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Crucial Fact

  • His favourite word was particular.

Last in Parliament November 2005, as Conservative MP for Kelowna (B.C.)

Won his last election, in 2004, with 48% of the vote.

Statements in the House

Oc Transpo April 12th, 1999

Mr. Speaker, in keeping with the tribute just read, the deaths of those five OC Transpo employees last week were senseless and heartbreaking.

Four innocent citizens of this community were killed by a lone gunman, leaving behind families, friends and co-workers who face the near impossible task of moving forward without them. To those closest to Harry Schoenmakers, Dave Lemay, Clare Davidson and Brian Guay, we offer our sincere and heartfelt support during this difficult healing process.

Pierre Lebrun, the gunman, took his own life that day and leaves behind a grieving mother. For the Lebrun family, the burden of this tragic event rests heavily and we must offer our support to them as well.

No law or social system could have predicted or prevented what took place and there are no guarantees that such an incident will not occur again.

However, we can be certain of one thing. If every day we do the right thing by the people with whom we live and work and are positive and supportive individuals then we will have done what we can to avert another tragedy such as this.

Movement Of Grain March 18th, 1999

That is the word. I was going to leave that word until later but it is true. I am happy the hon. member is so accurate in his perception. He recognizes that all this is leading to incompetent management.

There is a fourth area in which we have no leadership. A good leader anticipates problems. If there was ever an indication there would be problems that could have been anticipated, this is one. It was no secret. The hon. member for Yorkton—Melville referred to a letter. The problem was laid out in black and white. What did they do? Nothing.

That is not the only thing. Did they know that the contract was coming up with grain weighers? Of course they knew. Notice had been given a long time ago. Did they know that there could be a development and an escalation to the point where a strike could occur? Of course they knew. Did they anticipate what would happen if a strike took place? Did they anticipate what would happen if it would shut down the whole system?

The only answer we received was the one this afternoon in question period. On the eve of the emergency debate, what did the President of the Treasury Board say? He said they had the right to associate, the right to organize, and that means the right to strike. Is that handling the problem? It is anything but. Did they anticipate the problem? If they did, they certainly did not do anything about it.

Leadership is lacking on at least those four dimensions. Let us look at management. Management is the ability to apply scarce resources—and we always have scarce resources—in such a way that we get the desired results. Let us look at the way in which the government has managed its scarce resources. We have a balanced budget. Guess what?

With great pride and pompous arrogance the Minister of Finance says “We have balanced the budget. We have managed the expenditures of the government. We have controlled and done all these things and now we have a balanced budget”. Did he tell the Canadian taxpayers that they are each paying $1,300 more so the budget could be balanced? It is the increase in revenue that made the difference.

Who balanced the budget? The Canadian taxpayer balanced the budget. That is who balanced the budget. The government is spending more money today than it did before. The management here is on the part of the Canadian taxpayer who is paying more dollars into the federal treasury and somehow still is able to manage. That is where the good management is. It is not on the part of the government.

Instead of managing effectively, the government and the preceding government created at least four examples of intrusion by crown corporations. We can talk about the Business Development Bank of Canada, the Canada Post Corporation, the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation and the Canadian mint. There is a direct intervention into the marketplace, in direct competition with other businesses. The government takes money out of a successful businesses and brings it over to these businesses. This government, which has unlimited resources compared to corporations, pits its resources against them and expects them to compete successfully. It does not work too well.

This is how the government intrudes. I will never forget the day. I was a kid at the time. Our utilities bill was put in our mailbox by a high school or university student who delivered the bills on behalf of the utilities company. It was done at a very low cost to the utilities company. All of a sudden this big dictum came down that this was illegal. Canada Post must deliver those and the company would have to pay 45 cents, or 50 cents, whatever the rate was at that time in order to get those bills delivered.

It was an immediate increase in the cost to the utilities company to deliver its bills. The utilities company had to go to the utilities commission to say that it would have to increase its rates. The government had it worked out beautifully. Who paid? The consumer paid. What kind of management is this? We could get into all kinds of other examples.

The other area, which I think is the most fundamental of all of these, is good labour-management relations. A good manager has good labour-management relations. What seems to have happened here is there is labour on one side and management on the other. There seems to be this irony that surrounds these negotiations. On the one hand management says it wants to run the corporation at a profit. It wants to run the business efficiently. It wants to deliver the services and goods in a timely fashion, in an effective way and to do it smoothly and with a profit. On the other hand those on the labour side want to frustrate management in whatever way they can so that they can get the maximum out of it for them, for their way of living and things of that sort.

After they have fought they come together and say that now they have solved their problems they are going to work together. Before that they fought like crazy. How is it possible that we can have a situation where there should be co-operation and smoothness when the system we use to determine salary levels and working conditions is one of confrontation and antagonism? It is a system that is not working very well.

We have a beautiful example of it right now. It broke down. When it breaks down it hurts everybody. It hurts management. It hurts the supplier. It hurts the workers. Those workers are not going to recover what they are losing right now. It is to their own detriment that they get into these situations.

