on to the ships and to market. However, why has only grain been given this priority? A lot of other commodities in Canada have to be shipped. Certainly grain is a very important commodity and it fits into another specific category which a lot of others do not. It is a food stuff, a staple which is perishable. That makes it fit into two categories.

There are coal, potash, lumber, plenty of other commodities which may or may not reach port, which may sit in the mill yard or at the mine and be held up because of a rail strike or because of other unions which may be on strike or locked out. It is a work disruption that prevents those products from getting to port and ultimately to market.

I do not have to tell the House that the Canadian economy is rather fragile and needs an infusion or transfusion. The Canadian economy has suffered hit after hit because of work stoppages which resulted in lost markets, of ships going to other ports to get similar commodities because they have been assured they will be loaded.

I do not have to tell members that if a ship is turned away from a port once or twice its owner may say: "We are tired of that sort of treatment. We are going to make permanent arrangements with another port". The port of Vancouver has lost business in the past to the port of Seattle simply because Seattle seems to be a more reliable port over a long period of time.

That is why we have introduced these amendments. We also feel that final offer selection arbitration is a good tool, although the Sims task force did not seem to agree with us. It stated that the use of final offer arbitration would create a situation where there would seem to be a winner and a loser. That is possible. However, final offer selection arbitration would also have the effect of having those parties bargain to the point where the winner would not win a lot and the loser would not lose a lot. If the parties knew it could come to that, they would probably reach an agreement before the arbitrator was ever named.

Therefore, I cannot encourage the House strongly enough to consider the use of final offer selection arbitration.

Let me read some comments from standing committee witnesses with regard to this amendment that separates grain as a commodity and does not allow the others.

Donald Downing, president of the Coal Association of Canada, had this to say: "This amendment cannot be allowed to stand as it discriminates between commodities and makes a special case for one. It suggests the Government of Canada places a priority and a special status on grain that would be impossible for us to explain to our valued coal customers in over 20 countries". I think that speaks volumes. How would the coal association explain this? "Yes, it is true that if grain arrives at port that the right to strike has been taken away from the people who load the grain, but if coal arrives at port it is just going to have to sit there and wait".

I have a couple of other quotes here that I may or may not read into the record but they are on the record of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Human Resources Development.

Section 87.4 allows for the continuation of a service in a strike/lockout situation if there is a danger to public health and safety. That is a good amendment, but I would submit that it needs to have one more caveat attached to it which is that there should be some provision for the protection of the national economy. I suppose one could say that absolutely anything could affect the national economy, but we are talking about things that have a huge effect on the national economy and a huge effect on Canada's reputation as a reliable supplier of these commodities.

My colleague from Vegreville has talked about final offer selection arbitration. I have spoken on it several times today and numerous times in the past. We will probably continue to do so in the future because it is a tool that is not discriminatory to either management or labour. It is a tool that can be used equally by either one.

It is a rather unique situation. It is a tool that, if used to its ultimate, is not used at all. Therefore it is exactly what the situation calls for. What we have now is a situation where the parties are discouraged from reaching an agreement. Maybe discouraged is a bit too strong. At least they are not encouraged to bargain something they can both live with because they know, and the employer is just as guilty as the employees, it is not really necessary to come to terms at this point. "Let's hold out and we will only be out a few days. We will be legislated back to work". We have plenty of precedents. They are only out for three or four days. Parliament legislates them all back to work.

What has happened to their right to strike there? That is taking the right to strike or the right to lockout completely out of their tool box.

I really think it is important to the Canadian economy and ultimately to jobs in this country. We all know how important jobs are. Every time we lose an international customer for whether it is coal, grain, potash or lumber we are losing jobs. We simply cannot afford that. I am sure members will agree.

In committee the member for Humber-St. Barbe-Baie Verte secured passage of an amendment that would help prevent work stoppages on the Atlantic ferry operating between North Sydney and Port aux Basques, Newfoundland. In essence it was declared an essential service. It was a great amendment, one that was certainly important to the member who introduced it and to the people of Newfoundland. For one reason or another, perhaps known only to the government, that amendment does not show up.

I would like to express my disappointment. It was a good amendment. It should have been here.

Canada Labour Code March 3rd, 1997

moved:

Motion No. 24

That Bill C-66, in Clause 37, be amended by replacing line 25 on page 27 with the following:

"of the public or the causing of severe economic hardship to the national economy."

Motion No. 25

That Bill C-66, in Clause 37, be amended by a ) replacing line 20 on page 28 with the following:

"danger to the safety or health of the public or cause severe economic hardship to the national economy, the" b ) replacing line 28 on page 28 with the following:

"or health of the public or the causing of severe economic hardship to the national economy;"

Motion No. 28

That Bill C-66, in Clause 37, be amended by replacing line 8 on page 30 with the following:

"they normally provide to ensure the uninterrupted export of commodities from point of origin to final destination and the tie-up,"

Motion No. 29

That Bill C-66, in Clause 37, be amended by replacing line 9 on page 30 with the following:

"let-go and loading of vessels and the"

Motion No. 30

That Bill C-66, in Clause 37, be amended, in the English version, by replacing line 10 on page 30, with the following:

"movement of vessels in and out of a"