I wonder sometimes where the logic is. I want to ask a couple of questions of the Liberal backbenchers. Many people over there, and I know a number of them personally, are good business people. They have succeeded. They know what leadership is. They know what good management is. They know what good labour-management relations are.

What in the world happened? What did they do to their business sense? Did they dump it at the door when they walked in here? What did they do with the good sound leadership and the vision they had? Did they leave it somewhere? I do not understand how it is possible for these highly professional, highly skilled, well educated individuals, these highly successful business people in a number of seats across the way. Somehow that ability is not made part of the cabinet. It is not made part of the Prime Minister's leadership in this House. How can it be?

It defies anything within me that they suddenly turn off everything they know, everything they have experienced, everything they know to be wrong, to simply turn that all off and say, “Let us do whatever he says”. It is false, it is misleading and it is an insult to the Canadian people. They deserve better. We have leaders in this country. I do not believe for a minute that there is not leadership on that side of the House, but for some reason or another it is not being allowed to surface.

How can it be that a solid strong professional and a strong business person can allow himself to vote against compensating the victims of hepatitis C from tainted blood? How can that possibly be? How can it be when the logic of solid family relations is defeated by saying that it is okay to have an unequal situation with regard to those who work inside the home and those who work outside the home? How can that be? But it is.

What kind of a leader could not foresee the situation in Vancouver? I do not believe he did not foresee it. I do not believe the minister in charge of the Treasury Board did not foresee it. I do not believe the parliamentary secretary did not foresee it. They chose not to do anything. That is serious. That makes them responsible for the situation we are in. It also means they are responsible to solve it.

Is it possible to solve it? Absolutely. It can be done in a number of ways. The government can use a patchwork approach as it did before and legislate these people back to work, only to defer the problem to rise again some other day. That is not a solution. There are solutions.

Is the government going to choose the real solutions, or is it going to choose again to do something so we can go through all this rigmarole again and in the process hurt farmers, consumers, the other people who are employed, the managers, the transportation systems and the businesses involved? Does the government want to do that all again? Why? Why can we not have a Prime Minister, a cabinet and Liberal backbenchers who say that it is time to use some common sense and manage the affairs of this country in a manner that helps everybody? Why can we not do that? I am sure we can.

Instead what we have from time to time is an absolute standoff caused by the arrogance and pomposity that comes from self-imposed self-sufficiency. It is a delusion of grandeur.

It can be done. I challenge the parliamentary secretary who led his caucus on the banks so well. He did a wonderful job. He knew how to work with the people. He showed leadership. We have not seen that kind of leadership anywhere on the front bench of that side of the House. Yet he is not the leader in that party and he never will be the way things are going now because he has too much common sense.

What are we going to do? I challenge us to apply common sense, apply what we know to be true and get serious about the things that really matter to us as people.

This is no great big, heavy duty secret. It does not take a rocket scientist to figure out what the mathematical formula is. We have to simply do what is right, help people to work together and make the conditions such that they can resolve their conflict in such a way that everybody is helped, instead of confrontation and an antagonism that builds which then takes years to heal and in some instances never heals. Why can we not do that? We can. All we have to is want to.

I challenge the parliamentary secretary, the President of the Treasury Board and the Prime Minister. Do they want to solve the problem in a permanent way or do they simply want to do another piecemeal operation which will only arise again in a different fashion and on another day?

Movement Of Grain March 18th, 1999

Madam Speaker, there are two people I would like to recognize tonight before I get into my remarks. The first is the Speaker who agreed when he received the letter from the hon. member for Selkirk-Interlake that indeed there was an emergency, a crisis in Canada today. He had sense enough to recognize that this was an important issue. I congratulate him for allowing the emergency debate to take place tonight.

The other person whom I would like to recognize is the parliamentary secretary who is sitting here on behalf of the President of the Treasury Board and who is listening to the debate. I hope he listens very carefully to some of the things that have been said and that will be said in the next few minutes.

I do not have all the answers but I do have a couple of basic fundamental principles that I have found to be true wherever I go. As a businessman this gentleman knows only too well that what I will say is exactly what he has practised and what has made him a successful business person. I challenge him to apply the same criteria that made his business succeed to what the government is supposed to be doing in terms of its labour relations and in terms of the management of the economy and the finances of the country.

I will focus my remarks on two concepts. The first one is leadership. The second one is management. I propose to the Liberal government that at the present time the incidence before us that has given rise to this debate is merely a symptom of a lack of leadership in the government. It is an example. It is symptomatic of a lack of management or the application of management principles and the understanding of the operation of those principles.

I will move into those two areas to try to show clearly how the government is lacking vision. The number one characteristic of good vision a leader must have is a vision about where we are going as a nation, where we are going as a corporation, where we are going as a business, what will benefit this business, what will make it profitable, what will make us succeed as a corporation in the environment within which we have decided to set up business, what will serve our customers well, what will give us the satisfaction, and what will give us a profitable organization. For that a leader needs a goal and a vision and a clear articulation of that vision and of that goal.

Where is the vision in terms of reviewing the issue today? There is none. If there was one he would know that labour-management principles must be exercised. We should have smooth and co-operative labour-management relations. Do we have them? No.

We had a post office strike two years ago. It still has not been resolved. The Minister of Labour has extended the deadlines for the arbitrator again and again. I wonder if the hon. parliamentary secretary will go to the Minister of Labour and ask him to extend the deadline once again. March 31 is the deadline for the arbitrator. Will it be extended once more?

It is not only vision that is lacking. A leader is also a decision maker. He knows how to make decisions and does so. We have had decisions made by the Prime Minister. We have had a canoe museum built. We have had all kinds of interesting diversionary tactics to focus attention on everything except the solution of the things that we demand.

When will we come to the point where we recognize that we need to attack a problem, look at the alternatives, examine the implication of those alternatives, choose one, act and go down that road? Have we seen that? No. We are lacking on two counts: no vision and no decision making apparatus.

Let us examine how crises have been resolved? There was back to work legislation in the most recent strike at Canada Post. Has it resolved the crisis? The people are back at work, but what has the result been? It has stymied the negotiations with other unions that Canada Post is engaged with. It has brought about the situation that is existing in Vancouver right now. It is affecting all other negotiations. My hon. colleague from Calgary just indicated that it is affecting national revenue and the refunds that people are supposed to get.

These are all little crises. They are not of the proportion of the one with the grain handlers, but they show that the government is incapable of dealing effectively with its labour-management problems.

Income Tax Amendments Act, 1998 March 18th, 1999

Mr. Speaker, I really want to commend my hon. colleague for the lucid way in which he projected forward and indicated clearly on what basis the budget was really put into a balanced position.

I would like to give him the opportunity to correct the hon. member opposite who seemed to indicate that the only way revenue increased in Canada was simply because the GDP was rising, the economy was generally healthy and therefore obviously the revenues would increase.

What the hon. member earlier forgot to hear my hon. colleague say had to do with the income the individual taxpayer in Canada had to pay. It is not as a result of the GDP but simply because the tax burden of each individual taxpayer has been increased. The accumulated effect of that has been to increase the revenue and to say for sure that the balanced budget is as a result of payments by Canadian taxpayers.

Young Offenders Act March 15th, 1999

Mr. Speaker, in 1994 two high school girls attending Mount Boucherie Secondary School were so concerned about the inadequacies of the Young Offenders Act that they launched a petition asking the government to strengthen it. They will be disappointed.

The proposed legislation takes only minimal steps toward recognizing their concerns and ignores the recommendations of the minister's own justice committee.

British Columbians have additional concerns. The recent non-action by both the Minister of Justice and the Prime Minister regarding the recent Shaw decision about child pornography has incensed Canadians.

I appeal to both the Minister of Justice and the Prime Minister to change their attitudes toward justice in deference to law-abiding Canadians by making sure Canada has a justice system that protects us and our children, not a system of legal technicalities that allows judges to refuse pleas of guilty by perpetrators of crime.

National Housing Act March 11th, 1999

Mr. Speaker, I also thank my hon. colleague across the way for his question to my colleague.

I would like to go one step further. We need to recognize the differences between social housing and public housing and homelessness. The characteristics of the homelessness are rather different from other kinds of housing that need to be provided for people suffering from mental health, drug addiction or convergent addictions. Maybe there comes a point where we need to separate homelessness which has all kinds of causes that are quite different from low income, for example.

Would my colleague like to say something about what has happened in society that puts all of them into one category: the poor fellow or gal who has a convergent addiction problem with drugs, alcohol or whatever the case might be, and the person on employment insurance or with an inadequate income? Those are not the same kinds of problems. If we simply took one size fits all, one solution fits all, would that really help the situation? I wonder if the hon. member would like to comment on that point.

National Housing Act March 11th, 1999

Mr. Speaker, it is a privilege to enter into the debate on Bill C-66. The bill amends the National Housing Act and the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation Act. There a consequential amendment to another act.

I couch my remarks with regard to the bill in terms of some questions I would like to ask. Does the legislation bring the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation closer to the purpose and intent as stated in the National Housing Act? Are the proposed changes in the specific legislation consistent with efficiency in terms of administration? Are they consistent with effectiveness, in other words reaching the goal or the purpose more effectively? What are the financial costs? What are the economic costs? What about the quality of life?

These are the questions I wish to address. Within that context I would like to refer to some discussions we have had with the officials of Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation. They have indicated rather clearly that the policy of the government is the object of what Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation does. Its purpose is to implement the government's policy on housing. The details of that policy are in fact contained in the corporate plan.

I will refer to the corporate plan for 1998 to 2002, in which the mandate for CMHC is stated as follows:

Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation (CMHC) is Canada's national housing agency. Founded in 1946, CMHC's general authorities are derived from the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation Act. CMHC is a crown corporation within the meaning of part 1 of schedule 3 of the Financial Administration Act (FAA) and is subject to the various conditions and requirements set out in this legislation. CMHC's specific authorities in housing are embodied in the National Housing Act (NHA). The NHA provides CMHC with a range of authorities and tools to address the housing and related needs of Canadians. These tools can be grouped under four main headings: housing finance, assisted housing, research and information transfer, and international activities.

In early 1995, CMHC's mandate in the area of housing research and information transfer was reaffirmed by the Treasury Board of Canada. Later that year, the government determined that CMHC should be given the authority to sell products and services in support of housing exports. In the 1996 federal budget, the government announced its intention to operate the mortgage insurance fund (IMF) and the mortgage backed securities guarantee fund (MBSGF) on a more commercial basis. At that same time, the government also announced that it was prepared to offer the provinces and territories the opportunity to take over the management of the existing federal social housing resources.

Is that not an interesting way of saying we are getting out of the business? In other words, we do not want it any more and will download it to the provinces. The government did not consult with the provinces. It simply said that it would not do it any more and in fact cut their funding. I will have more to say on that later. The plan continued:

Amendments to the NHA and CMHC Act are required to implement aspects of CMHC's new mandate.

The changes to CMHC's mandate have significant implications for the way the corporation will conduct its business in the future, necessitating changes to current products, structures and processes. The mission, vision and core value statements on the following page were developed by CMHC to reflect the new mandate.

We will stop there for the moment and indicate that the legislation before us today, March 11, 1999, follows the introduction of the corporate plan which clearly indicates what the direction will be.

Where is CMHC right now? I would like to go into some details as well. They too come from the corporate plan. With regard to mortgage loan insurance it stated:

Under the mortgage loan insurance program, CMHC provides insurance against borrower default on residential mortgages in consideration of a premium. Through default insurance, borrowers with down payments as low as 5% have access to mortgage financing at terms and conditions comparable to those with much greater equity. Financial transactions and mortgage loan insurance are recorded in the Mortgage Insurance Fund (IMF).

This is very useful for many young people or people with lower incomes that have not been able to accumulate a down payment of sufficient size. They are helped tremendously. It is a boon to families and to couples that wish to by either a condominium, a townhouse or a single dwelling house. It is a wonderful program. That is what it is doing. It continued:

For 1997, mortgage insurance volumes were on track with more than 442,000 units.... Insurance-in-force was expected to reach $152 billion by the end of the year. Under the NHA, the aggregate outstanding amount of all loans for which insurance policies are issued had previously been limited to $150 billion.

It could not go beyond the $150 billion.

The Corporation received a $50 billion increase to the ceiling in the fall of 1997.

In other words it was increased to $200 billion. It is very interesting that the bill does not change that. This is an interesting development. The corporation is running the show. It is fascinating and I will say more about it as we move along.

At the end of 1996, the MIF was in a surplus position of $18.1 million. A loss before taxes of $23.8 million was forecast at mid-year 1997, compared to a $76.1 million before tax income projected in the original 1997 plan. This decline in 1997 is attributed to an increase in claim expenses. By the end of 1997, the Fund was expected to have a small surplus.

In mid-1997, Treasury Board approved a policy whereby CMHC will make annual payments to the government for its backing of the Mortgage Insurance Fund.

This is interesting. In 1996 it had a profit. In 1997 it looked like it was barely going to have a profit, but in 1997 Treasury Board said that it now had to pay it because it had access to the consolidated revenue fund.

As well, CMHC will begin to fund the additional policy reserves required by private mortgage insurance by the Office of the Superintendent of Financial Institutions (OSFI) imposed on the private sector. This applies to new commercial mortgage insurance business initiated after 1996.

What is beginning to develop with CMHC is very interesting. It is no longer simply a crown corporation. Legally it is, but it is entering into direct competition with the financial institutions. I will explain that a little later. It goes so far as to put itself under the same kind of guidelines and provisions that OSFI imposes upon other financial institutions, particularly federally registered trust companies, banks and so on. That is one area.

CMHC is also involved in mortgage backed securities.

Through the Mortgage-backed Securities (MBS) program, CMHC provides a guarantee of timely payment on securities based on qualifying pools of NHA-insured mortgages. Financial transactions for the MBS program are recorded in the Mortgage-backed Securities Guarantee Fund (MBSGF).

Projected MBS insurance for 1997 has been revised to $3.9 billion, up from the original plan of $2.1 billion and reflecting renewed interest from lenders. In 1997, the MBSGF was projected to generate $13.0 million in revenues, compared to the original plan of $10.7 million.... Higher cash flows and resulting investments of $52.7 million were also expected. The year-end surplus was expected to increase to $36.6 million.

The mortgage backed securities business expands beyond NHA mortgages or guaranteed mortgages. There is an MBS guaranteed fund but there are also other mortgage backed securities. As we go along, we will find that CMHC now wants to get into mortgage backed securities that are not NHA guaranteed mortgages. It is getting into direct competition with the private enterprise sector; a crown corporation is getting into competition.

Let us go into other areas. Canada Mortgage and Housing gets into assisted housing.

Unilaterally or in partnership with the provinces and territories, CMHC subsidizes, on behalf of the federal government, more than 656,000 units of social housing. The portfolio is operated through long-term administrative and funding arrangements between CMHC and the provinces and territories, and between CMHC and locally-based housing organizations.

The federal government announced a new On-Reserve housing policy in 1996. Throughout 1997, CMHC has been phasing in the policy. This involves the conversion of the existing NHA Section 95 non-profit Housing Program into a full-subsidy program, and First Nations' capacity development to help them take on responsibility for the housing in their communities.

To reduce overlap and streamline existing administrative arrangements in social housing, CMHC began negotiations in 1996 to transfer to the provinces and territories the management of existing federal resources, with the exception of housing programs for Aboriginal people living on-reserves. The Government of Canada will continue to honour its long-term funding commitments to social housing (currently $1.9 billion per year).

In fact it is just under $2 billion. In 1997, agreements were signed with Newfoundland, New Brunswick, Saskatchewan, Nova Scotia and the Northwest Territories to get out of social housing. This is very interesting. This theme will develop as we go along here. What is happening here is significant.

CMHC today is also involved internationally. The hon. parliamentary secretary referred to that in some detail. I want to commend the people who went on the Chile trip. I was one of the participants in that trade venture. It was a good one. It was well organized. The industries involved paid their way. There was no government subsidy at all. I commend the way in which it was conducted. Some good things are happening in that area.

The question however is whether this is a function that CMHC should be undertaking in the first place. That is a different issue altogether. What has been done in this area is very good and I compliment it. But the real question is, is this a proper function of a crown corporation?

There are other initiatives.

From time to time, CMHC is called upon to administer short-term housing initiatives linked to federal policy priorities. The 1997 Federal Budget included funding of $51.9 million for 1997 short-term initiatives linked to job creation, including $50 million for the continuation of the Residential Rehabilitation Assistance Program (RRAP), the Emergency Repair Program (ER), Home Adaptations for Seniors Independence (HASI), and the Shelter Enhancement Initiative (SEI) for victims of family violence. An additional $1.9 million was included in ongoing annual funding for the SEI. In total, assistance for an estimated 12,868 units was delivered under these initiatives in 1997.

The corporate account is another area.

CMHC is a large mortgage and loan administrator as a result of activities in support of various housing programs. Including its land holdings, CMHC's asset portfolio is currently $15 billion.

The Corporation's profits are the result of the margin on its financing operations and gains on the disposal of land. In addition, CMHC offers services to government departments and agencies on a cost-plus basis in areas such as land development, inspections and appraisals, and mortgage administration.

We begin to see the intricate web that is being woven as to the involvement and then the extrication and involvement again in all kinds of affairs. That is what it is now.

There is a history with CMHC as well. I want to address that for a couple of minutes.

Although the federal government built some housing for World War I veterans, the groundwork for a federal housing agency was not laid until 1935, with the creation of the Dominion Housing Act. By 1938 the act had helped finance almost 5,000 housing units.

During World War II the Wartime Housing Corporation built 46,000 units, mostly for war workers, and helped prepare and modernize thousands of existing units. When the war ended, more than a million Canadians in the armed forces were ready to return to peacetime life which created a housing demand the private sector could not meet. The federal government responded in 1946 by creating Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation, CMHC. That was the beginning. That is why it was created.

CMHC built thousands of housing units for veterans, but from the beginning the corporation's mandate was to improve housing for all Canadians. In 1954 the corporation began insuring mortgage loans made by private investors. The Bank Act was amended to allow Canada's chartered banks to lend money for mortgages, and the amount of mortgage funds available to consumers quickly increased.

Small surprise. There is no risk left for the lending institution if it is guaranteed by a crown corporation. Why would the financial institution not increase the amount of money available?

In the 1950s CMHC focused on improving the quality as well as the quantity of Canadian housing. The 1960s brought an emphasis on redeveloping inner cities, while new CMHC programs in the 1970s worked to maintain and improve existing communities. Since the 1980s the corporation has given priority to environmental concerns, sustainable communities and the housing needs of native peoples, the elderly and disabled.

There are other dimensions but before going into them I want to focus attention on the purpose and intent of the National Housing Act. It is very short. The housing act states very simply that it is “an act to promote the construction of new houses, the repair and modernization of existing houses, and the improvement of housing and living conditions”. That is it.

We all know that adequate shelter for all households has long been a social goal of federal, provincial and municipal governments in Canada.

Although housing is within provincial jurisdiction as a matter of property and civil rights, or matters of a merely local or private nature, since the 1937 passage of the National Housing Act, the federal government has played a major role in its provision, mainly through the federal spending power.

In 1946 the federal government established the Canadian Mortgage and Housing Corporation. Since then, CMHC has carried out the federal government's commitment to provide Canadians with equal access and opportunity to suitable, adequate and affordable shelter in safe, healthy environments. This commitment means providing assistance to the most disadvantaged of Canadians, a fundamental value that underlies Canada's social safety net. It also means encouraging self-sufficiency in the private housing market through support to financial markets and to the housing industry.

Social housing ranges from single detached family homes to townhouses, walkups and apartments. It includes rental units owned and managed by the government, non-profit units owned and operated by community and charitable organizations, co-op housing units, units provided for aboriginal peoples on and off reserve, and privately owned units subsidized by governments and rented to low income people.

Of the social housing portfolio which had CMHC assistance in 1990, over 34% was public housing, 24% was non-profit housing and close to 21% was low rental housing. The balance entailed co-op housing, 8%; rental supplements, 7%; and aboriginal housing, 6%.

I am reading from paper No. 8 by R. E. Jenness, published on March 23, 1994.

There is also a historic federal and provincial partnership here. Until the mid 1960s, government housing projects entailed relatively minor expenditures. There was a small public housing program under which capital costs and operating costs were shared on a 75/25 federal-provincial basis, and a small limited dividend program creating privately owned housing units to rent at slightly less than market rates.

As the 1970s progressed, CMHC expanded and diversified its programs. The upshot was a de-emphasis on high density public housing projects and increased reliance upon the following.

One, a non-profit and co-operative housing program, fully federally funded, that provided an ongoing subsidy to sponsoring organizations, including urban native sponsors, and added new units to the stock of social housing.

I raise these points because this is the area the federal government is getting out of.

Two, a federal-provincial rent supplement program, cost shared equally with the provinces that subsidized units in private buildings for rent geared to income clients.

Three, a residential rehabilitation assistance program, fully federally funded, that made loans, partly forgivable, to homeowners, landlords or non-profit groups to undertake repairs and alterations. The minister announced that the program was to come to an end. He recently announced there would be an infusion of money into that program again so it will continue.

Four, a rural and native housing program, mostly cost shared, 75% federal and 25% provincial, to provide new housing and renovation assistance for low income native and non-native people in rural areas.

Indeed, during the 1970s and early 1980s the federal government along with the provinces, municipalities and community groups steadily increased their collective commitment to social housing. According to the Canadian housing coalition, construction of new social housing units rose from 110,213 in 1971-75 to 185,000 in 1981-85.

In 1986 after a task force report and consultations with the provinces, new directions were taken on social housing. Changes were made with respect to program targeting, the nature of subsidy assistance, caps on special purpose housing, program planning and financial contributions from the concept of where need was accepted, and a housing needs allocation model was used to distribute federal resources among provinces under three federal main budget housing projects, non-profit, rent supplement, rural and native housing.

The lead responsibility for delivering the programs was in most cases given to the provinces. That is really the issue here. They were given the lead. Also, they are extremely capable of doing that.

I want to look at one of the most recent developments that I was very cognizant of shortly after I took over the lead critic role in this area. It has to do with co-op housing.

The government said for sure that it wanted to get out of social housing. It wanted to download it to the provinces. There are many different kinds of co-op housing but two basic ones, those that are federally operated and those that are provincial.

The federal government said the provincial ones are not its concern but the federal ones are. It wanted to download this. Then the association of federal co-op housing got a load of this and thought if this is to be downloaded, it is afraid it will lose its co-operative status. Lo and behold, enough pressure was created that the minister changed his mind. He said that federal co-op housing would stay where it is.

The philosophy co-op housing I support 100%. It provides pride of ownership. There are two kinds of co-op housing. One I really like is equity co-op housing. The individual buys a unit and begins to build up an equity they can use. They have the pride of ownership, the involvement and this is a good thing. It would be great if all social housing had some kind of pride of co-operative ownership. We all want this.

It is very interesting that as the government moved out of this the provinces recognized that if this would happen, they had better do something. They have been aware of this for quite some time.

I am not sure in Ontario where the numbers go, whether 16,000 co-op units are federal and 18,000 are provincial, but it does not matter very much. It is about a 50:50 split.

The province of Ontario has downloaded much of this to the municipalities. It is very interesting that I came across a study that I am sure members are aware of or have seen. It is the report of the mayor's homelessness action task force entitled “Taking Responsibility for Homelessness: An Action Plan for Toronto”.

I would like to read what these people are dealing with and compare it with what we talked about in terms of the CMHC. This report deals with simplifying and co-ordinating the service system. What would be simpler than to have one level of government involved instead of three?

Exactly what these people are talking about are what services are available at present, why the current approach does not work, changing the role of urgency hostels and shelters and making drop-ins and outreach more effective. We are getting rather specific but it gets more specific. They talk about specific strategies for high risk subgroups, families with children.

There has been a dramatic increase. Some of these shelters are being populated to a large degree now by families. I do not think I have time to get into some of the statistics but they are very revealing.

They mention youth, abused women, aboriginal people, immigrants and refugees and go as far as to talk about prevention strategies and how we can prevent the problem, shelter allowances, rent banks, housing help, legal assistance, anti-discriminations measures, additional strategies for social assistance recipients, individual support, discharge policies and practices and community economic development, the whole area.

What about the health component in all this?

We are talking about homeless people but we are dealing with more than simply not having a house: an overview of existing services, removing barriers to health care, mental illness and homelessness, addictions and concurrent disorders, and the whole area of supportive housing. The report goes into affordable housing and the case for public investment, lessons from our past, producing new low income housing, preserving existing affordable housing and finally implementation. There are some 110 recommendations that follow this report.

It is an excellent piece of work but I do not think it is the end. When I talked to the councillor in charge of social housing for Toronto he said they were just beginning.

We have to come to grips with this. One government can do this. As we go into this corporate plan it is interesting to note what CMHC says. In the 1998-2002 plan CMHC says it:

—plans to conduct a forum on “best practices” for addressing homelessness. This forum will bring together experts on the homeless, representatives of service providers and various levels of government to share information on homelessness and to recognize and promote best practices in the area. This will provide the basis for potential partners to work together to develop future strategies to alleviate homelessness.

How many different ways do we have to look at the same problem? One would almost think the city of Toronto was doing this in isolation. This task force received assistance from all kinds of experts. Did it get it only from Toronto? No. Let me read into the record where they went to obtain some assistance. They received assistance from Canadian cities like Calgary, Montreal, Ottawa, Vancouver and Winnipeg. They also went to American cities like Boston, New York, San Francisco and Washington.

This task force is not made up of amateurs. These are not people who do not care about policy. These are not people who are unaware of what is to be done. Now CMHC says it will conduct a forum. We have the information we need. We say it is only Ontario. It has a 50:50 split on co-op housing. It knows all about this.

I refer to what is happening in British Columbia. This task force reported in January 1999. A 1992 amendment to the municipal act required municipalities to include housing policies in their official community plan. Additional amendments have provided municipalities with a greater range of powers to address community housing needs.

In summary, municipalities have reviewed or are in the process of reviewing their OCP. Nearly all have adopted or are in the process of adopting housing policies within their plan.

Definitions of affordable housing have been or are in the process of being written in several communities. In a number of cases housing strategy documents outlining definitions, policies, procedures and specific methods to address housing issues have also been produced.

A variety of housing related techniques such as density bonusing and housing agreements is currently being utilized by municipalities to increase the diversity of the housing stock or to produce affordable housing units.

To increase residential density, many municipalities are permitting housing above shops, manufactured home parks, secondary suites and small lots for single family housing.

A definition of special needs housing has been developed or is nearing completion in many municipalities. Although the definitions vary, they speak to the importance of creating both market and non-market housing for individuals with special needs.

Municipalities are taking up the challenge and finding innovative ways to meet the need for special needs housing. Committees or task forces are dealing with special needs populations or addressing disability issues at the community level in a large number of municipalities. Reports or surveys identifying the special needs population have been produced or are underway in several areas of the province.

Municipalities are developing guidelines for adaptable housing and several are promoting this type of housing to provide access to suitable housing for individuals with special needs.

The provinces are able and competent to deal with this issue and constitutionally they have been given that responsibility. That is their job and now we have an intrusion into much of that through the National Housing Act and the central mortgage and housing act. There was a time when this was significant, in 1935. We have gone through this and we know what it is but it has changed into something quite different.

The involvement of multiple levels of government creates basic inefficiency. It creates mutual recriminations. If one level of government is not doing it, then the other level says it is your job, you go do it. As a result the very people who were intended to be helped by this act are the ones who lose. Most important in all this is the confusion, the chaos, the conflict, the confrontation and the contradiction that develops because of these different levels of government getting involved in each other's way. We do not need that. It could be simplified so easily. Then comes the worst of all, the lack of consistency in housing policy.

I suggest there is no consistent social housing policy as far as the federal government is concerned. There are immediate expedient types of solutions presented. The time has come for us to bring rationality to bear on this situation. The provinces have recognized this responsibility, have contributed to meeting that responsibility and have demonstrated they can do the job. As a federal government we need to create an environment that makes it possible for them to carry out the job they have ably demonstrated they can do.

We now know the CMHC has achieved many worthwhile things and is continuing to do that. This is not inconsistent with what the minister of housing has said. I quote directly from the statement he made on August 26, 1998 in Ottawa when he found agreement with Yukon:

Having only one level of government involved in the administration of social housing will maximize the impact of taxpayers' dollars. The territorial government will have the flexibility to meet the needs of its residents while adhering to national principles and an accountability framework.

Let us do that. This act does not come to grips with those kinds of things. It simply moves along and makes what is into law. Some of the things that are not yet approved are already happening and we just have not had the legislative provisions to do that.

I believe the CMHC has lost its way in another area. Not only has it not dealt specifically with some of the people who are in need, but listen to this strategy which comes from the corporate plan of 1998-2002. The strategy in one sentence is level the playing field for private-public competition. Interesting. The CMHC will now get into competition with the private sector.

It goes on to say:

This strategy involves behaviours consistent with the corporate value of entrepreneurship, as well as the creative and effective use of housing finance tools to achieve fair competition for the CMHC and the private sector, and otherwise support competition in housing markets. Collectively these measures will place CMHC on a more competitive footing with private competition by reducing costs through operational efficiencies, effective asset management and product improvements.

These are the key tactics:

In 1998, CMHC will fund additional policy reserves and commence payment to government, based on the capital and additional policy reserves that the office of the superintendent of financial institutions (OSFI) requires of private insurers.

That is the very point I made earlier and that is what is to be done here.

Based on current projections, total fee payments to the federal government are forecast to be $197.9 million over the 1997 to 2002 period.

CMHC plan improvements to its mortgage insurance product line. In 1998, CMHC will complete implementation of a plan for restoration of rental insurance viability through changes to existing products and the introduction of new products.

Also in 1998, CMHC will review revisions made to the First Home Loan Insurance (FHLI) program in 1997 to determine the impacts on the commercial viability of the product, and make more improvements if required.

In this whole area we have a private company that does essentially the same thing, G.E. Capital.

I mentioned earlier that CMHC was going to get into another aspect of mortgage backed securities.

To improve MBS program competitiveness, and in conjunction with improved program processes, the MBS fee structure is being reviewed to make MBS more competitive under a wider variety of interest-rate and liquidity conditions. In 1998, CMHC will introduce a new few structure for the MBS program that is more responsive to current market conditions. The Corporation will pursue CMHC-led multi-lender MBS pools in 1998. In the latter part of the planning period, CMHC plans to develop MBS pools for non-NHA mortgages and non-mortgage loans subject to legislative changes. An annual payment to the government is currently being developed.

That is exactly what this law does. It allows CMHC to get into another area of non-NHA mortgages, to put these into mortgage backed securities. There is a market that exists now. CMHC does not have to get into that mortgage backed security market. It is already there. It is simply getting into direct competition.

Here we have a crown corporation with total assets of the consolidated revenue fund of the country of Canada competing with private enterprise. I think that is wrong in principle. I do not think it is fair at all.

It goes on:

For seniors, CMHC plans to introduce a Reverse Equity Mortgage (REM) insurance product through at least one Approved Lender by 1999. The objective is to ensure REMs are available through two or more Approved Lenders by the end of the planning period. The Corporation also plans to consider MBS for REMs in 1999 or thereafter if there is evidence that Approved Lenders are unable to use their own resources to issue REMs.

What does a reverse equity mortgage mean? This is for seniors who own a house or who have very high equity in a house. They take a reverse equity mortgage, draw down more money and the interest rate goes up.

Here it is with a reverse equity mortgage insurance program, or at least that is what it is thinking of putting together.

Last night I had the opportunity to meet with a representative of the Bank of Nova Scotia. I asked this gentleman how he would insure a reverse equity mortgage. He looked at me with a blank look on his face and asked me what I was talking about. I told him that I had just read that the corporate plans for CMHC state that it is going to introduce a new product called reverse equity mortgage insurance. He said that he did not know how it would work and he did not understand how it could actually work. He went on to tell me that it was actually a very small market to begin with.

Maybe that market will grow. I am not here to debate whether one should or should not get into a reverse equity mortgage. That is another issue. However, one of the major financial institutions in Canada does not understand how this product could work. There is something fundamentally wrong in what is going on here.

We need to come to grips with a much bigger issue, which is the whole housing issue and how best it should be handled.

Federal-Provincial Fiscal Arrangements Act March 9th, 1999

Mr. Speaker, yes indeed, it is as if we want to outsocialize each other. That is not the point here. The point here is that we need to look after the needs of Canadians and we need to do it in as equitable and fair a manner as possible.

We live individual lives. I thank the hon. member for focusing this once more not on a formula, not on a constitution, not on the transfer of funds from one province to another, but rather on the needs of individual Canadians.

If there is one thing that has become abundantly clear, it is that the federal government has taken an increasing share of an individual's income, of an individual's ability to look after himself through the taxation system, which makes it impossible for him or her to do the kinds of things he or she would like to do.

When it comes to equalization payments, the very same system should apply. It should be there for the individual Canadian.

The new Canada Act was put together by individuals, by Canadians who care. It was not dreamed up by some kind of big academic involved behind closed doors in a big ivory tower and thinking something through. This came from people with real needs, people who wanted jobs, people who knew that the system was too complex and too subject to political manipulation in order to accomplish what it was intended to accomplish. That is what we are talking about when we are dealing with these two points.

Federal-Provincial Fiscal Arrangements Act March 9th, 1999

Mr. Speaker, I cannot help but correct what the member has alleged of certain members of parliament and members of the Reform Party.

A large number of us said we would not accept the MP pension plan because it was far too generous compared to what other Canadians could expect. That is an issue which many of us take to heart. I am one of those who said I would not accept that pension. When the legislation was amended we were given the opportunity to opt back in. I did not opt in and most of us did not opt in.

The hon. member should be very, very careful when she paints everybody with the same brush. Am I going to paint her with a particular brush because she is a member of the New Democratic Party? That is not fair and I will not do it. She should not do things like that. She should be corrected. She should apologize and withdraw that statement.

Federal-Provincial Fiscal Arrangements Act March 9th, 1999

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order. The hon. member just made a personal statement.